Sarries v Clermont Auvergne 11/12/17

Lol..........

Where has Saries large fan base gone?

Not very rugby like kicking a man when he's down............

It's Sarries, normal rules don't apply.

46-14 wow, just wow.

That's a right dickin' at this level, especially for Sarries who I thought were invincible! I guess Clermont were really upset about the postponement.

But the bigger question is does this result now conclusively prove Jamie George shouldn't start big games?

didnt know a Saracens team could be dominated in all facets of the game like today. Don’t get me wrong it was Clermont best game of the season despite having no real fly half on the pitch but wow I couldn’t recognise that Saracens team at all...

All English sides lost this weekend. Lol.

How are French clubs so good and their international team so bad right now?

Wow that's a real drubbing for Sarries. Embarrassing.

mikey_dragon wrote:How are French clubs so good and their international team so bad right now?

French fans, players, coaches and tea ladies prefer Top14?

BTW.  I wouldn't be writing off English teams just yet.  It must be that they don't like cold, muck and slush anymore.  They're warm and dry weather teams now.  Plus, the English players will make schyt of most of us come the 6N.

mikey_dragon wrote:How are French clubs so good and their international team so bad right now?

I don’t even agree that French clubs are so good really with the exception of La Rochelle who are the refreshing surprise of the last 2 years. Clermont is performing at their potential while the others are frankly average. Toulon are gash but for some reason as still winning games. English teams (Saracens and wasps) are the ones letting the competition down. Exeter was always going great to find their own limits at this level while bath and quins never really performed. Elsewhere Leinster are on the up, Glasgow still flatters to deceive while it would be nice to see Scarlets go through.

All English sides lost this weekend. Lol.

Point of order -

Falcons 54 Bordeaux 24
Sale 24 Cardiff 0
Gloucester 33 Zebre 26
Worcester 35 Oyonnax 14


just saying....

whocares wrote:didnt know a Saracens team could be dominated in all facets of the game like today. Don’t get me wrong it was Clermont best game of the season despite having no real fly half on the pitch but wow I couldn’t recognise that Saracens team at all...

6 defeats in a row in all competitions. Saracens are struggling at the moment.

Worst weekend ever in the Champions Cup for English sides, will be interesting to see how the second half of the pool stage pans out.

LondonTiger wrote:

whocares wrote:didnt know a Saracens team could be dominated in all facets of the game like today. Don’t get me wrong it was Clermont best game of the season despite having no real fly half on the pitch but wow I couldn’t recognise that Saracens team at all...

6 defeats in a row in all competitions. Saracens are struggling at the moment.

Worst weekend ever in the Champions Cup for English sides, will be interesting to see how the second half of the pool stage pans out.

Are they struggling or is it simply that they've been finally found out, or worked around or negated etc etc? Every successful side (bar New Zealand International! ) kinda has a period when they seem unstoppable because they either have a seamless plan A + plan B that caters for all contingencies and opposition - or they just have a perfect plan A that is impervious to any counterstrike coaching ideas from the opposition sides.
But that kinda deal always has a clock ticking.... and eventually, when you show your best side often enough, the opposition coaches begin to collect enough info to construct the ambush. Has McCall and his plans been made obsolete?

I don't think so. They are missing 3 of their most important forwards (Rhodes, Itoje, Vunipola), and short on confidence. A number of their losses were during the AIs too.

Kind of agree that it's a ticking clock - they play above the sum of their parts - they aren't much better player by player than opponents so susceptible to a loss in confidence etc. But still the best side in Europe, if not this minute.

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

whocares wrote:didnt know a Saracens team could be dominated in all facets of the game like today. Don’t get me wrong it was Clermont best game of the season despite having no real fly half on the pitch but wow I couldn’t recognise that Saracens team at all...

6 defeats in a row in all competitions. Saracens are struggling at the moment.

Worst weekend ever in the Champions Cup for English sides, will be interesting to see how the second half of the pool stage pans out.

Are they struggling or is it simply that they've been finally found out, or worked around or negated etc etc?  Every successful side (bar New Zealand International! ) kinda has a period when they seem unstoppable because they either have a seamless plan A + plan B that caters for all contingencies and opposition - or they just have a perfect plan A that is impervious to any counterstrike coaching ideas from the opposition sides.  
But that kinda deal always has a clock ticking.... and eventually, when you show your best side often enough, the opposition coaches begin to collect enough info to construct the ambush.  Has McCall and his plans been made obsolete?

