The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

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3rd Test Perth, December 14-18, 2017

Australia:
Bancroft, Warner, Khawaja, Smith *, S Marsh, M Marsh, Paine †, Starc, Cummins, Lyon, Hazelwood

England:
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root *, Malan, Bairstow †, Ali, Woakes, Overton, Broad, Anderson

It is no surprise we are where we are with the urn heading back to Australia.

Australia have been better in all departments throughout. Also England have too many batmen out of nick such as Cook and Ali and some quite inexperienced batsmen as well. The bowlers as well have taken too long (mostly) to find the correct lengths to bowl and by the time they have the horse has bolted. Plus in-house scandals haven't helped either.

All going for Australia...great c&b - those either stick or they don't . On Friday Khawaja might have gone for nought in similar (if more difficult) style and we might be looking at a very different game...

Tends to happen once one team gets right on top.

Now : all we need is Root to make 150 and a couple of others eighty or so each

That would do me for Christmas.

Fifty up for England. 52 for 2.

CaledonianCraig wrote:It is no surprise we are where we are with the urn heading back to Australia.

Australia have been better in all departments throughout. Also England have too many batmen out of nick such as Cook and Ali and some quite inexperienced batsmen as well. The bowlers as well have taken too long (mostly) to find the correct lengths to bowl and by the time they have the horse has bolted. Plus in-house scandals haven't helped either.

Yes all true I think. I do feel the "in house scandals " are basically rubbish and largely a function of a British press that actively enjoys undermining its own sportsmen and effectively aids any mischief the Australian media puts up...though Stokes really did drop his mates in it before the tour.

The fact that Cook , Ali - and Root - have so far not played anywhere near their normal standards has been the main problem , I'd say . The newcomers , with all the still existing doubts as to their true class , have done at least as well as hoped ; but the stars haven't come out... And we all knew , or should have , that the key to Tests in Australia is always making big runs.

Note also that Warner hasn't really fired yet for Australia ; but Smith has rather covered for anything lost there in a manner that England have been unable to do. In fact thinking of it neither Khawaja , Handscomb or Bancroft have been exactly prolific : it is only the Marsh boys - neither of whom was in most local fan's teams - who have played major roles in supporting their skipper...and of course the excellent Cummins and Paine in the later order.

It still annoys me that this series appears to be settled in straight sets though : despite the fact that Australia are winning easily here I believe that the gap between the teams is nothing like the 2006/7 series , for example. It may well end up 5-0 again ; but each match so far has seen days in which England have actually been on top and just needed one more good session to take a grip...

But I guess that's it really : in Test Cricket you have to take advantage of any period of supremacy. And this time Australia regularly have ; and England haven't.

Oh deary deary me. Root caught at first slip in first ball from Nathan Lyon. He goes for 14 and England on their knees on 60 for 3 and still trailing by 199.

And Root goes, to Lyons first ball of the day. God we need rain.

This has gone bad very quickly. England are in a real state. Poor shot selection from Root who shouldnt be getting out to Lyon

alfie wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:It is no surprise we are where we are with the urn heading back to Australia.

Australia have been better in all departments throughout. Also England have too many batmen out of nick such as Cook and Ali and some quite inexperienced batsmen as well. The bowlers as well have taken too long (mostly) to find the correct lengths to bowl and by the time they have the horse has bolted. Plus in-house scandals haven't helped either.

Yes all true I think.   I do feel the "in house scandals " are basically rubbish and largely a function of a British press that actively enjoys undermining its own sportsmen and effectively aids any mischief the Australian media puts up...though Stokes really did drop his mates in it before the tour.

The fact that Cook , Ali - and Root - have so far not played anywhere near their normal standards has been the main problem , I'd say . The newcomers , with all the still existing doubts as to their true class , have done at least as well as hoped ; but the stars haven't come out...  And we all knew , or should have , that the key to Tests in Australia is always making big runs.

