Dragons Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

[munkian]

First topic message reminder :

Their backs. Wow.

Jackman really can't settle on a hooker mind.

Just saw Simon Thomas tweet Leon Brown has suffered a second concussion. If that's so, I wonder if that means the first wasn't really dealt with properly?

Are you sure ? I've read it that he suffered a concussion so he hasn't been picked INCASE he suffers another.

[RiscaGame]

Hopefully Dan Jones will be better as a referee, than he was an assistant. He literally did nothing yesterday.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I remember he was the referee when we imploded against Edinburgh away last season.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Did anyone see this? If it was when we were pressing for a try at the end, it would have been the opposite end of the ground from me.

The Dragons are sweating on the availability of Elliot Dee for their Guinness PRO14 derby against the Ospreys on New Year’s Eve after the Wales hooker was cited for making contact with the referee against Cardiff Blues.

The 23-year-old from Newbridge bumped into Irish official Andrew Brace in the closing stages of the 22-17 Boxing Day loss to the men from the capital.

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/15797450.Dragons__Dee_a_derby_doubt_after_PRO14_citing/

If it was accidental, then surely they don't need to take any further action - and if it was deliberate, wouldn't Brace have penalised him at the time?

EDIT: I've just seen it. It's a little nudge, Brace doesn't even totter let alone fall over, and it's play on. What a farce. They have to throw this out - and then discipline the citing commissioner!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

'The Dragons have selected Elliot Dee in their XV for the New Year's Eve derby against the Ospreys at Rodney Parade (kick-off 5.35pm) – while Gavin Henson will not face his former side.

'Head coach Bernard Jackman has made eight changes to his XV for the clash with the Ospreys after the disappointment against the Blues, with Henson not in the 23.

'The former Wales and Lions playmaker was off colour against the Blues and Arwel Robson gets the 10 jersey with Angus O’Brien his back-up.'

Dragons: C Meyer, A Hewitt, S Beard, J Dixon, J Rosser, A Robson, D Babos, S Hobbs, E Dee, L Fairbrother, C Hill (captain), R Landman, A Wainwright, B Roach, J Benjamin. Replacements: L Belcher, T Davies, N Thomas, R Blake, J Sheekey, S Pretorius, A O’Brien, J Sage.

Ospreys: D Evans, H Dirksen, K Fonotia, O Watkin, J Hassler, D Biggar, R Webb, N Smith, S Baldwin, D Arhip, B Davies, A Beard, D Lydiate (captain), J Tipuric, O Cracknell, S Otten, P James, M Fia, AW Jones, R McCusker, T Habberfield, S Davies, A Beck

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/15798363.TEAM_NEWS__Dragons_name_cited_Dee_in_XV_for_Ospreys___but_Henson_misses_out/

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Robson Blake off the bench could be just what we need, but it's bizarre that Arwel Robson had leapfrogged O'Brien.

[RiscaGame]

Very bizarre indeed. Angus did ok when he came on too. I like the look of our team more than the one against Cardiff, on the whole though.

Reference the Dee citing, it’s shocking. There’s an example a minute before or after of a Blues player doing similar too, yet no citing there. Also, a shot to the head by Matthew Rees doesn’t warrant looking at either?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Apparently not!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

How's the optimism after the last few games, folks?

[Stone Motif]

How's the optimism after the last few games, folks?

Exactly the same, zero. It's the same squad of players Kingsley had really plus a 35 year old Gavin Henson. Next year is the acid test, and it will be the same as this without a carrying threat in the tight five.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Elliot Dee and Ashton Hewitt both out for the Scarlets game. James Sheekey's also injured now.

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/15802943.Teenage_flanker_Basham_to_make_Dragons_debut_against_Scarlets/

[RiscaGame]

I still expected a little more from five home games. I am also a little annoyed by Jackman promising better things from them. I get we have injuries, but Dragons always tend to do that, especially in certain areas. I would be surprised if he said similar again.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing what Basham can do. Kind of expected Henson to not miss out again.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I suppose expectations were raised (along with pressure) after he sent a second-string side out to Ulster. We had that long run of away games and the payoff was meant to be these home games.

It's a real shame we've had these injuries because we genuinely did look a better side earlier in the season (I'm thinking of Edinburgh away in particular), and it was our defence that was letting us down. But to the casual derby observer, it's fair to ask whether we've improved at all from last season.

