The Future for the PRO14 - Part 4 - A Global Club Championship

by Pot Hale Thu 10 Aug 2017, 11:44 am

First topic message reminder :

Following the Union Balldance of the last 12 months, another union has finally joined the party - SARU. The PRO12 league is gone with Martin Anayi's announcement of a global club championship involving conferences of teams from five unions with the potential for more to be included.

At first glance, it looks like a smart play - albeit somewhat fortuitous with SARU having to shed two teams from the Super Rugby competition. It brings together a lot more viewers that are attractive to media companies and business sponsors. Celtic Rugby Ltd still owns the competition with just its three founding shareholders - IRFU, SRU and WRU. No club or franchise owners involved. FIR failed to meet the required performance that would have made them shareholders at the beginning of July. And SARU weren't persuasive enough to get their seat at the table just yet. Rumours of a new company being set up failed to materialise. But they still signed up to a six-year agreement with £6m in funding each year.

It's not clear if this money is coming from SARU or directly from SuperSport, their broadcast partner. It is SARU who have signed the agreement to provide two teams so presumably the financial buck stops with them. It's more likely the £6m is a participation fee paid by SARU, similar to what FIR was charged when it joined in 2010. Media reports have said that the monies will be split equally amongst the 12 teams with travel and logistics costs for SA trips met centrally by Celtic Rugby Ltd since these will vary for clubs depending on whether they play one or both teams in SA.

Next on Anayi's agenda is the negotiation of a new media deal involving PPV and terrestrial TV, and online platforms. SuperSport may have already got their slice - all 20-22 home games involving Cheetahs and Kings plus some/all of the finals stages. Or perhaps not. Sky and possibly other PPV broadcasters such as Eir Sport may be willing to bid more to be the primary broadcaster for a higher profile, expanded Championship. But Anayi will want to keep a slice for terrestrial TV since they have a much better viewership reach. The current deal is for four years. Would a six-year deal be a better strategic move to guarantee increased revenues for a longer period? It would link in with the duration of the SARU agreement. And it would outlast the current participation agreement for the European Cup run by EPCR.

Further expansion is obviously the other key consideration with possibly other teams from SA, US and Europe coming on board. The danger is that Celtic Rugby goes too far and repeats the mistakes of Super Rugby. Better to build slowly to see if they will still come.

The coming season will be a fascinating one to see how the new structure and Championship beds in. Will attendances increase? Will there be more surprise results and potentially another new team to lift the cup next May?

Roll on 1 September.

Further info on PRO14 can be found here:
http://www.pro14rugby.org/2017/08/01/guinness-pro14-championship-qa/

by marty2086 Thu 07 Sep 2017, 11:37 am

Eurosport today announced it has secured the rights to show this season’s Guinness PRO14 Championship in 62 countries and territories across Europe and Discovery-owned Rugbypass and Setanta in Asia.

Now in its second season as a broadcast partner of the competition, the agreement will see Eurosport and Eurosport Player show all home games and selected away games featuring Italian teams in the Guinness PRO14, underlining its strategy to showcasing premium content exclusively live for millions of passionate sports fans.

Eurosport Italia will have exclusive rights to the competition.

The 2017-18 season kicked off last weekend (1 September) with Eurosport showing Munster’s defeat of Benetton Rugby in Cork and will continue this weekend when Benetton host Ulster. Eurosport will also broadcast Scarlets’ trip to the Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi to take on Zebre on Sunday.

Eurosport CEO Peter Hutton said: “At Eurosport, we are committed to giving our viewers the very best in premium sporting content and we are thrilled to once again be a part of the Guinness PRO14 after coming on board last season for the first time.”

“We have had a taste of this competition already and were royally entertained and we cannot wait to build on what we delivered last season by adding the option to watch games on the Eurosport Player. The expansion of the Championship into South Africa brings a truly unique dynamic to the Guinness PRO14.”

Martin Anayi, CEO of PRO14 Rugby, said: “To have Discovery Eurosport on board once again is fantastic news for our fans in Italy as well as across Europe and Asia. As a broadcast partner, we were delighted to see what Eurosport could bring to the table during the last campaign.”

“This year, Eurosport will broadcast even more games to supporters across Europe and Asia and we’re particularly excited that Guinness PRO14 games will be made available on the Eurosport Player. From a digital perspective, sports fans are incredibly savvy and they are pushing the market to deliver more and more products like the Eurosport Player and it’s great to know that fans in over 60 countries will be able to access that.”

