Ulster Rugby 2017-18

First topic message reminder :

Rory Best (hamstring)
Marcell Coetzee (knee)
Craig Gilroy (back)
Chris Henry (larynx)
Rob Lyttle (shoulder)
Al O'Connor (concussion)
Jared Payne (headaches)
Dave Shanahan (hamstring)
Nick Timoney (ankle)
Schalk van der Merwe (shoulder)

How come the Schools are such a problem when the far and away best Academy (Leinster) takes its players from schools?

Question - why was Henderson an absolute battering ram who got across the gainline with every carry against the likes of Etzebeth and de Jager and yet for Ulster he rarely does the same?

toml wrote:How come the Schools are such a problem when the far and away best Academy  (Leinster) takes its players from schools?

- Lack of competition. Three schools in Ulster are the hot favourites, another three or four are outsiders and the rest are nowhere.
- the top schools can afford the best coaches. RBAI were recruiting a fulltime S & C coach and already have a professional Australian coach.
- Rugby mad parents therefore send their offspring to schools up to 50 miles away widening the gap with their local school. They also know their kids will be in the shop window for higher honours.
- Kids not at the big schools who are good players struggle to shine in weak teams, and the selectors for age grade sides will tend to go for the easy options
- The schools are precious about their rugby players. Players (even those not in the 1st XV) aren't allowed to play for a local club.
- The schools are frightened by player insurance so because the kids have no exposure at club level, the coaches are instructed to minimise contact risk.
- The focus of the top schools on diet / training for a full 12 months before the next Cup campaign together with intensity of the term time training in their most important academic year turns a lot of kids off the game.
- The competitive Ulster Schools based around Belfast usually see most of their pupils go to English and Scottish Universities.
- There is hardly any crossover between GAA and rugby because of political history.

Take you pick!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Question - why was Henderson an absolute battering ram who got across the gainline with every carry against the likes of Etzebeth and de Jager and yet for Ulster he rarely does the same?

Because when you play in a team where multiple players can get over the gainline space is created to make it possible.
However when you are the only forward capable of doing it you can be easily targeted by the defence.
It is not because Henderson doesn't give it a go, it is because most of his teammates aren't good enough.

The Great Aukster wrote:

toml wrote:How come the Schools are such a problem when the far and away best Academy  (Leinster) takes its players from schools?

- Lack of competition. Three schools in Ulster are the hot favourites, another three or four are outsiders and the rest are nowhere.
- the top schools can afford the best coaches. RBAI were recruiting a fulltime S & C coach and already have a professional Australian coach.
- Rugby mad parents therefore send their offspring to schools up to 50 miles away widening the gap with their local school. They also know their kids will be in the shop window for higher honours.
- Kids not at the big schools who are good players struggle to shine in weak teams, and the selectors for age grade sides will tend to go for the easy options
- The schools are precious about their rugby players. Players (even those not in the 1st XV) aren't allowed to play for a local club.
- The schools are frightened by player insurance so because the kids have no exposure at club level, the coaches are instructed to minimise contact risk.
- The focus of the top schools on diet / training for a full 12 months before the next Cup campaign together with intensity of the term time training in their most important academic year turns a lot of kids off the game.
- The competitive Ulster Schools based around Belfast usually see most of their pupils go to English and Scottish Universities.
- There is hardly any crossover between GAA and rugby because of political history.

Take you pick!

Spot on +1

marty2086 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:
3. Grow a pair with respect to talking to the IRFU. Only Cunningham was prepared to stand up to them over Pienaer - both Kiss and Logan rolled over and let Nucifora tickle their tummies.

Maybe Logan and Kiss knew better than to fight a battle they weren't going to win? Do you honestly think there was ever a hope the IRFU were ever going to back down?

Even if we weren't going to win you have start somewhere and make your dissatisfaction known.

As I said it will be a long hard road, which I don't think we will even go down, but we should at least try

No surprises, but looks like another small step in a tediously slow process.

