Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

I think bailly does look a good prospect, but he is pretty raw. The spurs pairing is probably the best in tge league as a partnership. I think mendy looks an immense left back, alonso also good, I think rose is better then bertrand though, when fit. I remember a time when full backs had to defend!

[Diggers]

Re footballers and trying/not trying. I'm not really sure why people choose to judge them by a certain set of standards that I very much doubt they hold themselves accountable to. For example the "losing the dressing room" theory that leads to a manager going. Are you seriously telling met hat everyone ion other jobs quite merrily goes about their business even if they feel their boss is incompetent or an utter kumquat. That would be utter BS, of course people bitch and moan and indeed agitate, I have never, ever worked in a place that didn't at some point have a bad atmosphere or cliques of people slating over people.
Why on earth should footballers be any difference, money is irrelevant. They have it so are just accepting of it. There is no point telling a rich person to appreciate their wealth, it's already a constant in their lives so basically they, just like any of us, are driven by emotion.
Also as Super keeps banging on and on (ad nauseam) about, it's not as if they are a particularly articulate or well educated bunch.
It's the same with daily effort, I'm sure we all turn up every single day and think I absolutely must give 100% today, anything less would be a travesty. Yeah right. But apparently nothing less is expected of a footballer, not seen to be playing well is instantly poor.
I'm as guilty as anyone, but lets face it, it smacks of hypocrisy.

As usual, you're missing the point. At no point am I saying anyone has to give 100% in anything they do.

At my work, as I'm sure you do at yours, you have to meet certain standards. That doesn't mean that you have to give 100% every time and no decent workplace would expect you to work at such levels, because for most people, the job they are in is one which they are qualified to do and one which is well within their abilities. Therefore, you can probably do your job to the level required by not having to knock your pan in.

Similarly, in sport there's a lot of events where a team or player can coast through a game, but when that performance level dips and is causing damage to the team, or their effort is no longer sufficient to meet the standards expected why just sack the manager? Why not take action against the player ( or at least those most responsible too? )

Tennis players like Krygios and the other deplorable Aussie player Tomic have been getting big fines and bans for not putting in sufficient effort. If you're an Everton fan for instance, or even an England fan how are their players meeting expectations?
Why for example does nothing happen to England players for stinking out every tournament and not being able to replicate their club form?

I'm not missing any point. Your complete pack of any nuance for the game means you can't even differentiate between form and effort. How can you appraise form, do you think people try to play poorly for club or country? Look at Stones last year and the overall set up, I told you exactly what needed to happen for him to blossom. Appraisaling him as a 3 shows how clueless you are.

[Diggers]

Citeh riding their look, Sterling looking like a bargain buy now.
Rooney hat trick, you'd have got very long odds on that 2 hours ago.

[kwinigolfer]

Citeh riding their look, Sterling looking like a bargain buy now.
Rooney hat trick, you'd have got very long odds on that 2 hours ago.

Didn't think Sterling had it in him. But he's improving by the game now.
I'm a Rooney fan, always have been and probably always will be. Only Kane and Sterling ahead of him as leading English scorer, tied on 7 with Vardy (great goal last night).

[beninho]

Great goal by sterling, he seems to be really improving under pep. I like the man city keeper aswell. And delph is reborn. Glad they didnt sack him.

[McLaren]

I just heard that big Sam made all the everton players do an appraisal before the match.

[super_realist]

I just heard that big Sam made all the everton players do an appraisal before the match.

Clearly you don't get them in McDonalds or the public toilets, but an appraisal is done on YOU.

[super_realist]

Re footballers and trying/not trying. I'm not really sure why people choose to judge them by a certain set of standards that I very much doubt they hold themselves accountable to. For example the "losing the dressing room" theory that leads to a manager going. Are you seriously telling met hat everyone ion other jobs quite merrily goes about their business even if they feel their boss is incompetent or an utter kumquat. That would be utter BS, of course people bitch and moan and indeed agitate, I have never, ever worked in a place that didn't at some point have a bad atmosphere or cliques of people slating over people.
Why on earth should footballers be any difference, money is irrelevant. They have it so are just accepting of it. There is no point telling a rich person to appreciate their wealth, it's already a constant in their lives so basically they, just like any of us, are driven by emotion.
Also as Super keeps banging on and on (ad nauseam) about, it's not as if they are a particularly articulate or well educated bunch.
It's the same with daily effort, I'm sure we all turn up every single day and think I absolutely must give 100% today, anything less would be a travesty. Yeah right. But apparently nothing less is expected of a footballer, not seen to be playing well is instantly poor.
I'm as guilty as anyone, but lets face it, it smacks of hypocrisy.

