New Zealand dicipline

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/99278416/all-blacks-see-plenty-of-yellow-and-a-bit-of-red-in-2017

NZ are oficially the most ill diciplined team in world rugby. Despite the denial shown by Steve Hanson whenever questioned on NZs dicipline (most famously after playing Ireland in Dublin where they dodged two red cards through poor refereeing) they are the most carded side in 07 and in general ill diciplined.

Is it time Hanson acknowledged this fact?

I certainly.wouldn't want him if he coached england. Distance play down and skew the stats in public would be orders of the day.

Maybe not in public but they surely need to do something. Their dicipline is dire. It cost them the lions tour as predicted.

It's about the loss.in experience for me. They have lost so many huge players recently, missing the best player in the world.for me in retallick lost their captain. There are times you need to risk a yellow.they aren't quite on the correct balance at the moment but they'll get there as this group of players grow together. Yes they'll be mentioning it in private.

Merge threads? (Or ignore if there's not much topic interest)

https://www.606v2.com/t66839-argentina-new-zealand-and-australia-most-carded-teams-in-2017

Sorry must have missed it.

Gwlad, next thing you will be trying to tell us that Andy Haden's a cheat....

aucklandlaurie wrote:Gwlad, next thing you will be trying to tell us that Andy Haden's a cheat....

Haden's premeditated dive was the result of a team conspiracy to cheat

NZ are cheats, thats a fact. Point is you lot don't even understand it. Like Haden said, do anything to win the game, including cheat.

NZ discipline hasn't been the best this Autumn but so what? They're getting pinged, all sides go through phases. Are they inherently worse than any other nation.......no.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:NZ discipline hasn't been the best this Autumn but so what? They're getting pinged, all sides go through phases. Are they inherently worse than any other nation.......no.

They are calculated cheats though Pooly, been doing it for years, its in their psyche...anything to win

Gwlad wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:NZ discipline hasn't been the best this Autumn but so what? They're getting pinged, all sides go through phases. Are they inherently worse than any other nation.......no.

They are calculated cheats though Pooly, been doing it for years, its in their psyche...anything to win

 You say it in a way that suggest that you are a tad jealous that Wales aren't as proficient at cheating as the ABs.

Think of it though, an entire nation built on a sport that is built on a complete lack of integrity. New Zealand.

Gwlad wrote:Think of it though, an entire nation built on a sport that is built on a complete lack of integrity. New Zealand.

 As a Welshman does it explain how Wales have managed to lose every game for the last seventy years?

No because wales have cheated too.

They couldn't have done a very good job of it.

Part of it may be down to other teams putting more pressure on them then they're used to. And as mentioned a lack of experience

I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

The NH referees are a bunch of sooks.

On a team or specific player warning they tend to tidy their act as per the warning for scrums at the weekend.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

 Bit tough blaming the referee for Scotland's loss.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

 Bit tough blaming the referee for Scotland's loss.

It's a bad trait, certainly. Then again, there are some supporters who'll even look to blame a referee when their team draws.

Or bang on about a ref missing a forward pass ten years ago

Rugby Fan wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

 Bit tough blaming the referee for Scotland's loss.

It's a bad trait, certainly. Then again, there are some supporters who'll even look to blame a referee when their team draws.

 Who did that?

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Or bang on about a ref missing a forward pass ten years ago

 Who did that?

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Or bang on about a ref missing a forward pass ten years ago

 Who did that?

Try the whole of NZ...after 2007 there were questions asked in Parliament ffs, up here we thought NZ might invade but then you probably don't have an army lol. You could give the sheep guns though.

Gwlad wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Or bang on about a ref missing a forward pass ten years ago

 Who did that?

Try the whole of NZ...after 2007 there were questions asked in Parliament ffs, up here we thought NZ might invade but then you probably don't have an army lol. You could give the sheep guns though.

 Would the whole of New Zealand include me? At no stage have I ever criticised wayne Barnes for missing the forward pass in the ABs v France game in 2007.

 I will admit to being ignorant about lots of Welsh things, but I didnt even know Wales had an Army.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Or bang on about a ref missing a forward pass ten years ago

 Who did that?

Try the whole of NZ...after 2007 there were questions asked in Parliament ffs, up here we thought NZ might invade but then you probably don't have an army lol. You could give the sheep guns though.

 Would the whole of New Zealand include me? At no stage have I ever criticised wayne Barnes for missing the forward pass in the ABs v France game in 2007.

 I will admit to being ignorant about lots of Welsh things, but I didnt even know Wales had an Army.