Jackson pleaded 'Not Guilty', Olding's turn on Friday.

Judge recommending a review of the case for 15th December. Not sure what that means or if its significant or pretty common.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41997572

Im sure I wasn't the only one whose jaw hit the floor when a local radio news broadcast read out he pleaded guilty

Im sure I wasn't the only one whose jaw hit the floor when a local radio news broadcast read out he pleaded guilty

Did they correct it?

rapidsnowman wrote:

Im sure I wasn't the only one whose jaw hit the floor when a local radio news broadcast read out he pleaded guilty

Did they correct it?

They did pretty quickly but wasn't a great mistake to make

They finished the news though with the announcement of Ireland not winning the WC for 2023 and sent it to sports who started with the story that the announcement was imminent, not their finest broadcast to say the least

Well, in a country where there still a place for Hugo Duncan on the airwaves, it isn't worst people will hear!

Rumours we're talking to Marty Moore.

It would be such a massive thing to sign somebody that calibre who originated at another province. May make some others start to consider it.
I’ll believe it when I see it though!

Never got our Irish qualified backrower we hoped was happening. And looks like despite Deysel, our need in the back row is still as great as it was.

He's complete out of the Irish reckoning at Wasps, presumably he wants to get back into the shop window. Good. Ambitious.

He'll be welcomed here like some kind of superhero. Perhaps he'll tell that to his fellow Leinstermen and the floodgates will open

So with a game on Friday night and the temperatures set to plummet will the Ravespan grounds staff be bringing in their hairdryers to keep the pitch from it's usual yearly freeze.
Also according to Mr Kiss we have 22 players in total who are unavailable. Is this accurate?
Perhaps we'd be better off hoping for a big freeze until we have some players available

Just read that Edinburgh have signed Simon Hickey from Bordeaux, can't remember if someone speculated on here or if I read it about him but is he IQ?

This was just tweettered on Ulster's tweety thingy

"@OKissy: ‘@CLealiifano will play 12 this week and will captain the side"

No Payne, no McCloskey (has he made the bench for Ireland or just a tackle bag)
Trying Nelson between Cooney and Lealiifano by the sound of it.
Like the look at that - play maker 12 and his best position to boot.

Some interesting titbits on The Other Forum from some of the aul’ hands that went to a Meet the Academy Coaches/Players night yesterday. Seems most of the more hysterical, smartarse posters didn’t go. Interesting, that.

Kieran Campbell and Willie Anderson were in attendance with Jonny Stewart and Adam McBurney, Les Kiss was there as well, with Trimble and Bowe in attendance.

You can easily go and read their own posts on the dreaded Other Site. But I thought it might make an interesting context to the comments, frustration and supposition that go on here.

NB – there may be semi-hopeful hints of improvement or a recognition that things need addressed. If you’ve already decided you don’t or won’t believe any good news, do yourself, me and everyone else a favour and don’t bother your hole reading it.

_ _


“KC gave a presentation of the academy the pathways into it and what each player has to do and what is required of them. Willie explained that he looked after the back 5 forwards, Barney was looking after the front rowers with KC and Toppers looking after the backs. Willie was also tasked to find backrow players who were dogs.
There was then questions to the panel about the AI's and the impact of the Ulster lads who were in the squad. Willie also wants to see a Ulster team filled with Ulstermen.
Finally there was time for possibly 3 questions from the supporters, 2 of which Kiss managed to answer with completely different answers…
Adam McBurney is fast becoming my favourite player, he came through the club system, 1st with Randalstown and then with Ballymena... Willie said he is a player with real dog who won't take a step back, this was confirmed by Trimble who told the story that a couple of seasons back "Burney" had been down with the U20 Ireland squad training with the Ireland senior squad, within 20 minutes he had been fighting with both Sexton and Rab Kearney.....Trimble said to himself at the time that the Ulster supporters are going to love McBurney”.