[Cardiff Dave]

Yurs a stocking filler. Quite literally.
Or shove it down your pants.
Feel the Dave vibe!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Security-Battery-Powered-Vibration-Detector/dp/B00554MLPI

Not even a single oscillation. Fawlty or battery flat I guess.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

This isn't going to be pretty:

Scarlets: R Patchell; T Prydie, S Hughes, H Parkes, I Nicholas; D Jones, A Davies; R Evans, K Owens, S Lee, S Cummins, D Bulbring, A Shingler, J Davies, J Barclay. Replacements: R Elias, W Jones, S Gardiner, L Rawlins, W Boyde, J Evans, GR Jones, M Williams.

Dragons: C Meyer; P Howard, S Beard, J Dixon, J Rosser; A Robson, D Babos; L Garrett, L Belcher, N Thomas, J Davies, C Hill (captain), A Wainwright, T Basham, J Benjamin. Replacements: E Shipp, T Davies, L Fairbrother, R Landman, R Blake, S Pretorius, A O’Brien, J Sage.

[RiscaGame]

Oh heck.

Probably pretty fortunate that they are missing players too. I guess our team is as strong as we could put out, with our injuries and Henson "requiring more training".

[Luckless Pedestrian]

That's the thing, he's not resting players this time as far as I can see (Henson aside). Of course, people won't take our injuries into account when (if?) we lose.

The difference in the front and back rows is huge.

[RiscaGame]

Dragons v Edinburgh being played at Ebbw Vale. Can't wait to rub shoulders with the disenfranchised types up there.

[Stone Motif]

Dragons v Edinburgh being played at Ebbw Vale. Can't wait to rub shoulders with the disenfranchised types up there.

Best buy that ticket early

[Stone Motif]

Whose just bought all the shares in WRU 1 and the stadium company then?

[Cardiff Dave]

Dragons v Edinburgh being played at Ebbw Vale. Can't wait to rub shoulders with the disenfranchised types up there.

Best buy that ticket early

Buy?
Spose there'll be free bus travel available from Dave to EXP and back again for the Rodderati. Like when Cardiff played at their reejunal ground in Leckwith.

[mikey_dragon]

Whose just bought all the shares in WRU 1 and the stadium company then?

PhilBB.

[Stone Motif]

Well, I hope the brutal prison love dished out last night will at least put an end to any nonsense about any of the signings (bar Hibbard) we've made for next season making a bit of difference to this team. If the next recruits aren't competent props and lock forwards then those calling out Jackson as a charlatan will have been proved right. Jordan fwcking Williams FFS.

[RiscaGame]

A lot of our supporters on social media are incredibly naive aye. Even if we sort one of our problem areas out, other teams are going to strengthen anyway. I am losing a bit of faith in Jackman, to be honest. Yes we’ve had injuries, but no professional team should get shamed like that. If Scarlets had not been so gash first half, it could’ve been 80.

We have now gone backwards from last season and that’s frightening.

[mikey_dragon]

This pretty much happens every time we face an international standard pack. BJ said just last week that we don’t have enough players who are big and physical enough so I’m still convinced (and hoping) that we will be making more front 5 signings. I’m not sure if we’ve gone backwards but it certainly looks like most other teams have improved. With a few players out we certainly aren’t at the required level though, that’s been obvious since pre-season.

[VinceWLB]

This pretty much happens every time we face an international standard pack. BJ said just last week that we don’t have enough players who are big and physical enough so I’m still convinced (and hoping) that we will be making more front 5 signings. I’m not sure if we’ve gone backwards but it certainly looks like most other teams have improved. With a few players out we certainly aren’t at the required level though, that’s been obvious since pre-season.

And yet you keep your most physical player (Landman) on the bench.

This Jackman isn't very good. People seem to have forgotten what he did to Grenoble.

[Stone Motif]

This pretty much happens every time we face an international standard pack. BJ said just last week that we don’t have enough players who are big and physical enough so I’m still convinced (and hoping) that we will be making more front 5 signings. I’m not sure if we’ve gone backwards but it certainly looks like most other teams have improved. With a few players out we certainly aren’t at the required level though, that’s been obvious since pre-season.

And yet you keep your most physical player (Landman) on the bench.