As usual, you're missing the point. At no point am I saying anyone has to give 100% in anything they do.

At my work, as I'm sure you do at yours, you have to meet certain standards. That doesn't mean that you have to give 100% every time and no decent workplace would expect you to work at such levels, because for most people, the job they are in is one which they are qualified to do and one which is well within their abilities. Therefore, you can probably do your job to the level required by not having to knock your pan in.

Similarly, in sport there's a lot of events where a team or player can coast through a game, but when that performance level dips and is causing damage to the team, or their effort is no longer sufficient to meet the standards expected why just sack the manager? Why not take action against the player ( or at least those most responsible too? )

Tennis players like Krygios and the other deplorable Aussie player Tomic have been getting big fines and bans for not putting in sufficient effort. If you're an Everton fan for instance, or even an England fan how are their players meeting expectations?
Why for example does nothing happen to England players for stinking out every tournament and not being able to replicate their club form?

I'm not missing any point. Your complete pack of any nuance for the game means you can't even differentiate between form and effort. How can you appraise form, do you think people try to play poorly for club or country? Look at Stones last year and the overall set up, I told you exactly what needed to happen for him to blossom. Appraisaling him as a 3 shows how clueless you are.

So you'd give Stones more than a 3 last year? It would appear he's improved on this this year, but how exactly did he exceed expectations last year? How could you give him more than a 3, you don't give someone a 4 until they've achieved it.  He was ordinary. A 3 wouldn't be a sacking offence anyway, it's an average mark which means you are doing your job sufficiently but not exemplary.

I think it's hilarious that self confessed football fans think they know all about what effort is and how much someone is putting in just because they attach themselves in a tenuous way to the game from the comfort of their armchair and from MOTD. I might not like the sport of football much these days, but it doesn't mean I haven't done in the past and it doesn't mean that supporting a team gives you any greater insight into what it's like to play, nor does it give you insight into how much effort someone is putting in. You don't know any more about football, just because you support dross like Sunderland, or just because I'm no longer into it as much as I was.

Have you never been to a match where you'd put in more effort than those playing? Where you'd have chased down that ball a bit more?

We have different opinions, and your "knowledge" is no greater or less than mine just because you call yourself a "fan", so stop pretending that you have some sort of special insight into the game, because you haven't. You sound like Ray Houghton "You haven't played the game Adrian" or rather "But you don't support a crappy team in the Championship Super and watch 5 minutes a week on C5 from your armchair, so how can you have an opinion?"

[beninho]

You've made up and used your own appraisal. And based it on god knows what. Bit weird.

I still think you have very little football knowledge, whats your current world eleven?

[McLaren]

I was thinking the same about super making up his own appraisal system. Also it is always a bad sign when someone tries to deflect a joke about them with such a pedantic response.


And if it helps clarify for you super, it comes off as if you have very little knowledge about football.

my world eleven would be degea and 10 ashley youngs.

[pedro]

So based on expectations and salary Messi and Ronaldo would never get more than a 3. In fact Ronaldo has been a bit down lately, so that would have been a 1 or a 2.

