India VS South Africa

First topic message reminder :

Though am posting here bit late.

Indian team for South Africa has a bit of surprise with the coming of Jasprit Bumrah. He has not bowled with the red ball since January 2017. Indian team rarely go with a backup WK. Yeah this is a welcome call for Parthiv Patel, but I hardly see any chance of him padding up.

Rest the team is quite similar with Vijay, Rahul, Dhawan, Virat(c), Pujara, Rahane, Rohit, Saha, Parthiv, Ashwin, Jadeja, Hardik, Bhubhneshwar, Shami, Ishant, Umesh, Bumrah.

The final 11 selection would be tricky for Kohli, as he might go for only one spinner and this time its difficult to chose between Jadeja and Ashwin. I think Dhawan will be carrying drinks and Rahul will bat. The probable 11 would be

Vijay
Rahul
Pujara
Kohli(c)
Rahane
Hardik
Ashwin
Saha
Bhubhneshwar
Shami
Umesh/Bumrah

What a lucky break for India ...
given that seamers are bowling at slower rates..... and weather may play up a bit 180 overs is realistically likely

Inspite of the collapse India played out 75 overs.....so when batting cautiously and presumably in easier conditions....and SA having only 3 seamers now......they can play out a 100 overs for survival.
SA has to set 110 overs....means they get bowled out or have too declare in 70 overs too give themselves enough time....

Key for India is not to be adventurous and get too excited and try too hard to take wicket
bowl quick and steady just outside off stump....without experimenting too much....let the pitch do the trick and batsman make the mistakes
Outside or wide outside off...use your two bouncer quota....
In and out field......have a 3rd man, sweeper cover and a deep fine leg...to avoid leaky , streaky boundaries.

Let SA batsman try to force the pace to earn a win with time clock tick tick ticking in their mind adding pressure

In the other World XI thread I had written SA MUST try Steyn but as one of 5 bowlers.......because they cannot afford him to break down in the midst of a game as one of 4 bowlers
they listened
and he duly broke down
his test match days may be over I am afraid

Huge shame about Steyn, that was very briefly the best 4 man pace attack in recent history...4 true stars.

India indeed delivered a lifeline : but I still fancy SA to force a win . They have a nice lead already and players who can score pretty quickly...unless there is more weather I think India will be given a pretty tough examination if they're to survive.
They haven't had to play for a draw too often lately...

Seems KP_fan's "easier conditions " haven't materialized

Looking like a very interesting finish...and we can forget about the draw!

71-4, Kohli gone LBW to Philander and India need 136 with 6 wickets left, all top four back in the hutch.

Five down now.

With the top order decimated, South Africa should now clean up.

111 to get ...last 3 wickets.  Theyve made a game of it.

 Indias poor bowling on day 1 has really cost them. Some forgiveness for struggling against a pace attack of this calibre on a lottery wicket.

Some thoughts on Philander. What would Jimmy Anderson give to be in Philander's shoes? The South African is kept in cotton wool by his team, often misses matches thru injury and then is unleashed for short spells when the going is good.
   That's not to say he does not do exceptionally well when the conditions are right. It's just that you never seem to see him having to put in the hard yards on ultra-hot days in Sydney. I keep waiting for his average to start climbing to the mid or high 20s, but it never does as he just doesn't seem to bowl - or even start - when the going gets tough.
   I admit this is all a bit unfair on him, as he has an exceptional Test record. But for some reason that low Test bowling average really bugs me. Is he that good?

SA just dont play a lot of tests full stop. But they also clearly have a system that encourages good fast bowlers....to have a near seamless transition from Ntini and Steyn via Morkel to Rababda and Philander with de Lang and others who would walk into an England team hanging out in the background does suggest they have a much better pathway for developing world class fast bowlers than the ECB does. 
His record is padded by having played a large number of tests on favourable wickets...SA have a habit of producing ridiculous wickets and hes played very few games (7) in Asia where his record is much worse.
Judge him on the guys hes bolwed alongside on the same wickets. Hes clearly up there with the best quicks in the modern game.

I mean, Anderson averages 40 in South Africa but okay, he'd love to bowl here

Good game though. A difficult, but playable wicket was turned into a raging mamba after 36 hours under the covers to regain its moisture.

