The Future for the PRO14 - Part 4 - A Global Club Championship

First topic message reminder :

Following the Union Balldance of the last 12 months, another union has finally joined the party - SARU. The PRO12 league is gone with Martin Anayi's announcement of a global club championship involving conferences of teams from five unions with the potential for more to be included.

At first glance, it looks like a smart play - albeit somewhat fortuitous with SARU having to shed two teams from the Super Rugby competition. It brings together a lot more viewers that are attractive to media companies and business sponsors. Celtic Rugby Ltd still owns the competition with just its three founding shareholders - IRFU, SRU and WRU. No club or franchise owners involved. FIR failed to meet the required performance that would have made them shareholders at the beginning of July. And SARU weren't persuasive enough to get their seat at the table just yet. Rumours of a new company being set up failed to materialise. But they still signed up to a six-year agreement with £6m in funding each year.

It's not clear if this money is coming from SARU or directly from SuperSport, their broadcast partner. It is SARU who have signed the agreement to provide two teams so presumably the financial buck stops with them. It's more likely the £6m is a participation fee paid by SARU, similar to what FIR was charged when it joined in 2010. Media reports have said that the monies will be split equally amongst the 12 teams with travel and logistics costs for SA trips met centrally by Celtic Rugby Ltd since these will vary for clubs depending on whether they play one or both teams in SA.

Next on Anayi's agenda is the negotiation of a new media deal involving PPV and terrestrial TV, and online platforms. SuperSport may have already got their slice - all 20-22 home games involving Cheetahs and Kings plus some/all of the finals stages. Or perhaps not. Sky and possibly other PPV broadcasters such as Eir Sport may be willing to bid more to be the primary broadcaster for a higher profile, expanded Championship. But Anayi will want to keep a slice for terrestrial TV since they have a much better viewership reach. The current deal is for four years. Would a six-year deal be a better strategic move to guarantee increased revenues for a longer period? It would link in with the duration of the SARU agreement. And it would outlast the current participation agreement for the European Cup run by EPCR.

Further expansion is obviously the other key consideration with possibly other teams from SA, US and Europe coming on board. The danger is that Celtic Rugby goes too far and repeats the mistakes of Super Rugby. Better to build slowly to see if they will still come.

The coming season will be a fascinating one to see how the new structure and Championship beds in. Will attendances increase? Will there be more surprise results and potentially another new team to lift the cup next May?

Roll on 1 September.



Further info on PRO14 can be found here:
http://www.pro14rugby.org/2017/08/01/guinness-pro14-championship-qa/

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

That doesn't explain why the Italians, Welsh, Scottish and English on the board would favour the Irish...please you have yet to explain it

The majority of Unions stick together, and would be more than happy to vote against independently run organisations.

After all, we know that the pro14 and Martin Anayi don't want the 4 welsh regions in the competition.

Except the Regions are represented on the board so again you are just making stuff up to try and make your cockahop theories seem credibile

Why do they not want the Welsh regions in then?

I am not making stuff up in the slightest. Anayi has gone on record to say he doesn't want clubs in the Pro14 that have the same mdoel as the English and French. He wants Union run clubs in a Union run competition. That means he doesn't want the 4 Welsh teams in their current format.

marty2086 wrote:cockahop theories

Why are his theories cockahoop ? Why can't your counter arguments be cockahoop ?

This is the thing here, and one reason why I gave this place a break for the last few weeks, nobody will even consider anybody else's opinions, it's straight into a p1ss take and insult packed cocktail all the time.

Why can you never even consider that perhaps the fact that union controlled teams and officials can court controversy ?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I was at a game where Dudley Phillips was refereeing, Ospreys and Munster, he was so one sided, that fans were getting up and leaving, trust me it happened. I also remember a game between Ospreys and Leinster where John Lacey kept ignoring the TMO and was letting Leinster do as they pleased. One point, the TMO said that Ben Teo fore arm smashed Sam Davies, Sam Davies went off and missed the next few weeks because of a HIA, yet nothing was done. Also, do not get me started with Marshal Kilgore at the Kingspan/Ravenhill.

Look it might just be a matter of coincidence, and it is probably because they are crap refs, but it was happening.

There was also a time when the Scarlets fans were waiting for the players to get of the team coach, and when Munster team got off, the ref got off with them, sparking claims of the Irish sides bringing their own refs with them.

I remember Dai young spitting feathers after a Leinster and Cardiff game, where the Irish ref gifted Leinster the game. There are loads of incidents.