The newly-expanded Guinness PRO14, now in its 17th season, features four Irish teams (Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Ulster), two Italian sides (Benetton and Zebre), two Scottish outfits (Edinburgh and Glasgow Warriors), four Welsh teams (Cardiff Blues, Dragons, Ospreys and Scarlets) as well as two new additions this year from South Africa (Cheetahs and Southern Kings). Eurosport broadcast the competition for the first time in 41 markets during the 2016-17 season.

Securing the rights to the Guinness PRO14 adds to an impressive portfolio of rugby content that includes all of England’s autumn Test matches for four years from 2017 in Europe (except France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands and UK and Ireland), France’s autumn Tests from 2017-2020 across Europe (except UK and Ireland and France) and European club cup competitions in 47 countries and territories in Europe.

Guinness PRO14 matches available to watch in September on Eurosport and Eurosport Player (in territories where Eurosport holds the rights):

1 September – Munster vs Benetton
2 September – Ospreys vs Zebre
9 September – Benetton vs Ulster
9 September – Zebre vs Scarlets
17 September – Cheetahs vs Zebre
22 September – Benetton vs Ospreys
23 September – Southern Kings vs Zebre
30 September – Zebre vs Ulster

Eurosport will have exclusive rights to the Guinness PRO14 competition live in Europe in: Italy, Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Georgia, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Kosovo, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Malta, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, San Marino, Spain, Sweden, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Turkey, Ukraine, Uzbekistan and Vatican State.

Eurosport via Discovery-owned Setanta Asia and Rugbypass, will have exclusive rights to the Guinness PRO14 competition live in Asia in: Bangladesh, Bhutan, Brunei, Cambodia, China, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia, Laos, Macau, Malaysia, Maldives, Mongolia, Myanmar, Nepal, Pakistan, Philippines, Singapore, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam

Read more at http://www.pro14rugby.org/2017/09/07/eurosport-expands-guinness-pro14-broadcast-partnership/#C9SfDfK6ihB43V0O.99

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:07 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Eurosport will have exclusive rights to the Guinness PRO14 competition live in Europe in: Italy, Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Georgia, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Kosovo, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Malta, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, San Marino, Spain, Sweden, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Turkey, Ukraine, Uzbekistan and Vatican State.

Eurosport via Discovery-owned Setanta Asia and Rugbypass, will have exclusive rights to the Guinness PRO14 competition live in Asia in: Bangladesh, Bhutan, Brunei, Cambodia, China, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia, Laos, Macau, Malaysia, Maldives, Mongolia, Myanmar, Nepal, Pakistan, Philippines, Singapore, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam

Read more at http://www.pro14rugby.org/2017/09/07/eurosport-expands-guinness-pro14-broadcast-partnership/#C9SfDfK6ihB43V0O.99

I've heard the Cardinals used to all gather round and support Glasgow, but this season they've switched allegiances to Edinburgh.

Apparently they're big fans of the angel

!

Sorry, terrible Scottish rugby insider joke... Whistle

by **profitius** Thu 07 Sep 2017, 1:17 pm

I think BEIN sport have the pro14 rights in France and possibly north America too.

I wonder will Eurosport make a bid for Ireland and UK rights for next season. It might work out well for fans as I think Italian rugby fans only have to pay €5 per month for Eurosport.

by marty2086 Thu 07 Sep 2017, 1:51 pm

Id put my money on eir Sports going for the UK and Ire rights, they're part of the BT Sport package too.

Eurosport in the UK are known for splashing the cash but if they are trying to re-establish themselves you never know

by RugbyFan100 Fri 08 Sep 2017, 1:26 pm

marty2086 wrote:Id put my money on eir Sports going for the UK and Ire rights, they're part of the BT Sport package too.

Eurosport in the UK are known for splashing the cash but if they are trying to re-establish themselves you never know

Eir sport? Never even heard of that channel.

Looking at it, I think you can only get that via sky satellite in the UK (edit: it might not actually be available at all in the UK). So it would be a disaster over here if the pro14 went exclusively to Eir sports. Highly unlikely to happen.

by **profitius** Fri 08 Sep 2017, 2:03 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Id put my money on eir Sports going for the UK and Ire rights, they're part of the BT Sport package too.

Eurosport in the UK are known for splashing the cash but if they are trying to re-establish themselves you never know

Eir sport? Never even heard of that channel.

Looking at it, I think you can only get that via sky satellite in the UK (edit: it might not actually be available at all in the UK). So it would be a disaster over here if the pro14 went exclusively to Eir sports. Highly unlikely to happen.

