The Future for the PRO14 - Part 4 - A Global Club Championship

First topic message reminder :

Following the Union Balldance of the last 12 months, another union has finally joined the party - SARU. The PRO12 league is gone with Martin Anayi's announcement of a global club championship involving conferences of teams from five unions with the potential for more to be included.

At first glance, it looks like a smart play - albeit somewhat fortuitous with SARU having to shed two teams from the Super Rugby competition. It brings together a lot more viewers that are attractive to media companies and business sponsors. Celtic Rugby Ltd still owns the competition with just its three founding shareholders - IRFU, SRU and WRU. No club or franchise owners involved. FIR failed to meet the required performance that would have made them shareholders at the beginning of July. And SARU weren't persuasive enough to get their seat at the table just yet. Rumours of a new company being set up failed to materialise. But they still signed up to a six-year agreement with £6m in funding each year.

It's not clear if this money is coming from SARU or directly from SuperSport, their broadcast partner. It is SARU who have signed the agreement to provide two teams so presumably the financial buck stops with them. It's more likely the £6m is a participation fee paid by SARU, similar to what FIR was charged when it joined in 2010. Media reports have said that the monies will be split equally amongst the 12 teams with travel and logistics costs for SA trips met centrally by Celtic Rugby Ltd since these will vary for clubs depending on whether they play one or both teams in SA.

Next on Anayi's agenda is the negotiation of a new media deal involving PPV and terrestrial TV, and online platforms. SuperSport may have already got their slice - all 20-22 home games involving Cheetahs and Kings plus some/all of the finals stages. Or perhaps not. Sky and possibly other PPV broadcasters such as Eir Sport may be willing to bid more to be the primary broadcaster for a higher profile, expanded Championship. But Anayi will want to keep a slice for terrestrial TV since they have a much better viewership reach. The current deal is for four years. Would a six-year deal be a better strategic move to guarantee increased revenues for a longer period? It would link in with the duration of the SARU agreement. And it would outlast the current participation agreement for the European Cup run by EPCR.

Further expansion is obviously the other key consideration with possibly other teams from SA, US and Europe coming on board. The danger is that Celtic Rugby goes too far and repeats the mistakes of Super Rugby. Better to build slowly to see if they will still come.

The coming season will be a fascinating one to see how the new structure and Championship beds in. Will attendances increase? Will there be more surprise results and potentially another new team to lift the cup next May?

Roll on 1 September.



Further info on PRO14 can be found here:
http://www.pro14rugby.org/2017/08/01/guinness-pro14-championship-qa/

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just start watching the Welsh prem. It ll do away with your angst.

I prefer the standard of professional rugby, but thanks for your concern.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Their not their work colleagues but Im trying to think where Ive heard that before  

You've probably been told it a thousand times before if we're honest but unfortunately you choose to refute it.

In competent sports competitions, there have been denials of takeovers (Altrad Gloucester, plus I think Arsenal or West Ham had an issue with ownership) This is due to massive conflict of interest.

But in the Pro14 - the teams are owned by the same organisations - yet they play against each other, and against teams that are independently owned. What a nonsense league.

I love how someone who claims to be able to read between the lines uses Altrads failed Gloucester takeover as an example of conflict of interest when he was cleared by all organisations who oversaw competitions where there would be a conflict yet rejected by the one organisation where there wasn't a conflict.

Im not sure why you focus on the Irish when all unions involved in the Pro14 employ refs and players within the league so seems like you're trying to perpetrate a falsehood that it favours the Irish? Especially when the Irish have a win rate of less than 50% against non Irish teams with an Irish ref in charge

No problem. Otherwise it's just a case of getting used to compromise as I don't think wales could sustain a fully professional league made up only of Welsh clubs.

marty2086 wrote:
Im not sure why you focus on the Irish when all unions involved in the Pro14 employ refs and players within the league so seems like you're trying to perpetrate a falsehood that it favours the Irish? Especially when the Irish have a win rate of less than 50% against non Irish teams with an Irish ref in charge

Clearly it's because not all teams are owned by the same organisations employing the referees. Surprised I had to point this out.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Get past the criteria? The Welsh are dumping a tonne of dirt on the pitch in the week before the final, not only will that create problems for the playing surface it takes time to clear

I like how if a group of Irish, Welsh, Scots, Italians and an Englishman make a decision it's because things are rigged in favour of the Irish even though theres plenty of evidence to show that its not the case

I like how suddenly, for 1 year, they let a team with stadium with 18,000 capacity hold the final. And they still couldn't win it.