You have this stupid criteria for hosting a final, but when the WRU finally put a bid in, they are not chosen because of "other" circumstances. There is just too many instances that would start making even them most laid back person start to question the credentials of our league.  

Did you see Ulster v Scarlets earlier this season? It was on BBC Wales and the Scarlets got a penalty. Martin Williams said in commentary "I tell you what, they're lucky they got that penalty out here, with Irish officials"

What could he possibly have meant by that I wonder?

I don't know but coaches get fined for such comments. Is there a divine right to be best and win more than the non-rugby tradition Nations of the world? Is that the problem the Irish posters don't fully understand?
Is the alleged strength of the Irish Provinces actual proof that the competition just has to be biased in their favour? Martin Williams just can't fathom that farmery folks from out West can pretend they is equal to or sometimes better than a Welsh boy whose father's father's father's father played the game?

I don't know what he could have possibly meant. Do ask him if you get a chance sometime.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

That doesn't explain why the Italians, Welsh, Scottish and English on the board would favour the Irish...please you have yet to explain it

The majority of Unions stick together, and would be more than happy to vote against independently run organisations.

After all, we know that the pro14 and Martin Anayi don't want the 4 welsh regions in the competition.

Except the Regions are represented on the board so again you are just making stuff up to try and make your cockahop theories seem credibile

Why do they not want the Welsh regions in then?

I am not making stuff up in the slightest. Anayi has gone on record to say he doesn't want clubs in the Pro14 that have the same mdoel as the English and French. He wants Union run clubs in a Union run competition. That means he doesn't want the 4 Welsh teams in their current format.

I didn't realise the 4 Welsh REGIONS were clubs???

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

That doesn't explain why the Italians, Welsh, Scottish and English on the board would favour the Irish...please you have yet to explain it

The majority of Unions stick together, and would be more than happy to vote against independently run organisations.

After all, we know that the pro14 and Martin Anayi don't want the 4 welsh regions in the competition.

Except the Regions are represented on the board so again you are just making stuff up to try and make your cockahop theories seem credibile

Why do they not want the Welsh regions in then?

I am not making stuff up in the slightest. Anayi has gone on record to say he doesn't want clubs in the Pro14 that have the same mdoel as the English and French. He wants Union run clubs in a Union run competition. That means he doesn't want the 4 Welsh teams in their current format.

And you don't want Union controlled teams in your ideal of a League. And Regions don't want to be in anything that doesn't include their friends across the border because Welsh fans allegedly don't like travelling too far.

Yep...we've been to all these bus stops before....

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
I didn't realise the 4 Welsh REGIONS were clubs???

Top post that.

SecretFly wrote:
And you don't want Union controlled teams in your ideal of a League.  And Regions don't want to be in anything that doesn't include their friends across the border because Welsh fans allegedly don't like travelling too far.

Yep...we've been to all these bus stops before....

So if the CEO of the entire league has gone on record to say he doesn't want the model that the 4 Welsh sides are using, in his league, can you sort of see why there would be a teeny weeny bit of worry over where his priorities lie?

Do any of you actually want to discuss the concerns properly ? Or are you all just happy to keep taking swipes ?

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:cockahop theories

Why are his theories cockahoop ? Why can't your counter arguments be cockahoop ?

This is the thing here, and one reason why I gave this place a break for the last few weeks, nobody will even consider anybody else's opinions, it's straight into a p1ss take and insult packed cocktail all the time.

Why can you never even consider that perhaps the fact that union controlled teams and officials can court controversy ?

He has claimed there are enough SA and Scottish referees available, there are two and one respectively, also while claiming its the league saving money without presenting evidence.

His argument is that everything is just too convenient, he argues that the Unions are in it together to the benefit of only the Irish. If that's not cockahop then I don't know what it is.

He presents nothing of substance to back up any claim and when his claims are countered by evidence he basically says well they would say that

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:cockahop theories

Why are his theories cockahoop ? Why can't your counter arguments be cockahoop ?

This is the thing here, and one reason why I gave this place a break for the last few weeks, nobody will even consider anybody else's opinions, it's straight into a p1ss take and insult packed cocktail all the time.

Why can you never even consider that perhaps the fact that union controlled teams and officials can court controversy ?

