Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

I think bailly does look a good prospect, but he is pretty raw. The spurs pairing is probably the best in tge league as a partnership. I think mendy looks an immense left back, alonso also good, I think rose is better then bertrand though, when fit. I remember a time when full backs had to defend!

[Diggers]

Rose has improved massively, not played for 6 months though. Agree re the Spurs back 2.
Hard to leave out Azpilucueto (maybe for Walker), he's been quality for a few years, though I'd take Walkers form right now.

[beninho]

The thing with azpi is he seems to have become a centre half now, with moses on the right.

[Diggers]

Yeah, not sure that's his best position, shows how good he is that he can play anywhere in the back 4. A shoo in for the bench at the very least.

[Be_the_ball]

I've a feeling this storm about to hit UK&I will be a bit overrated...

If anyone wants to follow its progress live see here-
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-12.34,52.66,216

[Davie]

I thought that too BtB - seems to be an effect of 24 hour news channels - they seem to exaggerate everything .. yes it's going to be a nasty storm but they are now saying winds of 80mph? I grew up in the North West of England and I'm pretty sure 80mph winds weren't that unusual (though still quite severe)

[navyblueshorts]

But it was the media that carried out the investigation and reported the story that he is at best a serial sex pest, at worst a r***ist. And while I get he has probably had 100s of women throwing themselves at him, his lines were very blurred it is also very clear tgat he has has acted very inappropriately. So if it wasn't for the media people would still ve covering for him in fear that he would ruin there career. Some of the twitter accounts are people who have been abused in the past, yet felt unable to come forward. If you or anyone is annoyed with the media on this, you are annoyed with the wrong side.

I agree with much of that, but there's this little thing called innocent until proven guilty. You know - one of the pillars of our so-called civil society. For one thing, how are they going to find any Jury that's unaware of the media/social media coverage and can honestly say they have no bias? It must be true I guess - some celebs have said so.
Don't get me wrong - if he's proven to have behaved as is claimed, the Book should be thrown at him. I'm just very uncomfortable with this 'guilty until proven innocent', media-driven, trial-by-public-opinion we now have.

[navyblueshorts]

I thought that too BtB - seems to be an effect of 24 hour news channels - they seem to exaggerate everything .. yes it's going to be a nasty storm but they are now saying winds of 80mph? I grew up in the North West of England and I'm pretty sure 80mph winds weren't that unusual (though still quite severe)

I think you'll find winds (if sustained) of 80mph qualifies as a hurricane. I suspect you'll find 80mph winds unusual, even in t'North. Then again, they're all a bit hard up there aren't they?

[Be_the_ball]

Bring in your potted plants!!

[Roller_Coaster]

Leave them out. If they can't cope with a bit of breeze they're not tough enough to be northern potted plants!

Pah

[Roller_Coaster]

But it was the media that carried out the investigation and reported the story that he is at best a serial sex pest, at worst a r***ist. And while I get he has probably had 100s of women throwing themselves at him, his lines were very blurred it is also very clear tgat he has has acted very inappropriately. So if it wasn't for the media people would still ve covering for him in fear that he would ruin there career. Some of the twitter accounts are people who have been abused in the past, yet felt unable to come forward. If you or anyone is annoyed with the media on this, you are annoyed with the wrong side.

I agree with much of that, but there's this little thing called innocent until proven guilty. You know - one of the pillars of our so-called civil society. For one thing, how are they going to find any Jury that's unaware of the media/social media coverage and can honestly say they have no bias? It must be true I guess - some celebs have said so.
Don't get me wrong - if he's proven to have behaved as is claimed, the Book should be thrown at him. I'm just very uncomfortable with this 'guilty until proven innocent', media-driven, trial-by-public-opinion we now have.

+1.

[pedro]

Me too. But even if he is legally innocent of harrassment (and what’s worse) he has more or less admitted that he is, in colloquial terms, an old pig. And being in his position that fully justifies condemnation by the public/media imo.

PS: the Hollywood ‘casting couch’ has always been a public secret, but nevertheless it’s still a good story.

[McLaren]

Super

I know you have asked for specific evidence of you being racist but I am not going to go through all your posts just to provide that. If this were a court or we were deciding definitively whether or not you were racist then obviously that sort of rigorous process would be needed. But we are not, and what we are talking about is the impression that has been left be your accumulated posting on this site over a number of years.