[Diggers]

Re footballers and trying/not trying. I'm not really sure why people choose to judge them by a certain set of standards that I very much doubt they hold themselves accountable to. For example the "losing the dressing room" theory that leads to a manager going. Are you seriously telling met hat everyone ion other jobs quite merrily goes about their business even if they feel their boss is incompetent or an utter kumquat. That would be utter BS, of course people bitch and moan and indeed agitate, I have never, ever worked in a place that didn't at some point have a bad atmosphere or cliques of people slating over people.
Why on earth should footballers be any difference, money is irrelevant. They have it so are just accepting of it. There is no point telling a rich person to appreciate their wealth, it's already a constant in their lives so basically they, just like any of us, are driven by emotion.
Also as Super keeps banging on and on (ad nauseam) about, it's not as if they are a particularly articulate or well educated bunch.
It's the same with daily effort, I'm sure we all turn up every single day and think I absolutely must give 100% today, anything less would be a travesty. Yeah right. But apparently nothing less is expected of a footballer, not seen to be playing well is instantly poor.
I'm as guilty as anyone, but lets face it, it smacks of hypocrisy.

As usual, you're missing the point. At no point am I saying anyone has to give 100% in anything they do.

At my work, as I'm sure you do at yours, you have to meet certain standards. That doesn't mean that you have to give 100% every time and no decent workplace would expect you to work at such levels, because for most people, the job they are in is one which they are qualified to do and one which is well within their abilities. Therefore, you can probably do your job to the level required by not having to knock your pan in.

Similarly, in sport there's a lot of events where a team or player can coast through a game, but when that performance level dips and is causing damage to the team, or their effort is no longer sufficient to meet the standards expected why just sack the manager? Why not take action against the player ( or at least those most responsible too? )

Tennis players like Krygios and the other deplorable Aussie player Tomic have been getting big fines and bans for not putting in sufficient effort. If you're an Everton fan for instance, or even an England fan how are their players meeting expectations?
Why for example does nothing happen to England players for stinking out every tournament and not being able to replicate their club form?

I'm not missing any point. Your complete pack of any nuance for the game means you can't even differentiate between form and effort. How can you appraise form, do you think people try to play poorly for club or country? Look at Stones last year and the overall set up, I told you exactly what needed to happen for him to blossom. Appraisaling him as a 3 shows how clueless you are.

So you'd give Stones more than a 3 last year? It would appear he's improved on this this year, but how exactly did he exceed expectations last year? How could you give him more than a 3, you don't give someone a 4 until they've achieved it.  He was ordinary. A 3 wouldn't be a sacking offence anyway, it's an average mark which means you are doing your job sufficiently but not exemplary.

I think it's hilarious that self confessed football fans think they know all about what effort is and how much someone is putting in just because they attach themselves in a tenuous way to the game from the comfort of their armchair and from MOTD. I might not like the sport of football much these days, but it doesn't mean I haven't done in the past and it doesn't mean that supporting a team gives you any greater insight into what it's like to play, nor does it give you insight into how much effort someone is putting in. You don't know any more about football, just because you support dross like Sunderland, or just because I'm no longer into it as much as I was.

Have you never been to a match where you'd put in more effort than those playing? Where you'd have chased down that ball a bit more?

We have different opinions, and your "knowledge" is no greater or less than mine just because you call yourself a "fan", so stop pretending that you have some sort of special insight into the game, because you haven't. You sound like Ray Houghton "You haven't played the game Adrian" or rather "But you don't support a crappy team in the Championship Super and watch 5 minutes a week on C5 from your armchair, so how can you have an opinion?"

You are basically saying nobody is more of an expert on any subject than anyone else. Everyone is as qualified as anyone else whatever their background. Odd. I think you confuse opinion and knowledge. You might have watched a bit of football 10 years ago, that does not give you the same insight as someone who watched a player or a team regularly. Your opinions, and this is massively obvious in you football posts, are based largely on pre-meditated assumption.
And your appraisal system is quite frankly idiotic.

[McLaren]

Has there ever been a more ridiculous set of posts than Super's ramblings over the last few days about sacking footballers and giving them appraisals?

[kwinigolfer]

Think you've got your cart before your horse there, Mac.

[McLaren]

[pedro]

Think you've got your cart bus before your horse there, Mac.

fixed it for you

[navyblueshorts]

Has there ever been a more ridiculous set of posts than Super's ramblings over the last few days about sacking footballers and giving them appraisals?

