Dragons Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

[munkian]

First topic message reminder :

Their backs. Wow.

Jackman really can't settle on a hooker mind.

Just saw Simon Thomas tweet Leon Brown has suffered a second concussion. If that's so, I wonder if that means the first wasn't really dealt with properly?

Are you sure ? I've read it that he suffered a concussion so he hasn't been picked INCASE he suffers another.

[Stone Motif]

Cheers Risca, i think that’s looking a bit stronger than we’ve got and we have some impact on the bench (some!).

I think the back line needs some more cutting edge in the centres. Just not sure Dixon and Morgan are up to it. I always feel very underwhelmed by their performances. We need a more elusive inside centre than one in the Dixon mould, I feel. Maybe Henson then, if he’s saying he wasn’t a to play 12? But he’s starting to look a little old as tired now! But a ball playing IC might help bring Morgan into the game a bit more.

Dixon is in because our pack get pistol whipped by all and sundry. He's a decent ball player, but lacks agility something chronic. Tyler could be a rolls royce of a centre but I fear he's too snappy for pro rugby. In any case, your half backs dictate who is brought into the game. The problem with the centres is there.

[Stone Motif]

Its a worrying amount of looseheads going

Whilst all Poopie, you are supposed to have at least one on the pitch. Full back will be an abortion next season as well when Amos is with Wales: straight shoot out between the People's 10 Zane Kirchner and the Turkish Matthew Morgan.

[Stone Motif]

Jackman's going to have a serious amount of egg on his face if we don't improve a bit and at least become more competitive next season.  2 wins this year is beyond shocking.  Even last year which was another poor season we had quite a few more losing bonus points, if memory serves.  I looked it up for this year and we only have a few LBPs, meaning generally we've been soundly beaten.  Next season we've got to be targeting winning half our games, surely?

He already has. A totally wasted round of recruitment bar scrum half and hooker.

[Stone Motif]

I just think it's embarrassing frankly that signing Premiership players is the height of our ambition.

Its not the height though is it ? Its the start.

We don't have money so we need to start winning to attract bigger players.

Nonsense sorry we've let nearly a match day squad go and signed 500 wingers, all of whom are Poopie than the ones we already had.

[Stone Motif]

*More signings*

We’ve just announced the signings of Jacob Botica and Tiaan Loots from RGC. Christ, that’ll get the other regions frothing at the mouth again.

Well, well.

And I am always being told that the Welsh Premiership is not good enough to get players for regional rugby.

The only thing more certain than Botica and Loots turning out to be garbage signings at this level is that Bowellais'd turn up to write this mangled bit of victim-hood. Next on the 606 stupid post bingo board to Mikey dragon telling us he 'rates' a player he's heard of but doesn't rate a player he hasn't heard of.

[Stone Motif]

Stalwart_Price_angered_by_bitter_end_to_Dragons_service
Pathetic by the Dragons if true

[Guest]

Stalwart_Price_angered_by_bitter_end_to_Dragons_service
Pathetic by the Dragons if true

Yeah, read that and thought it was shoddy treatment (the flowers thing).

On a similar note, it amazes me that a player can be deemed to be so poor by the Dragons that he can't get more than 1 or 2 games in a season and vastly inexperienced players are played ahead of them (what Phil Price complains of; Kirchner at 10 over AOB is another example). And yet a side at the top end of the league, doing well in Europe, not only takes that player on trial but is so impressed that they offer him a 2 year contract. I fully get that coaches have in mind what they're looking for but it seems to happen a lot at the Dragons. Aled Brew is another one - Kingsley thought he was gash and he ended up playing in the Welsh Prem, yet a season or two later he's tearing it up in the English top flight for Bath, playing regularly and scoring tries. It just seems that something is rotten at RP as players come to us and just decline or their confidence/aspirations go and their heads go. Must be the coaching/environment.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Jackman kept saying at the start of the season that it was a clean slate, no preconceptions, everyone would get a chance to prove themselves etc. Well so much for that. And as you say, if they genuinely thought after a couple of outings that they had better players available, how come the Scarlets want him?

[Stone Motif]

Jackman kept saying at the start of the season that it was a clean slate, no preconceptions, everyone would get a chance to prove themselves etc. Well so much for that. And as you say, if they genuinely thought after a couple of outings that they had better players available, how come the Scarlets want him?

And, as the point has been repeatedly made in respect of any number of the surplus 19, what does Bevington offer that Phil Price doesn't

[Guest]

Yep, swapping like for like is not the answer.  The only hope is that Bevington does at the Dragons what Phil Price has done at the Scarlets - i.e. doing better than expectations.

