Tiger's back

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This needs its own thread, if only to provide a forum for super to vent his frothy outrage.

So what do we think of his back? And is he really back, or is it just another false dawn?

Personally I think this hero fun comp is the perfect chance to return.. small field, no cut, limited pressure. Although this could be a bit of Kevin Spacey style deflection after his recent court appearance.

navyblueshorts wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
Actually I like the stories and the duels most (Stenson/Phil, Sergio/Phil, etc); don't watch anywhere near as much golf as you might think (certainly watch more footie), but I also like to be supportive of the best stars. Tiger is a genius but also an (to me anyway) unlikeable diva.

But, despite my facetious response, your point about golf in the 00's was a good one - but his last Major was ten years ago and my interest has moved on. Wish the media's would too, but no chance of that. Perhaps he will now re-earn all that coverage (and moolah), so that is intriguing.

No way José. Too much of a gravy train for them to ride. More's the pity for the rest of us...
I wish him well as a player, but I never liked his demeanour in the past and the media circus was . Some not his fault to be fair.

I haven't watched much golf for a while, I'm pretty sure I'd watch more if Woods was in the mix. Don't really know why, for me his presence when playing well (one of the best ever to swing a club) adds a bit of lustre to any tournament. That's a long way off yet though, but about as positive a comeback as he could have dreamed about.

68 then... 137 at halfway. Not bad at all, but for perspective this time last year he was 138. That season didn’t go well.

Haven’t changed my view from yesterday, irons and fairway woods look very good, short game and driving look dodgy.

Watched most of today's round, minus 6 after 11 holes, plus 2 for the final 7.
Thought he looked pretty good, superb to start with, perhaps ran out of steam/focus in the end, blames the speed of the greens. Mid-season form then. Weekend will be interesting.
Would think he'd at least be sufficiently encouraged to think about the next few tournaments - can't wait to see him at Torrey Pines where he would customarily tee it up next.

Also haven’t changed my view from yesterday that the course is crap.

kwinigolfer wrote:Watched most of today's round, minus 6 after 11 holes, plus 2 for the final 7.
Thought he looked pretty good, superb to start with, perhaps ran out of steam/focus in the end, blames the speed of the greens. Mid-season form then. Weekend will be interesting.
Would think he'd at least be sufficiently encouraged to think about the next few tournaments - can't wait to see him at Torrey Pines where he would customarily tee it up next.

The irony is that he comes out with the usual clichés about how much fun he's having, yet looks at every moment that he's just licked out Diane Abbot.

super_realist wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:Watched most of today's round, minus 6 after 11 holes, plus 2 for the final 7.
Thought he looked pretty good, superb to start with, perhaps ran out of steam/focus in the end, blames the speed of the greens. Mid-season form then. Weekend will be interesting.
Would think he'd at least be sufficiently encouraged to think about the next few tournaments - can't wait to see him at Torrey Pines where he would customarily tee it up next.

The irony is that he comes out with the usual clichés about how much fun he's having, yet looks at every moment that he's just licked out Diane Abbot.

The real irony is that you feel qualified to comment on what someone having fun might look like.

Graphic description of what "fun might (not) look like" though. Ghastly thought.


Highlight from Friday's TV coverage was Jim Mackay's on-course commentary; amidst all the Tiger/Rickie/Jordan/Justin hoopla and hoo ha, he was very much Golf First - had nothing but good things to say about Molinari, the man and his golf. And very objective and insightful about Woods.

super_realist wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:Watched most of today's round, minus 6 after 11 holes, plus 2 for the final 7.
Thought he looked pretty good, superb to start with, perhaps ran out of steam/focus in the end, blames the speed of the greens. Mid-season form then. Weekend will be interesting.
Would think he'd at least be sufficiently encouraged to think about the next few tournaments - can't wait to see him at Torrey Pines where he would customarily tee it up next.

The irony is that he comes out with the usual clichés about how much fun he's having, yet looks at every moment that he's just licked out Diane Abbot.

To be fair, there haven't ever been that many Lee Trevinos. What do you want? Michael McIntyre(sp?) with a golf club? Hardly likely is it?

I know what I'd like to do with McIntyre and a golf club.

kwinigolfer wrote:Graphic description of what "fun might (not) look like" though. Ghastly thought.


Highlight from Friday's TV coverage was Jim Mackay's on-course commentary; amidst all the Tiger/Rickie/Jordan/Justin hoopla and hoo ha, he was very much Golf First - had nothing but good things to say about Molinari, the man and his golf. And very objective and insightful about Woods.

Bones did say Tiger was exercising good course mgt on hole #7 when he layed up in the rough off the tee and then put his 2nd shot (wedge from rough) into a bunker.

GPB wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:Graphic description of what "fun might (not) look like" though. Ghastly thought.