“I was at the presentation last evening and was impressed to the extent that the Ulster representation at Irish under age level was growing year on year and Ulster second in providing talent after Leinster. While there is significant inputs to produce well rounded individuals it was stressed unless they met their challenges they would be dropped from the programme. Anderson also majored on playing for the shirt and certainly wants to keep that focus. Having listened to the presentations I was concerned the players in the programme were not playing enough rugby. Campbell confirmed to me later they are playing a minimum of 25 games per year. he also indicated they were not getting enough exposure to the" hard nuts" in the leagues and they were working with the IRFU to try to put this in place.
If its any consolation to the doubters they saying there is good talent coming through.”

“Spoke with WA after and he hoped that a new A league could be started, he also said that getting academy players into the seniors could do with a bit of work...”

“Willie's opinion, fwiw - Ulster's academy system is the best of the 4 provinces - he wouldn't have joined otherwise.
Connacht don't really have an academy - they settle for Leinster academy rejects.
Munster's academy isn't functioning - it's not good enough, but they still find players who will play for the red shirt.
Leinster's academy relies on numbers - they have far more players coming through which has made them the most successful, but still players don't realise their full potential. They have a far larger pool of players from schools and clubs in Leinster
Ulster's academy is the best because the systems in place are ones to get the very best out of the players coming through. The numbers aren't as high as Leinster's but the success rate will be higher. Ulster also makes better use of clubs to catch players who didn't get caught in the schools system, or develop later having dropped out of academy or having never been in it.
BTW -he likes mongrels -6'6" mongrels. That's what Les Kiss told him to go out and find, and turn into rugby players. Apparently you find them out in the country, not in the city. Donegal was such place where he found one. In times gone past, we wouldn't necessarily have looked in Donegal
I think that sums it up - not my thoughts (I try not to have any) - Willie Anderson's. Go argue with him if you so desire.”

Really great post Don.

It's a results business which Campbell and the rest will be judged on medium to long term but what is reassuring is they seem to trying new ideas.

Word is vDM is going to be on the bench this Friday

Anderson is spouting a party-line rather than facts. Ulster are by some distance the weakest provincial academy. Guys stay there for years and then give up rugby before ever getting a senior cap. The identification of talent through the twin track of schools and clubs is patently flawed and a waste of resources.
Was Willie able to keep a straight face whilst relaying this nonsense?

Who is n our Academy who has been there for years without earning a senor cap? Mattie Rea? McBurney? Lyttle? Timoney? Stockdale? Andrew?

Who do you specifically have in mind, and when did they enter the Academy?

Don Alfonso wrote:Who is n our Academy who has been there for years without earning a senor cap? Mattie Rea? McBurney? Lyttle? Timoney? Stockdale? Andrew?

Who do you specifically have in mind, and when did they enter the Academy?

He meant Billy Dardis....no wait....he was in the Leinster academy

Must have been Ian Fitzpatrick, 4 years in the Academy and 0 appearances. No wait, that was Leinster again

In all seriousness guys like Donnan and Taggart have left and spent a few years in the academy but it happens everywhere. It doesn't automatically mean the academy is rubbish

As Willie said, Leinster have sheer numbers on their side. It has worked in Ulsters favour with the like s of Timoney and Shanahan coming north for opportunity after missing out on contracts with Leinster

ULSTER ACADEMY

NAME           POSITION DOB                YEAR
Rory Butler           Centre        11/03/1997 2
Alexander Clarke   Hooker 02/07/1998 1
Peter Cooper     Prop       22/01/1997 3
Angus Curtis   Outhalf        26/03/1998 2
Matthew Dalton   Second row 16/11/1998 1
Joe Dunleavy   Flanker 22/12/1998 1
Aaron Hall           Back row 26/06/1998 2
James Hume   Centre       07/09/1998 1
Greg Jones   Number 8 13/01/1996 1
Michael Lowry   Outhalf         0/08/1998       1
Adam McBurney   Hooker        05/09/1996 2
Zack McCall   Hooker 10/02/1995 2
John McCusker   Second row 06/07/1998 1
Eric O'Sullivan   Prop         30/11/1995 1
Tom O'Toole   Prop         23/09/1998 1
Marcus Rea   Back row 08/09/1997 2
Jack Regan   Second row 09/05/1997 1
Jonathon Stewart   Scrumhalf 20/02/1998 2
Nick Timoney   Back row 01/08/1995 3

Players in bold have their first senior cap.

