Ulster Rugby 2017-18

First topic message reminder :

Rory Best (hamstring)
Marcell Coetzee (knee)
Craig Gilroy (back)
Chris Henry (larynx)
Rob Lyttle (shoulder)
Al O'Connor (concussion)
Jared Payne (headaches)
Dave Shanahan (hamstring)
Nick Timoney (ankle)
Schalk van der Merwe (shoulder)

Ulster Rugby team to play Harlequins, Sunday 10th December, Twickenham Stoop, 1.00pm:
(1-8): C Black, R Herring, W Herbst, A O'Connor, K Treadwell, I Henderson (captain), S Reidy, N Timoney;
(9-15): J Cooney, C Lealiifano; J Stockdale, S McCloskey, T Bowe, C Gilroy, C Piutau.

Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, R Kane, M Rea, C Henry, P Marshall, P Nelson, L Ludik.

Les needs a good, solid boot up the hole.

So what's your side like for the Quins game? Are you lads expecting a win or a close game?

Quins form is somewhat erratic - normally following a good performance with absolute dross.
Quins missing Horwell and Collier.

We are weak at prop and 13
The backrow is better than I feared but still inferior to Quins.
Our back three could do you serious damage but will they see the ball ?

Our defensive formation though is our biggest weakness.
I'll be pleasantly surprised if we are within 2 scores.
I fear shelling 40 - 50
We have let in over 90 points, in the last 3 games against sides that are, quite frankly, little better than dross

Some thing that the reason Trimble is not playing isn't poor training form but like Cave he thinks
Kiss is an idiot and has also spoken it to publically.

I see our new superstar pudding LH is missing again

Whoever signed that guy should sack themselves

In fairness I wouldn't turn out in that weather either.

Ulster the only side who sign soft Saffers

Gibbes really has done nothing with the club since he's joined. Will he go before the end of the year?

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Gibbes  really has done nothing with the club since he's joined. Will he go before the end of the year?

Looks like a man who didn't get exactly what he signed up for.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Gibbes  really has done nothing with the club since he's joined. Will he go before the end of the year?

That not fair.

He has only been here 5 minutes, has a very underpowered set of forwards to work with and is working for a DoR who is, by and large, not respected by the players.

Also, probably, responsible for getting Moore and Murphy to sign.

Isnt Lambie capped for SA? That would make him NIE.

Pot Hale wrote:Isnt Lambie capped for SA?  That would make him NIE.

Not a problem for Ulster we will only have, at most 2 NIE's next year (1 if Coetzee doesn't regain fitness)

Wont be Lambie, unless Racing cancel his 4 year contract, we definitely wont be buying him out

Surely VDM, Coetzee and Deysel are all currently signed up for next season Geoff. That would leave a space. Id hope VDM isn't about though

What’s the odds on Leali’ifano giving his Wallaby team-mate, Quade Cooper, a positive report now that Cooper has been shown the door by Brad Thorn?

Standulstermen wrote:Surely VDM, Coetzee and Deysel are all currently signed up for next season Geoff. That would leave a space. Id hope VDM isn't about though

vDM is NIQ not NIE i.e the last of the 3 year 'projects'.

So that leaves us with Deysel and, if fit, Coetzee.
Hence 1, maybe 2 NIE slots free

geoff999rugby wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Surely VDM, Coetzee and Deysel are all currently signed up for next season Geoff. That would leave a space. Id hope VDM isn't about though

vDM is NIQ not NIE i.e the last of the 3 year 'projects'.

So that leaves us with Deysel and, if fit, Coetzee.
Hence 1, maybe 2 NIE slots free d

Didn’t realise that with VDM. Fair enough so. We quite possibly will need a 10 and a versatile back at any rate, assuming Deysel and Coetzee are both fit to go.

Pot Hale wrote:What’s the odds on Leali’ifano giving his Wallaby team-mate, Quade Cooper, a positive report now that Cooper has been shown the door by Brad Thorn?

Please not Cooper. Great player, albeit flakey but he screams high maintenance. I'd rather we steer clear of players who have their own Controversies section on their Wikipedia page.

9 pointsclear with two minutes left and Henderson takes the shot at goal rather than a chance at a drive for the line??

Ah well, better from Ulster than we’ve seen in awhile eh?

