England Six Nations Thread

by Cumbrian Thu 18 Jan - 11:31

First topic message reminder :

Squad (From RFU Website):

Backs

Full backs
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Nathan Earle (Saracens) *
Harry Mallinder (Northampton Saints) *
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)

Inside backs
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Alex Lozowski (Saracens)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins) * **
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Forwards

Back five
Gary Graham (Newcastle Falcons) *
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby) *
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)

Front row
Lewis Boyce (Harlequins) *
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby) *
Jamie George (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs) *
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)

Players unavailable
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
Piers Francis (Northampton Saints)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Nathan Hughes (Wasps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby)
Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby)
Will Spencer (Worcester Warriors)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)

Uncapped *
Apprentice player **

Fixtures:

*All kick-off times in GMT.

Italy v England
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Sunday 4th February 2018
Kick Off: 3:00pm

England v Wales
Twickenham Stadium, London
Saturday 10th February 2018
Kick Off: 4:45pm

Scotland v England
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Saturday 24th February 2018
Kick Off: 4:45pm

France v England
Stade de France, Paris
Saturday 10th March 2018
Kick Off: 4:45pm

England v Ireland
Twickenham Stadium, London
Saturday 17th March 2018
Kick Off: 2:45pm

Officialdom:

Italy v England

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Nic Berry (Australia)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

England v Wales

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 1: Mathieu Reynal (France)
Assistant 2: Nic Berry (Australia)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

Scotland v England

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

France v England

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant 1: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 2: Marius van der Westhuizen (South Africa)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

England v Ireland

Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 1: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant 2: Marius van der Westhuizen (South Africa)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

by Scottrf Mon 12 Feb - 12:44

So option two and a bunch of complaints he should pick option 1? Sorted.

by propdavid_london Mon 12 Feb - 12:59

I would prefer that 1st combination GF.
Lawes hasn't done anything wrong at 6 in the first few games - just feel that specialist back rowers offer more dynamism.
That tackle from Underhill was as good as a try.....

Launchbury looks un-droppable at the moment. Odd to say it but Kruis could drop out, Itoje on bench to offer options in the back 5 and start with Launchbury and Lawes in the engine room.

by thomh Mon 12 Feb - 13:02

I'm not really convinced Hughes is good enough to bother rushing him in without match fitness. Give him three weeks more of Wasps games then consider him for France, but for the moment, presuming Simmonds is OK, we should be covered.

by lostinwales Mon 12 Feb - 13:16

propdavid_london wrote:I would prefer that 1st combination GF.
Lawes hasn't done anything wrong at 6 in the first few games - just feel that specialist back rowers offer more dynamism.
That tackle from Underhill was as good as a try.....

Launchbury looks un-droppable at the moment. Odd to say it but Kruis could drop out, Itoje on bench to offer options in the back 5 and start with Launchbury and Lawes in the engine room.

I wouldn't mind that lock combo with Itoje on the bench. It's not that Itoje has looked bad as such but he certainly has looked mortal. Launchbury is playing on a different level.

by Geordie Mon 12 Feb - 13:20

Launchbury always plays at a different level. He's Mr consistently top class.

If he was a premium lineout target aswell he'd be the best lock in the world.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 12 Feb - 18:13

Another training camp. Few more changes. Sam moore and ibitoye in as apprentice players. No sinckler.

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/six-nations-england-eddie-jones-names-man-squad-for-training-camp/?sf181921234=1

by SecretFly Mon 12 Feb - 18:20

No 7&1/2 wrote:Another training camp. Few more changes. Sam moore and ibitoye in as apprentice players. No sinckler.

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/six-nations-england-eddie-jones-names-man-squad-for-training-camp/?sf181921234=1

Yis have got billions in the old WC war chest, 7. Yis have got to spend it on something. Paying for the whole Georgian team to turn up as training field crash test dummies is larging it, big time Wink

by BamBam Mon 12 Feb - 18:28

Isn't it great that Sam Moore would rather play for the U20s and be an apprentice in the England squad rather than accept a call up to the full Wales squad

Well done that lad

The sooner we name our U20 side our nominated team to tie players in the better

by ChequeredJersey Mon 12 Feb - 18:46

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Just watched the match after being at work on Saturday.

England were lacking urgency, cruised the entire match and looked far the better side for me. Everyone had a decent game but the killer instinct to crush Wales was lacking, as was the discipline. We let Wales have a chance through sheer complacency.

The controversial try was obviously a knock on.