That pace attack was, for like four hours, night on unplayable. On balance, even with a trash batting line up, this might be the greatest XI we've ever put out.

It wasn't an impossible task to chase 200 odd for a win...

and the magnitude of the defeat i.e runs is humumgous given the lowly scores

when Philander bowling at 126kph with the WK standing up to him becomes unplayable, questions should be raised on the quality of the pitch also, given that 18 wickets fell in under a day

There are many sub-plots that this loss can be attributed to.....the two main plots....

1) India gave away 80 runs too many to SA after having them 12-3 due to bad bowling  lengths and not having a plan-B  Devilliers and others who decided to flash and attack


2) I have lamented a dozen times and one more time have to point out it was criminal to leave Rahane and Rahul for Rohit and Dhawan...playing the two ultra FTBs on the "seamingest pitch" in the world

and while that action of leaving them was terrible on its own...it raises bigger concerns on the mind-set, sanity and strategy making ability of Kohli& shastri and their capability to read game/ pitch/ match situations

--Its a no-brainer we've gotta get those two back

--Ashwin, Saha and Pandya are all naked at No. 6 if the pitches continue to be similar
that's the other conundrum that India needs to overcome for which there are only two ways out...
1) drop a bowler( most likely Ashwin) and play a batsman
OR
2) bring Parthiv in who is as good as a specialist batsman and play him at No.6  would be hard on Saha who has kept wickets brilliantly

Saffers 78-0 after the first session

--This pitch is like many that we saw during ahses.......flat by SA standards, but if in India it would be called "sporty"... something in it for those who can dig it in.....and like Lyon used to get spin on D1 and D2 ....ashwin did for India
Ind did well to restrict SA to 335 odd......every one bowled well and Bumrah exceed 90mph....others touched the mark

--India made a correction and a half..
getting rahul in was the right move and replacing saha with Patel was as I suggested a move on the cards via an Injury of convenience to Saha, improved batting skills, although Parthiv scored only 19 but he is capable of scoring a valuable 40 odd in the second inning chase in quick time with nudges and cuts

--Having Rohit in is just not justifiable and a case of Kohli/Shastri being stubborn and egoistic to not acknowledge the mistake....but they would have no choice but to dump him for T3 and he won't even make it in the squad on the next tour

India batted better but not well enough...one of the openers or Pujara had to get a 100...all 3 of them were capable....Vijay did get a well made 46 but couldn't convert and hence India is looking stretched to even equalize....but Kohli is in good nick and Pandya in awesome form from T1..... and Ashwin can bat.....and Ishant can stubbornly defend and sahmi can slog a few......so if one of Pandya or Kohli keeps going...India can get close

--and then it will be a one inning shoot out.......India has a trump weapon in aswhin on a pitch that's showing signs of unevenness and will increasingly so....
and chasing 200ish would be just about even....and if the chase gets to 250 then SA huge favorite

SA is ahead nevertheless at this moment

--the new kid Ngidi, built like Pat Patterson and some similarities in action also i think... is raw but with potential....rabada impressed but Mahraj surprisingly inspite of his successes in much less helpful conditions wasn't looking a threat at all today...the wicket of Vijay notwithstanding was due to latter's adventurism

--and Philander belly dangling, unfit looking Edo Brandes like... bowling 124-129kph with WK standing up looks only an ultra-seaming pitch / conditions dependent bowler.

Winning the toss may in the end be the crucial differentiation between the sides in terms of end result

Masterful effort from Kohli dragged India to within 28 runs of the Saffers.

South Africa were then reduced to 3/2, but ABDV and Elgar are rebuilding nicely. 41/2.

Any target above 200 will be tough for India; above 250 and South Africa should be comfortable.

Saffers 60-2 at tea, 88 ahead. Crucial last session incoming!

Sadly disrupted by rain. Still, a good forecast for day four and five should mean a positive result happens.

South Africa have got the lead past 200 with 5 wickets down.
 
4/9 still available on them winning, which just seems a delight.

Depedns on the weather forcast I guess but seems generous odds. You cant see India chasing down muchb over 250 even on a flat pitch and SA could easily get a lead well over 300.
Similar script to last time...India arent pushovers but SA are too good with the new ball and India not quite good enough in either discpline to beat them in their own back yard.