It used to be setanta sports but were bought out by Eir which is a big company in Ireland. Eir is a bit like the Irish version of BT. They wouldn't pay for something if they were not able to show it in the UK so I wouldn't be too concerned. It looks like the league will head to subscription tv at some stage though.

by marty2086 Fri 08 Sep 2017, 2:16 pm

I wasn't aware they weren't in the rest of the UK, their link up with BT though gives them a foot in the door.

by RugbyFan100 Fri 08 Sep 2017, 2:23 pm

I'm all for the league being subscription tv. But not if it's only on channels we can't get.

by marty2086 Fri 08 Sep 2017, 2:25 pm

If Eir is Ireland only that means there would be a UK deal needed too picard

by RugbyFan100 Fri 08 Sep 2017, 2:28 pm

marty2086 wrote:If Eir is Ireland only that means there would be a UK deal needed too

Indeed. So how much money are you putting on it?

Id put my money on eir Sports going for the UK and Ire rights

by marty2086 Fri 08 Sep 2017, 2:30 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:If Eir is Ireland only that means there would be a UK deal needed too

Indeed. So how much money are you putting on it?

Id put my money on eir Sports going for the UK and Ire rights

I expect them to go for both

by St John The Enforcer Sun 10 Sep 2017, 9:59 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:If Eir is Ireland only that means there would be a UK deal needed too

Indeed. So how much money are you putting on it?

Id put my money on eir Sports going for the UK and Ire rights they're part of the BT Sport package too.

I expect them to go for both

They are not part of the bt package. They have the irish rights to bt sport.

Eir can't go for uk rights as they have no channels in the uk

by Geen sport voor watjes Sun 10 Sep 2017, 11:36 pm

It's like the blind leading the blind

by Pot Hale Sun 10 Sep 2017, 11:42 pm

St John The Enforcer wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:If Eir is Ireland only that means there would be a UK deal needed too

Indeed. So how much money are you putting on it?

Id put my money on eir Sports going for the UK and Ire rights they're part of the BT Sport package too.

I expect them to go for both
They are not part of the bt package. They have the irish rights to bt sport.

Eir can't go for uk rights as they have no channels in the uk

From an Ireland perspective.

Sky

Sky have a common satellite platform to cover Ireland and U.K. They also have an open channel for sports programmes they want to put out without paying additional sub for Sky Sports, etc, in effect an FTA channel. They would have to be front runners to land the contract again. Albeit, Celtic Rugby/PRO14 will want FTA presence to continue. However, a greater number of games as primary broadcaster, and secondary rights along with FTA channels may help to increase the size and value of the bid pot significantly.

Eir
Eir Sport is on the Sky platform in Ireland (ROI/NI) as well as on the Eir broadband/TV/phone/mobile (quadplay) service and on Vodafone TV. It also broadcasts in Asia, Russia and Baltic States.
For a PRO14 bid, their TV licence territory is currently Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. So they need a partner to link into GB TV regions. Eir outbid all others for the NZ v Ireland Chicago match. They won rights for last month's Rugby Women's World Cup. They have also bid successfully for the Irish RWC 2019 rights. They will most likely bid for PRO14 rights in Ireland and possibly U.K. (With partner). Could they partner with BT? Possibly.

BT Sport
BT could bid for the rights but don't have a strong presence in ROI - they currently appear on Eir platform and Sky platform as a PPV.

TV3
Indy Irish station, TV3, initially bought by Virgin Media (another quadplay provider in both U.K. and Ireland markets) has TV region access for both territories through Virgin in U.K. In turn, Virgin Media are owned by Liberty Global, an av content supplier. Liberty also own a stake in the independent TV network ITV, which has regional stations in NI. TV3 won FTA rights to RWC 2015, and then beat RTE to take Six Nations rights from this season for 5 years.

Other terrestrials
TG4 may bid for FTA rights in ROI but don't have a large wallet as a niche Irish language station.

National public broadcaster, RTE Television (equivalent to BBC) having lost the Six Nations Irish rights may have the budget to bid for the FTA and some online rights to Irish diaspora but they tend to stay away from battles with Sky.

BBC has strong hold in NI, Scotland, and most particularly in Wales. They have been the longest and most loyal FTA broadcaster and should be in the mix again.

Think that covers most of the options.

by marty2086 Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:12 am

St John The Enforcer wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:If Eir is Ireland only that means there would be a UK deal needed too

Indeed. So how much money are you putting on it?