Ravenhill held it the first year so again you are making sh!t up and how are the Irish to blame when a majority of the Welsh, English, Scots and Italians voted for it?

marty2086 wrote:

Ravenhill held it the first year so again you are making sh!t up and how are the Irish to blame when a majority of the Welsh, English, Scots and Italians voted for it?

What did they vote for?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Ravenhill held it the first year so again you are making sh!t up and how are the Irish to blame when a majority of the Welsh, English, Scots and Italians voted for it?

What did they vote for?

The venue for the final

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Ravenhill held it the first year so again you are making sh!t up and how are the Irish to blame when a majority of the Welsh, English, Scots and Italians voted for it?

What did they vote for?

The venue for the final

The English voted for the venue of the final?

So are you saying all the Irish refs cheat to enable the Irish teams to win?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Ravenhill held it the first year so again you are making sh!t up and how are the Irish to blame when a majority of the Welsh, English, Scots and Italians voted for it?

What did they vote for?

The venue for the final

The English voted for the venue of the final?

Well considering there are Englishmen on the board but that's just further proof of how clueless you are on the matter

No 7&1/2 wrote:How.about a joint British and Irish league split into 2 conferences?

The problem with the British side of any link-in contest is that the British always want and yearn for the traditional Promotional relegation kind of structure.... and I'd hope that we here in Ireland know that such a format is injurious to any consistency of effort, money, player pools of quality, coach keeping, long time profit projections etc etc.

In the end, I can't see why there needs to be only two Leagues operating in the heartland of European Rugby Union (Ireland Britain and France).   The quality that comes from three leagues (very different leagues from each other too in structure) is what keeps us all chatting.  The rivalry is the club version of the International 6N rivalry.

Anyway...*yawn* yet again, the Pro14 is not and never will be good enough of a product for some souls, even on seeing the exploits of their League teams at European Level.  For some, Irish Provinces will never represent THEIR League.... or the League they want to represent them anyway. Fine, I understand the emotions of it all.  So the fight will go on and finally a new solution will be called for again by the pressure boys who just in their heart of hearts want that Anglo/Welsh League above all other considerations.

And for the first time..... the conditions, certainly in the Pro14, might indeed finally allow such a conclusion to be reached down the line.  We have two new teams added now from SA.  Who is to say where that might go?  Maybe another SA team or two. Maybe a team or two from across the Atlantic?  Anything is possible in this age of the possibles.  
So maybe, if the voice for change in Wales keeps the pressure on, and maybe if they finally get their way and the English Premiership makes a space for two or three Regions..... maybe the Pro14 will already be able to say we have replacements ready to take over from the always dubious and resisting Welsh Regions.

A perfect conclusion for all?

I hope you all all people saw the tongue firmly in cheek! Nah as discussed with that other guy Phil for which in the end he completely agreed with and admitted he was wrong, the English wouldn't want to give up any money or power to the Welsh.

carpet baboon wrote:So are you saying all the Irish refs cheat to enable the Irish teams to win?

Subconcious bias. If there was never any doubt that it was a problem - then there wouldn't be any clauses in place to prevent Nigel Owens from refereeing Wales or Jerome Garces refereeing France. It's conflict of interest, and it is removed in competent leagues and competitions

But in the Pro14....................different kettle of fish,

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Ravenhill held it the first year so again you are making sh!t up and how are the Irish to blame when a majority of the Welsh, English, Scots and Italians voted for it?

What did they vote for?

The venue for the final

The English voted for the venue of the final?