Just like their rugby team, they are reliant on England

For all NZ have received most cards, it hasn't cost them many results - 2nd Lions test because of a moment of stupidity by SBW rather than more widespread ill discipline in that game.

I suspect the ABs probably do try to be 'cute' a bit more than some other teams - e.g. Read against Scotland was definitely taking a chance that worked out that day but on others could have seen him penalised and carded.

I'd be interested to know how much possession NZ have had in games in the last couple of years - cards tend more often to be given to defending teams, partly because it is the tackler who is more likely to commit an act of foul play (high tackle / 'tip' tackle) or to be penalised for e.g. slowing the ball down in a potential scoring position. RuggerRadge makes a good point that the All Blacks defensive ethos seems to be they'll accept the penalties as long as it stops their opponents crossing the line

aucklandlaurie wrote:I will admit to being ignorant about lots of Welsh things, but I didnt even know Wales had an Army.

Very sensitive, and emotional topic, right now, Laurie

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/goat-led-out-welsh-rugby-13683189

The goat that led out the Welsh rugby team has died (and even the Queen has been informed)

The regimental mascot of 3rd Battalion The Royal Welsh - who was well-known for appearing at Welsh rugby internationals - has died. Lance Corporal Shenkin III - regimental mascot of 3rd Battalion The Royal Welsh - died on Tuesday aged seven and a half years old. Shenkin was well known for appearing at Welsh rugby internationals, where he would lead out the Wales team with handler Goat Major Sergeant Mark Jackson.

I feel sorry for the goat, poor thing gets dragged off to Millenium stadium all the time and has to watch Wales go through another one of their defeats to the All blacks (and other teams).

Mccaw gets dragged to the ms?

No. McCaw died in wales and they told the queen...

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

 Bit tough blaming the referee for Scotland's loss.

I didn't blame anyone for anything. Scotland's lack of accuracy cost us the game. The referee made some mistakes but he didn't cause Scotland the game. Get that chip off your shoulder Laurie.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

 Bit tough blaming the referee for Scotland's loss.

I didn't blame anyone for anything. Scotland's lack of accuracy cost us the game. The referee made some mistakes but he didn't cause Scotland the game. Get that chip off your shoulder Laurie.

 Appears to me that you are the one holding the grudge. Im fine.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

 Bit tough blaming the referee for Scotland's loss.

I didn't blame anyone for anything. Scotland's lack of accuracy cost us the game. The referee made some mistakes but he didn't cause Scotland the game. Get that chip off your shoulder Laurie.

 Appears to me that you are the one holding the grudge. Im fine.

its in their blood, if they lose a game it must be ref's fault QED they think if anyone else loses they MUST blame ref

NZ team is built on cheating and they even expect to cheat the ref

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

 Bit tough blaming the referee for Scotland's loss.

I didn't blame anyone for anything. Scotland's lack of accuracy cost us the game. The referee made some mistakes but he didn't cause Scotland the game. Get that chip off your shoulder Laurie.

 Appears to me that you are the one holding the grudge. Im fine.

No grudge at all. The best team won. The team that was more accurate and clinical. However, please read what I said, instead of putting words in my mouth. This is a forum, where everyone's opinions matter. You should read what people say instead of reading what people say and then ignoring what they say and making me out to be a whinge moaning about a ref for our loss.

Even when Craig "the walloper" Joubert made a hash of our RWC quarter final I said we made too many mistakes to hold Joubert responsible for our loss.

Clearly you have an opinion of NH fans blaming the Ref. I'm not one of them so please don't tar me with the same brush.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

 Bit tough blaming the referee for Scotland's loss.

I didn't blame anyone for anything. Scotland's lack of accuracy cost us the game. The referee made some mistakes but he didn't cause Scotland the game. Get that chip off your shoulder Laurie.

 Appears to me that you are the one holding the grudge. Im fine.

No grudge at all. The best team won. The team that was more accurate and clinical. However, please read what I said, instead of putting words in my mouth. This is a forum, where everyone's opinions matter. You should read what people say instead of reading what people say and then ignoring what they say and making me out to be a whinge moaning about a ref for our loss.

Even when Craig "the walloper" Joubert made a hash of our RWC quarter final I said we made too many mistakes to hold Joubert responsible for our loss.

Clearly you have an opinion of NH fans blaming the Ref. I'm not one of them so please don't tar me with the same brush.

 All is good RuggerR, Plus you should (and I have no reason to think that you arent) be massively proud of the advancements your National team over  the last couple of years.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

 Bit tough blaming the referee for Scotland's loss.