Id put my money on eir Sports going for the UK and Ire rights they're part of the BT Sport package too.

I expect them to go for both
They are not part of the bt package. They have the irish rights to bt sport.

Eir can't go for uk rights as they have no channels in the uk

Neither did BT until they did

by St John The Enforcer Mon 11 Sep 2017, 12:54 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
EirThey will most likely bid for PRO14 rights in Ireland and possibly U.K. (With partner). Could they partner with BT? Possibly.

marty2086 wrote:
St John The Enforcer wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:If Eir is Ireland only that means there would be a UK deal needed too

Indeed. So how much money are you putting on it?

Id put my money on eir Sports going for the UK and Ire rights they're part of the BT Sport package too.

I expect them to go for both
They are not part of the bt package. They have the irish rights to bt sport.

Eir can't go for uk rights as they have no channels in the uk

Neither did BT until they did

No. But they were a British company with most of their business in Britain.

Both companies have a lot in common. Both were originally "Post and Telegraph" in their respective countries until the 80s. Both were privatised and sold. Both bought or launched a sports TV service to help drive broadband sales.

I can't see Eir going for UK rights. Have they any other business in Britain? Why the hell would BT Sports go into pro 14 rights as a "partner" of Eir? If they were interested they could just bid for UK rights themselves.

by marty2086 Mon 11 Sep 2017, 1:25 pm

BT could do the same thing they do with ESPN

by RugbyFan100 Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:01 pm

marty2086 wrote:BT could do the same thing they do with ESPN

ESPN(UK) doesn't have any rights to sport that is not eligible for the UK market. It's a tailor made channel for the UK market.

If Eir sport can do this then good luck to them but I'd guess that it's a massive headache to do given Eir sport appears to show all types of premier league football and other programmes that are not legally allowed to be shown in the UK.

by marty2086 Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:07 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:BT could do the same thing they do with ESPN

ESPN(UK) doesn't have any rights to sport that is not eligible for the UK market. It's a tailor made channel for the UK market.

If Eir sport can do this then good luck to them but I'd guess that it's a massive headache to do given Eir sport appears to show all types of premier league football and other programmes that are not legally allowed to be shown in the UK.

Sky Sports show Premier League football at 3pm on a Saturday in Ireland

by RugbyFan100 Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:09 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:BT could do the same thing they do with ESPN

ESPN(UK) doesn't have any rights to sport that is not eligible for the UK market. It's a tailor made channel for the UK market.

If Eir sport can do this then good luck to them but I'd guess that it's a massive headache to do given Eir sport appears to show all types of premier league football and other programmes that are not legally allowed to be shown in the UK.

Sky Sports show Premier League football at 3pm on a Saturday in Ireland

Absolutely no clue why that is relevant. But thanks.

by marty2086 Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:11 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:BT could do the same thing they do with ESPN

ESPN(UK) doesn't have any rights to sport that is not eligible for the UK market. It's a tailor made channel for the UK market.

If Eir sport can do this then good luck to them but I'd guess that it's a massive headache to do given Eir sport appears to show all types of premier league football and other programmes that are not legally allowed to be shown in the UK.

Sky Sports show Premier League football at 3pm on a Saturday in Ireland

Absolutely no clue why that is relevant. But thanks.

Because the packages in the UK and Ireland for Sky are identical and show something in Ireland they can't in the UK, why should it be different for Eir?

by RugbyFan100 Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:19 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Because the packages in the UK and Ireland for Sky are identical and show something in Ireland they can't in the UK, why should it be different for Eir?

Because Eir don't have the ££ that sky do to enable it to happen. I'd never even heard of Eir before this thread. As I said, if they do, good on them - but ESPN, BT and Sky are huge, established corporations with huge established infrastructure.

At the moment you can't even get it in the UK. If the Pro14 is to be broadcast on Eir for a monthly fee - what do you think someone who is already paying £35 a month for sky sports (through SKYTV) is going to say to that?

by marty2086 Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:21 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Because the packages in the UK and Ireland for Sky are identical and show something in Ireland they can't in the UK, why should it be different for Eir?

Because Eir don't have the ££ that sky do to enable it to happen. I'd never even heard of Eir before this thread. As I said, if they do, good on them - but ESPN, BT and Sky are huge, established corporations with huge established infrastructure.

At the moment you can't even get it in the UK. If the Pro14 is to be broadcast on Eir for a monthly fee - what do you think someone who is already paying £35 a month for sky sports (through SKYTV) is going to say to that?

