Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

I think bailly does look a good prospect, but he is pretty raw. The spurs pairing is probably the best in tge league as a partnership. I think mendy looks an immense left back, alonso also good, I think rose is better then bertrand though, when fit. I remember a time when full backs had to defend!

[kwinigolfer]

If these reports that "Van Dyk to Liverpool for 75M pounds" are accurate, Klopp can have no further excuses; now in his third year and maybe this is his final piece of the puzzle?
Not sure but certainly boosts the number of ex-Saints after Clyne, Lallana, Lovren, Mane (and Ricky Lambert).

[beninho]

The lewis hamilton thing is stupid from all parts. The need to post it on social media is daft, people complaining are daft. Its cowpat all round.

Van dyk seems like an awful lot of money, but I have no fricking idea what is ecpensive and what isnt anymore.

[Diggers]

Lovren was seen as a good buy at the time, nobody was slating him then. Not sure Van Dijk will instantly solve all their problems, but if they find a quality DM as well then they could be on their way.

[beninho]

I wouldn't be surprised is Newcastle draw with city tonight.

[super_realist]

Liverpool will probably get it back again in 2 seasons if he does well.

If Van Dyke is as good as we're supposed to believe, he's not going to hang around at Liveinthepastpool.

[Diggers]

Doesn't spending 75m show they aren't just living in the past? You had a go at them a few days ago for being a selling club.

[super_realist]

Doesn't spending 75m show they aren't just living in the past? You had a go at them a few days ago for being a selling club.

It's an ambitious move for a team like Liverpool to spend money like that, but top players won't stay at  teams like Liverpool and Spurs who don't win things, and who can blame them. If you're Bale, Suarez, Alonso, Modric etc why stay and win nothing?
If he's a success, they know they'll get most if not all back if he goes to a City, United, Bayern, PSG, Milan, Barca, Real type of club. It's like PCP for football players.

I'm more surprised that Van Dyke is happy to go there, than I am at Liverpool spending that much money for a club their size.

[beninho]

I'm guessing this was agreed in the summer, with the price being pumped up to stop saints taking the tapping up claim any further. I wonder if celtic have a decent sell on clause.

In todays football 75m isnt really much to the worlds biggest clubs.

[Diggers]

It's a big step up for him, from Celtic and a crap league to a smallish no pressure club like Southampton to Liverpool is a good career progression. He goes into side pushing for top 4 and in the knockout stages of the Champions League and they are a team who can definitely beat (and lose to) anyone. Plus he's probably trebled his wages. I'd say Liverpool are ambitious at the moment, they would be an exciting place for most players to go to.
Are they one of the very biggest, no, but having won European Cups does make you well known, are they one of the 12 biggest in Europe still, probably. That makes them a pretty big club.

[kwinigolfer]

I'm guessing this was agreed in the summer, with the price being pumped up to stop saints taking the tapping up claim any further. I wonder if celtic have a decent sell on clause.

In todays football 75m isnt really much to the worlds biggest clubs.

I believe Celtic get 10%.

[beninho]

All depends what you class asca big club. Everyone has own views and opinions. Dont think its just current success, forbes have them as 9tjmost valuable in the world, out of that list I would class them bigget then chelsea and city,maybe even arsenal, just.

[Diggers]

All PSG have to make them a big club is cash, and apparently they have less of that than Liverpool. No history and domestic trophies nobody gives a toss about.

[beninho]

I'm guessing this was agreed in the summer, with the price being pumped up to stop saints taking the tapping up claim any further. I wonder if celtic have a decent sell on clause.

In todays football 75m isnt really much to the worlds biggest clubs.

I believe Celtic get 10%.

An easy 7.5m then, but im surprised its not more.

Better then wycombe, we cashed in on a matt phillips sell on for 200k, then blackpool sold him to qpr and we lost out on 800k!

[beninho]

I dont see psg asca big club, a rich one but 11th on the forbes list

[Diggers]

I know Ben, and as you say it's all about definitions of what's big. Arsenal and City need a Champions League win really to earn a bit more of a pedigree.

