England Six Nations Thread

[Cumbrian]

First topic message reminder :

Squad (From RFU Website):

Backs

Full backs
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Nathan Earle (Saracens) *
Harry Mallinder (Northampton Saints) *
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)

Inside backs
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Alex Lozowski (Saracens)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins) * **
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Forwards

Back five
Gary Graham (Newcastle Falcons) *
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby) *
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)

Front row
Lewis Boyce (Harlequins) *
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby) *
Jamie George (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs) *
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)

Players unavailable
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
Piers Francis (Northampton Saints)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Nathan Hughes (Wasps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby)
Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby)
Will Spencer (Worcester Warriors)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)

Uncapped *
Apprentice player **

Fixtures:

*All kick-off times in GMT.


Italy v England
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Sunday 4th February 2018
Kick Off: 3:00pm

England v Wales
Twickenham Stadium, London
Saturday 10th February 2018
Kick Off: 4:45pm

Scotland v England
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Saturday 24th February 2018
Kick Off: 4:45pm

France v England
Stade de France, Paris
Saturday 10th March 2018
Kick Off: 4:45pm

England v Ireland
Twickenham Stadium, London
Saturday 17th March 2018
Kick Off: 2:45pm

Officialdom:

Italy v England

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Nic Berry (Australia)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

England v Wales

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 1: Mathieu Reynal (France)
Assistant 2: Nic Berry (Australia)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

Scotland v England

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

France v England

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant 1: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 2: Marius van der Westhuizen (South Africa)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

England v Ireland

Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 1: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant 2: Marius van der Westhuizen (South Africa)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

[Geordie]

I'd say Genge wins more pens than he concedes. He just needs to learn to reign it in a little as he seems a bit all or nothing at the set piece. He's just as devastating ball in hand but hasn't got the silky skills Mako has.

It'll be interesting to see what happens at loosehead over the summer should all the injured players return. Marler is solid but his discipline is terrible. Obano is a monster but fades very quickly and won't last much past 50 at club level. Genge is increasingly good at the scrum and akin to another 8 ball in hand but plays very close to the edge and can concede penalties. Mullan is pretty much finished internationally. Mako needs to sort his set piece out but is incredible in the loose.

There's going to be changes before the RWC. Primed for a surprise.

Neither could Billy V, but they got his fitness right up. Im sure Bath are working on Obano's

[SecretFly]

I'm just glad Obamo moved on after his defeat a year ago. I thought he took it a little too badly for a while there - brooded and sulked a bit.

[propdavid_london]

I think it is ok Lawes saying I am not playing particularly well.  I don't think it is so clever Mako bringing attention to the fact that even he agrees his scrummaging is not that good.  If I was the referee in the Italy game, I would put him under more scrutiny at scrum time and would probably be more likely to ping him when the first scrum goes down his side.

Humility is welcome, but not at the expense of giving your opponent an advantage.  It is similar with Hartley - he has a reputation as a 'bad boy' so if something happens where he is in the vicinity then people jump on the Hartley thug bandwagon.

Maybe that is all part of the EJ bandwagon.   Misdirection, the England camp aren't particularly worried about the LH side - but want to keep the referee focused there as they are more concerned about TH side.  Drawing attention away from any inexperience that might be exploited on that side.  

Dan Cole?

Not much backup after Cole.
And Cole hasn't been in sterling form!

[ChequeredJersey]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jan/23/mike-brown-rugby-world-cup-2019-england

I assume you mean brown beshocked?

Brown who is one of the few players we KNOW identified and admitted his own weaknesses and then went and try to neutralise them, not just chatting about them in an interview?


It's good that people judge people by what they say in probably highly edited and directed interviews answering the questions put ahead of them, and not by their actions!

[beshocked]

What current weaknesses has Brown tried to neutralise or address?

Brown isn't playing as well as he was in the past.

Perhaps I am harsh on certain players but when do you make the change?

[ChequeredJersey]

He's the player we know worked explicitly first on his high ball game (to become the best at it) and then at his pace, in his own time

He also had his game style completely changed for England a couple of seasons ago to pass more and address the "can't pass/wastes opportunities" issues, but it made him far less effective. I'm not surprised that he's taking the ball on again and looking better again, and suspect he's been asked to.