The same thing they say to BT?

by RugbyFan100 Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:22 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Because the packages in the UK and Ireland for Sky are identical and show something in Ireland they can't in the UK, why should it be different for Eir?

Because Eir don't have the ££ that sky do to enable it to happen. I'd never even heard of Eir before this thread. As I said, if they do, good on them - but ESPN, BT and Sky are huge, established corporations with huge established infrastructure.

At the moment you can't even get it in the UK. If the Pro14 is to be broadcast on Eir for a monthly fee - what do you think someone who is already paying £35 a month for sky sports (through SKYTV) is going to say to that?

The same thing they say to BT?

The difference being, BT Sport's content profile is a little larger than Eir sport's.

by marty2086 Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:26 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Because the packages in the UK and Ireland for Sky are identical and show something in Ireland they can't in the UK, why should it be different for Eir?

Because Eir don't have the ££ that sky do to enable it to happen. I'd never even heard of Eir before this thread. As I said, if they do, good on them - but ESPN, BT and Sky are huge, established corporations with huge established infrastructure.

At the moment you can't even get it in the UK. If the Pro14 is to be broadcast on Eir for a monthly fee - what do you think someone who is already paying £35 a month for sky sports (through SKYTV) is going to say to that?

The same thing they say to BT?

The difference being, BT Sport's content profile is a little larger than Eir sport's.

Except if they are part of BTs package just like ESPN, BoxNation and others are

by RugbyFan100 Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:28 pm

Then we're back to St John the Enforcer's point:

Have they any other business in Britain? Why the hell would BT Sports go into pro 14 rights as a "partner" of Eir? If they were interested they could just bid for UK rights themselves.

by marty2086 Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:33 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Then we're back to St John the Enforcer's point:

Have they any other business in Britain? Why the hell would BT Sports go into pro 14 rights as a "partner" of Eir? If they were interested they could just bid for UK rights themselves.

Except they don't have too, why pay for something you don't have too?

If Eir bid and join the package BT then they add value to their package and Eir get a bigger platform to generate higher revenues

by **profitius** Mon 11 Sep 2017, 2:35 pm

Pot Hale wrote:[
Sky have a common satellite platform to cover Ireland and U.K. They also have an open channel for sports programmes they want to put out without paying additional sub for Sky Sports, etc, in effect an FTA channel. They would have to be front runners to land the contract again. Albeit, Celtic Rugby/PRO14 will want FTA presence to continue. However, a greater number of games as primary broadcaster, and secondary rights along with FTA channels may help to increase the size and value of the bid pot significantly.

Eir
Eir Sport is on the Sky platform in Ireland (ROI/NI) as well as on the Eir broadband/TV/phone/mobile (quadplay) service and on Vodafone TV. It also broadcasts in Asia, Russia and Baltic States.
For a PRO14 bid, their TV licence territory is currently Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. So they need a partner to link into GB TV regions. Eir outbid all others for the NZ v Ireland Chicago match. They won rights for last month's Rugby Women's World Cup. They have also bid successfully for the Irish RWC 2019 rights. They will most likely bid for PRO14 rights in Ireland and possibly U.K. (With partner). Could they partner with BT? Possibly.

BT Sport
BT could bid for the rights but don't have a strong presence in ROI - they currently appear on Eir platform and Sky platform as a PPV.

TV3
Indy Irish station, TV3, initially bought by Virgin Media (another quadplay provider in both U.K. and Ireland markets) has TV region access for both territories through Virgin in U.K. In turn, Virgin Media are owned by Liberty Global, an av content supplier. Liberty also own a stake in the independent TV network ITV, which has regional stations in NI. TV3 won FTA rights to RWC 2015, and then beat RTE to take Six Nations rights from this season for 5 years.

Other terrestrials
TG4 may bid for FTA rights in ROI but don't have a large wallet as a niche Irish language station.

National public broadcaster, RTE Television (equivalent to BBC) having lost the Six Nations Irish rights may have the budget to bid for the FTA and some online rights to Irish diaspora but they tend to stay away from battles with Sky.

BBC has strong hold in NI, Scotland, and most particularly in Wales. They have been the longest and most loyal FTA broadcaster and should be in the mix again.

Think that covers most of the options.