Last year's Academy players who are now on full contracts are David Busby, Aaron Cairns, Ross Kane, Rob Lyttle, Tommy O'Hagan and Jack Owens. All have caps except for O'Hagan, who's a prop and would typically be blooded later.


Kieran Campbell has been in charge for two years. Anderson in his role for less, I think? He is in the middle of setting his stamp on the Academy. So who has he brought in that has been a disaster?

Sorry, I spent ten minutes formatting that and re-formatting it and it still looks weird. Jonny Stewart was on the bench, also, against Leinster, but didn't come on, did he?

Also – hold on to your hats!

Ten new entrants into the Academy this year, apparently (although I count eleven in first year?)

“Big Four Belfast Schools” – Hume, Lowry (Inst); Dalton (BRA), O’Toole (Campbell). No Methody.

Other schools – Clarke (Ballymena Academy).

Clubs – Dunleavy (Letterkenny/City of Derry/ now Malone); McCusker (Rainey OB RFC ).

Down South – Regan; Jones; O’Sullivan

South Africa – Angus Curtis


So yeah - they’re totally not looking anywhere other than the usual Belfast schools.

And the Under 19s:

BIG FOUR:
Niall Armstrong (Royal Belfast Academical Institution)
David Lyttle (Royal Belfast Academical Institution)
Neil Saulters (Royal Belfast Academical Institution)
Matthew Crowther (Campbell College, Belfast)
Oisin Kiernan (Campbell College)
Jamie McCartney (Campbell College, Belfast)
6

OTHER GRAMMAR SCHOOLS:
Azur Allison (Ballymena Academy)
Bruce Houston (Ballymena Academy)
Oisin Jordan (Ballymena Academy)
Angus Kernohan (Ballymena Academy)
Stewart Moore (Ballymena Academy)
Ben Savage (Ballymena Academy)
Mark Thompson (Ballymena Academy)
Stephen Moore (Sullivan Upper School)
Andrew McConnell (Sullivan Upper School)
Andrew Weir (Sullivan Upper School)
Max Bailie (Coleraine Grammar School)
Zac Kerr (Bangor Grammar School)
JJ McKee (Antrim Grammar School)
13

SECONDARY SCHOOLS:
Jonny Hunter (Wallace High School)
Jamie Manderson (Wallace High School)
Jack Lewis (Ballyclare High School)
Josh Young (Ballyclare High School)
Ben Heath (Dromore High School)
Claytan Milligan (Down High School)
Calum Smyth (Sperrin Integrated College)
7

CLUBS:
Michael O'Neill (Rainey OB RFC)
Paul McGookin (Ballyclare RFC)
Jack McIntosh (Rainey OB RFC)
Evin Crummie (City of Armagh RFC)
Callum Harkin (Malone RFC)
5

OTHER:
Jack Walters (Irish Exiles)


Still work to be done at this level, clearly (as indeed there is at each level, in fairness). We rely much too heavily on the grammar schools. Especially Ballymena Academy!

Worthy of note, however, is that there are more players from secondary schools than the Belfast Big Four. And only one less from the clubs system (although it is still clearly far too few). There are a number of reasons for this - the S&C at grammar schools, them being able to afford the best coaches and so on. Needs to change and progress.

But it's not the picture that has been painted on this forum. The reality is, as always, much more complicated and nuanced. And genuinely seems to bear out that the change is happening.