Good weather for the rest of the game, supposedly.

South Africa crawling towards a lead of 250 now. Really difficult to score out there with lots of uneven bounce and plenty of turn.

South Africa fall short of a target of 300. They are bowled out for 258 and so India need 287 runs to win. The way the pitch is playing though it will be a damned fine effort if India chase this down.

Still 34 overs left today. For India they will be happy to get through to close on around 85 for 1. South Africa will want to make good inroads and will look to reduce India to around 75 for 4.

Rabada gets a ball to dip back and low bounce bowls Vijay. India are 11 for 1.

Michael Holding saying he didn’t know who the favourites were for this game at the start of the fourth innings. 

If India won this, it would be one of the great test chases. Lots of balls keeping low...and the first wicket!

Ngidi (the debutant) gets a wicket. As commentators say a soft dismissal. India 16 for 2. Rahul caught cutting uppishly at point.

Will be a minor miracle if India chase this down

India the World No 1 Test side. Anybody know what happens if they lose this series?

They stay number one. The gap is massive

Gooseberry wrote:They stay number one. The gap is massive

Cheers Gooseberry.

Another ball that keeps devilishly low traps Kohli LBW - another wicket for Ngidi. Reviewed but decision stands. India 26 for 3.

Peach of a delivery to remove Kohli by Ngidi.

That’s probably the game.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:They stay number one. The gap is massive

Cheers Gooseberry.

3-0 would mean India and SA both on 118 (with India still number 1), but SA would have an opportunity to displace the Indians during their series against Australia.

https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/rankings-predictor/test

India close on 35 for 3 after 23 overs. They are still 252 runs away from a highly improbable win with seven wickets left standing.

Helpful conditions for the bowlers? Absolutely. But the South African seamers, particularly Ngidi who looks a fine talent, bowled superbly, restricting India's scoring and making full use of the slow track.

Can't see any other result than a South African win. And with it the series.

South Africa seal the series win by beating India by 135 runs. Star of the show was Ngidi who iobliterated the Indian batting line-up to end up with a sixfor on his debut.

KP_fan wrote:

--the new kid Ngidi, built like Pat Patterson and some similarities in action also i think... is raw but with potential....

That comparison with Patterson is an interesting one...Ngidi was outstanding!!

--Tigers at Home & Lambs Abroad is a rather unkind way to address India's  test match situation....
And One if Kohli hears, will get angry....
But it's not far from truth.....at this point in time...

--Much more was expected from Kohli's team....especially given his talk, talk, talk...that he has failed to walk the walk so far

--I am not a believer in naming positives in a defeat....there may be positives but what matters now at this point in the evolution of this Indian cricket test match team is only RESULTS

--Kohli has changed the test match playing 11 in every game that he has captained except for dropping himself.....his selections have been worrying not for the overt mistakes, but for the underlying flawed thought process....selecting ODI FTBs at the cost of proper test match batsmen being the most glaring in seaming conditions

Though much as getting the team he wants is his prerogative.....and they gave him even the coach he wanted, which wasn't his prerogative.....and he talked the talked.....now anything short of results....is not acceptable
He's gotta deliver, else his rope will be rather short...as a captain

For T3 selctions should be  straight forward for India

Rahane for Rohit
and Bhuvi for Ishant only in case pitch is a seaming one like T1
BUT
given Kohli's stubborness in justifying Rohit and trying to force a square peg in a round hole.....we might see India drop one of the 5 bowlers..... and keep Rohit in

and play with only 4 bowlers including Pandya...and jutsify with some fuzzy wordsmithed talk about conditions etc