I didn't blame anyone for anything. Scotland's lack of accuracy cost us the game. The referee made some mistakes but he didn't cause Scotland the game. Get that chip off your shoulder Laurie.

 Appears to me that you are the one holding the grudge. Im fine.

No grudge at all. The best team won. The team that was more accurate and clinical. However, please read what I said, instead of putting words in my mouth. This is a forum, where everyone's opinions matter. You should read what people say instead of reading what people say and then ignoring what they say and making me out to be a whinge moaning about a ref for our loss.

Even when Craig "the walloper" Joubert made a hash of our RWC quarter final I said we made too many mistakes to hold Joubert responsible for our loss.

Clearly you have an opinion of NH fans blaming the Ref. I'm not one of them so please don't tar me with the same brush.

 All is good RuggerR, Plus you should (and I have no reason to think that you arent) be massively proud of the advancements your National team over  the last couple of years.

It's exciting times. A little more accuracy here and there and establishing a strong defencive system and we'll be ready to challenge for The RWC, we are mid cycle with the spine of the team established, and some time to improve our weaker areas I fancy us to do well this year in the 6N and push on again next year.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

 Bit tough blaming the referee for Scotland's loss.

I didn't blame anyone for anything. Scotland's lack of accuracy cost us the game. The referee made some mistakes but he didn't cause Scotland the game. Get that chip off your shoulder Laurie.

 Appears to me that you are the one holding the grudge. Im fine.

No grudge at all. The best team won. The team that was more accurate and clinical. However, please read what I said, instead of putting words in my mouth. This is a forum, where everyone's opinions matter. You should read what people say instead of reading what people say and then ignoring what they say and making me out to be a whinge moaning about a ref for our loss.

Even when Craig "the walloper" Joubert made a hash of our RWC quarter final I said we made too many mistakes to hold Joubert responsible for our loss.

Clearly you have an opinion of NH fans blaming the Ref. I'm not one of them so please don't tar me with the same brush.

 All is good RuggerR, Plus you should (and I have no reason to think that you arent) be massively proud of the advancements your National team over  the last couple of years.

It's exciting times. A little more accuracy here and there and establishing a strong defencive system and we'll be ready to challenge for The RWC, we are mid cycle with the spine of the team established, and some time to improve our weaker areas I fancy us to do well this year in the 6N and push on again next year.

 Now I'm going off my memory here, but if recall correctly, in the 2011 World Cup Scotland scored the lowest number of tries. The way this team is now creating those opportunities from which tries occur, makes Scotland a team for everyone to be very wary or you will come second at the 80 minute mark.

 As a neutral this years 6N is going to be compulsive viewing.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

 Bit tough blaming the referee for Scotland's loss.

I didn't blame anyone for anything. Scotland's lack of accuracy cost us the game. The referee made some mistakes but he didn't cause Scotland the game. Get that chip off your shoulder Laurie.

 Appears to me that you are the one holding the grudge. Im fine.

No grudge at all. The best team won. The team that was more accurate and clinical. However, please read what I said, instead of putting words in my mouth. This is a forum, where everyone's opinions matter. You should read what people say instead of reading what people say and then ignoring what they say and making me out to be a whinge moaning about a ref for our loss.

Even when Craig "the walloper" Joubert made a hash of our RWC quarter final I said we made too many mistakes to hold Joubert responsible for our loss.

Clearly you have an opinion of NH fans blaming the Ref. I'm not one of them so please don't tar me with the same brush.

 All is good RuggerR, Plus you should (and I have no reason to think that you arent) be massively proud of the advancements your National team over  the last couple of years.

It's exciting times. A little more accuracy here and there and establishing a strong defencive system and we'll be ready to challenge for The RWC, we are mid cycle with the spine of the team established, and some time to improve our weaker areas I fancy us to do well this year in the 6N and push on again next year.

 Now I'm going off my memory here, but if recall correctly, in the 2011 World Cup Scotland scored the lowest number of tries. The way this team is now creating those opportunities from which tries occur, makes Scotland a team for everyone to be very wary or you will come second at the 80 minute mark.

 As a neutral this years 6N is going to be compulsive viewing.

It will be a cracker, getting back to the topic at hand though Laurie. Do you think NZ have a discipline problem?

Even by their pundits own admissions they sail quite close to the wind. Do you think that they'll reign in some of their bending of the rules a bit?

I actually have a huge amount of respect for how NZ defend. It's ballsy as hell but their disciplinary record shows its not without risk.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

 Bit tough blaming the referee for Scotland's loss.