[beninho]

Arsenal have been successful on and off for years, a lack of the european cup doesnt have a massive impact, I see them as bigger then chelsea who have a european cup.

[Diggers]

Not sure I agree, you can make a case both ways. Chelsea far more successful for a decade domestically (won 5 titles since Arsenal won their last one) plus a Champions League. I'd say in terms of attracting players they have more draw currently, they certainly pay more. Arsenal more history and a huge stadium (though not necessarily a bigger following).

[Diggers]

Sterling minces his way to scoring another winner.

[pedro]

If you're Bale, Suarez, Alonso, Modric etc why stay and win nothing?

The 4 players you chose to mention happened to go to the top two clubs in the world, Barca and Real M. So you’re basically saying Liverpool or Spurs aren’t Barca or Real M. I think we all know that. But thanks for reminding. And unlike those two clubs Liverpool and Spurs don’t buy established names, but develop lesser names into top drawer players, again and again, just look at the current top 4 in both clubs. What else to do if you don’t have the allure of Barca and Real?

[pedro]

Lovren was seen as a good buy at the time, nobody was slating him then. Not sure Van Dijk will instantly solve all their problems, but if they find a quality DM as well then they could be on their way.

I assume DM stands for ‘goalkeeper’?

[pedro]

Not sure but certainly boosts the number of ex-Saints after Clyne, Lallana, Lovren, Mane (and Ricky Lambert).

Ironically Grobbelaar went the other way. Maybe they could sneak him back in...

[kwinigolfer]

Not sure but certainly boosts the number of ex-Saints after Clyne, Lallana, Lovren, Mane (and Ricky Lambert).

Ironically Grobbelaar went the other way. Maybe they could sneak him back in...

And Kevin Keegan? That would help.

[Diggers]

Lovren was seen as a good buy at the time, nobody was slating him then. Not sure Van Dijk will instantly solve all their problems, but if they find a quality DM as well then they could be on their way.

I assume DM stands for ‘goalkeeper’?

Funnily enough I don't mind Mignolet, think to a degree he's a been a bit of scapegoat. Then again I'm biased because he was brilliant for Sunderland. I accept he's no De Gea though.

[super_realist]

If you're Bale, Suarez, Alonso, Modric etc why stay and win nothing?

The 4 players you chose to mention happened to go to the top two clubs in the world, Barca and Real M. So you’re basically saying Liverpool or Spurs aren’t Barca or Real M. I think we all know that. But thanks for reminding. And unlike those two clubs Liverpool and Spurs don’t buy established names, but develop lesser names into top drawer players, again and again, just look at the current top 4 in both clubs. What else to do if you don’t have the allure of Barca and Real?

So why go to a team like Liverpool? Why not go to AC Milan, Inter, PSG, Dortmund, Munich, Man United or City? All bigger clubs than Liverpool, and very much more likely to actually win something and get to the latter stages of European competition.

This will be a short visit for Van Dyke if he's as good as his price tag. A staging post for when he will be at his peak from 28-32.

Either Liverpool have played too much because of the money of the Premier League or top teams simply weren't interested in him, because if they were, there's no way you'd pick Liverpool over the clubs I mentioned.

[super_realist]

It's a big step up for him, from Celtic and a crap league to a smallish no pressure club like Southampton to Liverpool is a good career progression. He goes into side pushing for top 4 and in the knockout stages of the Champions League and they are a team who can definitely beat (and lose to) anyone. Plus he's probably trebled his wages. I'd say Liverpool are ambitious at the moment, they would be an exciting place for most players to go to.
Are they one of the very biggest, no, but having won European Cups does make you well known, are they one of the 12 biggest in Europe still, probably. That makes them a pretty big club.

Being "big" or "rich" doesn't really make you a good team or likely to win anything. On the same basis of history and fanbase you could argue that the Ugly Sisters of Glasgow are big clubs, but what really matters if you are a top player is trophies. Are Liverpool a team capable of winning anything important? They might win a league cup or maybe even an FA Cup, but it's Leagues and Europe that matter.