Back here after quite a while...
A series that had a huge build-up is turning out to be rather one-sided. The Indian bowlers have done better than the batsmen though they let slip a crucial advantage on the firstday of the series that eventually proved to be decisive. But the batting has been substandard and catching poor. The most obnoxious aspect of India's performance in the series has been the absolutely pathetic selection calls from Virat Kohli. The Captain Brat him gets out far too often particularly when India plays away from home. His pal Rohit Sharma can be a semi-decent reserve batsman in tests when playing on flat tracks though there are much better options to be a proper reserve. But the fellow can't play the moving ball, can't handle bounce, all in all a complete and utter disaster when playing in seaming conditions. Kohli dropped Cheteshwar Pujara to accommodate Rohit in the West Indies, and now has gone a further step towards insanity by dropping Ajinkya Rahane for Rohit. Between Shikhar Dhawan and KL Rahul, the latter clearly is the better bat, but Kohli thinks the only way Indian batsmen can survive in seaming conditions is by blasting away mindlessly. So he picked Dhawan for the first test, found out quickly that the approach wasn't going to work, but by that time gave Rahul the wrong message. And dropping Bhuvi for the 2nd test made no sense whatsoever.
What will he come up with for the 3rd test? Don't expect Rohit Sharma to be dropped even if the captain has to drop himself! So it could be Ashwin, or Ishant or even Hardik Pandya who might get the ax to retain Sharma and bring back Rahane.
Having become the most powerful player in the cricket world who is allowed to ax and pick coatches, Kohli has to be held accountable. Yes, he batted brilliantly for that 153, but he is damaging the team...

good to see you back msp

He got Rahane in finally & Rohit out.....hopefully for good

But captain stubborn in his desire to want to show, "he's different"....he's dropped Ashwin also

Ashwin was doing a good job...and however seaming a pitch might be......a spinner over a course of 4 innings will
come in handy at some point

and on a seaming pitch you do not need 5 seamers....3 are sufficient and 4th a luxury who will be underbowled and 5th one will be surplus

Have to say the selections by India look very muddled. The media has it that Kholi very much calls the shots, is that true? Are there not coaches and others with political influence exerting some control over the sides make up?
This particular line up is every bit as starnge as the others. I can understand them, wanting to beef up the batting but no Ashwin seems unthinkable, espeiclaly when you have a pretty average cricketer like Bumrah included. Conditions or not they are playing three guys who bowl like county cricket dibbly dobblers. Bhuvi I can excuse because whilst nbo Philander hes good enough to get away with it, and Pandya is a decent mid order bat ...but all 3 in a side together? Just how green is this pitch? Its not like bowling at that pace theyd get tired quickly, and if they are bowling 30 overs each then India have already lost the game.

It looks like SA have made a similar selection choice too, turning to a guy whos neither a great bowler nor a proper all rounder which just seems weird. The difference is their spinner isnt the best in the world or a decent number 7 bat.


Top order is failing badly again regardless.

into the 14th over for just 19 runs ... 5 of which are extras.
Pujaras faced 29 balls without scoring.

Geoff Boycotts Gran with a stick of rhubarb wouldve struggled here.

Top class venue, worlds two best test sides, green top, some of the best bowlers/batsmen in the world on show...and about 200 people in the ground watching...

...and people wonder why SA hardly play any tests. Sad.

Pujaras now faced 51 balls without even accidentaly edging a run. Unreal. (First run came on his 54th ball!)
8 of the 27 scored in 20 overs have come from extras.


Philander 8 overs 1 for 1


Noone can accuse India of not battling and not being up for a fight. Facing this attack in these conditions it wouldve bene all to easy for Pujara and Kholi to get out in the same way the openers did but theyve really knuckled down and started to cash in on the part timer. They are still a long way off a decnet total but hats off to them for seeing out the new ball and batting for pride.

How Pujara is batting here is how Him and Rahul and Vijay and Rahane should have batted in all 3 tests...
with Kohli and pandya and Parthiv the shotmakers around....that's the only way to play in such conditions against such a high quality attack

12 runs in 5 balls! Then a wide and a single...

This is turning into a true test match. Theres been some chances but this is starting to look a lot better for India.

Pujara & Kohli batted as well as they can in the conditions and conditions are more suited for seam bowling then even T1
there is much more bounce in the pitch
Rahane and one of tjhe openers needed to get 20s and 30s
144-6
upto Pandya and bowlers to get us to 200 that may be a fighting total

Maybe spoke to soon about India collectively ....two players can hold their heads up. Seems the rest of the team lacks the ability and concentration to bat through.

It couldve been a lot worse but looks unlikley they will get close to 200 now.

Really tough batting conditions. India haven’t done too badly to get to where they are, though they do have some sub-standard fielding to thank.