Highlight from Friday's TV coverage was Jim Mackay's on-course commentary; amidst all the Tiger/Rickie/Jordan/Justin hoopla and hoo ha, he was very much Golf First - had nothing but good things to say about Molinari, the man and his golf. And very objective and insightful about Woods.

Bones did say Tiger was exercising good course mgt on hole #7 when he layed up in the rough off the tee and then put his 2nd shot (wedge from rough) into a bunker.

Aah! Was multi-tasking then, didn't see it!! That's not good. Playing with Hideki today; Fleetwood got held at home in the Cup - hope Tommy does better playing on Rosey's home pitch.

To be fair, iron off the tee was a percentage play after a few wayward drives on Thursday; and having messed up that percentage play leaving the wedge short was the best place to miss. Not a well played hole, but shot-by-shot it was sensible, especially when Tiger of old loved a 1000-1 shot.

Bit of a deja vu to last year so far today

More important things to watch today but just caught up on the front nine with the Tiger Tracker who seems deflated.
Same old Bahamas song/swoon for Tiger.

Thing is, whether he plays carp this weekend or not, he must have seen enough in Rounds 1 & 2 to plan a schedule, fitness permitting. Nine shots worse on his Round 3 front nine compared to Round 2 though.

Is this not just exactly what happened last year? I said last night he’d only shot one better than his first two rounds twelve months ago. He fell away the weekend then, and never played as well again before getting crippled again. Not sure why this should be different at this point.

Let’s see after tomorrow. So far he’s doing at least as good as half the field. Which is not too bad.

Needs More Reps has never been good in bad weather.

navyblueshorts wrote:

super_realist wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:Watched most of today's round, minus 6 after 11 holes, plus 2 for the final 7.
Thought he looked pretty good, superb to start with, perhaps ran out of steam/focus in the end, blames the speed of the greens. Mid-season form then. Weekend will be interesting.
Would think he'd at least be sufficiently encouraged to think about the next few tournaments - can't wait to see him at Torrey Pines where he would customarily tee it up next.

The irony is that he comes out with the usual clichés about how much fun he's having, yet looks at every moment that he's just licked out Diane Abbot.

To be fair, there haven't ever been that many Lee Trevinos. What do you want? Michael McIntyre(sp?) with a golf club? Hardly likely is it?

Why wouldn't you at least raise a smile when you've made birdie? He's been out for ages, he's having a round he couldn't even dream about having, but he looks like someone has just shat in his mouth.

He doesn't even have to smile, just look pleased, but I've never seen anyone so sullen and so miserable on a course, you'd think he'd just shot 80, not 68.

super_realist wrote:Needs More Reps has never been good in bad weather.

Apart from when he won the Open when it blowing a hoolie.

"Tiger's back", clothed in Sunday red, the front too. Patrick Reed dressed similarly, just the right shade of red by the looks of it.

Lots of people going low ... and Tiger looking good. Must be the weather

Tiger looking good alright, great so see him back and looking relatively pain free. Really impressed with some of his play. Great stuff from Rickie too. Sets up 2018 well....

Upside: Hit some wonderful shots, driving it OK, seemed pain-free.
Downside: He won't be playing many Championship courses that have 2 x driveable par-4's and 5 x par-5's.

But: Exceeded most expectations, doncha think?

Bad: He has something of a Catch-22 regarding his schedule, needs to pile up some owgr points fast to gain entry into WGC's, but doesn't want to play more than his usual schedule. San Diego? Possibly LA, Honda, Bay Hill - does that give him adequate "reps" for Augusta?
Good: His owgr divisor is just 4, I think, so if he shows some form he'll rocket up the owgr's - 500+ places just this week according to pd.

Diggers wrote:

super_realist wrote:Needs More Reps has never been good in bad weather.

Apart from when he won the Open when it blowing a hoolie.

I think you're mistaken Diggers, 2000, 2005 and 2006 were pretty decent weather. 2 at St.Andrews and one at Hoylake. Hoylake especially, was glorious.

It was 2010 that blew a hoolie, and Oosthuizen won.

So he had a half decent showing which is more than can be said of the golfing media. Couldn’t believe that 30 holes in I.e. after 12 holes of his Friday round they were bringing him into 25/1 for the Masters...seriously??? I just can’t see him make that leap even if his new swing is so much more controlled. In my humble opinion he needs to play more to put his short game under more competitive pressure. I doubt he’ll play more than a small handful of tournaments before April (the usual suspects of Torrey, Riviera & Bay Hill) Certainly don’t see him repeating last years faux pas of sitting in a plane for 15 hours en route to the desert. he’s caught between protecting his back and the need to play himself into competitive form. So forgive my cynicism, I may we’ll be proved wrong but I just don’t see a workable scenario where he manoeuvres himself back to the top of the game, the game has moved on.

super_realist wrote:

Diggers wrote:

super_realist wrote:Needs More Reps has never been good in bad weather.