I didn't blame anyone for anything. Scotland's lack of accuracy cost us the game. The referee made some mistakes but he didn't cause Scotland the game. Get that chip off your shoulder Laurie.

 Appears to me that you are the one holding the grudge. Im fine.

No grudge at all. The best team won. The team that was more accurate and clinical. However, please read what I said, instead of putting words in my mouth. This is a forum, where everyone's opinions matter. You should read what people say instead of reading what people say and then ignoring what they say and making me out to be a whinge moaning about a ref for our loss.

Even when Craig "the walloper" Joubert made a hash of our RWC quarter final I said we made too many mistakes to hold Joubert responsible for our loss.

Clearly you have an opinion of NH fans blaming the Ref. I'm not one of them so please don't tar me with the same brush.

 All is good RuggerR, Plus you should (and I have no reason to think that you arent) be massively proud of the advancements your National team over  the last couple of years.

It's exciting times. A little more accuracy here and there and establishing a strong defencive system and we'll be ready to challenge for The RWC, we are mid cycle with the spine of the team established, and some time to improve our weaker areas I fancy us to do well this year in the 6N and push on again next year.

 Now I'm going off my memory here, but if recall correctly, in the 2011 World Cup Scotland scored the lowest number of tries. The way this team is now creating those opportunities from which tries occur, makes Scotland a team for everyone to be very wary or you will come second at the 80 minute mark.

 As a neutral this years 6N is going to be compulsive viewing.

It will be a cracker, getting back to the topic at hand though Laurie. Do you think NZ have a discipline problem?

Even by their pundits own admissions they sail quite close to the wind. Do you think that they'll reign in some of their bending of the rules a bit?

I actually have a huge amount of respect for how NZ defend. It's ballsy as hell but their disciplinary record shows its not without risk.

 Nah, I dont think there is a discipline problem, sure things could be more comfortable if we were penalized less, I am comfortable with the way both Australia and New Zealand play the game to the edge and take that hesitation out their commitment. The game is constantly changing and many things that we used to get away with ten or fifteen years ago are now outlawed, ultimately it is foreseeable that as the pressure goes on World Rugby that tackling will be disallowed.

 I see a gap difference between "bending the rules" and playing to the edge of the law, rather than playing the game to the lawbook we should have a lawbook that compliments the game. New Zealanders (and Aussies)  will always stand up for the game and not some of the autocratic rules and laws that have recently come out of World Rugby. A recent example is our Womans (The Black Ferns) 7s team has just told World rugby that they can go F%$ck them selves with that stupid ruling that players are no longer permitted when playing in an International fixtures to write on their strapping. and guess what? we now see World Rugby start to back off well at least for this week.


 Have a read:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11950115

aucklandlaurie wrote: I see a gap difference between "bending the rules" and playing to the edge of the law, rather than playing the game to the lawbook we should have a lawbook that compliments the game. New Zealanders (and Aussies)  will always stand up for the game and not some of the autocratic rules and laws that have recently come out of World Rugby.

Good God! Now that really is rich.

Over the years we have had rule change after rule change (remember the ELVs) most of them at the behest of the SH particularly Australia. Most were not designed to "compliment the game" but to try (unsuccessfully) to keep the game popular in Australia by:
a) trying to turn it into Rugby League which for some unfathomable reasons many Aussies like
b) trying to eliminate aspects of the game at which the Aussies have struggled - hence efforts a few years ago to depower the scrum.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Or bang on about a ref missing a forward pass ten years ago

 Who did that?

Try the whole of NZ...after 2007 there were questions asked in Parliament ffs, up here we thought NZ might invade but then you probably don't have an army lol. You could give the sheep guns though.

 Would the whole of New Zealand include me? At no stage have I ever criticised wayne Barnes for missing the forward pass in the ABs v France game in 2007.

 I will admit to being ignorant about lots of Welsh things, but I didnt even know Wales had an Army.

We don't. It's the British army. If our lads are still out there dying then maybe you should brush up on your knowledge so you don't have to display this ignorance... Hmm, ignorance from a kiwi, pretty much the standard for 90% of AB fans.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

NZ and Aus do it quite often, however each have the ability to score a lot of tries so yeah you're right. I agree that players should continue to be sent off although I can't see many SH ref's enforcing it. Glen Jackson aside the SH refs are really poor.

mikey_dragon wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Or bang on about a ref missing a forward pass ten years ago

 Who did that?