Note also that Warner hasn't really fired yet for Australia ; but Smith has rather covered for anything lost there in a manner that England have been unable to do.  In fact thinking of it neither Khawaja , Handscomb or Bancroft have been exactly prolific : it is only the Marsh boys - neither of whom was in most local fan's teams - who have played major roles in supporting their skipper...and of course the excellent Cummins and Paine in the later order.

It still annoys me that this series appears to be settled in straight sets though : despite the fact that Australia are winning easily here I believe that the gap between the teams is nothing like the 2006/7 series , for example.  It may well end up 5-0 again ; but each match so far has seen days in which England have actually been on top and just needed one more good session to take a grip...

But I guess that's it really : in Test Cricket you have to take advantage of any period of supremacy. And this time Australia regularly have ; and England haven't.

Yes I agree England have had times when they were on top but unlike Australia they have handed the initiative away too readily whereas Australia have kept their foot on England's throat. Australia have held the trump cards as in the best batsman in the world and in great form, one of the best spinners in the world contributing when the pace attack has needed a rest and pace bowlers to get the full amount out of these pacy wickets.

Vince looks good. But so does Hazelwood. Never had the bowlers to take 20 wickets a game. Which put to much pressure on the batsmen, who just didn't respond.
Difference between the two sides. When England have had good spells, that' all they've been. Where as Australia have been ruthless in there good spells. When we've had bad spells, we'e been horrendous.

Root gone chasing a ball from Lyon

Rebound off the keeper taken at slip...but he really shouldn't have played that . He wouldn't have done so a year ago.

The biggest worry I have for the future is that this tour will destroy Root's captaincy almost before it starts. I was not one who wanted him elevated to the position in the first place as I was unsure he was particularly suited to it and anxious lest it detract from his batting : looking horribly like I was right to be cautious.
And the galling thing is that Cook's stepping down from the pressure of leadership has done nothing for his batting - rather the reverse , in fact.

Whatever happens over the next few weeks I think Bayliss and Farbrace have a lot of work to do to prevent this series from setting England back a long way. Losing in Australia isn't - or shouldn't be - a cause for disgrace. But the media like to make it so and it is vital that the players do not buy that story. They have to resolve to come back - just as Smith and Australia did to come back from 60 all out ...

alfie wrote:Root gone chasing a ball from Lyon

Rebound off the keeper taken at slip...but he really shouldn't have played that . He wouldn't have done so a year ago.

The biggest worry I have for the future is that this tour will destroy Root's captaincy almost before it starts. I was not one who wanted him elevated to the position in the first place as I was unsure he was particularly suited to it and anxious lest it detract from his batting : looking horribly like I was right to be cautious.
And the galling thing is that Cook's stepping down from the pressure of leadership has done nothing for his batting - rather the reverse , in fact.

Whatever happens over the next few weeks I think Bayliss and Farbrace have a lot of work to do to prevent this series from setting England back a long way. Losing in Australia isn't - or shouldn't be - a cause for disgrace.  But the media like to make it so and it is vital that the players do not buy that story. They have to resolve to come back - just as Smith and Australia did to come back from 60 all out ...

This series could end up 5-0 but lets remember so did the last Ashes Tour down under and in the return England won on their home soil. I could quite easily see the same thing happening here. The England players will know they haven't done themselves justice with a lot of their dismissals being needless and too many players out of nick or too inconsistent. Those failings are more temporary rather than a long-term issue in Ashes terms. Again it is also down to England not being comfortable in Australian conditions and not having a quality pace or spin bowler. Those issues (quality pace and spin bowler) have to be addressed.

And alfie's rain dance has worked. Rain stops play with England 71 for 3 and tea will be taken.

The rain stopped seconds after the players left the pitch so no time will be lost. For England to retain even the slightest hope you feel this pair needs to bat through the last session of the day unscathed to get England to around 160 for 3.

Covers off again now.

Well I wasn't doing a rain dance

Unless it goes for twenty four hours it is just delaying the inevitable.

But yes I take your point re conditions and the likelihood that the boot may be on the other foot when the return bout takes place in 2019.