The same arguments have been countered numerous times and have fallen on deaf ears. We are still hearing about Ulster playing on Friday night's being unfair when it has been explained a thousand times that the tv (ie the companies that bring the most money to the league!) Dictate the times. The Welsh already got rid of Sunday games because that too was unfair. Now we don't have any league games to watch on Sunday's which is a pain in the hole.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
And you don't want Union controlled teams in your ideal of a League.  And Regions don't want to be in anything that doesn't include their friends across the border because Welsh fans allegedly don't like travelling too far.

Yep...we've been to all these bus stops before....

So if the CEO of the entire league has gone on record to say he doesn't want the model that the 4 Welsh sides are using, in his league, can you sort of see why there would be a teeny weeny bit of worry over where his priorities lie?

Yeah...probably the same kind of worry that existed about priorities when the Welsh regions tried to kill off the League completely when last they involved themselves in negotiations about the future route of the League. If you make it plain you don't want to belong, then don't be surprised if the enthusiasm for your continued involvement becomes lukewarm.

You reap what you sow.

So the obvious answer is that the Welsh clubs try to form their own professional league. Just needs fans pressure then.

LordDowlais wrote:Do any of you actually want to discuss the concerns properly ? Or are you all just happy to keep taking swipes ?

They don't even see them as concerns.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
I didn't realise the 4 Welsh REGIONS were clubs???

Top post that.

They aren't clubs like in the English and French leagues... you do understand this as a supporter of one of those regions yes?

marty2086 wrote:He has claimed there are enough SA and Scottish referees available, there are two and one respectively, also while claiming its the league saving money without presenting evidence.

I gave a very well balanced answer to our refereeing situation whilst replying to SF, but for some reason nobody wanted to counter it, all you wanted to do was try and make out that RugbyFan is a looney.

marty2086 wrote:His argument is that everything is just too convenient, he argues that the Unions are in it together to the benefit of only the Irish. If that's not cockahop then I don't know what it is.

Then rather than just dismiss his opinions as cockahoop, try giving a reasoned response as to why you think he is wrong. That's what adults do.

marty2086 wrote:He presents nothing of substance to back up any claim and when his claims are countered by evidence he basically says well they would say that

So do you as well mind.

SecretFly wrote:

Yeah...probably the same kind of worry that existed about priorities when the Welsh regions tried to kill off the League completely when last they involved themselves in negotiations about the future route of the League.

You are off the charts. Deluded beyond:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/4599583.stm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
I didn't realise the 4 Welsh REGIONS were clubs???

Top post that.

They aren't clubs like in the English and French leagues... you do understand this as a supporter of one of those regions yes?

Glory. Ymlaen.

What's your solution rugbyfan?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
I didn't realise the 4 Welsh REGIONS were clubs???

Top post that.

They aren't clubs like in the English and French leagues... you do understand this as a supporter of one of those regions yes?

Glory. Ymlaen.

If you can't understand what Anyai meant by that comment god help ya.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:He has claimed there are enough SA and Scottish referees available, there are two and one respectively, also while claiming its the league saving money without presenting evidence.

I gave a very well balanced answer to our refereeing situation whilst replying to SF, but for some reason nobody wanted to counter it, all you wanted to do was try and make out that RugbyFan is a looney.

marty2086 wrote:His argument is that everything is just too convenient, he argues that the Unions are in it together to the benefit of only the Irish. If that's not cockahop then I don't know what it is.

Then rather than just dismiss his opinions as cockahoop, try giving a reasoned response as to why you think he is wrong. That's what adults do.

marty2086 wrote:He presents nothing of substance to back up any claim and when his claims are countered by evidence he basically says well they would say that

So do you as well mind.

I saw your response and you got a couple of responses to it so your first claim is out the window

I have given numerous reasoned responses and was basically told they're all in it together, Im still waiting to hear why RRW would vote against their own interests

I've presented plenty of evidence to back up what I've said so again it seems you are just talking rubbish

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

That doesn't explain why the Italians, Welsh, Scottish and English on the board would favour the Irish...please you have yet to explain it

The majority of Unions stick together, and would be more than happy to vote against independently run organisations.

After all, we know that the pro14 and Martin Anayi don't want the 4 welsh regions in the competition.

Except the Regions are represented on the board so again you are just making stuff up to try and make your cockahop theories seem credibile

Why do they not want the Welsh regions in then?

I am not making stuff up in the slightest. Anayi has gone on record to say he doesn't want clubs in the Pro14 that have the same mdoel as the English and French. He wants Union run clubs in a Union run competition. That means he doesn't want the 4 Welsh teams in their current format.