This Jackman isn't very good. People seem to have forgotten what he did to Grenoble.

Landman has not lived up to his first season potential - he's as powder puff as the rest of our locks

[VinceWLB]

This pretty much happens every time we face an international standard pack. BJ said just last week that we don’t have enough players who are big and physical enough so I’m still convinced (and hoping) that we will be making more front 5 signings. I’m not sure if we’ve gone backwards but it certainly looks like most other teams have improved. With a few players out we certainly aren’t at the required level though, that’s been obvious since pre-season.

And yet you keep your most physical player (Landman) on the bench.

This Jackman isn't very good. People seem to have forgotten what he did to Grenoble.

Landman has not lived up to his first season potential - he's as powder puff as the rest of our locks

I think that's because he hasn't been given a run of games to get up to speed and strength. Surely, in his first season, anyone could see the sheer physicality he brought to the team.

I actually think that a front 5 of Hobbs, Dee, Harris (another one whose form has dropped, why?) Landman, Hill isn't too bad when all are at their best. Outside these guys it's absolutely threadbare.

[Stone Motif]

This pretty much happens every time we face an international standard pack. BJ said just last week that we don’t have enough players who are big and physical enough so I’m still convinced (and hoping) that we will be making more front 5 signings. I’m not sure if we’ve gone backwards but it certainly looks like most other teams have improved. With a few players out we certainly aren’t at the required level though, that’s been obvious since pre-season.

And yet you keep your most physical player (Landman) on the bench.

This Jackman isn't very good. People seem to have forgotten what he did to Grenoble.

Landman has not lived up to his first season potential - he's as powder puff as the rest of our locks

I think that's because he hasn't been given a run of games to get up to speed and strength. Surely, in his first season, anyone could see the sheer physicality he brought to the team.

I actually think that a front 5 of Hobbs, Dee, Harris (another one whose form has dropped, why?) Landman, Hill isn't too bad when all are at their best. Outside these guys it's absolutely threadbare.

sheer physicality? Lack of a run of games? He's a second rate forward that would not be first choice at any other pro team in Europe. Ditto the rest on that list except Dee possibly. Harris is injured anyway.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

A lot of our supporters on social media are incredibly naive aye. Even if we sort one of our problem areas out, other teams are going to strengthen anyway. I am losing a bit of faith in Jackman, to be honest. Yes we’ve had injuries, but no professional team should get shamed like that. If Scarlets had not been so gash first half, it could’ve been 80.

We have now gone backwards from last season and that’s frightening.

It's a miracle we kept it under 50.

It's not a surprise that a pack with an all-international front row and back row would dominate one that's not only not Test standard (apart from Hill, and some will debate that) but not first or even second choice in many positions either. It also shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the reigning champions have better squad depth than the team that finished one from bottom last season. But having said that, I do have a feeling that Jackman's approach has turned a fair few of these players - the ones that know they're on their way out - against him. And he needs these players. Some of them will need to play for the rest of the season.

But it's not just personnel. There was a chasm between the sides in terms of mental sharpness. The second the Scarlets turned the ball over, they were all switched on for the counter. There was always a support runner. The contrast when we had the ball was depressing.

At this point, it's worth remembering that Jackman was Gatland's pick for the job.

[Stone Motif]

The Gatland point is very valid and increasingly a concern. Jackman seems to have the same dictatorial coaching style which hardly encourages individual responsibility and thought.

[RiscaGame]

Tend to agree on the similarities with Gatland and Jackman.

[XR]

When you think that Gatland was likely involved in the decision making of who to hire, someone like Jackman would appeal to him.

I think there needs to be more scrutiny on Jackman, it's all well and good spreading the message of 'affinity' and wanted to represent the whole of Gwent but there needs to be more focus in coaching a side which have been on the slide for a few years now.  He hasn't done that, all he's done is given up on away games and focused on home games and when you do that...you need to win your home games and if you don't then there's a problem.

The signing Ross moriarty will not improve the front 5, hibbard may do but you can't tell me with Elliot Dee's emergence that he's a good investment, they'll probably be paying him good money to be a bench player.  That money could have been invested in a second row or a fly half (Henson won't be there long I don't think).