My concern is how management reacts to defeat. In the short term : there will be calls to shred the team and "try out" new players in Melbourne...a rotten idea in my book. Even down 3-0 it is important to strive to win the next match and that means picking the best combination you can (and of course that means taking into account individual confidence or the lack , etc) But not the nonsense of 2014 when Borthwick and Rankin became one test wonders...

And after the tour it is equally important they work at filling the holes in the team rather than trying to rebuild from the ground up. Even this match shows they need Anderson to continue as long as his body allows while they mould an attack around him (and eventually source his replacement) Hopefully Broad (inexplicably off form right now ) can return : whether Woakes , Overton , Wood or whoever (and Stokes ?) are still around next year will be up to their performances .

Surprisingly Moeen finds himself under a lot of pressure for his place very soon after some fine home performances...and despite there being no real alternative presenting

To be honest it is still the batting that bothers me most : they haven't replaced Strauss in five years , Trott in three ...( though I do have hopes Malan can at last cover for Collingwood..) .and I see no one in the class of Bell or Pietersen moving into the middle order yet : when are the next young players coming through ?

Fifty up for Vince. I am awaiting the waft for his demise. Seems inevitable. England 92 for 3 andvstill 167 runs behind.

The 100 up for England. 100 for 3. Still 159 needed just to make Australia bat again.

Well Vince bowled by a pearler. No blame for him getting out to that. Vince goes for 55. England 100 for 4.

Alfie I think Vince is showing hes very much a Bell right now. With him and Root England have the wuwality equivelant mid order to KP and Bell.
The problem is one of them has to play 3 currently (as Bell did for a couple of periods in his career)
With Malan too showing he can make runs in tests I really dont see much of a problem with the mid order.

Its the top 3 thats a problem, especially if Cook retires soon or cant sort his footwork out. Vince is having a great innings but I think we all agree hes not natural on that position or truely fair that hes played there


Vince bowled as i type to a brilliant ball from Starc

What a delivery that was from Starc!

Absolutely unplayable- very very bad luck for Vince

Seems the crack played a big part turning the delivery into an off-break.

That is very unlucky. Straight off the crack. Was looking so good as well.

Gooseberry wrote:Alfie I think Vince is showing hes very much a Bell right now. With him and Root England have the wuwality equivelant mid order to KP and Bell.
The problem is one of them has to play 3 currently (as Bell did for a couple of periods in his career)
With Malan too showing he can make runs in tests I really dont see much of a problem with the mid order.

Its the top 3 thats a problem, especially if Cook retires soon or cant sort his footwork out. Vince is having a great innings but I think we all agree hes not natural on that position or truely fair that hes played there


Vince bowled as i type to a brilliant ball from Starc

Goose for once you and I are agreed I think... It is indeed the top three (no Strauss no Trott) but without them would Bell and Pietersen have done so well I wonder ?

That was an absolute cracker from Starc Pity ; Vince had played really well.

Anyway that rather remains the issue : unless Cook recovers his form that top three looks virtually non-exist ant.

Possible futures : Cook Stoneman Hameed Root Malan Vince Bairstow ...plus bowlers. (Three of them can bowl a few overs)
Or
Stoneman/Cook Hameed Root Vince Malan Stokes Bairstow + (assuming Ben is out of jail and back in favour)

Yes I am putting a lot of faith in Hameed.

They'd still have a real Test against this attack in its present form but I reckon I'd back them back in English conditions at least.

Its almost looking as if England will not survive today. In a way I want rain to wash this out so the series stays alive but on the other hand, I do not want rain as I would prefer to see results were the better team wins.