Backrow balance will need improving for Ireland.

Eddie has 2 weeks now so should be fine to bring in players he wants not stop gaps - I hope we seen Robson and Hughes back in.

Brown shows up well when he's under pressure. Had a great game, what we needed to kill the Wales exit strategy.
Both wingers worked hard. Joseph improves our defence. Farrell/Ford axis is world class
Care was good, kicked much better than expected. Still doesn't play like Danny Care when he starts in White.
Simmonds good until his injury, adds pace to our pack
Robshaw excellent at 7 and 8
Lawes had a decent game at 6 again, just think it's an accident waiting to happen
Frodo made decisions well when he came on and his tackle was beautiful. No... you know what I mean.
Launch was excellent, my MOTM
Itoje better than last week, worse than last season
Cole decent, I'd prefer others biut Cole has had a good 6 N so far
Hartley good and led well, excellent basics
Mako also very dependable.
Nowell constantly pushed the line in attack when he came on

As a team, lots to work on. But it wasn't as close as the scoreline and the punditry suggests

Agree with all those CJ bar Robshaw who I though played well and no more. He added little to the carrying and was ineffectual at the breakdown, despite seemingly going for more than he normally does.

How good has Launchbury been this 6N??? He's like a man possessed! His carrying has been better than ever before and he's coming onto the ball at about 90mph, very impressed with him.

Dude, he made the most metres of any England forward, at over 2 per carry as well the highest average except Simmonds. As well as the joint top tackles.

As for the breakdown, that’s not what I saw, though I’ll accept I’m biased , it’s a hard area to adjudicate and stats are very hard to come by.

by Geordie Mon 12 Feb - 20:26

No Simmonds in the training squad.

Would suggest his injury is a bit longer than we hoped.

by Guest Mon 12 Feb - 20:29

BamBam wrote:Isn't it great that Sam Moore would rather play for the U20s and be an apprentice in the England squad rather than accept a call up to the full Wales squad

Well done that lad

The sooner we name our U20 side our nominated team to tie players in the better

He’ll play for Wales. You’ll see!

by Geordie Mon 12 Feb - 20:33

Sam Moore is another Morriarty. Welsh through and through...with both his father and uncle playing for Wales.

He will waste a spot that could be used for another English lad in the U20 then feck off to play for Wales in the seniors.

Pointless effort.

England should make the U20's binding...and it will stop all this farce.

by BamBam Mon 12 Feb - 21:13

Oh is he?

Ok, well then I hope he gets a painful verruca every time he's due to play for them vomit

by ChequeredJersey Mon 12 Feb - 21:22

Surprise Sam Moore- the “warm up training game” against Georgia is secretly a test

by lostinwales Mon 12 Feb - 21:23

Simmonds due to miss Scotland according to the Grauniad. It's a great shame as I think he would do well against them. No news on Watson either - but at least we have cover for the wing

England have lost one No 8 but gained another before the Calcutta Cup match against Scotland in Edinburgh next week. Exeter’s Sam Simmonds, one of his country’s most effective players this month, is set to miss Murrayfield after sustaining a shoulder injury against Wales on Saturday but Wasps’ Nathan Hughes is fit again and could make an instant return.
No detailed prognosis is yet available as to how long Simmonds will be out while the Bath wing Anthony Watson will be assessed this week after limping off early in the second half of England’

by Geordie Mon 12 Feb - 22:07

In that case LIW, Ill put my money on it being the following.

6 Lawes
7 Robshaw
8 Hughes

Hughes off knackered after about 50/55 mins.
Robshaw to 8 then Underhill on at 7.

I cant see Jones bringing Mercer up just yet.

by BamBam Mon 12 Feb - 22:10

Just noticed no George Kruis in the 32 man squad, Ewels is in. Does that point to Kruis being dropped or only 3 locks being in the matchday squad

by Scottrf Mon 12 Feb - 22:12

Maybe it means even Eddie is admitting we need to compete at the breakdown. Our penalty count is ridiculous.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 12 Feb - 22:12

No 7&1/2 wrote:Another training camp. Few more changes. Sam moore and ibitoye in as apprentice players. No sinckler.

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/six-nations-england-eddie-jones-names-man-squad-for-training-camp/?sf181921234=1

No Kruis either.

Oh and Nowell named in the "Full Backs " section this time, rather than inside backs

by Scottrf Mon 12 Feb - 22:15

Probably just a copy and paste error originally but didn't stop people saying they've always thought it was his best position.

by lostinwales Mon 12 Feb - 23:01

It would make sense for Nowell if he's in line to come in on the wing instead of an injured Watson.