I'm done for the night. Sweet dreams.

marty2086 wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Who is n our Academy who has been there for years without earning a senor cap? Mattie Rea? McBurney? Lyttle? Timoney? Stockdale? Andrew?

Who do you specifically have in mind, and when did they enter the Academy?

He meant Billy Dardis....no wait....he was in the Leinster academy

Must have been Ian Fitzpatrick, 4 years in the Academy and 0 appearances. No wait, that was Leinster again

In all seriousness guys like Donnan and Taggart have left and spent a few years in the academy but it happens everywhere. It doesn't automatically mean the academy is rubbish

As Willie said, Leinster have sheer numbers on their side. It has worked in Ulsters favour with the like s of Timoney and Shanahan coming north for opportunity after missing out on contracts with Leinster

Remember Harrison Brewer? He was going to, like, totally redefine how rugby is played, roysh?

Actually Leinster "developed" him from back row to centre, which proved a massive waste of time and energy, before he called it quits and went back to NZ, where his family is from, to play club rugby. In the back row.

Fishing for Neanderthal Homo sapien hybrids in Donegal?

Well, I hope the shark cages don't leak when their teeth are being examined.

Don - it's good to see that they are making changes, but is that not the point? This is a recent change and shows that Ulster Rugby are attempting to deal with the issues. But it's a bit pompous to turn and mock those who have pointed out the problem now that they might be dealing with it. Have the previous five years been such an even spread in the academy? Many forwards getting capped? No.

Don Alfonso wrote:

Remember Harrison Brewer? He was going to, like, totally redefine how rugby is played, roysh?

Actually Leinster "developed" him from back row to centre, which proved a massive waste of time and energy, before he called it quits and went back to NZ, where his family is from, to play club rugby. In the back row.

Yeah, just awful. Good thing they had Leavy, van der Flier, Timmins, Deegan, Doris and Josh Murphy to make up for the mistake.

Then again, maybe Ulster could grab one of the above who won't make it onto the Leinster team.

Well, they tried to convert Brewer because they had produced zero good centres since D'Arcy and BOD until Ringrose. Meanwhile we had produced quite a number.

What did you make of the Meet the Players Academy night?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Don - it's good to see that they are making changes, but is that not the point? This is a recent change and shows that Ulster Rugby are attempting to deal with the issues. But it's a bit pompous to turn and mock those who have pointed out the problem now that they might be dealing with it. Have the previous five years been such an even spread in the academy? Many forwards getting capped? No.

No it's not pompous. It's an attempt to balance the long, sustained wail on here about how awful everything is that I find immensely tedious and, frankly, simply divorced from reality.

There's posts above saying "nothing will change until..." Things are changing. Slowly. But it takes time. Campbell was appointed two years ago. This change has not started cause someone posted an analysis on here last week. It still has a long way to go, and I doubt we'll ever produce as much talent as Leinster. According to those reports, the Academy forwards coach stood up and said there are problems getting our forwards through to the senior team. The head of the Academy said we need to get our Academy lds playing the "hard nuts" in the clubs. There are people crowing the same thing on here with the attitude that they just perfected nuclear fission.

What do you think of the actual numbers? The actual names? Last night I posted a list of our Academy, a breakdown of where the new intake as come from and our U19s breakdown, as well as a long report (second-hand) of what was said at that night on Monday. One post dismissing everything said by a well-respected coach by someone who wasn't there (open to correction) and one post all about a throw-away comment about Harrison Brewer.

Don Alfonso wrote:Well, they tried to convert Brewer because they had produced zero good centres since D'Arcy and BOD until Ringrose. Meanwhile we had produced quite a number.

What did you make of the Meet the Players Academy night?

I didn't go, but it sounds like they are addressing some of the issues. I hope that is the case.

Don Alfonso wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Don - it's good to see that they are making changes, but is that not the point? This is a recent change and shows that Ulster Rugby are attempting to deal with the issues. But it's a bit pompous to turn and mock those who have pointed out the problem now that they might be dealing with it. Have the previous five years been such an even spread in the academy? Many forwards getting capped? No.