I haven't read them all, but you're about as expert as he is from what you post here. I agree with him to some extent, although we don't actually know what's in current player contracts - for all I know, many may well get penalised for 'not trying' as it stands. In some cases it's clear (see Ranieri/Leicester, for example) and it should be possible to penalise the players in some cases of this type.
Personally, if I were managing and I thought a player was not even trying for no obvious reason (which to me is about as bad as it gets for a pro sportsman), I'd simply bench them and make them train with the reserves/trainees. The club can deal with the fallout and if they sack me, I'll happily take my payoff thank-you very much.

[navyblueshorts]

They'd be appraised first, and then sacked I would think. Think nothing of it...

[super_realist]

Re footballers and trying/not trying. I'm not really sure why people choose to judge them by a certain set of standards that I very much doubt they hold themselves accountable to. For example the "losing the dressing room" theory that leads to a manager going. Are you seriously telling met hat everyone ion other jobs quite merrily goes about their business even if they feel their boss is incompetent or an utter kumquat. That would be utter BS, of course people bitch and moan and indeed agitate, I have never, ever worked in a place that didn't at some point have a bad atmosphere or cliques of people slating over people.
Why on earth should footballers be any difference, money is irrelevant. They have it so are just accepting of it. There is no point telling a rich person to appreciate their wealth, it's already a constant in their lives so basically they, just like any of us, are driven by emotion.
Also as Super keeps banging on and on (ad nauseam) about, it's not as if they are a particularly articulate or well educated bunch.
It's the same with daily effort, I'm sure we all turn up every single day and think I absolutely must give 100% today, anything less would be a travesty. Yeah right. But apparently nothing less is expected of a footballer, not seen to be playing well is instantly poor.
I'm as guilty as anyone, but lets face it, it smacks of hypocrisy.

As usual, you're missing the point. At no point am I saying anyone has to give 100% in anything they do.

At my work, as I'm sure you do at yours, you have to meet certain standards. That doesn't mean that you have to give 100% every time and no decent workplace would expect you to work at such levels, because for most people, the job they are in is one which they are qualified to do and one which is well within their abilities. Therefore, you can probably do your job to the level required by not having to knock your pan in.

Similarly, in sport there's a lot of events where a team or player can coast through a game, but when that performance level dips and is causing damage to the team, or their effort is no longer sufficient to meet the standards expected why just sack the manager? Why not take action against the player ( or at least those most responsible too? )

Tennis players like Krygios and the other deplorable Aussie player Tomic have been getting big fines and bans for not putting in sufficient effort. If you're an Everton fan for instance, or even an England fan how are their players meeting expectations?
Why for example does nothing happen to England players for stinking out every tournament and not being able to replicate their club form?

I'm not missing any point. Your complete pack of any nuance for the game means you can't even differentiate between form and effort. How can you appraise form, do you think people try to play poorly for club or country? Look at Stones last year and the overall set up, I told you exactly what needed to happen for him to blossom. Appraisaling him as a 3 shows how clueless you are.

So you'd give Stones more than a 3 last year? It would appear he's improved on this this year, but how exactly did he exceed expectations last year? How could you give him more than a 3, you don't give someone a 4 until they've achieved it.  He was ordinary. A 3 wouldn't be a sacking offence anyway, it's an average mark which means you are doing your job sufficiently but not exemplary.

I think it's hilarious that self confessed football fans think they know all about what effort is and how much someone is putting in just because they attach themselves in a tenuous way to the game from the comfort of their armchair and from MOTD. I might not like the sport of football much these days, but it doesn't mean I haven't done in the past and it doesn't mean that supporting a team gives you any greater insight into what it's like to play, nor does it give you insight into how much effort someone is putting in. You don't know any more about football, just because you support dross like Sunderland, or just because I'm no longer into it as much as I was.

Have you never been to a match where you'd put in more effort than those playing? Where you'd have chased down that ball a bit more?

We have different opinions, and your "knowledge" is no greater or less than mine just because you call yourself a "fan", so stop pretending that you have some sort of special insight into the game, because you haven't. You sound like Ray Houghton "You haven't played the game Adrian" or rather "But you don't support a crappy team in the Championship Super and watch 5 minutes a week on C5 from your armchair, so how can you have an opinion?"