Apart from when he won the Open when it blowing a hoolie.

I think you're mistaken Diggers, 2000, 2005 and 2006 were pretty decent weather. 2 at St.Andrews and one at Hoylake. Hoylake especially,  was glorious.

It was 2010 that blew a hoolie, and Oosthuizen won.

Fair enough, I'm thinking 2006 as he played 3 wood, but thinking back that was more to do with the penal rough and hard fairways. I'm pretty sure some of his umpteenth wins must have been in poor weather though, seems impossible for it not to be the case.

Surely it should be easy for Woods to make a workable schedule if he wants to. From mid January the PGA tour has four tournaments in California and one in Arizona, minimal travelling involved in those. Then 3 out of four weeks are in Florida where he lives anyway, the off week being Puerto Rico and the Mexico WGC. Then two tournaments in Texas, then the Masters. Very easy to play 3/4 California events, 3 Florida events, and one in Texas for fine tuning, and that’s 8 or 9 before Augusta easy. Only major travelling is across to California and back to Dlorida a month later.

But of course the ego of the man means he won’t play regular tour events that aren’t “big” enough for him; hates playing a full schedule cos it’s beneath him even when it would help him; and would rather globetrot for money and prestige than save on travelling to protect his health.

Yep the 2nd paragraph sums up his dilemma pretty much spot on Ned.

But I don’t think he’ll ever fly commercial again…

pedro wrote:But I don’t think he’ll ever fly commercial again…

TWA only for him. Pity Flying Tigers aren't still going . . . . .

Diggers wrote:

super_realist wrote:

Diggers wrote:

super_realist wrote:Needs More Reps has never been good in bad weather.

Apart from when he won the Open when it blowing a hoolie.

I think you're mistaken Diggers, 2000, 2005 and 2006 were pretty decent weather. 2 at St.Andrews and one at Hoylake. Hoylake especially,  was glorious.

It was 2010 that blew a hoolie, and Oosthuizen won.

Fair enough, I'm thinking 2006 as he played 3 wood, but thinking back that was more to do with the penal rough and hard fairways. I'm pretty sure some of his umpteenth wins must have been in poor weather though, seems impossible for it not to be the case.

Fair enough, I probably should have said he historically struggles in bad weather compared to some others.

He was terrible at Muirfield in bad weather in 2002, and later in Carnoustie, but then he's not the only player to be like that, but the difference between his best in good weather and how he performs in wind is marked.

To be fair to Super, Tiger's Open wins did all come in decent weather. 2006 especially when he famously only hit one driver all week and consistently played 4 iron off the tee. He finished dead last in driving distance that week.

But he's had some good finishes in Opens when the weather has not been kind. He finished one shot behind in 1998 at Birkdale when I think it was wet and windy.

Bad weather, as in bad, brings the element of ‘chance’ much more into play. So no surprise Woods wasn’t as dominant in bad weather.

raycastleunited wrote:To be fair to Super, Tiger's Open wins did all come in decent weather. 2006 especially when he famously only hit one driver all week and consistently played 4 iron off the tee. He finished dead last in driving distance that week.

But he's had some good finishes in Opens when the weather has not been kind. He finished one shot behind in 1998 at Birkdale when I think it was wet and windy.

If he'd hit driver more at 2006, I think he would have lost there, he's awful in terms of accuracy with driver and Hoylake was tight. I'm surprised his good course management of that tournament was rarely employed anywhere else. I reckon he could have 20 majors by now if he had a brain. Thankfully he doesn't.

pedro wrote:Bad weather, as in bad, brings the element of ‘chance’ much more into play. So no surprise Woods wasn’t as dominant in bad weather.

A little bit, but skill in bad weather is another thing cf. skill in perfect conditions. Better to say that bad weather exaggerates the results of a poor golf shot. Maybe Woods never learnt, or wanted to learn, how to play in wind/rain. To be fair, he's had no need to has he?

We discuss Tiger's wayward driving a lot, but he has won a lot of tournaments where he hit driver extensively. He dominated TOC in 2000, hitting driver a lot, and didn't find a bunker all week.

Best shot I have ever witnessed was Tiger's second shot on the par 5 14th at TOC in 2000: driver off the deck into the wind. I don't think he actually quite found the green, but I was standing really close and the club head speed, sound off the club face, and sweetness of the strike were incredible. Just a different level to anyone else back then.

The only other time I've ever been astounded by the sound of a golf shot was hearing the thump when Dustin belts his driver.