No it's not pompous. It's an attempt to balance the long, sustained wail on here about how awful everything is that I find immensely tedious and, frankly, simply divorced from reality.

There's posts above saying "nothing will change until..." Things are changing. Slowly. But it takes time. Campbell was appointed two years ago. This change has not started cause someone posted an analysis on here last week. It still has a long way to go, and I doubt we'll ever produce as much talent as Leinster. According to those reports, the Academy forwards coach stood up and said there are problems getting our forwards through to the senior team. The head of the Academy said  we need to get our Academy lds playing the "hard nuts" in the clubs. There are people crowing the same thing on here with the attitude that they just perfected nuclear fission.

What do you think of the actual numbers? The actual names? Last night I posted a list of our Academy, a breakdown of where the new intake as come from and our U19s breakdown, as well as a long report (second-hand) of what was said at that night on Monday. One post dismissing everything said by a well-respected coach by someone who wasn't there (open to correction) and one post all about a throw-away comment about Harrison Brewer.

But the output of our academy has been awful, particularly in terms of forwards, which is why they are looking for "6'6" mongrels". It sounds to me like they are acknowledging a lot of the problems we have been discussing on here and are trying to address it. It's rich to then jump in and say "you see, I told you things were fine" after they've literally just announced plans to rectify the issues.

What about the numbers/names? It looks good on paper and it looks like they are addressing prior concerns. How does that undo the previous 5-10 years of our lacklustre academy, which is what people have been complaining about?

I'm sorry, is my posting about what is happening in the Academy today, he current crop of players and the change in their processes getting in the way of your complaining about the past five to ten years' management?

That is exactly my point. "Why talk about what's happening now when we can moan about how other stuff hasn't worked previously?"


NB - I never said anything was "fine". It's clearly not - that's a straw man argument. They weren't "announcing plans" - they have been talking about what they've been doing (with debatable success, admittedly). [in fact I've been searching for their trawl they did for tall youngsters outside the rugby heartlands from several years ago - it was the year before[?] Leinster did similar with their Route 6"6 initiative, but I can't find it.]

Anyway, that's me done with this. I'm all moaned out.

Any whispers on the team for Friday? Anyone else concerned it might me Marshall-Cooney-Lealifano?

Don Alfonso wrote:Anyway, that's me done with this. I'm all moaned out.

Any whispers on the team for Friday? Anyone else concerned it might me Marshall-Cooney-Lealifano?

Or Cooney, Nelson, Leali'ifano (or is Nelson on the lengthy injury list?)

With Lealiifano confirmed to be heading back to Oz in January as planned then perhaps this will begin our preparations for his replacement. Cooney or Nelson? Nelson or Cooney?
Either way we're royally screwed for the business end of the season as far as the 10 position goes.

Why doesn't Rugby ...at Provincial Level or direct from IRFU level ... do more TV promotional/TV ad stuff?
I mean you seriously don't have to be always trying to sell cars, perfumes or crisps to pay for promotional ads to keep your product in the eye of those that might not readily turn on a TV to watch the sport?  I mean catching the attention of younger boys/girls in homes where rugby might never be watched in its own right.

I'm reminded of those army campaigns - show some of the action in cinematic beauty, tell the audience the kind of athletes the game likes and then say: "Join us.  Share the experience.  Get the schidt knocked out of you by bigger lads than yourselves charging you down at carwrecking speeds.  Have 20 operations on broken bones before you hit thirty.  The spice, the action, the war, the blood, the fury, the Joy, the Victory"

I wonder if the Ulster squad might need to watch this video about when people do or do not want a cup of tea...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ&feature=youtu.be

The likes of WA needs 3-5 years to be proved right or wrong to some extent. His comments and the mix of recruits all look and sound promising. I hope it works as an Ulster producing homegrown forwards can only be positive for the Irish set up as well.

