Sean O'Brien on the Lions

“The first week, we definitely over-trained on the Thursday and maybe the coaches were panicking a little bit about getting the information into us. On the first week [of the first Test], we had a triple [session] day, [the] lads’ legs were heavy on the Thursday and we were playing the All Blacks on Saturday.

“We did nearly a similar thing in the last week. So maybe it’s more [from] a coaching point of view, in terms of taking lessons. Less is more sometimes on a tour like that, rather than trying to pick things up at the end of the week.

“There was probably no need for that but it’s just the way it was managed. We had said it, at the time, and they pulled back a bit. But it’s just about getting that fine balance between players and coaches and making sure the group is ready to rock.”

ebop wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Engine#4 wrote:Neither can I. Sometimes false humility comes off as transparently patronising. It's O'Brien's opinion and nobody here was in camp so can't really disagree.

This

Two teams trying to talk up each other, players trying to talk up opposition when you can see they clearly don't believe it and are reading a script.

SOB's comments are at least genuine.

Billy Vunipola's are a bit daft.

Yeah

It's great when sports star get all tough and talk big and blow smoke up their own bums

After they fail and draw a series

SOB wrote:“Unfortunately some people have focused on what I feel we could have done better instead of what we did well.

“I have nothing but respect for Warren and the whole coaching team, in addition to the rest of the back room staff and squad of players.

“But do I believe we — the players and coaches — could have done better? Yes. Do I believe we could have won the series? Yes. Do I believe the Lions squad in 2021 will be better for this? Yes.

“If we don’t look to build on and improve on the tour to New Zealand how can future Lions squads do better?

“It is a privilege and an honour to be called a British & Irish Lion and I hope this clarifies my position once and for all.”

aucklandlaurie wrote:What did Sid say?

The Lions weren’t as good as most people give them credit for. Our forwards did too much running around and not enough driving. There was too much individualism. There was a vast difference between being a New Zealand half-back in 1971 and being a New Zealand half-back in 1967. In ’67, the forwards were there to control, to give you what we used to call ‘plate ball’. By ’71 the pack had loosened up. I was never certain where the ball was going to pop up from. We’d gone right away from the tight core who controlled the game to a load of individuals who all seemed like frustrated loose forwards.

Our backline was different again from the other Tests, with Wayne Cottrell, Phil Gard and Mick Duncan outside me. We had no hope of developing teamwork to beat the Lions in virtually one training session. Phil Gard looked a useful footballer playing for North Otago, but he and I were complete strangers. He was making his debut in the final Test of a major series. With backs who understood each other’s play – like our backs at North Auckland – we might have rescued things.

LordDowlais wrote:Christ.

The hatred for Warren Gatland from some of our Irish members on here is very unhealthy, even disturbing. In the words of Frozen.

"LET IT GO !!!"

Life is short.

Collapse2005 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Christ.

The hatred for Warren Gatland from some of our Irish members on here is very unhealthy, even disturbing. In the words of Frozen.

"LET IT GO !!!"

Life is short.

Its not hatred Dowlais. Im Irish and dont hate him at all. I think given he was the man in the hot seat he is fair game for some criticism. The Wales players are hardly going to be to ones to pipe up are they?

LordDowlais wrote:Christ.

The hatred for Warren Gatland from some of our Irish members on here is very unhealthy, even disturbing. In the words of Frozen.

"LET IT GO !!!"

Life is short.

He came over to me one day and I swear he was trying to do a job on me mentally, for the next time Wales played Ireland. Mind games were part of what he brought to the table and his track record showed he was incredibly good at playing them.

"Have you noticed how incredibly fit the Welsh boys are?

Then, ahead of the first Test:

"Just to let you know, Alun-Wyn will be playing in the Test. So it's between you and Geoff for the other second-row position".

That was the full extent of the conversation.

ebop wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Christ.

The hatred for Warren Gatland from some of our Irish members on here is very unhealthy, even disturbing. In the words of Frozen.

"LET IT GO !!!"

Life is short.

Its not hatred Dowlais. Im Irish and dont hate him at all. I think given he was the man in the hot seat he is fair game for some criticism. The Wales players are hardly going to be to ones to pipe up are they?