You are basically saying nobody is more of an expert on any subject than anyone else. Everyone is as qualified as anyone else whatever their background. Odd. I think you confuse opinion and knowledge. You might have watched a bit of football 10 years ago, that does not give you the same insight as someone who watched a player or a team regularly. Your opinions, and this is massively obvious in you football posts, are based largely on pre-meditated assumption.
And your appraisal system is quite frankly idiotic.

No, I'm not saying that at all, I'm, saying being a fan of any sport doesn't make you an expert. How many times in a clubhouse or pub have you heard "fans" of any sport talking complete crap? You could follow a team your whole life and not understand the game. You can even manage a club and learn and apparently know nothing, so stop pretending you're some sort of expert, because you're like everyone else on this forum, just an armchair fan.

[Diggers]

Indeed, but a much better informed armchair than you.

[beninho]

What got you interested in football, when did you decide to pay attention to the scores, the formations, the players, the stats, the performances, the history.

Most people I know who support a team have a love of football and are passionate about it. Clearly people have different opinions on players, managers and performances.

I would really like to know, as you have not mentioned any team, and you dont seem to realky like football let alone feel passionately about it, what got you interested in it?

[Diggers]

For every fan that talks crap, there are many who talk sense. People who actually watch because they enjoy the game. People who make judgements based on situations rather than because they hate football and want to appear well enough informed to slag it off.
Do you just judge everyone the same, do you do that in life? Do you thing that every opinion carries the same weight because some people spout crap? How ridiculous is that?
The "fans" that people can't stand are the ones who bang on ad infinitum about the same things over and over again and have literally no sense of objectivity.

[kwinigolfer]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/11/30/dog-shoots-hunter/910650001/

Another victim of the senseless gun culture of the USA.

[pedro]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/11/30/dog-shoots-hunter/910650001/

Another victim of the senseless gun culture of the USA.

Yes it’s senseless that the dog didn’t receive proper gun training..

[super_realist]

Gareth Southgate says England can't go to a World Cup and not try to win????????

What would be wrong with being a bit more honest and simply saying that he's going there to improve on recent results and understand tournament football better?

I doubt their peer group like Sweden or Russia are making such laughable claims.

[beninho]

Do you feel sporty that you can do something during a World Cup finale no matter what it says on those draw balls?
- Yes. Both Peter (Wettergren), me and the entire team have gained the confidence that we have managed well, first in the group play and then in the playoff.

We had the toughest qualification group against the Netherlands and France and we played some really good games,” said Andersson. “If we can play at that level, we can beat any team in the world - including Italy.

[Diggers]

He's been asked in a press conference if he thinks they can win, what do you expect him to say? I personally would be disgusted by any manager of any team who said they thought they had no chance, and that's all he has said, that he refuses to write off winning it. I'd be staggered if any manager going didn't say something similar.
Nice to see you prove the point of my last post, took you all of around 12 hours, you literally can't help yourself.

[super_realist]

I expect the manager of England to be realistic. They haven't won a group game since 2006.

No one in England expects England to win or even challenge, he's not doing anyone a disservice by feeling "under pressure" to make a positive claim on the World Cup.

What would be wrong about saying he's seeking to improve. That's not ruling anything out, but doesn't expose him to the ridicule of saying he's in it to try and win it.

Do you really think the managers of the 25 or so other teams who can't win it are saying they're in it to try and win it in press conferences?

[Diggers]

I expect anyone who goes to a tournament to say their aim is to win it. But it's such a nothing comment, seriously who gives a toss, he would be damned by someone whatever he said either way, any reasonable person would be able to see that. Why do you feel you have to bang on and on about such irrelevances?

[Diggers]

Let's look at what he said...in all seriousness what is remotely controversial about a manager at a press conference saying this:

"We've got to attempt to win each game, be as prepared as we can be, and see how far we can go," the 47-year-old told BBC Sport.

"Of course, a lot of these players are going to peak in two to four years' time, but we can't just write off the tournament. I don't think anyone in England would accept that.