The impression that I have been left with is that you might not be the sort of racist that would openly say you don't like black people or Jewish people but you are the sort of person who has little care for the injustices faced by groups like them. On top of that you seem ok with hinting at having a level of disdain for these groups in certain scenarios.

I get the feeling that if pressed you would say you want equality but you would like to retain the freedom to mock or dislike the things that make those groups different from you and the process of getting equality for these groups irritates you.

If I were being really harsh I would probably say you enjoy a bit of dog whistle racism.

Feel free to dismiss this is merely the impression of you formed by one, possibly mistaken in your eyes, individual but even with "no evidence" this is how I feel about you and racism.

I suspect you will not be all that offended by this position given it is exactly the reason I don't respect the likes of Harris, Murray, Hitchens, Maher etc and others in the neocon camp. For you I am just a soft SJW.

[beninho]

3 dead in Ireland, 120,000 without power, are we agreeing that it has been a bit more then the usual bad weather?

[westisbest]

Pretty bad from I’ve seen and family have mentioned.

[super_realist]

Surely Mac you could cite one example? At best I would say that all you've got is that I dislike Woods and Hamilton, but when you add in that I dislike a raft of white, middle class bible thumping Americans then the only possible avenue you have seems to have dried up.

I don't really care if you think I'm a racist, but you've got as much reason to think so as me thinking you are an onion.

I've never made one single racial slur on any of these boards, but what I will add is that lefties generally jump on the "racist" bandwagon the moment someone disagrees with them on something, similar to when people legitimately criticising Islam get labelled Islamophobic. It's reflected in the way that you can't value comments from someone that you don't agree with 100%. Same as someone making a poorly thought out statement gets the SJW's calling for them to be fired.

So i'm assuming that it's your lack of comprehension and how debate and argument actually works which is leading you to come to that conclusion rather than one based on actual reasoning and judgement.

Everything is not black and white so to speak, and someone disagreeing with you doesn't mean they hold the polar opposite view.

[Be_the_ball]

3 dead in Ireland, 120,000 without power, are we agreeing that it has been a bit more then the usual bad weather?

It is indeed Ben, seriously strong gales in some parts...

[super_realist]

I don't think there's anything especially unusual about the weather. Usually a couple of storms a year with those sort of wind strengths.

[beninho]

Good call on swansea forgot about them even Leicester, I think Shakespeare could be next for the chop.

Its a league where any team from 6 could win the league, then everton will cone 7th, and any team from 12 could go down, though I dont see stoke, baggies, west ham being in real danger.

Called it weeks ago!

[Roller_Coaster]

Heard he turned up at the training ground to say goodbye to the players but was refused entry by a jobsworth security guard.

"Oi, Shakespeare, you're bard"



Haii thank youwww.

[dynamark]

Bit harsh on Shaky but our owners are not shy of making a decision or two.
Their culture comes across very religious and respectful still mourning the death of the King of Thailand etc but employment regulations seem to be a bit thin.

[super_realist]

Palace yet another step forward to the trap door. Poor Woy.

"They think it's wall wover".

[Diggers]

Can't stand Rafa, thinks he's far more special than his career actually shows. That said he's doing a great job with what appears to be a bang average squad. The Man Utd result had been coming, their form was definitely dipping.

[kwinigolfer]

Went to the new Wembley a week ago; not a bad seat in the house, but sterile atmosphere, antiseptic almost.
Decent pies & pint though.
Can't ever imagine it truly rocking, like the old place could though from far inferior sightlines.
Could do (have done) better.

[super_realist]

Can't stand Rafa, thinks he's far more special than his career actually shows. That said he's doing a great job with what appears to be a bang average squad. The Man Utd result had been coming, their form was definitely dipping.

Is he not known as The Fat Spanish Waiter?

[Diggers]

Went to the new Wembley a week ago; not a bad seat in the house, but sterile atmosphere, antiseptic almost.
Decent pies & pint though.
Can't ever imagine it truly rocking, like the old place could though from far inferior sightlines.
Could do (have done) better.

All the new stadiums feel like that, Wembley is just a bigger version. The Olympic Stadium is similar, but having been there for the Olympics and World athletics, you can create an amazing atmosphere, you just need the right event. I'd imagine Spurs v Real will feel pretty electric when it happens, even today should be buzzing.