You don't make stuff up yet just made that up?

The quote

'"The difference comes in the very wealthy backers over-funding. We don't really want a model that copies [the English and French], because we want to be here in 10 or 20 years time.

No 7&1/2 wrote:What's your solution rugbyfan?

In the abscence of any route into a British and Irish League, World rugby need to stipulate that no owner of a club can also own another club in a competition that they may face each other. It's a farce that this is allowed in 2018 in a "professional" league. This would mean that the clubs can then be run on a hybrid of Union payments for supply of players and private investment. Are the Scottish clubs still looking for investors to run their 2?

The league should also be run in a neutral location with no Union interference. Unions should run their national teams, govern rugby but not run league competitions. This new competition would then have professional game boards from each nation with their sole remit being to enhance the teams in it and the competition as a whole, no balancing acts with trying to rest players for test games. The investment / nous coming in from backers would prove invaluable in creating more sponsors and outside ££. As the league grows, broadcasters will want to invest. I wouldn't want German or USA teams involved. I can see no merit in playing even more teams with absolutely no traditional ties to our rugby heritage.

That's my solution. The Irish will baulk at it.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:What's your solution rugbyfan?

In the abscence of any route into a British and Irish League, World rugby need to stipulate that no owner of a club can also own another club in a competition that they may face each other. It's a farce that this is allowed in 2018 in a  "professional" league. This would mean that the clubs can then be run on a hybrid of Union payments for supply of players and private investment. Are the Scottish clubs still looking for investors to run their 2?

The league should also be run in a neutral location with no Union interference. Unions should run their national teams, govern rugby but not run league competitions. This new competition would then have professional game boards from each nation with their sole remit being to enhance the teams in it and the competition as a whole, no balancing acts with trying to rest players for test games. The investment / nous coming in from backers would prove invaluable in creating more sponsors and outside ££. As the league grows, broadcasters will want to invest. I wouldn't want  German or USA teams involved. I can see no merit in playing even more teams with absolutely no traditional ties to our rugby heritage.

That's my solution. The Irish will baulk at it.

Except World Rugby ok'd Altrads takeover of Gloucester so seems they aren't worried about it, not to mention the English, French and others have signed off on it in the league and Europe

Well clearly yes because they have decided to go down one route. So you accept that that's a no go from the off so you believe there's no solution to your concerns?

marty2086 wrote:

You don't make stuff up yet just made that up?

The quote

'"The difference comes in the very wealthy backers over-funding. We don't really want a model that copies [the English and French], because we want to be here in 10 or 20 years time.

"That wealthy benefactor model is only as good as that wealthy benefactor wanting to be there and carry on spending.

"We don't see that as the be all and end all of rugby generally.

He doesn't want the benefactor model. That's currently 3 of the 4 Welsh teams he doesn't want.

marty2086 wrote:I saw your response and you got a couple of responses to it so your first claim is out the window

No I didn't. Perhaps because it does not suit the agenda of you and your fellow Irish members, how convenient. I suggest you check before you type.

marty2086 wrote:I've presented plenty of evidence to back up what I've said so again it seems you are just talking rubbish

See, this is typical of you. You said his opinions are cockahoop. Without providing anything to back up that claim, no substance what so ever. Then you tell me I am talking rubbish, again without any substance to back that up.

Just because you say something, it does not mean you are right.

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:What's your solution rugbyfan?

In the abscence of any route into a British and Irish League, World rugby need to stipulate that no owner of a club can also own another club in a competition that they may face each other. It's a farce that this is allowed in 2018 in a  "professional" league. This would mean that the clubs can then be run on a hybrid of Union payments for supply of players and private investment. Are the Scottish clubs still looking for investors to run their 2?

The league should also be run in a neutral location with no Union interference. Unions should run their national teams, govern rugby but not run league competitions. This new competition would then have professional game boards from each nation with their sole remit being to enhance the teams in it and the competition as a whole, no balancing acts with trying to rest players for test games. The investment / nous coming in from backers would prove invaluable in creating more sponsors and outside ££. As the league grows, broadcasters will want to invest. I wouldn't want  German or USA teams involved. I can see no merit in playing even more teams with absolutely no traditional ties to our rugby heritage.

That's my solution. The Irish will baulk at it.

Except World Rugby ok'd Altrads takeover of Gloucester so seems they aren't worried about it, not to mention the English, French and others have signed off on it in the league and Europe

Absolutely. I was just answering the question.