Good luck to Van Dyke, and it's a coup for Liverpool (although strange no one else seemed interested) but I don't see him being there beyond 2 years. If he went to Arsenal I'd also say that was a bum move, because like Liverpool , they're also a team likely to not win anything of note.

[Diggers]

They could win a league, to be honest this year the Champions League looks wide open, I wouldn't be surprised to see Liverpool make the semis or better.
Teams aren't static in terms of status, you seem to think they should forget the past but have no ambition. Why, it makes no sense. PSG and City could dominate, or they might drift away. If Liverpool are the 8th richest club, can sign players like Salah and Van Dijk, have a big profile manager, surely the last thing they've are doing is living in the past. Makes no sense at all. You really do have rigid views on things, in this case mainly disliking scousers I'd say.

[kwinigolfer]

Carvalhal to Swansea - not sure I understand why someone who has failed in the Championship all of a sudden becomes suitable for Premier management, but Swansea have done some pretty stupid things recently and this seems no different. Things look like they must get worse there before they can expect to get better.

[Diggers]

If you're Bale, Suarez, Alonso, Modric etc why stay and win nothing?

The 4 players you chose to mention happened to go to the top two clubs in the world, Barca and Real M. So you’re basically saying Liverpool or Spurs aren’t Barca or Real M. I think we all know that. But thanks for reminding. And unlike those two clubs Liverpool and Spurs don’t buy established names, but develop lesser names into top drawer players, again and again, just look at the current top 4 in both clubs. What else to do if you don’t have the allure of Barca and Real?

So why go to a team like Liverpool? Why not go to AC Milan, Inter, PSG, Dortmund, Munich, Man United or City? All bigger clubs than Liverpool, and very much more likely to actually win something and get to the latter stages of European competition.

This will be a short visit for Van Dyke if he's as good as his price tag. A staging post for when he will be at his peak from 28-32.

Either Liverpool have played too much because of the money of the Premier League or top teams simply weren't interested in him, because if they were, there's no way you'd pick Liverpool over the clubs I mentioned.

OK, question for you. Did Chelsea and City become big clubs by winning titles, then spend more money to keep winning? Or did spending money make them big clubs as it enabled them to eventually win things? I sincerely hope you'd accept that prior to their spending neither club was anywhere near the status Liverpool have.

[beninho]

Carvalhal to Swansea - not sure I understand why someone who has failed in the Championship all of a sudden becomes suitable for Premier management, but Swansea have done some pretty stupid things recently and this seems no different. Things look like they must get worse there before they can expect to get better.

Hard to say he failed, he took over a team who finished 13th, and got them into the playoffs twice, a poor start this year though has cost him, but thats due to his performances over the previous years which raised expectations.

[kwinigolfer]

But regression after a couple of seasons of progress is hardly success, is it? Wonder how McLaren will fare if he gets the Wednesday job.

[beninho]

There is plenty in between success and failure. Though its hard to find a nanager that has been a success at each club he's been at.

[super_realist]

They could win a league, to be honest this year the Champions League looks wide open, I wouldn't be surprised to see Liverpool make the semis or better.
Teams aren't static in terms of status, you seem to think they should forget the past but have no ambition. Why, it makes no sense. PSG and City could dominate, or they might drift away. If Liverpool are the 8th richest club, can sign players like Salah and Van Dijk, have a big profile manager, surely the last thing they've are doing is living in the past. Makes no sense at all. You really do have rigid views on things, in this case mainly disliking scousers I'd say.

They live in the past the way the English national football team does. They think that because they've won 5 European Cups, that they should always be considered a big club. Not so. Ajax have done well in Europe, winning the EC three times, yet they're not hanging on to their past like a badge of honour the way Liverpool (fans) do.

I don't dislike Scousers at all, I do dislike teams who think they deserve a certain status because of previous achievements long long long ago.

I really can't see Liverpool winning anything. Salah will be sold in the summer most probably, and it's not a done deal that Dick Van Dijk will improve the leaky and poorly organised Kevin Keegan style defence. They do well in the fact that most years they are in and around 4th place. Not that impressive for a team which reportedly is Europe's 8th richest is it?