[Diggers]

Liverpool woeful today, but what price Harry Kane? All round game improving all the time. Interesting to see Winks play, lot of potential, passes and moves well. Also interesting that Alli played most of the match as a genuine midfielder, those two could maybe play like that for England.

[super_realist]

Liverpool woeful today, but what price Harry Kane? All round game improving all the time. Interesting to see Winks play, lot of potential, passes and moves well. Also interesting that Alli played most of the match as a genuine midfielder, those two could maybe play like that for England.

Not continuing my England bashing Diggers, but no England players ever play consistently well on England duty. So I wouldn't expect Wanks and Alli to do much.

[beninho]

I quite like spurs, though dont think they will win the league against the billion doller spending manchester clubs. Maybe dele, kane, dier would play for england like they do if they had potchetino as manager, and christian eriksen in the team.

[McLaren]

Why wouldn't England play Winks, Dier and Alli?


Anything but Henderson. How bad did he look against Spurs yesterday? It's Ok going to town on the defenders but it isn't easy with that clumsy sod in front of you.

[pedro]

Technically Henderson is not much to write home about. But generally he plays with heart. So in this sense he's an archetypical British player. I think there should be room in any top team for this type of player, problem is just if all are like him.

[kwinigolfer]

Why wouldn't England play Winks, Dier and Alli?


Anything but Henderson.  How bad did he look against Spurs yesterday? It's Ok going to town on the defenders but it isn't easy with that clumsy sod in front of you.

I like Henderson, at least he tries 100%, has an eye for a pass (brilliant ball to Salah for the first goal) and had a goalbound strike that almost decapitated Vertonghen.
Liverpool's defence, on the other hand . . . . . . . . .

Way too early to go into rhapsodies about Winks, tho' good to see Spurs give young'uns a chance. The Spurs midfield is lightweight without Wanyama and or Dembele; Saturday lunchtime at OT should be more instructive.

[beninho]

Henderson is decent, he is not bad, and he is not great. he is a decent premier league player.

He is a bit old school, up and down centre midfielder, the sort that never catches the eye, but can do a job. Now its all about the defensive midfielder like Kante, or the attacking midfielder who does no defensive work.

I wonder where Roy Keane would fit in todays football, similar with Viera.

[beninho]

Why wouldn't England play Winks, Dier and Alli?


Anything but Henderson.  How bad did he look against Spurs yesterday? It's Ok going to town on the defenders but it isn't easy with that clumsy sod in front of you.

I like Henderson, at least he tries 100%, has an eye for a pass (brilliant ball to Salah for the first goal) and had a goalbound strike that almost decapitated Vertonghen.
Liverpool's defence, on the other hand . . . . . . . . .

Way too early to go into rhapsodies about Winks, tho' good to see Spurs give young'uns a chance. The Spurs midfield is lightweight without Wanyama and or Dembele; Saturday lunchtime at OT should be more instructive.

Dembele, is one of the most underrated players. He is so good.

[McLaren]

I am not saying Winks is amazing but I am saying England can't improve on a midfield made up of Spurs players who are pretty well accustomed to playing with each other.

[Diggers]

Why wouldn't England play Winks, Dier and Alli?


Anything but Henderson.  How bad did he look against Spurs yesterday? It's Ok going to town on the defenders but it isn't easy with that clumsy sod in front of you.

I like Henderson, at least he tries 100%, has an eye for a pass (brilliant ball to Salah for the first goal) and had a goalbound strike that almost decapitated Vertonghen.
Liverpool's defence, on the other hand . . . . . . . . .

Way too early to go into rhapsodies about Winks, tho' good to see Spurs give young'uns a chance. The Spurs midfield is lightweight without Wanyama and or Dembele; Saturday lunchtime at OT should be more instructive.

Dembele is excellent, but not because he is big. Lightweight is irrelevant in a modern midfielder. What matters is work rate, no problem with that in Spurs midfield yesterday.
For sure too early to go OTT on Winks, but nobody is. Simply saying in an area where England have problems, he is showing good potential.

[beninho]

Winks does look like he has potential, I like that spurs will give players game time.

[kwinigolfer]

But Dembele (and Wanyama) ARE a good size which gives Spurs a physical presence - perhaps Winks will be the dynamo that some smaller players have been. Just haven't seen it yet.
Also: To me, Dier looks a little lost when Spurs play a back three - not clear exactly what he thinks his role should be.
Can see a couple of good names exitting WHL/WS in January.