To me there skills failed them massively. Missed tackles, poor defensive lines, droped balls, bad passes, and the more they tried the worse it got. Clermont played well but sarries gifted them a lot.
But that raka was on fire.

They seem to be in a funk and can't get out of it at the moment

The English sides like to flog their top players (including the Welsh recruits) so they end up injured or out of form post Lions. The sides that contributed the most players to the Lions have the greatest hangover.

Saracens actually eased their players back in well. Itoje s injury was an accident not fatigue.

The Great Aukster wrote:The English sides like to flog their top players (including the Welsh recruits) so they end up injured or out of form post Lions. The sides that contributed the most players to the Lions have the greatest hangover.

But this presumes (as always) that it's not the other sides improving but just the 'main' sides of the era/year/etc that are just knackered and underperforming.  

I don't ever tend to buy that so much.  Sides go up, sides stay up, sides inevitably wilt away again to be preplaced.  Now a number of usual top dogs are constantly in and around the top of the tables of course, but that doesn't mean they are immune from those inevitable ups and downs that force them back amongst a pack of common foes fighting with each other for supremacy for the next era or year.  Some teams just get better than the best.  It's as natural as night following day.
Saracens era over for now? Maybe not. Maybe they'll win the thing again this time round. Anything is possible. But their time will end and not from fatigue or hangovers but simply because another side will notch up their seasonal performances to beat them... even on their best day.

I think that Sarries have gone from unbeatable to whipping boys almost over night suggests its not just other sides have caught up to them.

I tend to buy into the theory that they are suffering from a Lions (and November international) hangover, it seems most if the English teams are struggling a bit for form, as are the Welsh.

Either that or they're just missing Chris Ashton....

Scottrf wrote:I don't think so. They are missing 3 of their most important forwards (Rhodes, Itoje, Vunipola), and short on confidence. A number of their losses were during the AIs too.

Kind of agree that it's a ticking clock - they play above the sum of their parts - they aren't much better player by player than opponents so susceptible to a loss in confidence etc. But still the best side in Europe, if not this minute.

Their forward pack had 7 internationals in it plus Jackson Wray, they are meant to be set up to deal with the lose of players.

They are short of ideas, Farrell looks like a shadow of himself at 10 and there seems to be some of the aggression has gone from their game

rodders wrote:I think that Sarries have gone from unbeatable to whipping boys almost over night suggests its not just other sides have caught up to them.

Oh that was just all the other sides suffering from Lions hangovers, rodders.  If you drink a lot, the hangovers take longer to lift.  Coffee (injected not drank) should now be mandatory for the Saracen boys.

marty2086 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:I don't think so. They are missing 3 of their most important forwards (Rhodes, Itoje, Vunipola), and short on confidence. A number of their losses were during the AIs too.

Kind of agree that it's a ticking clock - they play above the sum of their parts - they aren't much better player by player than opponents so susceptible to a loss in confidence etc. But still the best side in Europe, if not this minute.

Their forward pack had 7 internationals in it plus Jackson Wray, they are meant to be set up to deal with the lose of players.

They are short of ideas, Farrell looks like a shadow of himself at 10 and there seems to be some of the aggression has gone from their game

The problems seem to be mainly in the pack.

I would put this week down as one of those small sample anomalies.

Sarries, Bath, Leicester, Exeter and Wasps are all competing for 2nd spot in their groups (1st in 1 or 2 cases). If the English take 3 or more to the QF's, they are punching above their weight. If they only provide 1 or even none then there will be concern.

Hazel Sapling wrote:I would put this week down as one of those small sample anomalies.

Sarries, Bath, Leicester, Exeter and Wasps are all competing for 2nd spot in their groups (1st in 1 or 2 cases). If the English take 3 or more to the QF's, they are punching above their weight. If they only provide 1 or even none then there will be concern.

There isn't a single English club in 1st or 2nd place at the moment. Is it time for the PRL and BT sports to come together and plan another restructure of the champions cup so that English sides can keep winning?

Except for bath you mean?