Ulster Rugby 2017-18

First topic message reminder :

Rory Best (hamstring)
Marcell Coetzee (knee)
Craig Gilroy (back)
Chris Henry (larynx)
Rob Lyttle (shoulder)
Al O'Connor (concussion)
Jared Payne (headaches)
Dave Shanahan (hamstring)
Nick Timoney (ankle)
Schalk van der Merwe (shoulder)

rodders wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Piutau also played 13 for Wasps.

NIEs have to play in the position they were signed.

Did Nacewa not play at 10 for Leinster earlier this season?

Sure Leinster get away with anything...

Piutaus also played wing, Ruan played 10, Lealiifano played 12 so seems it's not just Leinster

Sounds like we're good then, in that case I wouldn't mind seeing Piatau at no8.

If he needs an injury break its the best way to go

Ulster should seriously consider giving Henderson full whack from the Piatau contract
to retain him.
He is worth it.

I now believe that CC's may well be history after the WC.
If Henderson doesn't get offered one I am certain
No one will be getting anything more than 1 year CC this coming summer.


On the decision to kick for goal at the end - bang on correct by Hendo.
Winning the game was, and should have been, the only consideration.
Everything was fluff

Ulster:

15. Charles Piutau
14. Craig Gilroy
13. Louis Ludik
12. Stuart McCloskey
11. Jacob Stockdale
10. Christian Lealiifano
9. John Cooney

1. Callum Black
2. Rob Herring
3. Wiehahn Herbst
4. Alan O’Connor
5. Kieran Treadwell
6. Iain Henderson (captain)
7. Chris Henry
8. Nick Timoney

Replacements:

16. John Andrew
17. Andrew Warwick
18. Ross Kane
19. Mattie Rea
20. Sean Reidy
21. Paul Marshall
22. Peter Nelson
23. Andrew Trimble


Harlequins:

15. Ross Chisholm
14. Charlie Walker
13. Winston Stanley
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Alofa Alofa
10. Marcus Smith
9. Ian Prior

1. Lewis Boyce
2. Elia Elia
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. George Merrick
5. Charlie Matthews
6. Archie White
7. Dave Ward (captain)
8. Renaldo Bothma

Replacements:

16. Charlie Piper
17. Mark Lambert
18. Phil Swainston
19. Mat Luamanu
20. Dino Lamb
21. James Lang
22. Tim Visser
23. Mike Brown

Cave still in the naughty corner, will he leave to get some game time?

the-goon wrote:Cave still in the naughty corner, will he leave to get some game time?

If Kiss stays I believe the answer is Yes

Just when we will be losing loads of other backs - Piatau, Olding, Bowe

Is the game on Sky or BT?

5 points needed here.

Not a big fan of Cave but don't like Ludik at 13 myself, so would have went for the former.

Games on BT rodders

Quins seem to have given some of their front line players a rest and some are injured but it's a team that can really attack. I think it'll be a high scoring game and Ulster do have a real opportunity to get 5 points

Ludiks a very capable 13, think he's a guy that gains inches and yards in contact and can keep the team on the front foot. Just hope he can help keep things together in defence

marty2086 wrote:Games on BT rodders

rodders wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Games on BT rodders

Not a BT subscriber rodders?

Quins have given up with this side. Injuries aside it should be a dead rubber and I fully expect your lads to take 5pts from this match.
Frontline players have been rested where possible. Marcus Smith is only playing as we have one other 10 that's fit in the squad - he will probably also be covering the 9 shirt.

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Games on BT rodders

Not a BT subscriber rodders?

Was but then cancelled as last year the ERC games with provinces were mainly on Sky.

Now it seems the bloody reverse.

Next year all games in the ERC will be on BT.

Sky will be confined to SH, selected Pro14 games, occasional Top 14 games + England and Ireland internationals
BT will have Aviva and Europe
Terrestrial will have 6N, about 70% of Pro14 (including all Ulster games), Scotland and Wales Internationals, World Cup

To be honest I will stick with Virgin, with BT as part of the package and just use Sky for June and November internationals.
So far I have gone to the Pro14 finals regardless so don't need a TV, if not I'll just go down the pub that day

If you need somewhere to watch the games I can recommend a few options rodders

geoff999rugby wrote:
To be honest I will stick with Virgin, with BT as part of the package and just use Sky for June and November internationals.