[pedro]

Can see a couple of good names exitting WHL/WS in January.

Eriksen to Barca if they can't get Coutinho?.

[raycastleunited]

Why wouldn't England play Winks, Dier and Alli?


Anything but Henderson.  How bad did he look against Spurs yesterday? It's Ok going to town on the defenders but it isn't easy with that clumsy sod in front of you.

Henderson is a decent premier league midfielder. He's not international material though - He shouldn't be good enough to play for England.

I'd like to see the Spurs midfield line up for England. There's a lot to be said in favour of consistency.

Southgate could do a lot worse than taking the Spurs players, formation and approach, and then slotting in players from other clubs where there is a gap. It worked for Spain with Barca.

[pedro]

He's not international material though - He shouldn't be good enough to play for England.

Can you name 11 that are?

[raycastleunited]

He's not international material though - He shouldn't be good enough to play for England.

Can you name 11 that are?

true Pedro

[raycastleunited]

I think England should play 3 centre halves: Cahill, Stones, Jones. Then you can drop Henderson because he doesn't offer much protection to the back 4. And Stones / Jones are probably better passers of the ball than Henderson.

Call it a back 3 or back 5, doesn't matter. Also gives more freedom to Walker, Rose etc to get forward. Our full backs are England's best attacking options, but aren't actually very good defenders.

[raycastleunited]

And I'd probably go with Delph at left back given his current form.

[Diggers]

But Dembele (and Wanyama) ARE a good size which gives Spurs a physical presence - perhaps Winks will be the dynamo that some smaller players have been. Just haven't seen it yet.
Also: To me, Dier looks a little lost when Spurs play a back three - not clear exactly what he thinks his role should be.
Can see a couple of good names exitting WHL/WS in January.

Work rate gives you a physical presence, why else do you need it in the modern game Kwini? You can't even tackle these days. Where is Cities physical presence? Would you rather have Fellani or Silva in your side?
For set pieces you have forwards and centre backs. The two best holding midfielders I've seen are Makelele and Kante, both are pretty small. Fair enough Carrick is tall, you he may well be the least physical midfielder I've ever seen. Agree re Dier and best position though, he is still pretty young though, I think he will develop into a very good player.

[Diggers]

He's not international material though - He shouldn't be good enough to play for England.

Can you name 11 that are?

true Pedro

Butland
Walker (Trippier)
Stones
Jones
Rose (Bertrand)
Lallana
Alli
Sterling
Dier
Rashford
Kane

Looks like a side with goals in it, just a case of getting them playing to their strengths.
Good to see England under 17's have made semis of their World Cup, beats their best previous effort. I've had a look back and our age group teams have never come close to a year like this, excellent performances in every tournament. We've had the odd win before but usually weak across the board, especially at youth level.

[kwinigolfer]

Koeman: Everton not moenen about him any more. Another managerial goner.

[beninho]

Does seem that we have some good youth prospects, but will they get a chance to play in the premier league. Maybe they should do like Sancho, and go abroad. He has joined Dortmund, yet to play I think, but given Dembeles squad number, and has been on the bench. Not bad for a 17 year old. I see that 3 other youngsters are in Germany at the moment, which is good to see.

Koeman had to go, spending 50m on Sigurdsson was absurd. Loads of signings but never replaced the striker they sold.

[Roller_Coaster]

Henderson is decent, he is not bad, and he is not great. he is a decent premier league player.

He is a bit old school, up and down centre midfielder, the sort that never catches the eye, but can do a job. Now its all about the defensive midfielder like Kante, or the attacking midfielder who does no defensive work.

I wonder where Roy Keane would fit in todays football, similar with Viera.

I think Viera would still walk into any top side in any league, were he at his peak. He struck me as good enough to adapt to any style/system as a player with or without the ball. Keane I think was probably more a product of the time and was absolutely superb at what he needed to do, but that job doesn't really exist in the set ups of most top sides at the moment. Although I might be doing him a dis-service, he might be good enough, but either no-one tried or needed him to play any differently as the United side were so good at what they did and how they did it.

[Diggers]

Keane adapted his game as he aged, went from a box to box goal scoring player to a holding midfielder. He had everything really, very underrated passer of the ball, he'd be fine today. Vierra was quality as well.
Both would have to change their tackling game though, they'd be off every week otherwise.

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