But......

It probably has a lot to do with the players around them (Edit: that's stating the obvious I suppose).  Phil Price slotting into a strong pack and impressing is a lot easier than Bevington/Mitchell/Hobbs/Nicky Thomas being asked to shore up a woeful pack at the Dragons, and then being in the spotlight for all scrummaging woes.  It's a lonely place being a prop at the Dragons!  But at the Scarlets (or other top teams) - I reckon I could come on in the 2nd half as LH after Rob Evans has softened up the opposition, with Ken to the side of me, Samson on the other side, Ball and Beirne behind me.  And I'm only about 12.5 stone wet!  Price has it easy!

[RiscaGame]

The thing with Price is, you can maybe say playing the likes of Reynolds over him is fair as you’re looking to the future or trialling a youngster. What would be more galling is rating a journeyman hooker turned prop over him.

I did read something last week about our new hooker we’ve signed, but didn’t register it as a new player. Has the same sort of description that ellis arrived with, so perhaps it’s another loosehead again (in effect).

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Faletau staying at Bath.

[mikey_dragon]

Where do folk get the idea that Phil Price has become amazing overnight? He’s like fourth choice at Scarlets. Not a bad bit of business if you can get a player with his experience for cheap and have him as your fourth LH rather than a prem player.

[mikey_dragon]

Faletau staying at Bath.

Long term too. I can’t see Bath winning anything so can’t agree with his optimism. We should try and steal Sam Moore from Sale.

[mikey_dragon]

*More signings*

We’ve just announced the signings of Jacob Botica and Tiaan Loots from RGC. Christ, that’ll get the other regions frothing at the mouth again.

Well, well.

And I am always being told that the Welsh Premiership is not good enough to get players for regional rugby.

The only thing more certain than Botica and Loots turning out to be garbage signings at this level is that Bowellais'd turn up to write this mangled bit of victim-hood. Next on the 606 stupid post bingo board to Mikey dragon telling us he 'rates' a player he's heard of but doesn't rate a player he hasn't heard of.

Who?

[Cardiff Dave]

Don't tell him Pike!

[Guest]

*More signings*

We’ve just announced the signings of Jacob Botica and Tiaan Loots from RGC. Christ, that’ll get the other regions frothing at the mouth again.

Well, well.

And I am always being told that the Welsh Premiership is not good enough to get players for regional rugby.

The only thing more certain than Botica and Loots turning out to be garbage signings at this level is that Bowellais'd turn up to write this mangled bit of victim-hood. Next on the 606 stupid post bingo board to Mikey dragon telling us he 'rates' a player he's heard of but doesn't rate a player he hasn't heard of.

Who?

Grobler and Nansen, at a guess?

[Guest]

Where do folk get the idea that Phil Price has become amazing overnight? He’s like fourth choice at Scarlets. Not a bad bit of business if you can get a player with his experience for cheap and have him as your fourth LH rather than a prem player.

Nicely misinterpreted there, Michael.

[mikey_dragon]

*More signings*

We’ve just announced the signings of Jacob Botica and Tiaan Loots from RGC. Christ, that’ll get the other regions frothing at the mouth again.

Well, well.

And I am always being told that the Welsh Premiership is not good enough to get players for regional rugby.

The only thing more certain than Botica and Loots turning out to be garbage signings at this level is that Bowellais'd turn up to write this mangled bit of victim-hood. Next on the 606 stupid post bingo board to Mikey dragon telling us he 'rates' a player he's heard of but doesn't rate a player he hasn't heard of.

Who?

Grobler and Nansen, at a guess?

Well stone brains has it ass backwards then, as I've heard of Grobler and rate him. Hadn't heard of Nansen but never said I didn't rate him, just insinuated that I wasn't sold on him (like most of our signings).

[mikey_dragon]

Where do folk get the idea that Phil Price has become amazing overnight? He’s like fourth choice at Scarlets. Not a bad bit of business if you can get a player with his experience for cheap and have him as your fourth LH rather than a prem player.

Nicely misinterpreted there, Michael.

I embellished a little .

[mikey_dragon]

Nansen confirmed, on a two year deal. Anyone else notice how most/all our new signings are here for two years? I'm not sure that's enough time for a 'transformation' and if that is the case then none of them will re-sign.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Are contracts usually longer than that? I can't say I pay attention to that kind of thing.

[munkian]

Are contracts usually longer than that? I can't say I pay attention to that kind of thing.