Maybe we should import a snow machine

Well played Ulster.

Did my eyes deceive me or was Tim Visser's jersey clean at the final whistle?

Don't think there was a bad performance from any one on the Ulster side, Timoney looked good at 8 and made some good carried and Henry really added to the team when he came on

If Robshaw and Care are out as they likely will be on Friday that will be big losses for Quins

One thing's for sure Cooney earned his paycheck today, he was at the heart of it for Ulster. Even tried tackling that huge No 8 a few times.

Friday will be interesting, our defence was helped by the fact it was tough to go wide today. Boys dug deep though and put in a lot of effort today.

Chat from a friend who’s a Quins fan is they’re out and will be sending a 2nd string side to us for Friday.

Ulster Just adapted to the conditions a lot faster than Quins. In the first half kicking was the only option with swirling snow but Quins took time to realise that. Similarly in the 2nd half they booted it a lot not seeming to realise conditions were much better and you could play a bit more rugby. That game management really won the day. That, and we had kickers across our back line.

Thought Timoney looked good, Henderson impressive. Did think McCloskey had a few tackles which he didn’t get pinged but could have been.

Was it just me or did we actually ruck quite well today?
Have to say cooney held on to that big fella like a true warrior today. I would have lay down and hoped I slowed him down enough for someone else to deal with.
And did Mike brown try and start a fight with big Stu when we scored in the corner?

clivemcl wrote:9 pointsclear with two minutes left and Henderson takes the shot at goal rather than a chance at a drive for the line??

Ah well, better from Ulster than we’ve seen in awhile eh?

Unless we had three trys why play for the two minutes when you can just watch someone line up a kick ?

Even if we went for lineout and lost it would be unlikely Quinn’s would make it up pitch to score without stoppage. Even if they did they would have only achieved a LBP. Could that have been crucial? I haven’t looked at the group closely in fairness. I’d have thought another try was relatively risk free to go for, would have pushed confidence even further and helped more in potential points difference.

Mainly though I just wanted to see us back ourselves and be more ruthless.

Going for the corner or having a pop at the three points was pretty irrelevant either way. A losing bonus point wouldn't change the fact that Quins were out and the three point we took will likely make zero difference as it is incredibly unlikely it will come down to point difference.

I'm glad we took the three as it showed a bit of ruthlessness that the game was ours and we decided to kill it instead of being ambitious with the lineout.

Cooney has been a great addition to Ulster. Steered the ship well today. As did Keatley yesterday for Munster.

Pot Hale wrote:Cooney has been a great addition to Ulster.  Steered the ship well today. As did Keatley yesterday for Munster.  

Cooney has been quite exceptional, man of the match today and has been so composed and accurate in every performance for Ulster. This perhaps makes the decision that he wasn't called up by Ireland all the more puzzling. If we can get the same level of commitment out of Marty Moore and Jordi Murphy then the idea that Ulster can't sign quality players from the South will be put to bed.

Don't know if you guy's seen this but Ali Birch one of our former players has been forced to walk away from rugby after a number of concussions. Really helps you remember that these guys are doing their bodies real damage out there. Also really helps you understand guys who want to take money rather than worry about International honors etc

neilthom7 wrote:Don't know if you guy's seen this but Ali Birch one of our former players has been forced to walk away from rugby after  a number of concussions.  Really helps you remember that these guys are doing their bodies real damage out there.  Also really helps you understand guys who want to take money rather than worry about International honors etc

Sad to hear Neil. Always liked him as a player. Athletic but also abrasive. Best wishes and a speedy recovery.

On the money side, most football clubs can probably match the salaries which Real and Barcelona pay. If Liverpool wanted to pay Suarez or Coutinho the earth they could. In rugby it is quite different. You can literally earn x2 what Irish teams pay and x4, x5 or more what Southern Hemisphere clubs can pony up. Piutau talking about his family commitments and Lam discussing the loss of his father really hits home to you what these guys need to balance up. In a number of instances they're the main bread winner for entire sections of their family, can't fault them for wanting to security for their love ones. In Piutau's case it's especially acute. It's cost him the chance to win World Cups. Sad that some players are put in positions where they have to choose been their families and their careers. C'est la vie I guess.