Hey that's a good shout, why didn't I think of that.

Kyle Sinckler can Frak off, that was just dirty, Ulster players should have cleaned him out for that.  That's not a professional foul that just a Frak thug

Odd game in many respects.

The scoreline was both flattering and reaffirming of our weaknesses, -in that 52 points seems like a lot but we conceded 4 tries and 24 points to a Quins side shorn of almost all of their talent and a 10 who was just playing for fun.

We looked good in individual moments, but you're just left with that feeling when we run up against a good side we're going to get smashed.

Yes Neil, Sinckler is too dumb to be trusted at this sort of level. Watching the replays it's a penalty in terms of the sin, but the yellow was just for the sheer braindeadedness.

John Cooney is Ulster’s Best Buy of the last 3 seasons.

27 points haul in the match. Hopefully, Schmidt doesn’t ignore him for the 6N.

Pot Hale wrote:John Cooney is Ulster’s Best Buy of the last 3 seasons.

27 points haul in the match.  Hopefully, Schmidt doesn’t ignore him for the 6N.  

He has been excellent since he signed, thank goodness he is a reliable goal kicker too because we are very short on that front

I thought that Ulster were decent in the first half but seemed to lack some composure. The second half they were excellent.

Again Henderson was an absolute monster, he has to be one of the strongest players in contact I have ever seen. Thought that Gilroy was again a massive threat from the wing and what more can you say about Stockdale, he is nailed on for Ireland now.

I hate to admit this but maybe pete is right that Cooney will be backup #9 for Ireland soon, may lose my bet with him. Cooney was again excellent and he offers a lot with his place kicking.

Well I I joked after about his second game that cooney is our player of the season, but he just seems to be getting better with each game.
Gilroy is looking hungry in attack and his defense is looking very good.
Stockdale is Just on fire and some of his recoveries defensively when he can as slightly out of position were great to see.
Henderson is a machine.
Timoney looks like he's more than capable at this level.
Just need to sort out our defence, at time's we look bloody amateurs

Quins are appalling and although the win did give me a bit of a lift, I'd rather we'd lost and Kiss were out. Awful defence against a team that only cared sporadically.

Don Alfonso wrote:Quins are appalling and although the win did give me a bit of a lift, I'd rather we'd lost and Kiss were out. Awful defence against a team that only cared sporadically.

Kiss cant be blamed for the turnover that led to the Smith try, Timoney missing a tackle for Walkers, AOC missing a tackle for Chisholms and Kane moving off guard at a ruck that led to Wards try

You add in Piutau being down injured for Chisholms try leaving no cover defence, little things and individual errors accumulating to cause problems. Theres no doubt improvements needed but we've taken 9 from a possible 10 in the double header, which Im sure most doubted we could do and the only team to beat us in Europe is maybe the best team in Europe at the minute

Leinster ain't in Ulster's group, marty....

I see that Cooney has been invited along to Carton House by Schmidt for an Ireland 2-day camp. Good stuff.

Pot Hale wrote:I see that Cooney has been invited along to Carton House by Schmidt for an Ireland 2-day camp.   Good stuff.  

I am happy for the lad, I really am but by god if he looses me my bet with pete I will be unhappy

A couple of seasons ago, some posters were complaining that Ulster weren't securing try bonus points and that was costing them. Now Ulster are scoring tries, it's the defence that needs fixing. and while the two facets of play aren't mutually exclusive, an open style of game for one side makes it open up for the opposition too. For example purposely kicking the ball in-field rather than a safe touch-finder, or running the ball from deep, or throwing a flat pass that could be intercepted - all of which have both gained and cost Ulster points this season.

Since Kiss came in he has been trying to change Ulster's style of play to follow the more mobile patterns of Glasgow, Connacht and Scarlets. He has actively got rid of the heavy horse by losing Franco vdM, Tuohy and Stevenson. Cave may have said something to annoy him or maybe he is too slow to play that sort of game - ditto Trimble? The seeming preference for Bowe or Ludik at 13 would indicate pace has something to do with it.
Guys like Treadwell, Browne, now Rea and Hall are lighter ball-handling forwards, who might be better linkmen in attack, but faced with bigger opposition they are going to get worn down in defence. The new faces build more depth but defensive continuity is nigh impossible.