There's nothing unusual about a two year contract. Hes been on the glue again.

[VinceWLB]

I doubt many if any team would offer someone of unproven quality like Nansen more than a couple of years.

[munkian]

I doubt many if any team would offer someone of unproven quality like Nansen more than a couple of years.

Exactly, it would have been worrying if it was on a year or three years.

[RiscaGame]

Nah, two year contracts are very standard for us. That’s why I found it quite funny when Dorian got a longer term one off his old man

I know Jackman rates Nansen very highly, even without the quotes from yesterday. I’m led to believe he hasn’t even been made available to our Premiership teams, whereas others have.

[Stone Motif]

Nah, two year contracts are very standard for us. That’s why I found it quite funny when Dorian got a longer term one off his old man

I know Jackman rates Nansen very highly, even without the quotes from yesterday. I’m led to believe he hasn’t even been made available to our Premiership teams, whereas others have.

They are standard for us, but the more cynically minded might note that our entire squad will be out of contract around about the time the three years to turn it around period runs out...

[RiscaGame]

Well yes, that has crossed my mind. I’m not sure I could handle another reset though, or another first season free pass.

[Guest]

I think the suggestion is more bleak than that, Risca. At the end of the 3 years we could see the end of the Dragons altogether, and an end of rugby at RP if the WRU decide their experiment doesn’t work. They can ‘move’ their experiment to a different area, should they wish, and make a tidy profit in selling RP as they got it for a cheap price as a rugby ground (rather than the bigger bucks it would attract as a housing development site).

But we knew this, even though it is still worrying. That was the gamble. Rugby for at least 3 more years vs no rugby at all (at RP) beyond 2017.

[munkian]

We'll be fine

[Stone Motif]

I think the suggestion is more bleak than that, Risca. At the end of the 3 years we could see the end of the Dragons altogether, and an end of rugby at RP if the WRU decide their experiment doesn’t work. They can ‘move’ their experiment to a different area, should they wish, and make a tidy profit in selling RP as they got it for a cheap price as a rugby ground (rather than the bigger bucks it would attract as a housing development site).

But we knew this, even though it is still worrying. That was the gamble. Rugby for at least 3 more years vs no rugby at all (at RP) beyond 2017.

It would need a massive climb down from the WRU though - a public admission that even they can't make regional rugby work - and the other mitigating factor is I don't think that land is worth as much as many think as housing.

[RiscaGame]

They’re making too much of the clubs in Gwent for them to can us. That is what I think of it anyway. Moving a team or starting one elsewhere won’t make a difference. It would just have to play catch up still, if Jackman’s three year masterplan hasn’t worked. If his masterplan didn’t, they’d be partly to blame anyway. Gatland lumbered us with him

[Guest]

Fingers crossed!

[Guest]

I think the suggestion is more bleak than that, Risca. At the end of the 3 years we could see the end of the Dragons altogether, and an end of rugby at RP if the WRU decide their experiment doesn’t work. They can ‘move’ their experiment to a different area, should they wish, and make a tidy profit in selling RP as they got it for a cheap price as a rugby ground (rather than the bigger bucks it would attract as a housing development site).

But we knew this, even though it is still worrying. That was the gamble. Rugby for at least 3 more years vs no rugby at all (at RP) beyond 2017.

It would need a massive climb down from the WRU though - a public admission that even they can't make regional rugby work - and the other mitigating factor is I don't think that land is worth as much as many think as housing.

This is true. They’d need to admit failure, which might not be palatable to the WRU. Could be a saving factor!

In terms of the land, that could be the case too. However, I remember something before the ‘intervention’ and the buyout that the land was valued differently as a sporting concern with a stadium on it (not sure if I’m using the correct lingo here!) than as a plot of land for building houses on. Not sure why, or even if it’s true, but remember something about it previously.

[Stone Motif]

The value as a stadium especially with no tenant is not going to be much. Housing you'd need consent, probably land remediation, and definitely significant infrastructure investment to make it work - I know the Taylor wimpey development along the bank wasn't that profitable hence the high density and massing of the dwellings to cram in the units. Might change with the tolls dropping but you won't get away with too much massing as you start to bang up against the existing residential around the ground. Also big assumption the city council would accept it, they've published a precis of their city centre master plan that identifies sport and leisure as the economic future for that side of the river.

[mikey_dragon]

Are contracts usually longer than that? I can't say I pay attention to that kind of thing.