He has also created a lot more tries in the last year with timed passes than anyone will ever give him credit for...

Actions mean something. Words are wind

[ChequeredJersey]

That aside, I agree it's time to phase someone in to replace or at least deputise for Brown, but Eddie's hands are tied - his best option is injured

[king_carlos]

Not knocking Genge at all, Sam. I'm a massive fan of him and I think he will become an England starter in due course. I'd put him on par with Mako as a scrummager currently, behind Marler. Agreed he wins more penalties than he concedes at scrum time.

I just feel that the Mako can't scrummage shtick gets exaggerated due to him being so good in other areas.

As for changes after the RWC, it's easy to forget that Marler and Mako are only 27. They've been around so long that some fans forget how young they still are. I think a few fans have grown so accustomed to the luxury of them being available that it's also overlooked how good they are.

I appreciate that, but what I mean, is...he isn't going to become a ridiculously destructive scrummager like a Julian White or someone. And that's not his game so its not expected.

Scrummagers like White have never come around often to be fair. Unfortunately the early retirement of Corbisiero may well have robbed us of a rare prop who is that destructive at set-piece.

[ChequeredJersey]

That aside, I agree it's time to phase someone in to replace or at least deputise for Brown, but Eddie's hands are tied - his best option is injured

And in the AP at the moment, fullbacks look like this:

Exeter: Turner, an Aussie
Sarries: Goode who is a tried and tested step down and not much younger than Brown, or Williams, who is Welsh
Wasps: Le Roux, who is SA
Gloucester: Woodward who may come into the mix, though will garner criticism for the nation of his birth
Bath: Watson, a winger who is established as one of our first choice wingers, excels there and has been tried and looked shaky at int level at FB
Newcastle: Hammersley who doesn't look ready and Tait who doesn't look int class
Sale: Haley who has lost his starting place to O'Connor, an Australian or McGuigan, a Scot
Leicester: Tait, shaky form and same age as Brown, or Veanu, a Tongan
Saints: Foden, past it, Tuala, a Samoan, Mallinder who has looked highly exposed at FB recently
Worcester: forgotten man Pennell
Irish: Tonks, a Scot or McLean, who plays for Italy

[No 7&1/2]

Do you feel that the coaches are ignoring brown or do you now accept that they will be beshocked? I certainly don't have an issue with you saying brown hartley etc should nt br picked ahead of george. It's the hyperbole of them getting a free ride not wanting to improve etc.

[ChequeredJersey]

I suppose the alternatives from overseas would be Armitage or Abs, both with their flaws, both against selection policy

[lostinwales]

I suppose the alternatives from overseas would be Armitage or Abs, both with their flaws, both against selection policy

And both in the past it or nearly past it category.

We could add in the 'multipurpose who could play at 15' category, which means Daly or Loz right now, but might include the likes of Malin in a year or two.

[beshocked]

He's the player we know worked explicitly first on his high ball game (to become the best at it) and then at his pace, in his own time

He also had his game style completely changed for England a couple of seasons ago to pass more and address the "can't pass/wastes opportunities" issues, but it made him far less effective. I'm not surprised that he's taking the ball on again and looking better again, and suspect he's been asked to.

He has also created a lot more tries in the last year with timed passes than anyone will ever give him credit for...

Actions mean something. Words are wind

Which tries? To be fair to Brown his passing might have been better in the AIs but it was truly laughable in the 6 nations. I remember one passage of play in particular where the forwards were passing the ball with fluency and Brown just greedily held onto it. I think vs Italy, though might have been Scotland.


We'll see what happens in the 6 nations.

[ChequeredJersey]

Where are England touring this summer?

[ChequeredJersey]

I see the answer is SA

[kingelderfield]

Take the Saxons and rest the 1st team. Otherwise players will be playing with very little rest until the end of season 19/20.......Thankfully the Haskell Marker brains trust saved Wasps from from the latter stages of Europe meaning there will some rest weekends after the 6N

[Geordie]

For me personally I still see Daly as the best option.

Pace, high skills and a missile of a boot!

[ChequeredJersey]

For me personally I still see Daly as the best option.