But answering it with somthing you accept straight away wouldn't happen.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

You don't make stuff up yet just made that up?

The quote

'"The difference comes in the very wealthy backers over-funding. We don't really want a model that copies [the English and French], because we want to be here in 10 or 20 years time.

"That wealthy benefactor model is only as good as that wealthy benefactor wanting to be there and carry on spending.

"We don't see that as the be all and end all of rugby generally.

He doesn't want the benefactor model. That's currently 3 of the 4 Welsh teams he doesn't want.

So the Unions aren't wealthy or benefactors?

And the quote you just posted doesn't say he doesn't want it, he just criticises it so.....

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well clearly yes because they have decided to go down one route. So you accept that that's a no go from the off so you believe there's no solution to your concerns?

It's what I think should happen. The fact it probably won't is why the pro14 is a laughing stock in England and France no matter how many times Leinster beat Exeter or Scarlets beat Bath. It's a joke league that can only manage to attract the likes of Premier Sports.

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

You don't make stuff up yet just made that up?

The quote

'"The difference comes in the very wealthy backers over-funding. We don't really want a model that copies [the English and French], because we want to be here in 10 or 20 years time.

"That wealthy benefactor model is only as good as that wealthy benefactor wanting to be there and carry on spending.

"We don't see that as the be all and end all of rugby generally.

He doesn't want the benefactor model. That's currently 3 of the 4 Welsh teams he doesn't want.

So the Unions aren't wealthy or benefactors?

And the quote you just posted doesn't say he doesn't want it, he just criticises it so.....

He says he doesn't want a model that copies the English or the French. That is right there in quotes.

He doesn't want the private benefactor model Marty. That's Cardiff, Ospreys and Scarlets he doesn't want in their current format.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:What's your solution rugbyfan?

In the abscence of any route into a British and Irish League, World rugby need to stipulate that no owner of a club can also own another club in a competition that they may face each other. It's a farce that this is allowed in 2018 in a  "professional" league. This would mean that the clubs can then be run on a hybrid of Union payments for supply of players and private investment. Are the Scottish clubs still looking for investors to run their 2?

The league should also be run in a neutral location with no Union interference. Unions should run their national teams, govern rugby but not run league competitions. This new competition would then have professional game boards from each nation with their sole remit being to enhance the teams in it and the competition as a whole, no balancing acts with trying to rest players for test games. The investment / nous coming in from backers would prove invaluable in creating more sponsors and outside ££. As the league grows, broadcasters will want to invest. I wouldn't want  German or USA teams involved. I can see no merit in playing even more teams with absolutely no traditional ties to our rugby heritage.

That's my solution. The Irish will baulk at it.

Except World Rugby ok'd Altrads takeover of Gloucester so seems they aren't worried about it, not to mention the English, French and others have signed off on it in the league and Europe

Absolutely. I was just answering the question.

As with most things the point has went over your head

you claim it's a farce that its allowed and your quotation marks around professional claim you see it as otherwise. This is allowed across many competitions in rugby so it would seem you think most competitions are therefore unprofessional

RugbyFan100 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Yeah...probably the same kind of worry that existed about priorities when the Welsh regions tried to kill off the League completely when last they involved themselves in negotiations about the future route of the League.

You are off the charts. Deluded beyond:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/4599583.stm

Well you would see everyone else as deluded, wouldn't you? They just gotta be. They can't see what you see - that the afflicted and much maligned Regions actually love the Pro14 but are being mercilessly pushed out by the terrible Union boys of backward thinking and outdated methods.

It's not a solution at all rugbyfan if even you think it can't be done hence do you believe their is no solution? The league isn't judged as a joke.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

You don't make stuff up yet just made that up?

The quote

'"The difference comes in the very wealthy backers over-funding. We don't really want a model that copies [the English and French], because we want to be here in 10 or 20 years time.

"That wealthy benefactor model is only as good as that wealthy benefactor wanting to be there and carry on spending.

"We don't see that as the be all and end all of rugby generally.

He doesn't want the benefactor model. That's currently 3 of the 4 Welsh teams he doesn't want.

So the Unions aren't wealthy or benefactors?

And the quote you just posted doesn't say he doesn't want it, he just criticises it so.....

He says he doesn't want a model that copies the English or the French. That is right there in quotes.

He doesn't want the private benefactor model Marty. That's Cardiff, Ospreys and Scarlets he doesn't want in their current format.