Well considering there are Englishmen on the board but that's just further proof of how clueless you are on the matter

So "The English" voted for Kingspan to be the final venue for the Pro14?

That's got to be one of the greatest posts of all time.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I hope you all all people saw the tongue firmly in cheek! Nah as discussed with that other guy Phil for which in the end he completely agreed with and admitted he was wrong, the English wouldn't want to give up any money or power to the Welsh.

So the Welsh don't want the Irish. The English don't want the Welsh. The French don't want any of us. The Scots want to be needed. The Italians want to be loved.

Bit late for that one, Italy!!!! Bit late now...............! Calm done, Fly..... calm yourself.... breathe deeply......

Just what Phil said mate. He knew his stuff and eventually he just said look guys you're correct the Welsh don't hold value to the English or irish. We'll take what we can get. Then said he wasn't going to post anymore as he had been proved so wrong. That'd how it went down as far as I can remember

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Ravenhill held it the first year so again you are making sh!t up and how are the Irish to blame when a majority of the Welsh, English, Scots and Italians voted for it?

What did they vote for?

The venue for the final

The English voted for the venue of the final?

Well considering there are Englishmen on the board but that's just further proof of how clueless you are on the matter

So "The English" voted for Kingspan to be the final venue for the Pro14?

That's got to be one of the greatest posts of all time.

What a strange post. Are you saying the board of the league didn't vote for the venues?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just what Phil said mate. He knew his stuff and eventually he just said look guys you're correct the Welsh don't hold value to the English or irish. We'll take what we can get. Then said he wasn't going to post anymore as he had been proved so wrong. That'd how it went down as far as I can remember

Actually, thanks for that update on that subject 7&1/2. I don't think I was around for the departure of that man from proceedings. I knew it was a long long long debate but I genuinely didn't know how it all ended for him or whether he gained some kind of (warning: Americanism coming!)...closure.

No it was definitely him admitting he was wrong. 99 percent certain. Of course he's longer around to confirm.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:So are you saying all the Irish refs cheat to enable the Irish teams to win?

Subconcious bias. If there was never any doubt that it was a problem - then there wouldn't be any clauses in place to prevent Nigel Owens from refereeing Wales or Jerome Garces refereeing France. It's conflict of interest, and it is removed in competent leagues and competitions

But in the Pro14....................different kettle of fish,

So are you saying they cheat?

carpet baboon wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:So are you saying all the Irish refs cheat to enable the Irish teams to win?

Subconcious bias. If there was never any doubt that it was a problem - then there wouldn't be any clauses in place to prevent Nigel Owens from refereeing Wales or Jerome Garces refereeing France. It's conflict of interest, and it is removed in competent leagues and competitions

But in the Pro14....................different kettle of fish,

So are you saying they cheat?

I'm saying the need to ensure 100% impartiality is there in most sporting competitions. But not the pro14.

I'm glad Nigel has a subconscious bias towards Leinster. He doesn't let us win all the time but like........................ anyway, enough about bias. We all know Welsh refs have no affinity for Welsh players and Welsh clubs when they ref games with Welsh players and Welsh Regions in them.

Oh this does feel so deja vu! You'd swear we ALL talked about this before....in the same sequence of one topic eventually leading to another. But that couldn't be because some of us are new

SecretFly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just what Phil said mate. He knew his stuff and eventually he just said look guys you're correct the Welsh don't hold value to the English or irish. We'll take what we can get. Then said he wasn't going to post anymore as he had been proved so wrong. That'd how it went down as far as I can remember

Actually, thanks for that update on that subject 7&1/2.  I don't think I was around for the departure of that man from proceedings.  I knew it was a long long long debate but I genuinely didn't know how it all ended for him or whether he gained some kind of (warning: Americanism coming!)...closure.

I expect this conversation is to try and tempt me to reveal that I am this Phil bloke and that I wasn't wrong. .........I was right and you're all wrong.