Pace, high skills and a missile of a boot!

I agree. I’d have Brown focus on coaching him on positioning and aerial defence, and Watson, Nowell and the other young guns too (they may already be doing this with Brown, who knows)

I think Earle might have fullback potential

[ChequeredJersey]

Marcus Smith is having one on one tackling and defence training with Jamie Roberts at Quins

[ChequeredJersey]

Take the Saxons and rest the 1st team. Otherwise players will be playing with very little rest until the end of season 19/20.......Thankfully the Haskell Marker brains trust saved Wasps from from the latter stages of Europe meaning there will some rest weekends after the 6N

Not quite Saxons but agree we want a balance between first choice and fringe/upcoming players, and not to tire those who have played a lot in the last 12 months

[kingelderfield]

FB options;
Watson
Daly
Slade
Nowell
Lozowski

So plenty of options, if only the buggers could stay fit.

[ChequeredJersey]

Hmmm. I’m not sure that Slade has the game to be an Int FB

I’m not sure but less unsure that Loz and Watson do either

[doctor_grey]

I think we draft May in to solve our back row problems. Just watching him try to bind on the scrum will have the other teams laughing so hard England will score tries by the dozen.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

He is not the only one, Billy V was very rusty in his first game back, kept trying to bind between the 2nd rows legs like a lock. They didn't appear too happy for some reason.

[doctor_grey]

He is not the only one, Billy V was very rusty in his first game back, kept trying to bind between the 2nd rows legs like a lock. They didn't appear too happy for some reason.

Can't imagine why.........

[Rugby Fan]

..Wasps: Le Roux, who is SA

For the sake of completeness, you could add Cipriani as a full back option. He's hardly played there for Wasps but Lancaster said he was willing to see him also as full back cover when considering him for the World Cup squad. I don't think Lancaster ever did more than pay lip service to the idea of including Cipriani. It was probbaly a waste of everyone's time having him at the training camp.

Interested to see Martin Johnson's observations on how England are lining up. He notes that the backs are looking more experienced than teh forwards, which can't often be true of an England side. I don't think he means it as a compliment.

Are England on course to win the World Cup?

If everyone stays fit, they'll be in a decent place. It's a big 'if', though, because I think Eddie Jones would expect to have a little bit more depth and there's not a lot of rugby left between now and the World Cup. With injuries, there will be a few question marks. The front-five's pretty good but it would be great for another tighthead to nail down that position alongside Dan Cole. He's been an absolute rock for England for eight years. You'd like to have four world class tight-head props but you very rarely do.

Who's the next scrum-half? There's only Ben Youngs and Danny Care in the squad and they've been in there for eight years. There's not much experience on the flanks after James Haskell and Chris Robshaw. Without Nathan Hughes and Billy Vunipola, someone's got to play No 8. Is it Zach Mercer? Is it Sam Simmonds? You always expect England to have an experienced, grizzly forward pack but the backs are more experienced than the forwards. Let's hope England come through with three, four or five players who are up to it during the Six Nations. It's a good challenge.

Is Dylan Hartley's time up as skipper?

Captaincy isn't an issue for England because there are plenty of leaders in the squad. For me, Chris Robshaw has been there and done it and he would be more than capable of stepping up. There are also guys like George Kruis, Maro Itoje, Joe Launchbury, Owen Farrell, George Ford, Mike Brown, Youngs and Care who all contribute as leaders. Dylan or Jamie George? You could start either of them. Eddie's backed Dylan and it's hard to drop a guy when you're winning.

How do they compare to the 2003 heroes?  

We had far more depth in experience in 2003. We pretty much had two genuine packs that you start play in the Six Nations. Jason Leonard sat on the bench in the World Cup final with 100-odd caps. Danny Grewcock, Martin Corry, Lewis Moody, Joe Worsley, Simon Shaw, Julian White, Leonard, Dorian West, Graham Rowntree, Mark Regan – those guys weren't even in the forward pack.

Throw in Andy Gomarsall, Kyran Bracken, Austin Healey, Paul Grayson, Dan Lugar, Iain Balshaw and you've got British Lions backs not making the team. That was an exceptional period. If you look at the England current squad, pretty much a quarter of the squad are new caps. They need some young guys to come in and knock off the older guys.