Not a lot Vince can do with that delivery. A real shame as he was playing so well

Boycott blaming Vince for that delivery perfectly sums up how awful the BT coverage has been. What a deluded old fart

(The only good thing has been the BT Sport app letting you go back to specific points in the days play)

Without wishing to harp that hour to lunch on day two has lost this Test in identical fashion to the same period in Brisbane. Yes the Australian bowling was good : but there is no real excuse for losing 6/35 - and they've done it twice now.
If they were all getting cleaned up by balls like the one Starc just delivered , fair enough. But in fact a lot of those wickets were down to loose shots - and not just the rabbits. This is what has disappointed me most about this series : all it needed was two players to hang in for forty minutes in either game and I'm certain it would not be 3-0 going to Melbourne.
Australia - who really aren't all that with the bat , Smith apart - have battled out those crisis situations : England haven't.
Much of this must be mental. And it is here I am questioning the coaching staff - perhaps unfairly ? But surely getting the players switched on at the vital times must be part of their remit ?

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Boycott blaming Vince for that delivery perfectly sums up how awful the BT coverage has been. What a deluded old fart

(The only good thing has been the BT Sport app letting you go back to specific points in the days play)

Boycott is right but also wrong. He is right that Vince closed his bat on the delivery but wrong because every other ball bowled like that was aimed at leg stump so that ball also was then Vince would have got bat on ball and maybe a boundary.

Sometimes a great ball will get you out, it was very clever bowling from Starc.

Quite amazingly, (would it be a first) that England hit 400+ in the first innings yet are staring down the barrel of an innings defeat. England 132 for 4.

Rain stops play. Probably very briefly.

Not good for England if this is only a brief stop for rain. Gives the Aussie bowlers a little break and they will come out on fire again.

eirebilly wrote:Not good for England if this is only a brief stop for rain. Gives the Aussie bowlers a little break and they will come out on fire again.

I agree.

It also breaks the bstsmen's concentration and they have to switch on again straight away. Dangerous time.

Alfie youre putting a lot of faith in Stoneman too if you think hes a Strauss Cook Vaughn level opener.

Yep, concentration is not England's greatest asset this tour...

Disgusting that they’re coming off for rain - back in the day our Geoffrey would’ve dodged the raindrops whilst blocking out 100mph in swingers from Dennis Lillie. What has the game become

Gooseberry wrote:Alfie youre putting a lot of faith in Stoneman too if you think hes a Strauss Cook Vaughn level opener.

At present he is about the best of a bad bunch.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Quite amazingly, (would it be a first) that England hit 400+ in the first innings yet are staring down the barrel of an innings defeat. England 132 for 4.

Didn't it happen in India ? To be honest I feared a fast 400 wouldn't be enough to insulate them from defeat unless they took a bunch of early wickets : this ground always supports fast scoring once good batsmen get in so the Australian reply wasn't unexpected (perhaps the eventual total was at the upper end !)

Had hoped they'd do better than this batting again. But it just isn't happening for Cook ; and Root is looking increasingly scrambled. Nice to see Vince play so attractively ; and Malan reinforcing his credentials ...I think he is the one newcomer who is nailed on to continue.

Play to resume in ten minutes.

Alfie, in this innings three out of four of the wickets to fall were gifts. Stoneman prodding at a delivery that was not threatening the stumps. Cook's awry footwork seeing him get a leading edge and Root needlessly chasing a loosener from Nathan Lyon.

Gooseberry wrote:Alfie youre putting a lot of faith in Stoneman too if you think hes a Strauss Cook Vaughn level opener.

No I don't put him in that class at all. I think he's worth persevering with : if Hameed comes back and Cook recovers form he's no sure thing to continue for long ; but unless a real number three appears from nowhere I reckon he will get a few more chances. But he's not the next Boycott/Gooch/Trescothick/Cook, whatever. ((Hameed possibly not either but I'm hoping he can do a job at worst , and maybe...)

To be honest I'd not put serious money on anyone other than Root being in the top six when Australia tour in 2019. Presumably some of them will , but which is anyone's guess...

Oddly enough it isn't the top order that have really failed the team this trip : the way five out has been all out has been the killer...and this really seems to show just how vital Stokes was to the structure of this team.

Wonder how well Australia would have done here if Smith was unavailable ?

Players take to the pitch but as they do another shower hits and the players head back off the field.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Play to resume in ten minutes.

