Ulster Rugby 2017-18

First topic message reminder :

Rory Best (hamstring)
Marcell Coetzee (knee)
Craig Gilroy (back)
Chris Henry (larynx)
Rob Lyttle (shoulder)
Al O'Connor (concussion)
Jared Payne (headaches)
Dave Shanahan (hamstring)
Nick Timoney (ankle)
Schalk van der Merwe (shoulder)

Cairns and Stewart, wow. Looking forward to seeing how they get on!

Well that was kind of them. 'Give those Ulster lads a sporting chance eh chaps'.

Imagine if all these players were available.

Unavailable for selection:
Peter Browne
Marcell Coetzee
John Cooney
Wiehahn Herbst
Paul Marshall
Kyle McCall
Caleb Montgomery
Jack Owens
Jared Payne
Dave Shanahan
Nick Timoney

JmD wrote:Cairns and Stewart, wow. Looking forward to seeing how they get on!

I second that, good to see Kane back in the side though no vDM isn't a good sign even when he's not out injured

marty2086 wrote:Leinster: (15-9) R Kearney; A Byrne, R O’Loughlin, N Reid, D Kearney; R Byrne, J Gibson-Park; (1-8) J McGrath, J Tracy, T Furlong, D Toner, J Ryan, D Leavy, J Murphy, S O’Brien (capt).


Replacements: (16-23) R Strauss, C Healy, A Porter, R Molony, J Conan; L McGrath, C Marsh, J Larmour.

Nice to see Leinster giving us a chance and playing their 2nd string  

Even their 2nd string is fairly frightening in certain areas. That backrow is sickeningly strong even with the players they're missing.

Their backs looks the weaklink and we need to exploit any opportunities we get.

I don't know what I just watched Connacht and Munster play, but it wasn't rugby.

Don Alfonso wrote:I don't know what I just watched Connacht and Munster play, but it wasn't rugby.

If Jackson ever comes back, I dont think think he'll have too much trouble getting back in to contention for the Ireland10 jersey based on the contenders in that game

Jackson? If I were Peter Nelson, I'd be getting my hopes up.

Even Ian Humphries would have a shout at this stage

Paddy Wallace is dusting off his boots too, saying that the two of them work for Esportif. They could be playing come January

marty2086 wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:I don't know what I just watched Connacht and Munster play, but it wasn't rugby.

If Jackson ever comes back, I dont think think he'll have too much trouble getting back in to contention for the Ireland10 jersey based on the contenders in that game

Jackson will never play for Ulster again and Nelson will never be first choice 10

A NIQ on the way

So direct Geoff I imagine you’re being prophetic and I agree with you.

If Ulster have realised this then at least we’re being realistic. I like Lealiifano. You can argue about if he’s really a 12 but he’s a credit to the badge and in my book that’s the be all and end all. Assuming his heart is still back with the Brumbies we need to think about a long term option at 10.

geoff999rugby wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:I don't know what I just watched Connacht and Munster play, but it wasn't rugby.

If Jackson ever comes back, I dont think think he'll have too much trouble getting back in to contention for the Ireland10 jersey based on the contenders in that game

Jackson will never play for Ulster again and Nelson will never be first choice 10

A NIQ on the way

Is it a project, do you know, Geoff? Ireland as well as Ulster looking shaky at ten.

I'm probably in the minority, but I don't want ulster to sign a project player. I'd rather have ulster sign a quality overseas player. Only problem is that who is available and can ulster ultimately compete with the French and English clubs in signing one

The statements regarding Jackson and Nelson are from what I have been told.

The assessment regarding a NIQ player is an assessment.
Based in part upon need, in part on the fact that Deysel is the only signed up NIQ player definitely on the books for next year.
Also based on the fact that a 2 year contract for someone would be the time needed for the young 10s to mature.

Regarding Project you must remember it is now 5 years (from 1st Jan) and as a consequence you will see a lot less of them.

To be clear Nelson is seen as a valuable player but more as a 15 than a 10 long term.
With Piatau away and Payne looking very iffy he has a future there

Of course the real solution would be one of JJ, Bleydaal, Keatley, Carbery or Bryne coming north but you know that is never going to happen

Another play for Cathal Marsh is probably the best we can hope for. I did read somewhere this week that because of the new residency rules, Nucifora has launched Project IQ. Which is to scour the globe for IQ players, we can only hope he'll turn someone up of quality at 10 but we know what the chances of that are.