There's nothing unusual about a two year contract. Hes been on the glue again.

http://www.the42.ie/rhys-webb-toulon-3640048-Oct2017/

Wish someone would offer you a long-term contract to Calais.

[mikey_dragon]

I think the suggestion is more bleak than that, Risca. At the end of the 3 years we could see the end of the Dragons altogether, and an end of rugby at RP if the WRU decide their experiment doesn’t work. They can ‘move’ their experiment to a different area, should they wish, and make a tidy profit in selling RP as they got it for a cheap price as a rugby ground (rather than the bigger bucks it would attract as a housing development site).

But we knew this, even though it is still worrying. That was the gamble. Rugby for at least 3 more years vs no rugby at all (at RP) beyond 2017.

WRU upping sticks and moving to Merthyr I heard. Merthyr/Ponty region based in Merthyr.

[Guest]

I think the suggestion is more bleak than that, Risca. At the end of the 3 years we could see the end of the Dragons altogether, and an end of rugby at RP if the WRU decide their experiment doesn’t work. They can ‘move’ their experiment to a different area, should they wish, and make a tidy profit in selling RP as they got it for a cheap price as a rugby ground (rather than the bigger bucks it would attract as a housing development site).

But we knew this, even though it is still worrying. That was the gamble. Rugby for at least 3 more years vs no rugby at all (at RP) beyond 2017.

WRU upping sticks and moving to Merthyr I heard. Merthyr/Ponty region based in Merthyr.

A joke, I hope?!

[munkian]

Youth is no excuse for Dragons' woes, as coaches we underperformed - Connor

[Guest]

Have we announced a new backs coach yet? Can’t for the life of me remember!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Not that I've heard.

[munkian]

Same here, hopefully its not another of his mates.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It's an important appointment, so it's good that they're taking their time. Either that or everyone they've approached so far has turned them down.  

[munkian]

We have player/coach SuperGav shewerley ?

[mikey_dragon]

I think the suggestion is more bleak than that, Risca. At the end of the 3 years we could see the end of the Dragons altogether, and an end of rugby at RP if the WRU decide their experiment doesn’t work. They can ‘move’ their experiment to a different area, should they wish, and make a tidy profit in selling RP as they got it for a cheap price as a rugby ground (rather than the bigger bucks it would attract as a housing development site).

But we knew this, even though it is still worrying. That was the gamble. Rugby for at least 3 more years vs no rugby at all (at RP) beyond 2017.

WRU upping sticks and moving to Merthyr I heard. Merthyr/Ponty region based in Merthyr.

A joke, I hope?!

Definitely a joke.

[Brendan]

Knowing the struggles Dragons are having I don't think that the WRU would want to start from scratch and be where the dragons are now in 10 years.

While the jury is out on Jackman the squad for next year will be a lot better than this year and the young guys will be a year older. I am not expecting Dragons to make the playoffs but would expect them to be hard to beat home or away. As Connacht and Edinburgh have shown if you can get all your games close it doesn't take much the next season to win a lot of those games.

If worse comes to the worse the WRU could sell it to the SRU as they need somewhere to put all their left over players.

[Stone Motif]

Knowing the struggles Dragons are having I don't think that the WRU would want to start from scratch and be where the dragons are now in 10 years.

While the jury is out on Jackman the squad for next year will be a lot better than this year and the young guys will be a year older.  I am not expecting Dragons to make the playoffs but would expect them to be hard to beat home or away.  As Connacht and Edinburgh have shown if you can get all your games close it doesn't take much the next season to win a lot of those games.

If worse comes to the worse the WRU could sell it to the SRU as they need somewhere to put all their left over players.

I'd love to hear exactly where and why our squad is 'a lot better than this year'?

[Stone Motif]

See a bunch of the released 19 are signing for Bargoed. In a way, if the percentage of this lot that sign for better clubs stays low, kinda vindicates Jackman's assessment of them, if not the way he handled it. So far only Price to Scarlets confirmed and Meyer to Blues rumoured?

[RiscaGame]

Yeah, saw that. This seems to be a bit of a trend at the minute though, clubs signing pro players. Be some clubs a bit worried if they don’t survive the drop once the ringfencing ends. It sounds like the Premiership might be even more interesting next season anyway.

Can’t pretend to be a big fan of Buckley really though. Plus when they’re signing the likes of big bad Bryce Morgan too, it’s not that good a standard

[Stone Motif]

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/16227782.O_Brien_earns_Scarlets_move_after_Dragons_exit/

We can add AoB to the official list of players good enough to play for much better teams but not good enough for Banned Snackman. Shame, good player.

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