Try the whole of NZ...after 2007 there were questions asked in Parliament ffs, up here we thought NZ might invade but then you probably don't have an army lol. You could give the sheep guns though.

 Would the whole of New Zealand include me? At no stage have I ever criticised wayne Barnes for missing the forward pass in the ABs v France game in 2007.

 I will admit to being ignorant about lots of Welsh things, but I didnt even know Wales had an Army.

We don't. It's the British army. If our lads are still out there dying then maybe you should brush up on your knowledge so you don't have to display this ignorance... Hmm, ignorance from a kiwi, pretty much the standard for 90% of AB fans.

oh puleeease.

At least we don't have...Gwlad!. Enough ignorance to go around for all Welsh fans, not just 90%

Taylorman wrote:oh puleeease.

At least we don't have...Gwlad!. Enough ignorance to go around for all Welsh fans, not just 90%

Well that's just one fan opposed to a few million kiwi's. No idea how fans of a team that wins the most is so one-eyed.

mikey_dragon wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I want the refs to keep sending players to the bin when the All Blacks are defending. Their defensive mentality appears to be "we'll take penalties, but we don't care, we're defending this line".

When playing Scotland when we were hammering away at the line there was grounds to send 5 guys to the bin. Unless refs start doing it they'll keep infringing.

Having one guy in the bin should not change the referees mind when looking at repeated cynical offenses. Keep sending them off until they drop the cynical play.

NZ and Aus do it quite often, however each have the ability to score a lot of tries so yeah you're right. I agree that players should continue to be sent off although I can't see many SH ref's enforcing it. Glen Jackson aside the SH refs are really poor.

Rugby's laws are more open to interpretation than any other sport and it is the duty of a side to test that interpretation in every possible respect. It's no coincidence that the side most penalised is also the number one side.

In fact I'd be concerned if my side were not near the top of the penalty count because it would mean they are not pushing the boundaries enough.

Nice guys don't win rugby tournaments, smart rugby teams do, in terms of the laws of the game.

However, if is team is getting penalised high AND mostly losing, then they're getting it wrong, and need to address the impact penalties are having on their performance.

But mostly winning with the highest penalty count? Why change a winning formula. Complain about the rules, not the team thats playing them best.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Taylorman wrote:oh puleeease.

At least we don't have...Gwlad!. Enough ignorance to go around for all Welsh fans, not just 90%

Well that's just one fan opposed to a few million kiwi's. No idea how fans of a team that wins the most is so one-eyed.

Good point, I can understand how you'd have no idea in that respect.

Taylorman wrote:...It's no coincidence that the side most penalised is also the number one side...

How on earth do you figure that, Taylorman? I'd actually be quite surprised if World Cup-winning sides were also the most penalized. England certainly weren't. By World Rugby rankings, New Zealand have been top for a long time now but I can't recall anyone suggesting they were the most penalized before.

The statement also seems very much at odds with your previous contention that the All Blacks are taught "to take the referee out of the game". Getting penalized more than other teams doesn't seem like an effective way of doing it.

Good sides test the limits of a referee but, having found them, stay on the right side of whatever line he draws on the day. Sometimes, it's a free-for-all which bears little relation to written laws. If you play like that, as Richie McCaw's New Zealand certainly did, with him leading by example, then you won't top the penalty count.

Rugby Fan wrote:

Taylorman wrote:...It's no coincidence that the side most penalised is also the number one side...

How on earth do you figure that, Taylorman? I'd actually be quite surprised if World Cup-winning sides were also the most penalized. England certainly weren't. By World Rugby rankings, New Zealand have been top for a long time now but I can't recall anyone suggesting they were the most penalized before.

The statement also seems very much at odds with your previous contention that the All Blacks are taught "to take the referee out of the game". Getting penalized more than other teams doesn't seem like an effective way of doing it.

Good sides test the limits of a referee but, having found them, stay on the right side of whatever line he draws on the day. Sometimes, it's a free-for-all which bears little relation to written laws. If you play like that, as Richie McCaw's New Zealand certainly did, with him leading by example, then you won't top the penalty count.

My point is if theyre the most penalised side, yet they keep winning, it must be working more for them than against, because there will be that many more situations where theyve pushed the envelope and not got caught, so it pays off. Not saying it suits all sides though.

Its a bit like the Territory and possession myth. Wales had sonething like 63 and 67% of both, and in a test match thats a stat that you expect to win with. But no, its about quality use of the possession and territory. Wales were obviously very poor at utilising both comparatively, though I did think the Scott Williams try was one of, if not the best test try this year. Set play perfection.