SOB displayed a lack of honour in undermining the coach

And very publicly

Where's the gain for him?

rodders wrote:

ebop wrote:And regarding SOB, who the f**k is he? Gatland wins a series in Australia and draws one in New Zealand. That's successful in my mind. This SOB guy just looks like an idiot.

Well if I recall SOB was the guy on the field who helped the Lions win and draw said series, Gats was the fat fella in the clown suit watching in the stands.

Griff wrote:SOB had a good tour but he wasn't 10/10 in every game. Should look closer to home perhaps.

rodders wrote:

Griff wrote:SOB had a good tour but he wasn't 10/10 in every game. Should look closer to home perhaps.

Maybe he was a bit tired from the triple training session on the Thursday?

ebop wrote:

rodders wrote:

Griff wrote:SOB had a good tour but he wasn't 10/10 in every game. Should look closer to home perhaps.

Maybe he was a bit tired from the triple training session on the Thursday?

Griff wrote:

rodders wrote:

ebop wrote:And regarding SOB, who the f**k is he? Gatland wins a series in Australia and draws one in New Zealand. That's successful in my mind. This SOB guy just looks like an idiot.

Well if I recall SOB was the guy on the field who helped the Lions win and draw said series, Gats was the fat fella in the clown suit watching in the stands.

So shouldn't SOB shoulder some of the blame for not winning 3-0, as he was the one on the pitch and Gatland wasn't. Or will he claim 'it was the the gameplan what done it, it was the gameplan', while in the next breath saying that Sexton and Farrell were good enough themselves to change the gameplan! Maybe SOB should have influened the forwards game plan a bit more. SOB had a good tour but he wasn't 10/10 in every game. Should look closer to home perhaps.

SOB wrote:But coming out of the series with a draw, it was a really good achievement?

“No. No. I think we should have won 3-0 with the players we had, we should have won the series,” O’Brien insists. “And, looking back, and I could be completely wrong, but if we had a little more structure during the weeks, and more of an attack game plan, as such, driven way earlier in the tour, I think we could win 3-0.”

SOB wrote:O’Brien was one of a number of senior players who aired their concern and grievances over the training schedule at the time, but it was too late.

“We did [speak up] at the time, but some of the coaches wanted to get info and they wanted to tick their boxes, and we did discuss it afterwards. Friday’s training was very light but it was too late at that stage. People were trying to recover all day Friday.

SOB wrote:“I think going back a few years, I probably might not have said or had those conversations with the coaches, if you look at the chats I had with Gats, because I was playing well, he entertained me a bit more, and asked for my opinion on things, but if you’re not playing well, he doesn’t really talk to you. That’s just the way it is. I didn’t want the tour to pass by without me speaking up or saying a few messages that I thought was relevant to getting us to perform.

ebop wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Christ.

The hatred for Warren Gatland from some of our Irish members on here is very unhealthy, even disturbing. In the words of Frozen.

"LET IT GO !!!"

Life is short.

Its not hatred Dowlais. Im Irish and dont hate him at all. I think given he was the man in the hot seat he is fair game for some criticism. The Wales players are hardly going to be to ones to pipe up are they?

SOB displayed a lack of honour in undermining the coach

And very publicly

Where's the gain for him?

TightHEAD wrote:I thought the Irish were meant to be a happy go lucky bunch? 

Yet they are always moaning!

TightHEAD wrote:I thought the Irish were meant to be a happy go lucky bunch? 

Yet they are always moaning!

rodders wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:I thought the Irish were meant to be a happy go lucky bunch? 

Yet they are always moaning!

That'll be the weather.

ebop wrote:SOB displayed a lack of honour in undermining the coach

And very publicly

Where's the gain for him?

Rugby Fan wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:What did Sid say?

Going said the coach pushed his players until their ‘brains were fuzzy’

The Lions weren’t as good as most people give them credit for. Our forwards did too much running around and not enough driving. There was too much individualism. There was a vast difference between being a New Zealand half-back in 1971 and being a New Zealand half-back in 1967. In ’67, the forwards were there to control, to give you what we used to call ‘plate ball’. By ’71 the pack had loosened up. I was never certain where the ball was going to pop up from. We’d gone right away from the tight core who controlled the game to a load of individuals who all seemed like frustrated loose forwards.