Who are their biggest Six Nations rivals?  

Every year it seems to be getting closer and closer. Ireland are my favourites because they've got the healthiest squad and a good blend of experience.

The provincial game in Ireland has really worked for them in the last 10 plus years. The English club game and international game has obvious conflicts and that takes its toll on the players. Even going back to my day as a professional, you'd go on tour when your club would have liked you not to go on tour.

As a player, you've got to have full commitment to both. It's tricky. Back to competition, Scotland could also have a bit of a say.

What advice would you give to the players?

You can't be red alert 24/7. You've got to be able to just lie down after training and switch off. It's such an intense time when you're in camp and you have to be able to handle that; the media, the amount of information, the enormity of games, the spotlight. When I played, you'd be in camp for three days and then go home. Now you're in there for around eight weeks and it's intense. You're stuck in a hotel and it's intense. You've got to handle that workload mentally and physically. If you can't handle it mentally, you'll struggle to handle it physically.

[TightHEAD]

Can we delay the 6 nations by another month to try and get some first team players back in form.

[cascough]

I think it is ok Lawes saying I am not playing particularly well.  I don't think it is so clever Mako bringing attention to the fact that even he agrees his scrummaging is not that good.  If I was the referee in the Italy game, I would put him under more scrutiny at scrum time and would probably be more likely to ping him when the first scrum goes down his side.

Humility is welcome, but not at the expense of giving your opponent an advantage.  It is similar with Hartley - he has a reputation as a 'bad boy' so if something happens where he is in the vicinity then people jump on the Hartley thug bandwagon.

Maybe that is all part of the EJ bandwagon.   Misdirection, the England camp aren't particularly worried about the LH side - but want to keep the referee focused there as they are more concerned about TH side.  Drawing attention away from any inexperience that might be exploited on that side.  

Dan Cole?

Not much backup after Cole.  
And Cole hasn't been in sterling form!

Cole and Williams are more experienced than Vunipola and 2 uncapped players. There is more inexperience to be exploited on the LH side.

[Poorfour]

Interesting article from
Tom Fordyce on the Beeb.

"No-one looks comfortable to me," says Maro Itoje, another of the favoured players. "Those who appear on the team-sheet more often than not - if you speak to them you'll find that they don't feel comfortable.

"Eddie keeps everyone on their toes. It doesn't matter how old you are, how many caps you have or how few caps you have. Everyone is held accountable."

Oh look. Eddie is making everyone accountable for their performance and everyone has things to work on. Even if they haven't publicly spoken about them in a recent press conference. I would never have expected that.

[ChequeredJersey]

Interesting article from
Tom Fordyce on the Beeb.

"No-one looks comfortable to me," says Maro Itoje, another of the favoured players. "Those who appear on the team-sheet more often than not - if you speak to them you'll find that they don't feel comfortable.

"Eddie keeps everyone on their toes. It doesn't matter how old you are, how many caps you have or how few caps you have. Everyone is held accountable."

Oh look. Eddie is making everyone accountable for their performance and everyone has things to work on. Even if they haven't publicly spoken about them in a recent press conference. I would never have expected that.

Nah, you missed the line where Itoje says “except Brown and Hartley”

[BamBam]

Marcus Smith is having one on one tackling and defence training with Jamie Roberts at Quins

If it wasn't you posting that, I'd think it was a joke!. I now picture that being Roberts running at Marcus repeatedly, poor lad

[Geordie]

Yeah that's what I pictured as well Bam bam...

Crash ball, get back up, crash ball, get back up...and repeat....

[Scottrf]

Would we say George needs to focus on improving and not making demands of his manager?

"Eddie will have to start me if I become world’s best hooker" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/01/29/jamie-george-eddie-will-have-start-become-worlds-best-hooker/

Pretty arrogant.

[Geordie]

Jones will simply say..."then become the Worlds best and ill start you"...

[No 7&1/2]

Bloody pay walls.

[beshocked]

“It’s always so exciting when new caps come in because they bring a fresh amount of energy, they’re very excited with the element of unknown for them,” he says. “I like it because I get to put my arm around people and enjoy meeting new people.