I want the Dragons to do well but putting all hopes of being a better side next season with no visible improvement in this season is dangerous for Jackman and the WRU, if they fail what comes then?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It's unfair to say there's been no improvement this season. We were definitely playing a wider ball-in-hand game in the opening games, and our forwards looked comfortable playing it. Until fairly recently we'd won more scrum penalties than any other side in the league (probably not any more though) and we were scoring tries fairly frequently from driving mauls, which is a huge turnaround from previous seasons. But for various reasons, there's been a slide in the last month or so, which unfortunately has coincided with the derby games on which we're usually judged.

Speaking of derby games, that was one of the worst things about the Scarlets game - it should have been a big deal, but there was no sense of that at Parc y Scarlets. It was a gimme for them.

[Stone Motif]

When you think that Gatland was likely involved in the decision making of who to hire, someone like Jackman would appeal to him.

I think there needs to be more scrutiny on Jackman, it's all well and good spreading the message of 'affinity' and wanted to represent the whole of Gwent but there needs to be more focus in coaching a side which have been on the slide for a few years now.  He hasn't done that, all he's done is given up on away games and focused on home games and when you do that...you need to win your home games and if you don't then there's a problem.

The signing Ross moriarty will not improve the front 5, hibbard may do but you can't tell me with Elliot Dee's emergence that he's a good investment, they'll probably be paying him good money to be a bench player.  That money could have been invested in a second row or a fly half (Henson won't be there long I don't think).

I want the Dragons to do well but putting all hopes of being a better side next season with no visible improvement in this season is dangerous for Jackman and the WRU, if they fail what comes then?

Thanks for the insight, don't know about the other plebs around here but I for one really welcome the high falutin' insight of our Cardiff neighbours. No one states the bleeding obvious quite like you.

[LordDowlais]

So Cuthbert is leaving Cardiff at the end of the season, chatter is he is going to be playing his rugby about 10 miles east of Cardiff next season.

[Stone Motif]

It's unfair to say there's been no improvement this season. We were definitely playing a wider ball-in-hand game in the opening games, and our forwards looked comfortable playing it. Until fairly recently we'd won more scrum penalties than any other side in the league (probably not any more though) and we were scoring tries fairly frequently from driving mauls, which is a huge turnaround from previous seasons. But for various reasons, there's been a slide in the last month or so, which unfortunately has coincided with the derby games on which we're usually judged.

Speaking of derby games, that was one of the worst things about the Scarlets game - it should have been a big deal, but there was no sense of that at Parc y Scarlets. It was a gimme for them.

What the think tank at Gwlad/Cardiff RFC conveniently fail to recognise is that Jackman has the same Poopie gaggle players as his predecessor, the majority of which aren't pro standard. Plus a 35 year old Gav. When he few pro standard players are missing, we play to the level of the players available, which is a very low ceiling.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

But we had improved. Not massively, and not in terms of matches won, but our pack was definitely on the up. Then we got injuries, and now our pack is on the down / backwards at a rate of knots.

[Stone Motif]

.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

We've missed Harris too, he's always looking for the ball, and he actually runs onto it.

[Stone Motif]

But we had improved. Not massively, and not in terms of matches won, but our pack was definitely on the up. Then we got injuries, and now our pack is on the down / backwards at a rate of knots.

Don't agree. How good we are is relative to the players we had available. Scrums/Mauls have been better since Ceri Jones came on board.

[RiscaGame]

We've missed Harris too, he's always looking for the ball, and he actually runs onto it.

Yes, he is comfortable playing first receiver for a prop.

I look forward to Scarlets "home" game at the end of the season, particularly if both teams are at or near full strength. Then we can measure where we are. Shame it is on the PS and not Rodney Parade or even Fortress Eugene mind, but we can't have everything.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I wasn't saying our pack's improvement is down to Jackman coming in, more that Ceri Jones's work has really borne fruit this season. We're probably fitter this season though.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Here we go:

FRONT ROW:

Rhys Buckley – Spine Integrating back into elements of training and will return to the field in 3-4 weeks.

Leon Brown – Concussion Continues his rehabilitation and integration into various parts of training.

Chris Coleman – Shoulder Continuing his rehabilitation from surgery and is expected back in April 2018.

Elliot Dee – Concussion Expected to complete his graded return to play this week and be available for selection.

Gerard Ellis – Whiplash Suffered this injury last week and waiting to see his response to treatment to guide a return to sport.