He needs to change peoples attitudes towards the ulster academy. Bigging up their new structures, approach, recruits is great. The true validation will come from getting quality senior players out of the academy down the line.

Distilling Leinster down to volume, Connacht down to rejects and Munster down to disfunctional could be seen as a bit glib/crass. I'd hazard a guess that those provincial academys do some things quite well, notes should be taken and certain aspects adopted.

clivemcl wrote:I wonder if the Ulster squad might need to watch this video about when people do or do not want a cup of tea...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ&feature=youtu.be

What if there were two cups of tea and you couldn't say no because one of the cups was already in your mouth......being drunk.

Yeah, Bandwagon, I doubt he put it quite like that. Or hope not, anyway. That's just how they put it on the Other Forum.

To be honest, it's hard to deride Connacht as having an Academy of Leinster rejects when we just brought in Jones, O'Sullivan and Regan. Bit hypocritical.  But what's very, very noticeable is that there are MANY less IQ English lads. Not that I have a problem with that per se, but it is indicative of where our Academy was three, four, five years ago. If lads from down South are happy to come up here to give it a rattle, that's fantastic. Because previously they wouldn't have. I wonder how talented lads who are stuck in a logjam at their home province will look at the likes of O'Connor and Timoney in years to come. Obviously the more Ulster natives the better, but young lads from all over Ireland being prepared to come here will be a huge boon. Not only in terms of encouraging others to cross the border, but possibly also encouraging Nationalists from here to join up. I noticed there's a few lads in the U18s Club side from Lettekenny and a few from Virginia - let's hope that keeps up as well.

I would like to see the numbers and percentages of Academy players from different provinces who make a success of themselves at each level.

Dow earned - what - one cap? Timoney and Rea have already comfortably passed that. McBurney's going to pass it this week, hopefully. Even Joyce, the "success" of that crop, only earned a handful.

Don Alfonso wrote:I'm sorry, is my posting about what is happening in the Academy today, he current crop of players and the change in their processes getting in the way of your complaining about the past five to ten years' management?

That is exactly my point. "Why talk about what's happening now when we can moan about how other stuff hasn't worked previously?"


NB - I never said anything was "fine". It's clearly not - that's a straw man argument. They weren't "announcing plans" - they have been talking about what they've been doing (with debatable success, admittedly). [in fact I've been searching for their trawl they did for tall youngsters outside the rugby heartlands from several years ago - it was the year before[?] Leinster did similar with their Route 6"6 initiative, but I can't find it.]

Are you being intentionally dull? You are criticising people for complaining about something that is only now being addressed. In other words, Ulster Rugby must have agreed that those problems existed and that they are now planning to fix it. That happened five minutes ago. Feel free to criticise those people when the problems are actually ironed out, otherwise get off your high horse.

You think they came up with the plan five minutes ago? That's why the Academy is already looking very different? Is Doctor Who on the staff? There was a meet n' greet - that's why you're hearing about it now. It's already been underway for a while and you can see it in the make-up of the Academy. I daresay if I hadn't posted this, you'd be none the wiser, because you never look beyond the narrative of keening, kneejerk hysteria. Which you can go back to.

Sorry, that's unnecessarily snarky. But this kind of post is EXACTLY why I put the NB in my first post. Because I knew what was coming. Let's agree to disagree.

Don Alfonso wrote:You think they came up with the plan five minutes ago? That's why the Academy is already looking very different? Is Doctor Who on the staff? There was a meet n' greet - that's why you're hearing about it now. It's already been underway for a while and you can see it in the make-up of the Academy. I daresay if I hadn't posted this, you'd be none the wiser, because you never look beyond the narrative of keening, kneejerk hysteria. Which you can go back to.

Oh, you mean the information that you copied and pasted from the Ulster fan forum that I often frequent? Good job.

Anyway, it's been a recent change, Don, as you well know.

I guess I don’t believe anyone needs to be offered more than one cup of tea at a time anyway!