The flaw in your plan is that I'm not Phil, so I :

1) Don't have a clue what you're on about
2) Don't give a fiddle what you;re on about

Eh? No just saying this Phil guy has some.similar thoughts but then admitted he was wrong all along and the English wouldn't want to dilute power or money. Just similar topics if not identical so reckon you will see the light as this other guy did.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just what Phil said mate. He knew his stuff and eventually he just said look guys you're correct the Welsh don't hold value to the English or irish. We'll take what we can get. Then said he wasn't going to post anymore as he had been proved so wrong. That'd how it went down as far as I can remember

Actually, thanks for that update on that subject 7&1/2.  I don't think I was around for the departure of that man from proceedings.  I knew it was a long long long debate but I genuinely didn't know how it all ended for him or whether he gained some kind of (warning: Americanism coming!)...closure.

I expect this conversation is to try and tempt me to reveal that I am this Phil bloke and that I wasn't wrong. .........I was right and you're all wrong.

The flaw in your plan is that I'm not Phil, so I :

1) Don't have a clue what you're on about
2) Don't give a fiddle what you;re on about

Quit talking about a man you never met and are only hearing about from our comments. He's not here to defend himself and I'm sure doesn't need a complete stranger trying to do the job for him. So leave that man out of it and keep to the topics and your own opinions. We'll mention this other guy amongst ourselves coz it's only us that remember him..

No 7&1/2 wrote:Eh? No just saying this Phil guy has some.similar thoughts but then admitted he was wrong all along and the English wouldn't want to dilute power or money. Just similar topics if not identical so reckon you will see the light as this other guy did.

The only poster bringing up English diluting power / British & Irish League etc is yourself.

SecretFly wrote:

Quit talking about a man you never met and are only hearing about from our comments.  He's not here to defend himself and I'm sure doesn't need a complete stranger trying to do the job for him.  So leave that man out of it and keep to the topics and your own opinions.  We'll mention this other guy amongst ourselves coz it's only us that remember him..

Well said. Let's move on.

Premier involves the same guys who developed and then sold Setanta to Eir. They have aligned interests.

Eir have bid for the Irish rights in the Irish territory. This is what Amati said they were likely to do, rather than going for a single primary broadcaster. The best and most value solution for each TV territory. Eir will likely share some of the Irish home matches with TG4 on FTA. They will also have rights for ROI to broadcast away games for Irish sides.

Eir have an existing agreement in place with BT to show their content as part of their package. This includes European games.

Sky bid for both UK territories and Irish territories. They were outbid on the Irish territory by EirSport. This was long predicted by some on here given their recent bid activity on other comps.

BBC will still form part of the broadcasters deal in UK providing FTA in Ni, Scot and Wales. If Premier are successful, they will get a number of match rights to show - in the UK - involving teams from all five countries. Premier will likely do a deal with BT to provide a bundle to show European matches as part of their subscription package.

Separately, Sky and BT are coming close to a deal whereby their programmes are more easily accessible by their respective customers.

Pot Hale wrote:Premier will likely do a deal with BT to provide a bundle to show European matches as part of their subscription package.

That's interesting. And quite surprising.

Yes because thats what was discussed in a similar topic before that guy was.proved wrong and left for some reason. Still good to know you don't hold out.hope for a joint league of any sort with the English rugbyfan.

God, I do hate all the needless doubling up and needless confusion of which platform you try to find your favourite programming on these days...

"Sky and BT are coming close to a deal whereby their programmes are more easily accessible by their respective customers"

Just f**king merge, for Christ's sake...just stop f**king around. Life is too f**king short for all this Network Gamesmanship and million channel 'choices'. Sorry from bring the Basteraud thread language into the Pro14 one

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes because thats what was discussed in a similar topic before that guy was.proved wrong and left for some reason. Still good to know you don't hold out.hope for a joint league of any sort with the English rugbyfan.

I'm not sure it's possible in the forseeable future as much as I think it would benefit the celtic nations and their teams.

Nah. As discussed it's been done.to death and everyone agreed that there was nothing in it for the English.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:So are you saying all the Irish refs cheat to enable the Irish teams to win?