He's hardly giving it the large one. If that sort of comment gives you a hard on then just enjoy it, but you need to get a life.

[super_realist]

"Of course a lot of these players are going to peak in 2 to 4 years time". We hear that every single tournament, and what happens when those 2 or 4 years come round? Home before the postcards.

I agree that the quotes you have said are reasonable by and large, and I don't really have a problem with those, but when he adds. "We cannot go to a World Cup and not try to win it, I don't think people would accept that" is where it is laughable and symptomatic of why England consistently fail. They're not even in the picture to win it.

I would bet that the sane and realistic people in England have already written off the tournament and accept they have no chance of winning. What people in England want is to see an improvement, i.e. perhaps a solid showing which might see them reach a QF. That would represent a massive improvement and be something to build on. Even getting out of the group convincingly would be a result.
No one remotely expects England to win, so it is stupid to say that they are in it to try and win it and is fooling no one, nor would it be letting anyone down "back home".

He tries so hard to be studious, but he's just as inept and as much as of a plank as previous England managers. About time an England manager was actually honest for a change rather than this transparent lie that he's in it to win it, like all the pundits are being about their chances. Nobody would think bad of him for that, and a different approach might even work, but then the FA will never do that.

[beninho]

Now, I may be getting this wrong, but were you not saying players should be sacked for not giving their all when playing for England at an International competition.

Yet, when the manager says the team will set out and try to win it, therefore by giving their all, you think he is an idiot?

What makes you love and passionate about football super, what do you enjoy about it, what got you into it in the first place, who are your favourite players?

[Diggers]

"Of course a lot of these players are going to peak in 2 to 4 years time". We hear that every single tournament, and what happens when those 2 or 4 years come round? Home before the postcards.

I agree that the quotes you have said are reasonable by and large, and I don't really have a problem with those, but when he adds. "We cannot go to a World Cup and not try to win it, I don't think people would accept that" is where it is laughable and symptomatic of why England consistently fail. They're not even in the picture to win it.

I would bet that the sane and realistic people in England have already written off the tournament and accept they have no chance of winning. What people in England want is to see an improvement, i.e. perhaps a solid showing which might see them reach a QF. That would represent a massive improvement and be something to build on. Even getting out of the group convincingly would be a result.
No one remotely expects England to win, so it is stupid to say that they are in it to try and win it and is fooling no one, nor would it be letting anyone down "back home".

He tries so hard to be studious, but he's just as inept and as much as of a plank as previous England managers. About time an England manager was actually honest for a change rather than this transparent lie that he's in it to win it, like all the pundits are being about their chances. Nobody would think bad of him for that, and a different approach might even work, but then the FA will never do that.

Jesus Christ, he didn't say failing to win would let people down. He said going there and not trying in every game...and he clearly talks about game by game...would be letting people down. He's inept and a plank? They have just managed clean sheets against probably the two best sides in the world. Is it his fault they are friendlies (I can guarantee you never watched them so please don't lecture me about how anyone played), his only competitive matches have led to world cup qualification.
How can you judge him as adept and a plank when he hasn't even taken a team to a tournament? You are labeling and judging him simply based on the failings of others, that must be one of the stupidest things any human could do. As I said, utterly lacking any sense of fairness or objectivity.

[super_realist]

Ben, England players can give their all without saying they are trying to win it., the point is that they aren't and probably never will be to win a World Cup or Euro's. So why pretend you're in it to win it?
I expect Peru, Iceland, Denmark etc to try their hardest too, but being the best you can is all you can do, and like those countries, their best isn't good enough to make them Champions, so why pretend?

You can give your all without the unreasonable expectation that you're capable, or even trying to win it.

No one is fooled by Pep Southgate's crass statement, and no one would think less of him if he was realistic in setting out reasonable ambitions for his team.

Diggers, I have watched England games, they were terribly turgid in their recent friendlies and were incredibly lucky to get draws against teams which dominated them for most of the game. What have you seen in Southgate which makes him look like he's going to achieve anything? Even Scotland nearly beat them for goodness sake.

[beninho]

Who do you think will win the world cup and why?