[Diggers]

You didn't answer my question from my other post.

[Diggers]

And why don't you think Ajax fans remember and are proud of once being a European force, have you taken a poll, gone and chatted to them? If I see Ajax play I remember that they've done and the players they have had, so I'm sure as hell their fans do too.

[beninho]

8rh on the rich list, behind city, united, chelsea, arsenal. So what a ridiculous argument that they finish 4th.

Founded on March 18, 1900 AFC Ajax is one of the largest and most storied clubs in European football. Thats from the ajax website. But they dont think of themselves as a big club.

[beninho]

Clubs should be proud of their history. Part of being a fan is remembering the good days, I dont know who everyone on here supports, in fact it would be interesting to know. But history of a club is what got you involved in the first place.clubs with a rich history should sing it from the rooftops. Real madrid still celebrate the early years of the european cup, di stefano used to be at player introductions.

I have no idea whats wrong with celebrating past success

[kwinigolfer]

Clubs should be proud of their history. Part of being a fan is remembering the good days, I dont know who everyone on here supports, in fact it would be interesting to know. But history of a club is what got you involved in the first place.clubs with a rich history should sing it from the rooftops. Real madrid still celebrate the early years of the european cup, di stefano used to be at player introductions.

I have no idea whats wrong with celebrating past success

Completely agree with that, but also don't reckon LFC are that far away; but losing Coutinho would be a serious step backwards - I wonder if the Fenway guys are prepared to let that happen. They've been extremely focussed on winning championships with the Red Sox and can see them starting to get closer with Liverpool. It'll be interesting to see what happens to Sturridge next month; right now he's among the biggest wastes of talent over the past five years.

[westisbest]

Clubs should be proud of their history. Part of being a fan is remembering the good days, I dont know who everyone on here supports, in fact it would be interesting to know. But history of a club is what got you involved in the first place.clubs with a rich history should sing it from the rooftops. Real madrid still celebrate the early years of the european cup, di stefano used to be at player introductions.

I have no idea whats wrong with celebrating past success

Agree.
It’s great to look back on trophies won. Games you were at along the way etc.

I support Villa

We have a good history and won things.

A distant memory now.
Enjoyable while it lasted.

Not great times at the moment.

[Diggers]

Sunderland, once known as the Bank of England club, the Citeh of the 1940's...apart from it never worked! Still, will always have 1973, aged 6 first match I remember watching.
Hopefully Couthino will stay until the summer, he should, won't really contribute much to a La Liga title and won't be free to play Champions League. He's pretty much the perfect replacement for Iniesta, though those are some big, big boots to fill.

[kwinigolfer]

1940's?
Now you're talking. One club held the Cup for half the decade and squeezed in two Championships as well. PUP. It's just the last 66 years where we've had some problems . . . . . . . . .

Another typical Arsenal performance.

[super_realist]

Clubs should be proud of their history. Part of being a fan is remembering the good days, I dont know who everyone on here supports, in fact it would be interesting to know. But history of a club is what got you involved in the first place.clubs with a rich history should sing it from the rooftops. Real madrid still celebrate the early years of the european cup, di stefano used to be at player introductions.

I have no idea whats wrong with celebrating past success

It doesn't help you move forward, and Liverpool for example certainly haven't moved forward. Never having won the Premier League having repeatedly won the old First Division.

Look at City, they don't look in their past do they? They were crap for years and years with just the odd Franny Lee times to look lovingly on. What would they gain from looking at the past?

History is a "nice to have" but it doesn't win you more trophies, and in some ways, can hold you back if you think it's expected you should win things and hold on to a belief you are still one of the big teams, when you repeatedly win nothing.