Subconcious bias. If there was never any doubt that it was a problem - then there wouldn't be any clauses in place to prevent Nigel Owens from refereeing Wales or Jerome Garces refereeing France. It's conflict of interest, and it is removed in competent leagues and competitions

But in the Pro14....................different kettle of fish,

So are you saying they cheat?

I'm saying the need to ensure 100% impartiality is there in most sporting competitions. But not the pro14.

Not possible because we don't have enough Scottish or Italians refs
As stated Welsh refs ref Welsh matches as much as Irish refs ref Irish matches.
You really do go to desperate lengths to come up with this stuff.

As to TV needless to say they dictate kick off dates.
Ulster are in the fortunate position that TV prefer to show them on Friday but no bias
What is really funny is the fact Welsh teams have kicked off on Thursdays and Sundays has been because of their own TV companies
or to accommodate a soccer match.
The problem is internal to Wales but to admit it is your own fault is clearly a step too far

So the only real solution of this is to only sell tv rights to one station with access to all 5 countries. And.to only employ refs from outside those countries. Easy fixes.

geoff999rugby wrote:

Not possible because we don't have enough Scottish or Italians refs
As stated Welsh refs ref Welsh matches as much as Irish refs ref Irish matches.
You really do go to desperate lengths to come up with this stuff.

The point about having not enough referees is untrue. There are enough South African and Scottish officials but the Pro14 are saving money by not flying them and swapping for fixtures. So you get South African referees refereeing in South Africa and a Scottish set officiating in Scotland. It's not that there aren't enough. It's that the league is such a logistical nightmare that it's too expensive to co-ordinate.

As to TV needless to say they dictate kick off dates.
Ulster are in the fortunate position that TV prefer to show them on Friday but no bias
What is really funny is the fact Welsh teams have kicked off on Thursdays and Sundays has been because of their own TV companies
or to accommodate a soccer match.
The problem is internal to Wales but to admit it is your own fault is clearly a step too far

Yes that's right it's my fault.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes because thats what was discussed in a similar topic before that guy was.proved wrong and left for some reason. Still good to know you don't hold out.hope for a joint league of any sort with the English rugbyfan.

I'm not sure it's possible in the forseeable future as much as I think it would benefit the celtic nations and their teams.

I think I said this before some time ago ..somewhere. Anyway, the Irish Provinces are rolling in it and smug enough to say 'what the hell would we do joining a League where the trapdoor of relegation might bite you in the ass after three or four seasons and then all your best gadgets (players and coaches) would be bought up by the BIG teams (wot does be having the blank cheques and the under the counter over-the-cap payments) that will never risk demotion?

What the hell is in that deal for the Irish Provinces?
And don't worry about answering. I kinda think I know what kind of answer you're going to give to that one for some reason.

Jeez I forgot about the south africans now. One tv station which delivers across all 6 countries and refs etc etc.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Premier will likely do a deal with BT to provide a bundle to show European matches as part of their subscription package.

That's interesting. And quite surprising.

Why surprising?

Pot Hale wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Premier will likely do a deal with BT to provide a bundle to show European matches as part of their subscription package.

That's interesting. And quite surprising.

Why surprising?

Is your afternoon free? Get comfy. It's all coming down your channel...one more time.

Pot Hale wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Premier will likely do a deal with BT to provide a bundle to show European matches as part of their subscription package.

That's interesting. And quite surprising.

Why surprising?

I would have thought that another station going in to competition with BT for rugby rights would be seen as just that .....competition.

Eir already have the BT package in place contractually. So not much BT can do about them getting extra rugby. But letting Premier Sports have their matches is interesting. Where did you hear this?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

Not possible because we don't have enough Scottish or Italians refs
As stated Welsh refs ref Welsh matches as much as Irish refs ref Irish matches.
You really do go to desperate lengths to come up with this stuff.

The point about having not enough referees is untrue. There are enough South African and Scottish officials but the Pro14 are saving money by not flying them and swapping for fixtures. So you get South African referees refereeing in South Africa and a Scottish set officiating in Scotland. It's not that there aren't enough. It's that the league is such a logistical nightmare that it's too expensive to co-ordinate.