If we could get an NIQ ten that can bring on Lowry and Curtis, that would be ideal.

If everyone's healthy, JJ Hanrahan plays for Munster in the B&I Cup. Whatever we were confidently assured  four or so years ago he was going to be, he's not. Jackson's the real deal, He's not. Bleyendaal's not up to much either.

If Jackson is found not guilty, might he go to another province for a fresh start but still try to get in the international team?

Don Alfonso wrote: If we could get an NIQ ten that can bring on Lowry and Curtis, that would be ideal.

That is the favoured internal scenario

Don Alfonso wrote:If everyone's healthy, JJ Hanrahan plays for Munster in the B&I Cup. Whatever we were confidently assured  four or so years ago he was going to be, he's not. Jackson's the real deal, He's not. Bleyendaal's not up to much either.

Agree with that but if by some miracle one of them agree to come north - Nucifora will tie our hand

Don Alfonso wrote:If Jackson is found not guilty, might he go to another province for a fresh start but still try to get in the international team?

Possible but doubtful in my view.
I think Jackson abroad will be an exception to the rule if when Sexton not available

Feisty match so far at Ravenhill brightened by a superb solo try by Jordan Larmour from inside his own half.

Ulster 3-7 Leinster after 20 minutes

Amazingly I think Lacey has actually had a really good game.

Any danger of Ulster getting one of these lineouts right?

What's up with all these football fans booing the kicker? Hope that doesn't become a theme.

We don't deserve to win. We're probably at about 60% line outs.

I think they thought Cairns was blocked from making a tackle. Watching it on TV he was nowhere near being able to stop that try.

Redman wrote:I think they thought Cairns was blocked  from making a tackle. Watching it on TV he was nowhere near being able to stop that try.

I get that sometimes decisions go against us, but it is poor form.

Ulster have done a good few things right but so many things pathetically wrong.
Lineout coach anyone?

Agreed. There's no excuse.

Christ we're playing against 14!

McCloskey has been turned over quite a few times today. Marshall has been really impressive though. Unfortunate Schmidt ignored him.

Don Alfonso wrote:I don't know what I just watched Connacht and Munster play, but it wasn't rugby.

Hey Don. What game are Ulster trying to play this evening?

Complete embarrassment.

Give Muller anything he wants to come coach these lineouts

Nelson was a heroic speedbump there. Not that it mattered in the end. McGrath has massively improved this Leinster side since coming on. Very intelligent player.

In all honesty Leinster left at least 2 tries out there tonight.

Redman wrote:In all honesty Leinster left at least 2 tries out there tonight.

Yeah, they barely had to break a sweat in the second half. Not a good game for us.

Considering who we've lost we didn't do too badly in the first half but it was pathetic in the second half. We're in for yet another crappy season. I'm sure every Ulster fan is sick to death of performances like that, I've had my fill.

And a long trip to SA ahead which provides little opportunity to address a shambolic performance, questions need to be asked of some of the leaders in the team especially when it comes to the lineout

Totally unacceptable.

Couldn't catch the ball, Lineouts a joke (mostly because of appalling throwing but why o why not call them short to Diack)
Cairns was a bunny in the headlights - totally out of his depth - big improvement when Stewart came on.

Ah You had a decent game and along with Stewart one of the very few highlights.
Henry and Best - our old hands were both poor, Christian remains and will always be a 12 at 10

Make no mistake Leinster were poor but we were pathetic

I also am convinced Deysel is a waste of space - Piatau apart we get a totally unacceptable return from the other 4 NIQ players in the squad.
Our poor choices in NIQ is appalling (the Muller, Pienaer, Wanneberg trio apart)

Travelling back from La Rochelle my mate and I decided this will be our last season as ST holders - been around since 1999
The Irish model of centre dictating to Provinces and limiting NIQ has been a brilliant success in that time.
However big money elsewhere means it can no longer do the job - Munster and Ulster will no longer be front line teams in 2-3 years unless the model changes
We need more money, more NIQ players, and players playing for Ireland who play outside Ireland.
The model is creaking and it is about to breakdown completely.

Absolutely, one hundred percent agree Geoff, on all points.
Big Rodders best game in an Ulster shirt but we had no chance with a 9 not delivering and a 10 who's obviously not an out an out 10.
We are screwed this season, our key players are all AWOL and we're left with a skeleton crew. Ulster in crisis? Yep!!!