Only saw extended highlights but it looked like the best performance from Ulster in a good while in awful conditions.

Great result in any case, 5 points next weekend could see us with a decent chance of a QF place yet.

10 points from 3 games could see us through, 11 points should guarantee it.

If we can beat Quins on Friday and La Rochelle take another 5 from Wasps it should put Wasps out and La Rochelle through to the QFs meaning we play two teams who might not have much to play for

marty2086 wrote:10 points from 3 games could see us through, 11 points should guarantee it.

If we can beat Quins on Friday and La Rochelle take another 5 from Wasps it should put Wasps out and La Rochelle through to the QFs meaning we play two teams who might not have much to play for

10 points will be tough though. Assuming 5 points against an understrength Quins, a losing bonus in the other 2 games is possible but we need a win from Rochelle at home or Wasps away. Even if they have nothing to play for I think either of those will be very difficult.

P.S. Should Henderson have gone for the try at the end? We're never going through by right so if teams are tied on say 18 points is it not done on tries scored?

No one with 19 points has failed to qualify for the QFs in the ERCC format and only one has missed out with 18 points, that of course was Ulster two years ago

The qualification rankings for a tie are

Where teams remain tied and/or have not played each other in the competition (i.e. are from different pools) 1.The club with the best aggregate points difference from the pool stage.
2.If equal, the club that scored the most tries in the pool stage.
3.If equal, the club with the fewest players suspended in the pool stage.
4.If equal, the drawing of lots will determine a club's ranking.

Henderson made the only sensible decision open to him and that was to go for the posts.

The only scenario where this wouldn't have been the right option was if Ulster were going for the try bonus. That being impossible there was absolutely no point in kicking for the corner.
Taking the kick was the smart move as it improved Ulster's PD, whereas a kick to the corner is rarely converted into points. Why throw away three points?
Ulster were also receiving the restart so had an outside chance of adding more points if they didn't just want to finish the game.
Taking the goal, copper fastened the result. A missed touch kick or turnover could result in a converted Quins try with enough time for a restart. Why risk the result at all?
The forwards had already done more than enough work in the game, so no need to flog them further in pursuit of a meaningless try when the penalty kick was a welcome breather and took time out of the game. Why increase the risk of an injury with so short a turnaround to the next game?

As it's points difference that's takes precedence over number of tries scored, the security of nailing three points is far more important than having a go for five and potentially losing seven. Henderson was spot on with that decision and deserves praise for it.

Bowe to miss out on Friday with a hamstring injury, Marshall is still out so will be interesting to see who slots into 13. Chance for Cave to step up?

... or Ludik or Stockdale?

Can't see Stockdale being shifted, Ludik is an option but just wondering if its an opportunity for Cave to come in from the cold

Henderson still yet to sign a deal, if Nucifora messes this up forget firing him we should mount his head on a pike outside Ravenhill as a warning to all future generations

Can you imagine the reaction if we lost Henderson

Piutau also played 13 for Wasps.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Piutau also played 13 for Wasps.

NIEs have to play in the position they were signed.

neilthom7 wrote:Henderson still yet to sign a deal

He and O'Mahoney will be lining out together at Gloucester next season, you heard it here first.

rodders wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Piutau also played 13 for Wasps.

NIEs have to play in the position they were signed.

Did Nacewa not play at 10 for Leinster earlier this season?

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Piutau also played 13 for Wasps.

NIEs have to play in the position they were signed.

Did Nacewa not play at 10 for Leinster earlier this season?

Sure Leinster get away with anything...

rodders wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Piutau also played 13 for Wasps.

NIEs have to play in the position they were signed.

Did Nacewa not play at 10 for Leinster earlier this season?

Sure Leinster get away with anything...

Piutaus also played wing, Ruan played 10, Lealiifano played 12 so seems it's not just Leinster

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Piutau also played 13 for Wasps.

NIEs have to play in the position they were signed.

Did Nacewa not play at 10 for Leinster earlier this season?

Sure Leinster get away with anything...

Piutaus also played wing, Ruan played 10, Lealiifano played 12 so seems it's not just Leinster

Sounds like we're good then, in that case I wouldn't mind seeing Piatau at no8.

Sure Cooney has been playing openside all year anyway, oh wait he was meant to be playing scrumhalf? well this is awkward.