Theres also Eurosport. They are already partners with the pro14, showing games in Italy, Europe and Asia. They might be a longer shot but I read last year they want to show more rugby.

by Kingshu Tue 12 Sep 2017, 12:45 pm

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/guinness-pro14-chief-announces-american-13606573.amp

Guinness PRO14 chief announces American team WILL join the competition

by mikey_dragon Tue 12 Sep 2017, 1:02 pm

Going forward perhaps we should have conferences of an upper and lower tier, with all teams in the upper being permitted entry to the RCC. We should probably wait for Sharks to join first though Very Happy

.

by Pot Hale Tue 12 Sep 2017, 9:20 pm

From the English Times today:

Martin Anayi oversaw the expansion of the Pro14 this summer, with the inclusion of two franchises from South Africa, and he plans on turning the cross-hemisphere club tournament into a transatlantic competition.

The Aviva Premiership is building a presence in the US, having struck a broadcast deal with NBC, the American network, while Newcastle Falcons will play Saracens in Philadelphia on Saturday night.

Anayi said that plans are close for the Pro14 to establish a permanent foothold in the US with the introduction of a team based on the east coast, plus another in Germany. “We are thinking about what is next,” Anayi said. “The two teams in South Africa can change our game and change our tournament and if we get that right we shouldn’t stop there. We would be looking to expand again at some stage.

“We have got to do things differently. [When it comes to] taking games to America, we have to be innovative. The English have got a great thing going in Philadelphia and it will go really well.

“How do we play to our strengths as Celtic nations but also nations with huge diaspora, Italian and South African, around the world? What are the key markets to become global [as a competition]? We have had more than expressions of interest [in the US], we have had real solid business cases that would make it work on the east coast, so it is a question of when, not if.”

by VinceWLB Tue 12 Sep 2017, 9:51 pm

Why not let the Pro 14 as it is to prove itself?

What Germany has done to warrant a place ahead of Georgia or Romania? What good would it bring to the league to see that German team losing by 50 points to Treviso?

On top of that there would be a different time zone with the US..

by Cyril Tue 12 Sep 2017, 11:08 pm

Why would you want an increase in thrashings in the Pro-(whatever number)? It's not helpful to anyone.

These SA sides look rubbish and no better than the Italians (who are getting worse and worse).

It's not going to help the better (Munster, Leinster, erm, ok them) sides in the big Euro comp when it comes to the business end.

Sure, grow rugby, but don't hamper the few sides that could, maybe challenge at the top end of European rugby,

by Exiledinborders Tue 12 Sep 2017, 11:32 pm

Pot Hale wrote:From the English Times today:

Martin Anayi oversaw the expansion of the Pro14 this summer, with the inclusion of two franchises from South Africa, and he plans on turning the cross-hemisphere club tournament into a transatlantic competition.

The Aviva Premiership is building a presence in the US, having struck a broadcast deal with NBC, the American network, while Newcastle Falcons will play Saracens in Philadelphia on Saturday night.

Anayi said that plans are close for the Pro14 to establish a permanent foothold in the US with the introduction of a team based on the east coast, plus another in Germany. “We are thinking about what is next,” Anayi said. “The two teams in South Africa can change our game and change our tournament and if we get that right we shouldn’t stop there. We would be looking to expand again at some stage.

“We have got to do things differently. [When it comes to] taking games to America, we have to be innovative. The English have got a great thing going in Philadelphia and it will go really well.

“How do we play to our strengths as Celtic nations but also nations with huge diaspora, Italian and South African, around the world? What are the key markets to become global [as a competition]? We have had more than expressions of interest [in the US], we have had real solid business cases that would make it work on the east coast, so it is a question of when, not if.”

With regard to the trip to America I think Edward Griffiths got it about right when he said:

Rugby in America to me looks like a collection of individuals and companies looking to make a quick buck out of what they perceive as a growing game. No one is actually prepared to do the hard yards and build the structure of the game. It’s all very fragmented and short term. Until that changes, I can’t see it being much of a developing market.

Premiership Rugby would have to answer whether these fixtures are having any impact on rugby in America. Personally I would doubt it. With these games you’re planting a seed. If you plant a seed in the desert it’s not going to do very much.

To me talk of Pro14(16?) teams in the USA and Germany also seem to lack a strategic approach. The danger is that the ProXX ends up as a rag tag collection of disparate teams ranging from Irish provinces with long histories and established support, through failed SA teams, to American chancers willing to risk a few million for a year or so who will walk away if it does not quickly make a return. It smacks of desperation

by **Rugby Fan** Wed 13 Sep 2017, 1:36 am

When professional rugby has added teams to a competition, it has generally worked on the assumption that the incoming teams have their act together, and will live up to the responsibilities of being included.