P.S. Any clue who the NIQ 10 is?

Pete as I said above that is my assessment of what Ulster want to do - we are nowhere near the decision being made
We have reached a position where the odd player here or there is just a token.
Root and branch changes need to be made to the model

Ignoring Ulster woeful performance, am I the only one that felt two of leinsters tries shouldn’t have stood. Toners loopy lob of a pass was forward in lead up to one, and in the other, the chasing player (can’t remember) was in front of D Kearney’s kick.

Either way though, we didn’t deserve that. Line out has me lost for words. Both Best AND Herring.

Didn't see the game. Not sure if I want to. How did the young scrum halves get on?

Really disappointing. Ulster had Best, Henderson and Henry as indigenous Ulstermen in the pack, all captains, yet there would have been more passion in a Buddhist retirement home after lights out.

Still have to force myself to watch the recorded version but can't understand those criticising Cairns. He is fourth choice being forced to start in a massive derby for the first time. He looked to have plenty of potential from where I was sitting and although he made mistakes he wasn't afraid to try to play. He was pumped and that adrenaline undoubtedly was a factor.

At least he looked as though he cared.

Maine man wrote:Didn't see the game. Not sure if I want to. How did the young scrum halves get on?

Cairns was out of his depth it was embarrassing - terrible in every respect.
Bunny in the headlights

Stewart was decent - quick pass, told players to get into position - showed some authority

Thanks geoff. I heard on the grape vine that if Jackson is found innocent, he's off to Wasps.

The Great Aukster wrote:
Still have to force myself to watch the recorded version but can't understand those criticising Cairns. He is fourth choice being forced to start in a massive derby for the first time. He looked to have plenty of potential from where I was sitting and although he made mistakes he wasn't afraid to try to play. He was pumped and that adrenaline undoubtedly was a factor.

At least he looked as though he cared.

Biggest criticism I'd have of Cairns is standing at the breakdown looking like he was daydreaming while Leinsters backrow were jackling over the ball

I thought Stewart was underwhelming, he was playing like Ulster were closing out a win. He was slow getting to rucks and just didn't seem like he was in a hurry to do anything at all

Cairns kicking was poor, he dropped the ball more than most (and that is saying something)

Most of all he looked scared.

Stewart was giving orders and trying to play in a structured fashion.
His passing was decent
The reason, some, and only some, of his passing was slow at the breakdown was because the failure of forwards to get into the correct position to protect the ball.

Whilst I am at it - the more I see/hear about vDM I have to ask why we bothered

Nothing suggest to me he is anything other than average

The Great Aukster wrote:
Still have to force myself to watch the recorded version but can't understand those criticising Cairns. He is fourth choice being forced to start in a massive derby for the first time. He looked to have plenty of potential from where I was sitting and although he made mistakes he wasn't afraid to try to play. He was pumped and that adrenaline undoubtedly was a factor.

At least he looked as though he cared.

He cares so what he should.
I care doesn't make me good enough to play 9 for Ulster.

Regardless of that caring wasn't the issue - if anything being too pumped up was the issue and making silly mistakes as a result was the issue.
Our player cared - the trouble was they played bloody crap, or in some cases weren't good enough, not that they didn't try

There were much much bigger problems than the 2 young 9's, the complete inability of our forwards to get a lineout right being the biggest

geoff999rugby wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:
Still have to force myself to watch the recorded version but can't understand those criticising Cairns. He is fourth choice being forced to start in a massive derby for the first time. He looked to have plenty of potential from where I was sitting and although he made mistakes he wasn't afraid to try to play. He was pumped and that adrenaline undoubtedly was a factor.

At least he looked as though he cared.

He cares so what he should.
I care doesn't make me good enough to play 9 for Ulster.

Regardless of that caring wasn't the issue - if anything being too pumped up was the issue and making silly mistakes as a result was the issue.
Our player cared - the trouble was they played bloody crap, or in some cases weren't good enough, not that they didn't try

Cairns was picked by Gibbes/Peel over Stewart because they must have seen something about him. He has been getting good rep playing for Hinch in a league above Stewart (not Stewart's fault). One adrenalin charged game is simply too little to consign him to the scrapheap. Should Rory Best now be given the heave-ho because he had a shocker?