Then why do you always get Welsh refs in Ireland?

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Ravenhill held it the first year so again you are making sh!t up and how are the Irish to blame when a majority of the Welsh, English, Scots and Italians voted for it?

What did they vote for?

The venue for the final

The English voted for the venue of the final?

Well considering there are Englishmen on the board but that's just further proof of how clueless you are on the matter

So "The English" voted for Kingspan to be the final venue for the Pro14?

That's got to be one of the greatest posts of all time.

What a strange post. Are you saying the board of the league didn't vote for the venues?

marty2086 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Ravenhill held it the first year so again you are making sh!t up and how are the Irish to blame when a majority of the Welsh, English, Scots and Italians voted for it?

What did they vote for?

The venue for the final

The English voted for the venue of the final?

Well considering there are Englishmen on the board but that's just further proof of how clueless you are on the matter

So "The English" voted for Kingspan to be the final venue for the Pro14?

That's got to be one of the greatest posts of all time.

What a strange post. Are you saying the board of the league didn't vote for the venues?

No, I'm saying 'The English' didn't.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Ravenhill held it the first year so again you are making sh!t up and how are the Irish to blame when a majority of the Welsh, English, Scots and Italians voted for it?

What did they vote for?

The venue for the final

The English voted for the venue of the final?

Well considering there are Englishmen on the board but that's just further proof of how clueless you are on the matter

So "The English" voted for Kingspan to be the final venue for the Pro14?

That's got to be one of the greatest posts of all time.

What a strange post. Are you saying the board of the league didn't vote for the venues?

No, I'm saying 'The English' didn't.

So there are no English on the Pro 14 board?

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

Not possible because we don't have enough Scottish or Italians refs
As stated Welsh refs ref Welsh matches as much as Irish refs ref Irish matches.
You really do go to desperate lengths to come up with this stuff.

The point about having not enough referees is untrue. There are enough South African and Scottish officials but the Pro14 are saving money by not flying them and swapping for fixtures. So you get South African referees refereeing in South Africa and a Scottish set officiating in Scotland. It's not that there aren't enough. It's that the league is such a logistical nightmare that it's too expensive to co-ordinate.

Then why do you always get Welsh refs in Ireland?

Don't understand the relevance of this question sorry.

Any official refereeing a team from the same nation as his or her refereeing pathway is just plain wrong, unless both teams are of that same nation. It's incredible that in 2018 there are people still out there that don't feel this is important.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

Not possible because we don't have enough Scottish or Italians refs
As stated Welsh refs ref Welsh matches as much as Irish refs ref Irish matches.
You really do go to desperate lengths to come up with this stuff.

The point about having not enough referees is untrue. There are enough South African and Scottish officials but the Pro14 are saving money by not flying them and swapping for fixtures. So you get South African referees refereeing in South Africa and a Scottish set officiating in Scotland. It's not that there aren't enough. It's that the league is such a logistical nightmare that it's too expensive to co-ordinate.

Then why do you always get Welsh refs in Ireland?

Don't understand the relevance of this question sorry.

Any official refereeing a team from the same nation as his or her refereeing pathway is just plain wrong, unless both teams are of that same nation. It's incredible that in 2018 there are people still out there that don't feel this is important.

You claim that Scottish and SA refs aren't sent to ref games outside their own country yet the league regularly sends Welsh refs to ref games in Ireland, so why do they send Welsh refs and not Scottish or SA refs?

marty2086 wrote:

So there are no English on the Pro 14 board?

I've never claimed such a thing. What amuses me is that they are referred to as 'The English'.

marty2086 wrote:

You claim that Scottish and SA refs aren't sent to ref games outside their own country yet the league regularly sends Welsh refs to ref games in Ireland, so why do they send Welsh refs and not Scottish or SA refs?

As long as those Welsh referees aren't refereeing Welsh sides it's fine. I think you are a bit confused.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

So there are no English on the Pro 14 board?

I've never claimed such a thing. What amuses me is that they are referred to as 'The English'.

Why? It was you who referred to the as the English so you amuse yourself with your references?