“I don’t know either of them [Boyce and Hepburn] off the pitch, but I’ve seen a lot of them and I’ve played a lot against Alec Hepburn. He’s part of an Exeter scrum that has been dominating everyone this season so why wouldn’t he be involved? I’m very excited to be learning from these guys, to be able to work with these people means you learn things and I found that out with Harry Williams this year, coming in with him, what a brilliant scrummager he is and one that I’ve learned a huge amount from so hopefully I can learn from those guys coming in.”


Jamie George doesn't sound arrogant to me - he says he wants to keep learning and help.

[TightHEAD]

Is it me or does Jamie look like he needs to lose a few pounds?

[No 7&1/2]

He's not said where exactly.he needs to improve. Wonder why jones and the coaches are giving george a free ride. Dunn must despair.

[Rugby Fan]

Bloody pay walls.

Here:

He has been, by common consent, the best hooker in the Premiership for a couple of seasons now, starred in all three Tests for the British & Irish Lions in New Zealand last summer and, at the age of 27, is coming into his prime.

Yet, incredibly, Jamie George has started as many games in his cricket whites at Lord’s as he has in the white shirt of England Rugby at Twickenham.

George – who famously racked up a record 19 England appearances from the bench before finally being granted a start by Eddie Jones against Samoa in November – played his solitary game at the home of cricket in a charity match for Bunbury a few years ago.

Typical of his luck, he did not actually get to bat.

“I was gutted!” admits the Saracens hooker, who roomed with the England batsman Sam Billings as a schoolboy at Haileybury. “We’re a bit of a cricket-mad family. But there were like 15 batsmen for Bunbury and I was due in about 13. We never got that far down the order.”

Never one to let the disappointment of being left on the bench affect him unduly, George did his best when called upon. “I did take three wickets,” he says. “Bowling slow, seam-up, I guess. Off about four steps. Horrible, but it did the job.”

In many ways the anecdote could sum up George’s international career to date; biding his time, making an impact when given the chance. Not that you could call George’s rugby-throwing action “horrible”. He has the best throw percentage in the Premiership this season at more than 90 per cent.

He will, though, find himself back in familiar territory in Rome on Sunday, on the bench, with Jones preferring to keep faith with his captain Dylan Hartley.
Jamie George and Dylan Hartley - Jamie George: 'Eddie will have to start me if I become world’s best hooker'

To his credit, there is no trace of bitterness in George’s voice when he sums up the England situation. “I’d be lying if I said I never got frustrated about it,” he says. “But it is what it is. It’s not Dylan’s fault. We actually get on really well. People forget how successful he has been. Is he the most capped England hooker of all time now? He must have close to 90 caps now. And he has won 22 out of 23 matches as captain. You can’t argue with that.”

George’s plan is to make his case so forcefully that he leaves Jones with no option but to put him in from the start. And he says he can get better in “all areas”.

“I want my game involvement to be higher,” he says. “I can improve my decision-making on and off the ball. Stronger collisions at the breakdown, stronger collisions in defence. I want to burst through tackles more, running off nine, running off 10 … I want to be more effective in what I do basically.

He smiles. “It is a huge driving force for me. If I become the best hooker in the world then there’s no choice is there? So that’s my mindset. I’ve got to become the best hooker in the world. By far. Above and beyond everyone else.”

Is he not already? “That’s not really for me to say,” he replies, mumbling something about Dane Coles being “pretty awesome”.

George does not deny, though, that he has the best fitness of any hooker in the England set-up which, when you consider his frame compared with some of the smaller hookers around, is impressive. “I don’t know why but I’ve always had a pretty good engine,” he says. “If you got me to do a yo-yo test I’d like to think I’d be up with the back rowers.

“Top-speed stuff, particularly, is where I’m looking at the minute. I’m trying to get quicker, but also trying to do it more often. Repeated accelerations. Eddie is big on GPS data in training and in games. So we all know exactly what efforts we have put in.”

In the meantime, George is getting on with his life. His interests have always ranged beyond the confines of the pitch, something he credits to his parents. His father Ian was a scrum-half for Northampton (and agonisingly, nine times an unused substitute for England) before becoming a teacher at Haileybury, where George grew up with his twin brothers. His mother was also a teacher, as well as being a talented netball and hockey player.