By and large, this has not been the case. Even a country with as much money as Japan has fumbled putting its Super Rugby franchise together. Perhaps we need longer time frames to measure success but it's hard to argue that any of the sides added to Super Rugby since its inception have boosted the quality of the competition.

Meanwhile, Italian sides in the Pro12/14 struggle, and the national team barely gets a pass mark in the Six Nations. Argentina aren't completely out of their depth in the Rugby Championship, but not as competitive as World Cup 3rd place 10 years ago promised. The Jaguares are oddly impotent.

If the Pro 14 adds a US team on the assumption the American side will be competently managed and adequately resourced, then there's a good chance of a rude surprise.

by Pot Hale Wed 13 Sep 2017, 2:07 am

The initial commentary about the PRO12 approach to the US market was that the unions would provide coaching and development support if I recall correctly. I don't know if that's still the case. However, USA arugny still has to sort out its contractual/legal problems with Schoninger so it may not happen for another couple of seasons. Unless there's some serious financial incentive and/or market access opportunity that can't be ignored. But I doubt it.

by marty2086 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 8:56 am

VinceWLB wrote:Why not let the Pro 14 as it is to prove itself?

What Germany has done to warrant a place ahead of Georgia or Romania? What good would it bring to the league to see that German team losing by 50 points to Treviso?

On top of that there would be a different time zone with the US..

Prove itself as what?

Pro14 are being told they are falling behind so have to look to grow and generate more revenue

Germany has one of the worlds strongest economies that's why its ahead of Georgia and Romania but you assume that a German team would lose by 50 points rather than asking how they would approach it

by **Biltong** Wed 13 Sep 2017, 9:06 am

Cyril wrote:Why would you want an increase in thrashings in the Pro-(whatever number)? It's not helpful to anyone.

These SA sides look rubbish and no better than the Italians (who are getting worse and worse).

It's not going to help the better (Munster, Leinster, erm, ok them) sides in the big Euro comp when it comes to the business end.

Sure, grow rugby, but don't hamper the few sides that could, maybe challenge at the top end of European rugby,

The difference is the SA sides won't remain "rubbish"

by marty2086 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 9:14 am

Biltong wrote:
Cyril wrote:Why would you want an increase in thrashings in the Pro-(whatever number)? It's not helpful to anyone.

These SA sides look rubbish and no better than the Italians (who are getting worse and worse).

It's not going to help the better (Munster, Leinster, erm, ok them) sides in the big Euro comp when it comes to the business end.

Sure, grow rugby, but don't hamper the few sides that could, maybe challenge at the top end of European rugby,

The difference is the SA sides won't remain "rubbish"

Having seen the Cheetahs up close against Ulster they were far from rubbish, a couple of injuries in key positions and some silly yellows cost them but I think they'll push Leinster next especially if they do well against Zebre this week

by mikey_dragon Wed 13 Sep 2017, 9:18 am

Biltong wrote:
Cyril wrote:Why would you want an increase in thrashings in the Pro-(whatever number)? It's not helpful to anyone.

These SA sides look rubbish and no better than the Italians (who are getting worse and worse).

It's not going to help the better (Munster, Leinster, erm, ok them) sides in the big Euro comp when it comes to the business end.

Sure, grow rugby, but don't hamper the few sides that could, maybe challenge at the top end of European rugby,

The difference is the SA sides won't remain "rubbish"

And they're certainly better than the Italians from what I've seen. If Sharks or Lions are in the competition next year we can all look out.

by RugbyFan100 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 9:24 am

Even if a German team and a team in Washington DC bring in an extra £xxm between them next season - is that really what the pro14 is about? A desperate search for money at the expense of a strong league?

I'm all for adding tv income - that's where the game is at the moment. But what good is it if half the games are one sided thrashings every week? This looks like an absolutely desperate move by the league.

by LordDowlais Wed 13 Sep 2017, 9:29 am

Unless the Americans are going to pay extortionate money, or pay for the costs of travel and accommodation and the what not, there will be not point them being there.

by marty2086 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 9:34 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:Even if a German team and a team in Washington DC bring in an extra £xxm between them next season - is that really what the pro14 is about? A desperate search for money at the expense of a strong league?

I'm all for adding tv income - that's where the game is at the moment. But what good is it if half the games are one sided thrashings every week? This looks like an absolutely desperate move by the league.