(On his last point. All Black great number 8 Brian Lochore, was brought out of retirement but asked to play at lock)

He says the coach got selection wrong for the fourth Test.

Our backline was different again from the other Tests, with Wayne Cottrell, Phil Gard and Mick Duncan outside me. We had no hope of developing teamwork to beat the Lions in virtually one training session. Phil Gard looked a useful footballer playing for North Otago, but he and I were complete strangers. He was making his debut in the final Test of a major series. With backs who understood each other’s play – like our backs at North Auckland – we might have rescued things.

rapidsnowman wrote:

ebop wrote:SOB displayed a lack of honour in undermining the coach

And very publicly

Where's the gain for him?

No obvious gain - so maybe he was just being honest, no ulterior motive.

rodders wrote:

rapidsnowman wrote:

ebop wrote:SOB displayed a lack of honour in undermining the coach

And very publicly

Where's the gain for him?

No obvious gain - so maybe he was just being honest, no ulterior motive.

He'd best be careful or he'll be in for a bit of treatment from Gat's eldest sons Sam and Alun wyn in the 6N.

ebop wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

ebop wrote:
Only one of the tests had a decent referee and look how that turned out. When the two corrupt French referees got involved our worst fears played out as expected before the series. We knew they'd be terrible but what transpired at the end of Test 3 was mind blowing. Was this the 'making our own luck' that SOB mentions? Taking advantage of bent referee decisions and scraping together a drawn series?

Those are quite inflammatory accusations.

Those two referees are among the best in the world, far better than the likes of Nigel Owens. New Zealanders don't like them because they actually penalise their players and send them off. Something which gutless referees would never do.

Goodness gracious, that is the single most hilarious thing I've read on here this year

Thanks for that

Collapse2005 wrote:

ebop wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Christ.

The hatred for Warren Gatland from some of our Irish members on here is very unhealthy, even disturbing. In the words of Frozen.

"LET IT GO !!!"

Life is short.

Its not hatred Dowlais. Im Irish and dont hate him at all. I think given he was the man in the hot seat he is fair game for some criticism. The Wales players are hardly going to be to ones to pipe up are they?

SOB displayed a lack of honour in undermining the coach

And very publicly

Where's the gain for him?

Jesus why do Kiwis have to be so intense all the time. Lighten up will ya. Lack of honour. FFS he is not a samuri.

Are the Kiwis jealous or something because they know SOB is leagues better than Sam Cane?

ebop wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

ebop wrote:
Only one of the tests had a decent referee and look how that turned out. When the two corrupt French referees got involved our worst fears played out as expected before the series. We knew they'd be terrible but what transpired at the end of Test 3 was mind blowing. Was this the 'making our own luck' that SOB mentions? Taking advantage of bent referee decisions and scraping together a drawn series?

Those are quite inflammatory accusations.

Those two referees are among the best in the world, far better than the likes of Nigel Owens. New Zealanders don't like them because they actually penalise their players and send them off. Something which gutless referees would never do.

Goodness gracious, that is the single most hilarious thing I've read on here this year

Thanks for that

Sin é wrote:According to Telegraph, Gatland is to seeking a meeting with SOB. They are also disputing the Triple training session on the Thursday!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/09/21/sean-obrien-must-explain-following-attack-lions-demands-head/

aucklandlaurie wrote:I cannot recall reading/hearing these comments of Sid's before, how long after the tour were they made? If it was an extract from his biography (Super Sid) that was written 7 years later which is a lot different to 3 months.

It would be fair to say Ivan wasn’t a great coach, but he was a very nice person, a very caring sort of guy who wanted the best for the team – but he’d been thrown in at the deep end as well, because once Fred Allen retired, I don’t think the New Zealand Rugby Union had much of a succession plan in place. He was just kind of dropped into the head-coach role because he’d been one of the selectors and had been around the team. One of the things he struggled with most was getting his message across. When it came to explaining exactly what he wanted, he would struggle.