Except it's not there in quotes because he says wealthy benefactor not private benefactor and references overspending so you can definitely exclude Cardiff as they are doing anything but overspending and can you say Ospreys or Scarlets are overspending?

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's not a solution at all rugbyfan if even you think it can't be done hence do you believe their is no solution? The league isn't judged as a joke.

I didn't say it can't be done. I said it won't be done. Because the Irish Union don't want to upset their good thing they'be got going on.

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

You don't make stuff up yet just made that up?

The quote

'"The difference comes in the very wealthy backers over-funding. We don't really want a model that copies [the English and French], because we want to be here in 10 or 20 years time.

"That wealthy benefactor model is only as good as that wealthy benefactor wanting to be there and carry on spending.

"We don't see that as the be all and end all of rugby generally.

He doesn't want the benefactor model. That's currently 3 of the 4 Welsh teams he doesn't want.

So the Unions aren't wealthy or benefactors?

And the quote you just posted doesn't say he doesn't want it, he just criticises it so.....

He says he doesn't want a model that copies the English or the French. That is right there in quotes.

He doesn't want the private benefactor model Marty. That's Cardiff, Ospreys and Scarlets he doesn't want in their current format.

Except it's not there in quotes because he says wealthy benefactor not private benefactor and references overspending so you can definitely exclude Cardiff as they are doing anything but overspending and can you say Ospreys or Scarlets are overspending?

That's exactly it. He thinks investing in rugby is "over-spending". It's a pretty terrifying thought - the CEO of our league thinks that private individuals putting their own money into the sport of rugby union to try and make teams better is a bad thing. Let that sink in.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well clearly yes because they have decided to go down one route. So you accept that that's a no go from the off so you believe there's no solution to your concerns?

It's what I think should happen. The fact it probably won't is why the pro14 is a laughing stock in England and France no matter how many times Leinster beat Exeter or Scarlets beat Bath. It's a joke league that can only manage to attract the likes of Premier Sports.

Why would we care what the English think of our league? It attracted SKY and SKY wanted to retain the league but were outbid by two sports channels trying to muscle their way into becoming major players in the rugby market. Premier sports is a major player in NRL and super league. Are they joke leagues?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well clearly yes because they have decided to go down one route. So you accept that that's a no go from the off so you believe there's no solution to your concerns?

It's what I think should happen. The fact it probably won't is why the pro14 is a laughing stock in England and France no matter how many times Leinster beat Exeter or Scarlets beat Bath. It's a joke league that can only manage to attract the likes of Premier Sports.

Why would we care what the English think of our league? It attracted SKY and SKY wanted to retain the league but were outbid by two sports channels trying to muscle their way into becoming major players in the rugby market. Premier sports is a major player in NRL and super league. Are they joke leagues?

I don't know anything about rugby league sorry.

Premier Sports

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

You don't make stuff up yet just made that up?

The quote

'"The difference comes in the very wealthy backers over-funding. We don't really want a model that copies [the English and French], because we want to be here in 10 or 20 years time.

"That wealthy benefactor model is only as good as that wealthy benefactor wanting to be there and carry on spending.

"We don't see that as the be all and end all of rugby generally.

He doesn't want the benefactor model. That's currently 3 of the 4 Welsh teams he doesn't want.

So the Unions aren't wealthy or benefactors?

And the quote you just posted doesn't say he doesn't want it, he just criticises it so.....

He says he doesn't want a model that copies the English or the French. That is right there in quotes.

He doesn't want the private benefactor model Marty. That's Cardiff, Ospreys and Scarlets he doesn't want in their current format.

Except it's not there in quotes because he says wealthy benefactor not private benefactor and references overspending so you can definitely exclude Cardiff as they are doing anything but overspending and can you say Ospreys or Scarlets are overspending?

That's exactly it. He thinks investing in rugby is "over-spending". It's a pretty terrifying thought - the CEO of our league thinks that private individuals putting their own money into the sport of rugby union to try and make teams better is a bad thing. Let that sink in.

No, yet again you are taking one thing and taking a leap to another

Considering the unions invest in the different regions and clubs too he clearly has no problem with investment.

The problem with the English and French models is that the majority of clubs in both leagues are carrying large debts and that is unsustainable as they are after all businesses. So maybe instead of jumping to conclusions but on things based on something other than the weak a$$ evidence you provide maybe do a bit of reading up on the models he speaks about

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well clearly yes because they have decided to go down one route. So you accept that that's a no go from the off so you believe there's no solution to your concerns?