The league has to keep up with England and France, unless they strike oil in the valleys or in Dingle bay it's unlikely there will huge investment under the current structure.

Why are you assuming there will be thrashings without even knowing which players or coaches will be involved?

The SA teams were rushed in because of circumstance but with the right planning there's no reason an American team cant be made up of the American squad supplemented with players from across the world or a German based team made up with top players from across Europe representing the best of the rest

LordDowlais wrote:Unless the Americans are going to pay extortionate money, or pay for the costs of travel and accommodation and the what not, there will be not point them being there.

Theres no point having a presence in maybe the biggest consumer market in the world, home to some of the worlds biggest brands?

by LordDowlais Wed 13 Sep 2017, 9:56 am

marty2086 wrote:Theres no point having a presence in maybe the biggest consumer market in the world, home to some of the worlds biggest brands?

They need to justify being there. How much does a flight to the USA cost these days ? Then times that by 30+. Then there is the cost of accommodation and travel whilst out there for all the players coaches physios.

The regions are barely getting by as it is, never mind the costs of going to the USA for a few fixtures of rugby.

Unless they do the same type of deal as the South Africans are doing, then it is a non starter.

by RugbyFan100 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 9:56 am

marty2086 wrote:

The league has to keep up with England and France, unless they strike oil in the valleys or in Dingle bay it's unlikely there will huge investment under the current structure.

Why are you assuming there will be thrashings without even knowing which players or coaches will be involved?

Why are you assuming that there won't be? What evidence have you got for these sides being anything other than the best players in north america being in the pro16 side from north america?

If you have some inside knowledge on Washington DC being the new Clermont, do share. Thanks.

by RugbyFan100 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 9:58 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Theres no point having a presence in maybe the biggest consumer market in the world, home to some of the worlds biggest brands?

They need to justify being there. How much does a flight to the USA cost these days ? Then times that by 30+. Then there is the cost of accommodation and travel whilst out there for all the players coaches physios.

The regions are barely getting by as it is, never mind the costs of going to the USA for a few fixtures of rugby.

Unless they do the same type of deal as the South Africans are doing, then it is a non starter.

How much does it cost to get to an away game in South Africa or USA now for pro14 teams? Quite incredible that this has come about. Barely any away fans in 90% of fixtures. It's just sad.

by LordDowlais Wed 13 Sep 2017, 10:00 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:Why are you assuming that there won't be? What evidence have you got for these sides being anything other than the best players in north america being in the pro16 side from north america?

Even the best sides in the USA will get their rear ends handed to them, all the Steve Hansens and Eddie Jones's in the world would not change that. Unless they bought the entire All Blacks squad.

by LordDowlais Wed 13 Sep 2017, 10:03 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:How much does it cost to get to an away game in South Africa or USA now for pro14 teams? Quite incredible that this has come about. Barely any away fans in 90% of fixtures. It's just sad.

I'm sure that the South African union is paying for the travel to South Africa for the Pro14 sides. I don't know about accommodation and travel whilst their out there though. Any team playing in the USA would have to have the same sort of agreement before we even contemplate it in my book.

by marty2086 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 10:04 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

The league has to keep up with England and France, unless they strike oil in the valleys or in Dingle bay it's unlikely there will huge investment under the current structure.

Why are you assuming there will be thrashings without even knowing which players or coaches will be involved?

Why are you assuming that there won't be? What evidence have you got for these sides being anything other than the best players in north america being in the pro16 side from north america?

If you have some inside knowledge on Washington DC being the new Clermont, do share. Thanks.

I holding judgement until there's something actually in place, until squads and coaches and the whole blueprint is unveiled

You mean do I know that the owner of a DC team will be a wealthy former US international who works with one of top athletic colleges in the US? Yes I do

by marty2086 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 10:07 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Theres no point having a presence in maybe the biggest consumer market in the world, home to some of the worlds biggest brands?

They need to justify being there. How much does a flight to the USA cost these days ? Then times that by 30+. Then there is the cost of accommodation and travel whilst out there for all the players coaches physios.

The regions are barely getting by as it is, never mind the costs of going to the USA for a few fixtures of rugby.

Unless they do the same type of deal as the South Africans are doing, then it is a non starter.

How much does it cost to get to an away game in South Africa or USA now for pro14 teams? Quite incredible that this has come about. Barely any away fans in 90% of fixtures. It's just sad.

How many Irish, Scots, Italians and to a lesser extent Welsh expats live in the US? How many second or third generation who would love to watch a top level game in the US?

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