Be interesting to actually know exactly who has won the most tournaments in poor weather. If a player has only won lets say 10 tournaments, but 5 were in poor weather, he would be deemed a good poor weather player. If a player has won 80 tournaments, 5 of which were in bad weather, then surely he is just as good as the first example in bad weather (assuming they have both played the same amount of tournaments).
When I say interesting maybe I'm slightly exaggerating...

TOC is so out of date that even someone of my length, considerably shorter than 9C rarely goes in a bunker there. The risk of going in one is tiny.
Also, if you're driving the ball like Stevie Wonder as Needs More Reps does, you're even less likely to end up in one. TOC is probably one the best courses in the world to be one of the worst drivers.

Saw an interesting article lately too that compared the average drives of the longest players of the last 20 years, interestingly not a fag paper between them. So all this talk of changing the ball, should have been happening back then too.

super_realist wrote:TOC is so out of date that even someone of my length, considerably shorter than 9C rarely goes in a bunker there. The risk of going in one is tiny.
Also, if you're driving the ball like Stevie Wonder as Needs More Reps does, you're even less likely to end up in one. TOC is probably one the best courses in the world to be one of the worst drivers.

Saw an interesting article lately too that compared the average drives of the longest players of the last 20 years, interestingly not a fag paper between them. So all this talk of changing the ball, should have been happening back then too.

Remember the regulations on COR of clubs changed a few years ago, so 10-15 years ago the players were getting a lot more assistance from their driver.

Point taken that TOC has big wide double fairways etc. But still, there are bunkers all over the place, if you're spraying it everywhere off the tee you're going to find some sand.

Good point on the COR, but the law that I could find on it has been the same since at least 2001.

NOt really true on TOC, you can miss left all the way out and back because all those holes are coming the other way, you're unlikely to end up in a bunker as those would be in stupid places on those holes if they had bunkers there. For example 2 and 17. 3 and 16, 4 and 15, 5 and 14. Conversely it also works the other way around.
You can hit it left all day long everywhere expect 9 and 10, where the play is always to go down 10. Other than that there's no real reason to go in a bunker.

super_realist wrote:Good point on the COR, but the law that I could find on it has been the same since at least 2001.

NOt really true on TOC, you can miss left all the way out and back because all those holes are coming the other way, you're unlikely to end up in a bunker as those would be in stupid places on those holes if they had bunkers there. For example 2 and 17. 3 and 16, 4 and 15, 5 and 14. Conversely it also works the other way around.
You can hit it left all day long everywhere expect 9 and 10, where the play is always to go down 10. Other than that there's no real reason to go in a bunker.

Fair enough. You know TOC a lot better than me, I've never played it.

Didn't the driver rules change in 2007 or 2008? I used to have a TM R320 driver that would go for miles, I loved it but it became non-conforming.

COR changes came about in two phases due to R&A and USGA taking different approaches. From what I remember the limitation came about in around 2004/2005. The USGA implemented this straightaway for all levels of player; pros, elite amateurs, and everyone else. The R&A agreed with pros and elite amateurs having to adhere to the limit but said everyone else had 3-4 years before having to have a conforming club.

Serious question, can you win multiple US Opens and Masters whilst being incredibly wayward with your driver?

Seve and Phil would seem to have the Masters part covered....

I guess, but Seve probably hit as many stunning drives as wayward ones, in fact a lot more. Same with Phil. Would have see the driving stats for fairways hit for their wins I guess, it's hard to believe they be that far from the top of the list.

Masters is the right Major to miss fairways if you’re just long enough (apart from the Open at TOC, super.)

Diggers wrote:I guess, but Seve probably hit as many stunning drives as wayward ones, in fact a lot more. Same with Phil. Would have see the driving stats for fairways hit for their wins I guess, it's hard to believe they be that far from the top of the list.

I would have thought GIR would be a more pertinent stat Diggers.  You don't win majors by getting up and down for par, but you can miss greens from the middle of the fairway. I remember seeing "Needs More Reps" stats once and if I recall correctly during his purple patch he was down in the lower quarter for driving accuracy, but made up for it by being top quarter for GIR.
I'll give him credit for his ability to get away with shocking driving stats.

To me the question is not can you win Masters and US Open's with bad driving, the answer to that is yes, but how many more you might win if you could drive better, and if Woods had better course management and an actual brain in his head I think he'd have north of 20 majors by now, instead of a knackered back and a ton of tournaments thrown away by bad decisions.

OK, but you can say that for a number of players. Norman, Westwood, Monty, Phil, DJ etc. If they just had course management or a brain they would have had x majors.
Tiger was not perfect either but he was just so much better than the lot.

How many more PGAT events and majors would Tiger had to have won before the Tiger deniers on here admitted he was an all time great player?

In fairness I also think Tiger got a few W's because people around him were intimidated and crumbled.

McLaren wrote:How many more PGAT events and majors would Tiger had to have won before the Tiger deniers on here admitted he was an all time great player?

Up yours!