Ulster don't have the likes of Pienaar, Muller, Ferris, Afoa, Williams etc to provide the element of class that carries the rest of the squad. Players like Best, Bowe and Trimble are edging past their prime, Coetzee, Deysel and Schalk vdM all injured and of course two test class players in Jackson and Olding have been missing all season, (with Lealiifano departing soon). Competitively this season is basically a write-off, so if the end-game is to make Ulster hard to stop, Kiss et al should keep trying players until he has a squad with those skills and then develop the defensive side. In the meantime let's hope that Bryn can make more judicious signings to supplement Murphy and Moore rather than the injury prone NIQs he hitherto has recruited.

Dreadful result that with Wasps beating La Rochelle. Means Wasps are in the driving seat for 2nd place qualification. They play an already out Quins at the Stoop and Ulster at home. It's almost guaranteed we'll be on 13/14 points and them 14/15 at the Ricoh.

I'd almost be tempted to suggest they play the kids against La Rochelle and get humped. Then take the main squad to Wasps and hope the Quins game takes too much out of them ... but that's a waste of time because we need a losing bonus against La Rochelle to make it to 18.

Knowing us we'll play a main team for both games and lose both.

I wouldn't be so down on our chances to beat La Rochelle, I mean it's at home and French teams just don't travel well.

If we throw everything into beating La Rochelle Neil we'll lose to Wasps. Say we beat La Rochelle, we'll be spent and be lucky to pick up a bonus against Wasps who will be in pole position to qualify.

That'd leave us on 17 points say, Wasps will be on 18/19/20. I'm sorry I can't see a way through given the setup of the group.

Our best shot was La Rochelle to beat Wasps, thereby putting them out of the competition. Us losing to La Rochelle at home and beating Wasps away who had nothing to play for.

That was by far and away our best chance at qualification.

Nonsense. Ulster will beat La Rochelle at Ravenhill. And then put Wasps under pressure to win at home. They’re flaky. It’s entirely possible.

I disagree wholeheartedly Redman but we are allowed to, otherwise there will be very little point to this forum lol

I think sometimes we are a little too doom and gloom round this way, and I very much include myself in that. Sure we have a lot of issues but there are some bright spots shining through.
I mean think about the weekend, if had went to anyone here last season and said don't worry lads next season we will beat harlequins, get a try bonus point and score over 50 points and we will do it all without, Rory Best, Franco Van Der Merwe, Marcell Coetzee, Jean Deysel, Roger Wilson, Ruan Pienaar, Paddy Jackson, Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall, Tommy Bowe and Jared Payne with a team that Andrew trimble can't get into and Darren Cave isn't near you would have looked at me like I lost my mind

Pot Hale wrote:Nonsense.  Ulster will beat La Rochelle at Ravenhill.  And then put Wasps under pressure to win at home.  They’re flaky.   It’s entirely possible.  

That's the spirit, Rochelle can be beaten away from home. There is no reason after the Wasps result that we can't believe that we can turn them over, there is also no reason not to believe that we can't get something away to Wasps, who by the way have lost to some pretty mediocre teams at home this season, including Newcastle Falcons.

Loving the optimism lads, really am. I just don't share it. I do of course hope I'm wrong.

The Great Aukster wrote:Now Ulster are scoring tries, it's the defence that needs fixing. and while the two facets of play aren't mutually exclusive, an open style of game for one side makes it open up for the opposition too.

Great post but too long to quote it all.

It was good to see Ulsters attacking patterns start to click and a great result withoit doubt. I do think La Rochelle could well be beatable at the Kingspan based on how ordinary they looked as Wasps.

I'm not convinced though that our attack is as varied or effective as Glasgow or Connacht under Lamb and Exeter showed against Leinster how an aggressive defense and line speed can shut that style down if the players can't play heads up and play through the middle and use the kicking game.

The defense really is a bit of a shambles, which will probably cost us in the long run although it is good that we are in with a chance of the KO stages, we'll need to improve a lot.