[Diggers]

It can help you sign players, footballers tend to know the history of the clubs they are going to. It's not like Liverpool have disappeared into another division, we simply saw the rise of a big Man Utd and Arsenal dynasty and then big money change Chelsea and City. During that time Liverpool still won trophies, challenged for the league and won a Champions League and then reached a Champions League final.
They clearly have huge ambition, let's face it what Chelsea and City have done proves without doubt pretty much any club can become huge with the right amount of investment. So will Liverpool become a title winning club again, IMO it's almost inevitable that will happen at some stage. It might be next year or in 20 years, but there is no logic in thinking the list of winner should won't change or that clubs shouldn't strive for success ...as recent history proves.

[Diggers]

Kudos to Vincent Kompany. 5 years part time study and he now has a degree and an MBA. Could argue he had the time and money, can also argue he had no need to do the course. Just seen an interview with him, very amusing, articulate and self deprecating, all done in a second language. Impressive stuff, a man to watch after he stops playing. Guys like him, smart and financially independent, could have a role in running FIFA in an acceptable way.

[super_realist]

It can help you sign players, footballers tend to know the history of the clubs they are going to. It's not like Liverpool have disappeared into another division, we simply saw the rise of a big Man Utd and Arsenal  dynasty and then big money change Chelsea and City. During that time Liverpool still won trophies, challenged for the league and won a Champions League and then reached a Champions League final.
They clearly have huge ambition, let's face it what Chelsea and City have done proves without doubt pretty much any club can become huge with the right amount of investment. So will Liverpool become a title winning club again, IMO it's almost inevitable that will happen at some stage. It might be next year or in 20 years, but there is no logic in thinking the list of winner should won't change or that clubs shouldn't strive for success ...as recent history proves.

The only way I can see that happening is if A)they get City/Chelsea style type investment, B) they get a new 60k+ stadium .

There's just too many clubs that are a more attractive proposition for the class of player who can win leagues.

I can't see them doing better than they currently are without A+B. Without doubt they're regular top 6 team, but they never seem to have a settled team as people don't seem to hang around there for long who are capable of winning leagues.

[Diggers]

Crowds don't seem to make a difference, look at Arsenal. Sure you need to spend big, but it's who you buy and how you play those guys that matters.
My point is recent history shows that Liverpool clearly are capable of winning titles, they have the money already. They are way better positioned than Chelsea or City were (you still never answered my question by the way).
Also, there is no evidence that Liverpool fans or the club live in the past, certainly no more than any other club. In fact they are far less guilty of this as they are clearly actively trying to forge future success rather than resting on their laurels.

[super_realist]

Arsenal have had a better history of attracting higher quality signings than Liverpool have, and have been able to hang on to them better. Some of that might be more to do with London being more attractive than Liverpool.
Of course Liverpool are rich, but do you think they could really attract people like De Bruyne, Pogba, Ibrahimovic, Ozil, Aguerro or Kane?
Liverpool clearly like something.

[beninho]

Man city changed their crest to resemble the badge which was introduced in the 70's, they have a stand named after Colin Bell, and a stand known as the kippax, mike summerbee is a club ambassador, they have a fanzine called ling of the kippax, yet man city dont look at their past?

Every club does, whether its naming stands, designing kits thsts football. Football fans love the history of their club.

I have no idea what celebrating your clubs history and moving forward have got to do with each other. Its all a bit nonsensical.

All football fans have is history, history of your first game, stories from your family, stories of big wins, crushing defeats.

I remember Wycombe playing liverpool in the fa cup semi, playing chelsea in the league cup semi, doing the double over man city in the early 2000's, giving spurs a game last season.

Basically, you seem to be chatting cowpat. But your not a fan, so dont have the same feelings as most of us on here.

[Diggers]

Well if yo are being bothered about crowds, Anfiekds capacity is now 54k and plans are being made to make it 60 plus. Ambition met, building for the future continues. Not that it's a problem for Chelsea.

[beninho]

Liverpool have also already signed Naby Keita from Leipzig, who turned down Barcelona to koin.Liverpool next summer.

[Diggers]

List of best attended clubs in Europe. Certainly doesn't make Serie A an attractive place to go to.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/6dmpmx/top_100_clubs_with_the_biggest_average_attendance/

[Sponsored content]