After the first Test, we had a bit of a drinking session, and the following day we really paid for it. It started at Kruger Park. We went out into a sun as hot as fifty thousand bastards and Ivan put us through a run. Our manager, Ron Burk, had ripped into us for hitting the grog too much and it was maybe his call that we were put through the hoops. Or it might have been an overreaction to the Test loss. But my God, we hadn’t lost the Test because we weren’t fit or because we were slopping with beer. We’d lost it because the Springboks had out-thought us, planned more intelligently than us and then outplayed us. At Kruger, we deserved a couple of days of relaxation. What happened was unwarranted. It was brutal. It was insane. The players would have appreciated the opportunity to mull over tactics with Ivan and Ron, but there was none of that. The relationship between the management and the players took a sharp downturn.

South Africa won that third Test 14–3. They’d win the fourth Test as well, a 20–17 victory in Johannesburg, where rumours of discontent about Vodanovich cranked up another notch. There was an incident in Potchefstroom that caused rancour in the camp. Grizz Wyllie and his Canterbury mate, the prop Alister Hopkinson, pulled a prank on Vodanovich that cost them their place in the Test side.
The players were standing at the bottom of the hotel stairs having a chat when Vodanovich came rushing through, heading for the revolving doors. For reasons known only to himself, Grizz stuck out a leg and tripped him, and Vodanovich ended up in a heap on the floor.
The coach said that, by way of punishment, no Canterbury player would be selected for the fourth Test. Everybody presumed that Vodanovich was joking, but he was serious. Wyllie and Hopkinson were dropped, as was their Canterbury mate, Fergie McCormick. It caused a rift, and that rift needed to be healed.

lostinwales wrote:

ebop wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

ebop wrote:
Only one of the tests had a decent referee and look how that turned out. When the two corrupt French referees got involved our worst fears played out as expected before the series. We knew they'd be terrible but what transpired at the end of Test 3 was mind blowing. Was this the 'making our own luck' that SOB mentions? Taking advantage of bent referee decisions and scraping together a drawn series?

Those are quite inflammatory accusations.

Those two referees are among the best in the world, far better than the likes of Nigel Owens. New Zealanders don't like them because they actually penalise their players and send them off. Something which gutless referees would never do.

Goodness gracious, that is the single most hilarious thing I've read on here this year

Thanks for that

Well to be honest your original comment on this sounds like 'a good referee is a referee who sees the game as I do'. Which is fair enough as we all have an opinion. Although it should read in full as

'A good referee is a referee who sees the game as I do, as a totally unbiased fan of the All Blacks'

ebop wrote:Well if you like anti-rugby then go defend the calamitous dynamic duo of Poite and Garces

Be my guest

ebop wrote:
Well if you like anti-rugby then go defend the calamitous dynamic duo of Poite and Garces

Be my guest

They were a disgrace and the appointees knew they would be

ebop wrote:Nah, just pedantic anti-rugby lovers

Collapse2005 wrote:No he has a fairly clean record. Only one international ban for punching Pelouse after Pelouse stuck his finger in SOBs bum. Irish players dicipline in general is better than the ABs discipline.

Edit: It was Pape not Pelouse.

ebop wrote:And this one is with French commentary, which I thought was a nice touch considering

TightHEAD wrote:*by Fans I mean on places like this and Social Media, The Irish lads on Tour in NZ were great.

TightHEAD wrote:
+ we would have won in 2009 if it wasn't for ROG. [/color][/i]

mikey_dragon wrote:Imagine if AWJ said this about the Lions, the fallout from the English and Irish on here would be unreal.

Scottrf wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Imagine if AWJ said this about the Lions, the fallout from the English and Irish on here would be unreal.

Wahhhh a story that's not about the Welsh?

The fall out has been quite big. The difference in the Irish have criticised SOB, whereas you wouldn't criticise AWJ if he defecated in your cereal.

Scottrf wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Imagine if AWJ said this about the Lions, the fallout from the English and Irish on here would be unreal.

Wahhhh a story that's not about the Welsh?

The fall out has been quite big. The difference in the Irish have criticised SOB, whereas you wouldn't criticise AWJ if he defecated in your cereal.