Independent hasn't given up on Simmonds making the Scotland game yet but details still very light.

Kruis definitely down the pecking order these days. Maybe Eddie thinks he'll get more out of playing for Sarries.

Williams no Sinckler. Marler back and the other Hairy Devon prop back home. All OK but do feel that we are missing a 9

by BigTrevsbigmac Tue 13 Feb - 8:11

GeordieFalcon wrote:In that case LIW, Ill put my money on it being the following.

6 Lawes
7 Robshaw
8 Hughes

Hughes off knackered after about 50/55 mins.
Robshaw to 8 then Underhill on at 7.

I cant see Jones bringing Mercer up just yet.

Haskell is back in to so may come into the reckoning as starter or bench cover although might be harsh on Underhill.

Could be tried & tested.

6. Robshaw
7. Haskell
8. Hughes

Lawes covering bench

by cascough Tue 13 Feb - 8:23

Scottrf wrote:Probably just a copy and paste error originally but didn't stop people saying they've always thought it was his best position.

To be fair, Eddie Jones commented on it saying they thought Nowell might line up at 13, which did fan the flames somewhat. However it would not surprise me in the slightest and instead of admit it's an error, Jones runs with it.

by propdavid_london Tue 13 Feb - 8:51

Would like to see Lawes back in the engine room, Itoje on the bench with Hask or Hughes (if Simmonds fit).

Marler,Hartley,Cole, Launchbury, Lawes, Robshaw, Underhill, Simmonds/Hughes

Bench: Mako, George, Williams, Itoje, Haskell

Itoje has done nothing wrong, just the others have been performing better and he is below his usual high standards. A drop to the bench might motivate him more.

by thomh Tue 13 Feb - 9:25

I'd love it if Nowell ended up playing 13 as a result of a copy paste error. Mike Bassett's selection of Benson and Hedges coming to fruition.

by **Rugby Fan** Tue 13 Feb - 9:26

propdavid_london wrote:Itoje has done nothing wrong, just the others have been performing better and he is below his usual high standards. A drop to the bench might motivate him more.

I think a combination of a Lions tour, no pre-season, a broken jaw, and the new ruck laws have put him off his game. All players have had to change their approach but Itoje did like kicking the ball out of rucks, and I don't think he's yet got his positioning or timing quite where he'd like to be. Still a good player but not making a nuisance of himself, and lifting his own side with interventions.

by cascough Tue 13 Feb - 9:34

The only concern I have with no Kruis or Itoje in the starting XV is the scrum. We would probably get away with it against Scotland but against France I'm not so sure.

by lostinwales Tue 13 Feb - 9:56

cascough wrote:The only concern I have with no Kruis or Itoje in the starting XV is the scrum. We would probably get away with it against Scotland but against France I'm not so sure.

Yes but I have a lot more faith in our scrum with Marler starting than with Mako, for all his all round brilliance.

by Sgt_Pooly Tue 13 Feb - 10:19

lostinwales wrote:
cascough wrote:The only concern I have with no Kruis or Itoje in the starting XV is the scrum. We would probably get away with it against Scotland but against France I'm not so sure.

Yes but I have a lot more faith in our scrum with Marler starting than with Mako, for all his all round brilliance.

The scrum has been quite strong, certainly a step up on the AI.

by BamBam Tue 13 Feb - 10:21

Yeah Mako has done pretty well, none of the sides have looked to have an especially strong scrum

by Sgt_Pooly Tue 13 Feb - 10:34

And Scotland seemed to do ok against France from what I watched, which was quite a surprise. Italy seem to have the worst unit, not sure how they got on against Ireland.

by mid_gen Tue 13 Feb - 10:59

Scrummaging is less of a priority now that referees are finally able to instruct the 9 to use the available ball instead of waiting for a penalty (thankfully).

Mako is a better bench player imo, like Sinckler. He was absolutely blowing before he went off (too late imo).

by Geordie Tue 13 Feb - 11:41

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:In that case LIW, Ill put my money on it being the following.

6 Lawes
7 Robshaw
8 Hughes

Hughes off knackered after about 50/55 mins.
Robshaw to 8 then Underhill on at 7.

I cant see Jones bringing Mercer up just yet.

Haskell is back in to so may come into the reckoning as starter or bench cover although might be harsh on Underhill.

Could be tried & tested.

6. Robshaw
7. Haskell
8. