European Cup Round 3 & 4 - Pool 3: Exeter v Leinster 10 & 16 Dec 2017

First topic message reminder :

Donnacha O’Callaghan says his Worcester team mates regard the PRO14 as a joke shop.   Despite what he and Ben Te’o try to tell them.  No international players and no relegation.   It’s a joke.  The European Cup on the other hand is the real deal when it comes to assessing the teams, they believe.  Exeter are everybody’s favorite second team in the Premiership, says O’Callaghan.  Over the two weekends, it’s Premiership vs PRO14 with Ulster, Leinster and Munster all involved in hiberno-anglo dust-ups and Saints v Ospreys.   Munster v Leicester has some appeal but the match that players not involved are really looking forward to is the showdown between the English table toppers and the Irish Conference B second placers.  

At first glance, it hardly looks fair.  One club dripping with money from swashbuckling TV deals, and further riches from its highly profitable union, and nearly 20 players drawn from NZ, Australia, SA, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Italy, Germany, and Tonga. The other largely surviving on homegrown talent and a couple of uncapped foreign imports.  One still whooping it up as a current league champion, the other hasn’t seen decent silverware since God was a boy or five years anyway.  

Still the Leinster players tried their best last weekend and scored a couple of tries on the barren turf of Sandy Park - for opposition teams that is - Exeter have the second meanest defence in the league with just 22 tries conceded and the most tries scored with 36 after 10 matches.   They’ve lost just 2 league games this season.  And they’re now 2 from 3 in Europe.   Leinster have 8 wins in the PRO14 Championship with 41 tries under their belt. They’re 3 from 3 in the Cup.  

Leinster are probably the best placed with bookies of the joke shop teams.   They’ll need to be at their very best over the two weekends if those odds are to be kept or reduced.

Leinster won the first away leg 18-8 and are now back at their large alternative home in Lansdowne Road for the return leg.  Exeter will be smarting and looking to show they have more than pick and go in their arsenal to grind down opposition teams.   Leinster won’t be lulled into a false sense of security a la their return Northampton game a few years ago.    Weather forecast is showing possibility of rain in Dublin, or it could hold off to just be a very cold windless Saturday afternoon.  There’ll appear to be a bit more width on the pitch for both teams to play to their fullest extent.   If it stays dry the try count should be higher than last week - but it’s still to tough to call who the winner will be.  


Possible Teams:

Leinster Rugby confirmed

15. Rob Kearney; 14. Fergus McFadden, 13. Garry Ringrose, 12. Robbie Henshaw, 11. Isa Nacewa; 10. Johnny Sexton, 9. Luke McGrath; 1. Cian Healy, 2. Sean Cronin, 3. Tadhg Furlong, 4. Devin Toner, 5. Scott Fardy, 6. Sean O’Brien, 7 Josh van der Flier, 8. Jack Conan

16. James Tracy, 17. Jack McGrath, 18. Andrew Porter, 19. James Ryan, 20. Dan Leavy, 21. Jamison Gibson-Park, 22. Ross Byrne, 23. Jordan Larmour

Exeter Chiefs Possible

15 ???? 14 James Short 13 Henry Slade12 Ian Whitten 11 Olly Woodburn 10 Gareth Steenson (capt)
9 Nic White 1 Alec Hepburn 2 Luke Cowan-Dickie 3 Harry Williams 4 Mitch Lees 5 Jonny Hill 6 Don Armand
7 Matt Kvesic 8 Thomas Waldrom

16 Jack Yeandle 17 Ben Moon 18 Tomas Francis 19 Sam Skinner20 Sam Simmonds 21 Will Chudley 22 Sam Hill 23 Jack Nowell

eirebilly wrote:Vardy now with a YC as Exeter score a try. Not often we see that, looks like the ref may be trying to make up for his earlier poor call for the Healy card...

So all he needs to do now is give them a yellow every 10 mins

eirebilly wrote:Leinster really getting some rub of the green here with the ref. Should have been a penalty for Exeter there as Kearney did not release... Even BOD thinks so

Maybe he's letting the home crowd get to him ...

Heaf wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Vardy now with a YC as Exeter score a try. Not often we see that, looks like the ref may be trying to make up for his earlier poor call for the Healy card...

So all he needs to do now is give them a yellow every 10 mins

He has to start somewhere

The home crowd are thinking they're getting the rawdeal from those boos!

Could have been a 10 point turnaround as Woodburn looked like he was off under the posts there too ...

Really not sure why the Leinster crowd are booing here. Leinster have been very fortunate with some very important (potential game changing) calls here today. Very poor from them.

Yep should have been down to 14 men for 50 mins plus got 3 points when potentially should have been 7 to Exeter - very lucky so far

Heaf wrote:Yep should have been down to 14 men for 50 mins plus got 3 points when potentially should have been 7 to Exeter - very lucky so far

Not sure you can say anything about potentially 7 points as had the correct call been given, Exeter would have kicked for touch so the following play would never have happened. It was certainly 3 points that Leinster should not have gotten.

Good point ... would have only worked out that way if there was no pen either way ...

Think the non-red is a sure game changer though - playing Exeter with 14 men for 50 mins (ignoring the 2nd YC) would be unlikely to end well ...

Horrible booing from the Leinster crowd...

Another extremely favourable call for Leinster with Exeter on attack...

It's made worse by the fact that they've been massive beneficiaries of some very poor calls so they should be thinking themselves lucky

The other calls are either or in fairness. Not horrible decisions.

No 7&1/2 wrote:The other calls are either or in fairness. Not horrible decisions.

When even BOD complains about the calls Leinster are getting then they are pretty obvious and incorrect.

On replays maybe but nothing massively wrong bar the red yellow decision.

Lots of questionable calls one after the other though all costing Exeter in points or field position ...

Incorrect calls are incorrect calls. Exeter were on the attack near the line and get incorrectly penalised allowing Leinster to clear their lines. That is an important call as far as I am concerned, marginal or not, it was incorrect and stopped a potential try scoring opportunity for Exeter.

Meh. I'm sure I'd be making decisions differently to him so would you. He's being consistent though. Not having a bad game.

Well it was coming, good try from Leinster or is it a forward pass? Ref having a look.

That is the nail in the coffin for Exeter I feel.

Not yet.

Looked forwards but can'e be sure - needed a review but of course the TMO stays quiet

definately forward.

Just started watching the game, ref is definitely a homer from the little I have seen, Exeter not getting anything despite clear infringements.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:definately forward.

Just started watching the game, ref is definitely a homer from the little I have seen, Exeter not getting anything despite clear infringements.

Leinster are certainly enjoying home advantage. The number of Leinster players I've seen go off their feet over the breakdown and not get pinged then Chiefs do it once and get pinged.

Well it may not be fashionable to criticise the officials but it's looking like they have cost the Chiefs this game with several poor calls ...

I thought going over the top of the ball and sealing it off to all it to be worked back was illegal, dif laws in Ireland?

I'd say Exeter lineout has gone pretty far to doing that as well.yes the red that should have been issued would probably have won it for them but these things happen and overall Leinster edged it

Heaf wrote:Well it may not be fashionable to criticise the officials but it's looking like they have cost the Chiefs this game with several poor calls ...

You can't make a mess of that many key lineouts and blame the ref. Leinster should be feeling very lucky though.

Exeter were brilliant fair play. We were very lucky there to say the least.

.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Heaf wrote:Well it may not be fashionable to criticise the officials but it's looking like they have cost the Chiefs this game with several poor calls ...

You can't make a mess of that many key lineouts and blame the ref. Leinster should be feeling very lucky though.

Missed red, clear pen the wrong way for 3 points, missed forward pass for a try - all enough to change the game. Chiefs messing up some line-outs (so did Leinster btw) is no excuse for officiating that changes results ...

Refs make mistakes. Why only count up theirs and not players and coaches? He made fewer than Exeter.

Heaf wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Heaf wrote:Well it may not be fashionable to criticise the officials but it's looking like they have cost the Chiefs this game with several poor calls ...

You can't make a mess of that many key lineouts and blame the ref. Leinster should be feeling very lucky though.

Missed red, clear pen the wrong way for 3 points, missed forward pass for a try - all enough to change the game.  Chiefs messing up some line-outs (so did Leinster btw) is no excuse for officiating that changes results ...

That "forward pass" was marginal. I hate seeing great tries being denied by TMOs having to look at a pass 100 times at different angles.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Refs make mistakes. Why only count up theirs and not players and coaches?  He made fewer than Exeter.

But that makes no sense to me - both teams made mistakes but why should they have to be good enough to beat the other team and make up for the officials' poor performance too?

Anyway it is what it is and nothing will change it now so good luck to Leinster in the rest of the tournament as they are my favourite non-English team

Because you can't expect a human to have a perfect game. Yes the red card should have been dealt with differently but there ll be people who agree with him. It brings to mind Laurie the nz fans point of taking the ref out of the equation. If exeter had nailed those lineouts I doubt it would have mattered.

Sure but I don't subscribe to that taking the ref out of the equation nonsense ... The red was clear and obvious, I've no idea how it wasn't ... and the pass for the try should have at least been reviewed - I'm not expecting perfection but basic competence was missing for those calls.

Congrats to Leinster - deserved victory over a very committed English Premiership team.

Montpellier are going to give them both a very tough game. This pool ain’t done yet.

I agree on the red. I think there's a case for the tmo to be stronger and offer an opinion there. The rest well...There's plenty I disagree with but I feel the same watching any game of rugby. Bath game on now I'll be saying that they've gone straight off their feet all game...but it'll be consistent and many say it's the best ref in the game.

eirebilly wrote:Really not sure why the Leinster crowd are booing here. Leinster have been very fortunate with some very important (potential game changing) calls here today. Very poor from them.

All the Irish crowds do that at every game though.

mikey_dragon wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Really not sure why the Leinster crowd are booing here. Leinster have been very fortunate with some very important (potential game changing) calls here today. Very poor from them.

All the Irish crowds do that at every game though.

At least there is a crowd there

mikey_dragon wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Really not sure why the Leinster crowd are booing here. Leinster have been very fortunate with some very important (potential game changing) calls here today. Very poor from them.

All the Irish crowds do that at every game though.

Oh no they don’t.

It is panto season after all......

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Really not sure why the Leinster crowd are booing here. Leinster have been very fortunate with some very important (potential game changing) calls here today. Very poor from them.

All the Irish crowds do that at every game though.

At least there is a crowd there

You don’t get points for crowd figures though. The one-eyed crowd sure as hell didn’t help when Scarlets wiped the floor with Leinster then Munster. Why do you guys boo a lot and then moan at the Welsh for booing? Every time I bring it up I can’t get a straight answer, I just get Irish throwing their toys.

Mikey, first you have to tell us why you guys boo a lot and then moan at the Irish for booing? Every time I bring it up I can't get a straight answer, I just get Welsh throwing their toys.

Anyway, enough of the whimpering Welsh fans. That was a stonking good comeback from Leinster with McGrath, Fardy and vdF playing brilliantly in leading the way in the second half.

It’s great to see Luke McGrath and John Cooney coming through as alternative 9s for Schmidt to consider. The more I see them play and develop, the less the worry about a possible Murray-injury affecting the test team. Ross Byrne also stepped up again and gets more comfortable with each game under his belt.

Kudos to Jack Carty at Connacht who notched a try, 7 conversions and 2 penalties in their 55-10 hammering of Brive at the Sportsground. Matt Healy has got his wheels back with 4 tries to his name. Keane now needs to harness that form to get them firing again in the Championship.

Heaf wrote:Sure but I don't subscribe to that taking the ref out of the equation nonsense ... The red was clear and obvious, I've no idea how it wasn't ... and the pass for the try should have at least been reviewed - I'm not expecting perfection but basic competence was missing for those calls.

I thought forward initially but each replay made it look more like a try. Garces delayed the kick the TMO flagged nothing so I have no problem with that.

Chiefs don't mess up those lineouts then I'd have bet one would have resulted in another rolling maul try. They also apply more pressure and Leinster were living on the edge and conceded two yellow cards, more pressure in the 22 could have been another. They have Leinster let off after let off and the Leinster bench produced Leevy who was exceptional and really added the dyancism Leinster needed to find some holes in the tiring Exeter defence.

What is very concerning for Leinster and Ireland is Sexton failing the HIA. How many has he had in the last couple of years?

Too many. But it's his driven personality and bravery (foolhardiness?) that...well, it can't be toned down or he isn't the player he is.

eirebilly wrote:What is very concerning for Leinster and Ireland is Sexton failing the HIA. How many has he had in the last couple of years?

I suspect he'll now sit down for the mandatory rest protocol or maybe not as he'll then miss the start of the six nations. Perhaps a few weeks rest instead.

As an outsider I was surprised to see Byrne come on and not young Carberry who has looked electric when I've seen him previously. Is he injured?

He's injured.... All our blasted best players keep getting injured!! It's a bloody Mafia fix!