Alfie, in this innings three out of four of the wickets to fall were gifts. Stoneman prodding at a delivery that was not threatening the stumps. Cook's awry footwork seeing him get a leading edge and Root needlessly chasing a loosener from Nathan Lyon.

Well I'm not surprised a couple of early wickets fell after two days in the field . But I'd really only call Root's wicket a gift in that he had no need to play the shot - the others were reasonably regular cases of openers failing to cope with good bowling.

The gifts that counted were in the first innings.

Plays off

Play abandond for the day.

I would imagine play will start at 2am tomorrow morning.

To address the bowling issue : perhaps the rabid - sorry I mean loaded - dog doesn't rate Anderson ; but he's been England's best (again) on this trip , even if less consistent than he'd like. Broad however started well and then somehow lost it completely ...I do not know why ...but he doesn't currently look likely to buy a wicket. A major blow for the tourists.
Woakes has had the odd moment ; but has been largely disappointing (and also very ordinary with the bat.) A Test career that looked to be taking off may turn out to be a short one if he doesn't get his act together.
Overton has looked very promising. May not be super fast ; but he upsets people with his bounce. Will be around the team now I think.

Ball may wish he hadn't come on tour.
Moeen almost certainly will. Though where are his challengers ? In fairness I don't think he's been fully fit at all ; but his failures here will dog him in the future as he already has many critics who would prefer a "pure" spin bowler to a useful all rounder.

Next year presents opportunity for the likes of Wood , TRJ , Curran - perhaps the other Overton ?

They'd still like Stokes back...

So rain keeps the series alive for now...

Thing is, the new guys who have come into the team (Stoneman, Vince, Malan, Overton) have all done well to acceptable. So I find it tough to criticise the selectors too much when it's the senior players letting the side down (Cook/Root/Ali have been really poor with the bat, Woakes/Broad and Anderson a bit (harsh maybe - but he has wasted the new ball by consistently bowling short) have all been poor with the ball).

Only senior player who can hold his head up and say he's done fine is Bairstow really. Not going to win many series with that formula!

Thanks alfie. Yes, Stokes may certainly have made a difference. Silly boy isn't he?

Just heard Jimmy interviewed and expressing his concern about the cracks assisting our bowlers; Starc's wicket in particular.

Seems as though they were OK for his lbws but now he would like them to disappear for England to have a chance at salvaging a draw.
He wishes! Oh... and he is banking on some rain too.

Need a hell of a lot of rain ! Not even wishing for it...if they can't bat their way out of it then 3-0 is fair enough.

Have any wickets really been down to cracks in the wicket ? That Starc ball was a rocket anyway ; guess the movement was a bit extreme but it is day four... Think the cracks are more there to make the batsmen fear there's one with their name on it ...not that it seemed to worry Smith much.

Excellent bowling from Australia this afternoon : no expectation it would just happen , they really got stuck in from the start , Hazlewood continues to do a wonderful job , taking vital wickets again. Any fears the three quicks would burn out seem to have been groundless...the England bowlers are looking more like dropping - though I suppose that is because they're having to keep working much longer hours

Jokes aside I have to commend Smith and his men for an outstanding effort in this match in particular : coming back after the Malan-Bairstow stand to sweep away the rest of the innings was a wonderful performance , however critical we might be of some of the England players.
As eirebilly says sometimes you just have to admit you've been outplayed.

The Loaded Dog wrote:Thanks alfie. Yes, Stokes may certainly have made a difference. Silly boy isn't he?

Just heard Jimmy interviewed and expressing his concern about the cracks assisting our bowlers; Starc's wicket in particular.

Seems as though they were OK for his lbws but now he would like them to disappear for England to have a chance at salvaging a draw.
He wishes! Oh... and he is banking on some rain too.

LD - was that the same interview in which Alison Mitchell asked Jimmy, ''Do you have confidence in the two guys batting out there now?''. Jeepers - what a ridiculous question. What's the poor guy meant to say in response to that?