[pedro]

Southgate is just saying what the FA hired him to say.

[Diggers]

Lucky? They were also unlucky not to end up winning both games. What do I like, I like the fact he is blooding young players. I like the fact he is looking at a 3 at the back. We were desperately short of centre backs before the Euros, now it's looking like a position of strength and it frees up the wing backs. We have some guys who can play from the back, I know you are utterly clueless understanding just how important it is, but it's massive, especially in international matches.
Do you expect him to wave a magic wand, as you say England were coming from a poor position. He has barely had a dozen games, he clearly is looking at youth based on the massive success of the age groups...not sure if you've noticed but 20 year olds like Gomez and Solanki are starting to get games in the Premier League.
England have qualified, turgid of not. The new system in the last 2 games wasn't turgid, it was more more fluid. They looked really good in patches, did you expect them to utterly dominate Germany and Brazil?
We need more in midfield, it's way to early for Loftus Cheek, he should go to the world cup though. We do have Lallana coming back though, I think he would thrive in a 3 at the back.

[JAS]

Green...should he stay or should he go?

[beninho]

I think I would be sacked if I was watching Porn on my work computer, but then I would not be able to because of the blocked access for certain sites. Can even get on gambling on my mobile via the work wifi.

But...I really dont like how it has come out, but....if he goes then David Davies walks in support...

[McLaren]

I though pronhub was running so quickly because everyone was watching the Tiger return, turns out green got his computer confiscated.

[JAS]

The fact that the retired police fella is now under scrutiny for revealing something he was clearly told to shut up about says it all really.

I just don’t get why Green never said “yeah, I’m partial to a bit of filth...so what?” Now he’s lied so vociferously he cant have any trust/credibility left surely??

[beninho]

Its the lying about it which is the problem, would he have been sacked for liking to bang one out? Maybe not, just ride out a bit of embarrassment and slap on the wrist ( which could be his thing).

The whole situation stinks though, the police could not have given a damn about it back when it was found, but one guy obviously thought he could make something out of it. Its really poor from those involved.

[McLaren]

Who cares how the tory f***ers fall just as long as they do.

[McLaren]

Even England can get out of a group with Belgium, Tunisia and Panama.

[Diggers]

Decent world cup drawer. Belgium have some cracking players, no doubt about that, but most of them are in the Premier League so no real mysteries. Can't say I know too much about Panama or Tunisia, probably technically decent but a bit lacking overall.

[pedro]

What does super say? Must be even odds?

[super_realist]

I'm not sure if England can say that any draw is a good draw these days. They said the same in the Euro's and in the last World Cup and look what happened. Marginally better than facing Germany or Brazil, but can't really see them being in a better position than they were before the draw was made, they're still second favourite in their groups.

I would think all the other teams are not fretting about having to face England, so perhaps it's a better draw for them than it is for England.

[Diggers]

Very comfortable second favorites, which is why it's a good draw. Belgium is a tough game, but they have also disappointed at recent tournaments. It's the third and fourth teams that make it a decent drawer (on paper, which is all we can judge it against).

[super_realist]

I think I've just heard Pep Southgate say the most sensible thing an England manager has ever said.

"We've been very good at writing off teams and then getting beat"

It's only taken 50 years. Well done Gareth, maybe not quite the plank I thought.

[navyblueshorts]

Green...should he stay or should he go?

Hard to say.

Why wasn't this an issue ~9 years ago, or whenever it was?
Can they prove it was him (OK, so retired officer expert claims it must have been him) ?
It's not illegal pornography, so who actually cares?
If he did it, is denying it a sackable offence (would think it understandable he'd be embarrassed enough to deny it) ?

Clearly another fine mess...

[navyblueshorts]

The fact that the retired police fella is now under scrutiny for revealing something he was clearly told to shut up about says it all really.

I just don’t get why Green never said “yeah, I’m partial to a bit of filth...so what?”  Now he’s lied so vociferously he cant have any trust/credibility left surely??

True, but you actually believe anything that any of them come out with? Ever? I mean that in an entirely cross-party sense as well. Lying through one's teeth most of the time is part of being a politician it would seem.

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