“They always sort of impressed upon me the need to look beyond rugby,” he says.

George has 2½ years of a sports science degree behind him, has done work experience with APEX, a currency exchange company in the City and, next month, opens a new business venture, Carter & George, a physiotherapy practice which he has set up with school friend Rhys Carter in Hoddesdon, Hertfordshire.

If Jones allows, he says, he may even try to “steal” a few of his England team-mates to help with the opening, although that could depend on how well England start the tournament.

After his brief taste of starting back in November, George will hope to make his usual impact from the bench, as he continues his quest to become the best in the world. “I do genuinely feel I’m playing some of the best stuff I ever have,” he reflects.

“And a big driving force behind that is the competition of starting for England.”

[No 7&1/2]

Thanks. Appreciated. I suspect well see him.come on early 2nd half for the majority this 6Ns. Will be good to see if he can bring the big impact earlier and keep it going. He.got a chance for the lions.but looked.sluggish compared to what we've seen off the bench. That's when he'll force jones' hand for me.

[BamBam]

I'd also be very surprised if he doesn't get around 30 mins a game

[beshocked]

He's not said where exactly.he needs to improve. Wonder why jones and the coaches  are giving george a free ride. Dunn must despair.

Well that's a complete lie because George does say where he needs to improve.

It proves my point though - certain players were looking where to improve.... others aren't. Or perhaps they just aren't acknowledging it publicly.

[Geordie]

Who isn't looking to improve though Beshocked?

Where have you read that a certain player isn't wanting to learn?

[No 7&1/2]

Hmm. As it wasn't available until someone kindly posted below it wasn't a lie just lack of info. But you still seem to be suggesting the coaches who you are full of praise for in another thread (albeit with detail whatsoever) are not working and helping players to improve.

[beshocked]

Brown hasn't shown any indication he is looking to improve. Neither has Hartley. If there is an article saying so - I'll change my mind. As I said there are now multiple articles of other England players highlighting areas but these two are silent....

Well no 7 & 1/2 you jumped the gun and the article proves that George is trying to work hard.

The coaches can try and help the players but the players themselves have to be motivated to improve.

[SecretFly]

The coaches can try and help the players but the players themselves have to be motivated to improve.

but they are under no obligation to publically declare such things. Just because some players speak about their careers in certain ways it doesn't mean all of them have to use a common Interview template

[No 7&1/2]

Erm there's an article above beshocked which says that the players all.know. Not the players except hartley and Brown. I also posted one with quotes from may etc saying similar. So you are now saying that the coaches and possibly jones though.you say he's focused on media (!?) Have told.hartley and Brown what to improve they re ignoring them but jones is still.picking them and borthwick and Gustard are too scared(?) To take them to task? Will you ignore this point as you have ignored the points you can't answer on the other thread?

[beshocked]

The coaches can try and help the players but the players themselves have to be motivated to improve.

but they are under no obligation to publically declare such things.  Just because some players speak about their careers in certain ways it doesn't mean all of them have to use a common Interview template

True but it seems peculiar when most are publically declaring things to improve but the two players I have highlighted haven't. Both have had the opportunity to do so.

It's what I want to hear to be honest. I am pleased when players publically say it.

Now yes one would hope every single player is motivated to improve but it's good to hear it from the players themselves.

no 7 & 1/2 I ignore some of what you say because I think you WUM purposefully, though I did answer one of your questions.

Not sure you quite understand the difference between a player publically admitting they need to improve and hiding behind closed doors. The former is better than the latter.

[No 7&1/2]

Well depends on what will bring the best out of the player. I'm not wumming I'm asking you to justify your opinion in a discussion.

[Geordie]

Brown hasn't shown any indication he is looking to improve. Neither has Hartley. If there is an article saying so - I'll change my mind. As I said there are now multiple articles of other England players highlighting areas but these two are silent....

Well no 7 & 1/2 you jumped the gun and the article proves that George is trying to work hard.

The coaches can try and help the players but the players themselves have to be motivated to improve.

Not directly from their mouths...but that is not necessary.
there have been clear indications from many other sources that all the players have their targets and must be driven to achieve them.

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