Brok Harris – Shoulder Recovering from surgery and expected back in May 2018.

Dan Suter – Achilles Currently integrating back into elements of training and will return to the field in 3-4 weeks.

LOCK:

Scott Andrews – Shoulder Requires some strength testing to clarify a return to sport, but expected to return in 3-4 weeks.

Matthew Screech – Hamstring Currently recovering from surgery and is expected back in May 2018.

James Sheekey – Shoulder Suffered this injury against Ospreys and the medical team are waiting to see his response to treatment, to guide a return to sport.

Ashley Sweet – Spine Continuing his rehabilitation from surgery and is expected to return in April 2018.

Henri Williams – Knee Continues a managed return to sport, which sees planned game time balanced with rehabilitation.

BACK-ROW:

Nic Cudd - Knee Currently rehabilitating his knee injury which will see him out of action until May 2018.

Lewis Evans – Pectoral Continues his rehabilitation from surgery and will return to team training in the next 2-3 weeks.

Ollie Griffiths – Ankle Continues his rehabilitation from surgery and will start running progressions in the next 2-3 weeks.

Harri Keddie – Shoulder Has some final strength testing to clarify a return to sport, but he is expected to return in 2-3 weeks.

James Thomas – Knee Continues his rehabilitation from surgery and is expected to return in March 2018.

Max Williams - Shoulder Has some strength testing to clarify a return to sport, but is expected to return in February 2018.

HALF-BACKS:

Tavis Knoyle - Knee & Wrist Rehabilitating his knee injury which will see him out of action until May 2018. He also has a review of an old wrist injury with a specialist on Monday to determine the need for surgery.

Arwel Robson – Ankle Sustained this injury against Scarlets on Friday night and is due to be scanned today to determine the extent of the injury.

CENTRE:

Adam Hughes – Concussion Continues his rehabilitation from this recurrent injury.

Tyler Morgan – Ankle Will complete his rehabilitation with the Welsh medical team on Monday.

Calvin Wellington – Hamstring Integrating back into elements of training and will return to the field in 3-4 weeks.

BACK-THREE:

Hallam Amos – Ankle Will complete his rehabilitation with the Welsh medical team on Monday.

George Gasson – Ankle Continues his rehabilitation from surgery and will start running progressions in the next 2-3 weeks.

Zane Kirchner – Shoulder Has some final strength testing to clarify a return to sport, but is expected to return in February 2018.

http://www.dragonsrugby.wales/News/Article/51001

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Say what you like about spin and PR and false dawns and hot air, but any side would suffer with that number of players out, not least a side that finished 13th in a league of 14 last season.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

So Cuthbert is leaving Cardiff at the end of the season, chatter is he is going to be playing his rugby about 10 miles east of Cardiff next season.

Don't start!

[mikey_dragon]

Say what you like about spin and PR and false dawns and hot air, but any side would suffer with that number of players out, not least a side that finished 13th in a league of 14 last season.

Yeah that about sums it up. It's surprising that some people don't realise it. I still I think it's a good idea to bring in the '12 new players' and keep most of what we have. At least what we have (that's mostly injured) can win in the challenge cup.

[mikey_dragon]

So Cuthbert is leaving Cardiff at the end of the season, chatter is he is going to be playing his rugby about 10 miles east of Cardiff next season.

Don't start!

Cuthbert and North on each wing, I like it... so long as they stay with us and not team Wales for which they aren't good enough yet. Now all we need is Halfpenny.

[mikey_dragon]

So we've signed Huw Taylor for next season, from Worcester. I have no idea why but we won't be moving up if we're signing people like him and Bevington.

[RiscaGame]

Worcester fans and others seem pretty complimentary about him.

That injury list is bad. Good of the Dragons to do one finally though. It is good to have an update of when we might see our players back and it will make people more sympathetic to our current plight.

Interestingly, they haven’t named Nick Macleod. I haven’t seen anything to say he had retired or left.

[mikey_dragon]

Now I get the feeling we'll let him (McLeod) go, so we still need Quade Cooper to sign for us...

As for Taylor, well I'm sure he's decent although he didn't feature in the squad against Bath which makes me wonder is he struggling to get into the first team , I just don't think he's that tight 5 player that we need. Fair enough if BJ sees him as a back-up 6 as that might actually work.

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