Cooney missed a few tackles but otherwise was superb and Leliafano will be missed when he leaves. Gilroy looks back to his best and was the pick of a dangerous back 3. Henderson led from the front again.

One positive Ulster have going for them in the last two rounds is that it's the last set of games before the 6Ns so Quins will probably put out a full strength team and guys like Robshaw, Marler, Sincklair, Care, Brown will want to go well

eirebilly wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:I see that Cooney has been invited along to Carton House by Schmidt for an Ireland 2-day camp.   Good stuff.  

I am happy for the lad, I really am but by god if he looses me my bet with pete I will be unhappy

What is the forfeit Billy? And besides, greater good and all that. Scrum half has been a great success for the IRFU, 4 genuine test options, 1 in each province. Obviously there is one stand out, but he is the best in the world. The other 3 don't fill you with dread if they had to come in.

the-goon wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:I see that Cooney has been invited along to Carton House by Schmidt for an Ireland 2-day camp.   Good stuff.  

I am happy for the lad, I really am but by god if he looses me my bet with pete I will be unhappy

What is the forfeit Billy? And besides, greater good and all that. Scrum half has been a great success for the IRFU, 4 genuine test options, 1 in each province. Obviously there is one stand out, but he is the best in the world. The other 3 don't fill you with dread if they had to come in.

Interesting trivia, all the starting provincial scrum halves scored this weekend, bar Murray.

the-goon wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:I see that Cooney has been invited along to Carton House by Schmidt for an Ireland 2-day camp.   Good stuff.  

I am happy for the lad, I really am but by god if he looses me my bet with pete I will be unhappy

What is the forfeit Billy? And besides, greater good and all that. Scrum half has been a great success for the IRFU, 4 genuine test options, 1 in each province. Obviously there is one stand out, but he is the best in the world. The other 3 don't fill you with dread if they had to come in.

... at the kind of game Joe and Munster want to play.  *pause for solemn reflection*

There are quicker 9s out there though for a faster, opportunistic, counter-attacking gameplan, should we ever get to the point where Joe might ever want to run it hard rather than box kick the life out of it.  Murray is the perfect 9 for the kind of game Ireland play...but sure maybe Joe has even adapted that kind of game to suit the best nine in the world?

rodders wrote:

the-goon wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:I see that Cooney has been invited along to Carton House by Schmidt for an Ireland 2-day camp.   Good stuff.  

I am happy for the lad, I really am but by god if he looses me my bet with pete I will be unhappy

What is the forfeit Billy? And besides, greater good and all that. Scrum half has been a great success for the IRFU, 4 genuine test options, 1 in each province. Obviously there is one stand out, but he is the best in the world. The other 3 don't fill you with dread if they had to come in.

Interesting trivia, all the starting provincial scrum halves scored this weekend, bar Murray.

Did I read he missed a conversion or penalty too?

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

the-goon wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:I see that Cooney has been invited along to Carton House by Schmidt for an Ireland 2-day camp.   Good stuff.  

I am happy for the lad, I really am but by god if he looses me my bet with pete I will be unhappy

What is the forfeit Billy? And besides, greater good and all that. Scrum half has been a great success for the IRFU, 4 genuine test options, 1 in each province. Obviously there is one stand out, but he is the best in the world. The other 3 don't fill you with dread if they had to come in.

Interesting trivia, all the starting provincial scrum halves scored this weekend, bar Murray.

Did I read he missed a conversion or penalty too?

Yup missed a penalty just before half time, what a waster.

Bet Cooney would have scored, shows what Joe knows when he picks Murray over him

Any news on the 10 coming to replace Christian?

OK so I couldn't stay away for very long.
On the replacement 10, KOTH on t'other forum claims that someone, seemingly an All Black, has been signed, sealed and delivered. Announcement soon.

Welcome back Pete

So we can take it its Donald signing unless Carter got an early release or Weepu is coming out of retirement?

Beuden Barrett?

rodders wrote:Beuden Barrett?

He could do with a challenge

the-goon wrote:

rodders wrote:Beuden Barrett?

He could do with a challenge

You're not allowed to challenge him, it's in the new simplified laws

Unless Ma'unga fancies a few months up north I doubt it's a current all black. So Donald most likely.
Is Cruden still in France?
Any one cap wonder hanging round?