It's what I think should happen. The fact it probably won't is why the pro14 is a laughing stock in England and France no matter how many times Leinster beat Exeter or Scarlets beat Bath. It's a joke league that can only manage to attract the likes of Premier Sports.

Why would we care what the English think of our league? It attracted SKY and SKY wanted to retain the league but were outbid by two sports channels trying to muscle their way into becoming major players in the rugby market. Premier sports is a major player in NRL and super league. Are they joke leagues?

I don't know anything about rugby league sorry.

Premier Sports

You don't seem to know much about anything...

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well clearly yes because they have decided to go down one route. So you accept that that's a no go from the off so you believe there's no solution to your concerns?

It's what I think should happen. The fact it probably won't is why the pro14 is a laughing stock in England and France no matter how many times Leinster beat Exeter or Scarlets beat Bath. It's a joke league that can only manage to attract the likes of Premier Sports.

Why would we care what the English think of our league? It attracted SKY and SKY wanted to retain the league but were outbid by two sports channels trying to muscle their way into becoming major players in the rugby market. Premier sports is a major player in NRL and super league. Are they joke leagues?

I don't know anything about rugby league sorry.

Premier Sports

You don't seem to know much about anything...

+1

Rugbyfan you yourself said it wouldn't be done and couldn't see it happening hence do you believe there is no solution then? And as I said the league.isn't viewed as badly as you think outside wales.

Anyway.  The truth is I once genuinely felt that the attitudes coming from someone like RugbyFan were indeed the true opinions of the powers that be at the head of all the regions.  And indeed again, I think there was ample evidence that the Regions had the same opinions as their more gloomy fans.... even some of the players couldn't help saying they'd prefer English Premiership.... for the traditions and all that stuff.

But now, I don't really think Rugbyfan's views run so deeply within the Regions.  I think they are coming to the conclusion...slowly...that when they get their systems in order, they can make this new Pro14 version work for them and that in time they can prosper in it.... and maybe even laugh down at their Irish neighbours for a decade or two.

I do think that overall there is a growing confidence about the League and the kinds of players it is helping to produce. Players are coming back to Wales rather than retreating. They want it all...to play for their country but also to play for a team that has real impact at European level.  

Rugbyfan's opinions are I'm sure genuine, heartfelt and well............ if he's like the last guy that shared his opinions so closely, I don't think he'll be remotely moving ground away from them.  But I think they are less popular now within the Regional organisations themselves.

The Welsh regions, given time, will emulate their Irish counterparts.

LordDowlais wrote:The Welsh regions, given time, will emulate their Irish counterparts.

The Scarlets are already there in my mind. Fantastic stadium, play a very exciting and watchable brand of rugby, produce great Welsh players and make very intelligent NWQ signings. Great club, they just need the crowds which I can't understand how they aren't already getting.

LordDowlais wrote:The Welsh regions, given time, will emulate their Irish counterparts.

I agree.

I even say with a little more time... Pro14 will be the most exciting (for neutral observers - and still not the most expensive to run) League in Europe.

LordDowlais wrote:The Welsh regions, given time, will emulate their Irish counterparts.

The Ospreys are already on their way to emulating Ulster, Allen Clarke working his magic there too

LordDowlais wrote:Do any of you actually want to discuss the concerns properly ? Or are you all just happy to keep taking swipes ?

Right. When reffed by an Irish ref Irish teams loose more than they win. You ignore this fact
Irish team win with an Irish ref it's a fix.
Welsh team win with Welsh ref it's no problem.
Decisions made by the pro14 which has representative from all unions and teams /provinces/ regions. It's still a fix for the Irish and all the others stay silent because......?
Welsh constantly bang on about hating the league and wanting to fork off to the English (who don't want them) is fine.
One guy says we should all pull together of fork off, how dare they have a go at the Welsh.
You give a list of Welsh teams loosing and the fans blame the Irish ref due to there own bias and offer it as proof of a fixed league.
When facts are given as to why decisions have been made these facts are "convenience" and not true facts.

And you have the nerve to ask why we don't take you seriously?
Stop crying and take some responsibility. Your team's haven't been as successful as they weren't good enough. Not a fix or conspiracy. Just your team's not being as good as others.

Now fork right off

What a lovely, warm and joyous discussion forum I’ve joined! Whoops.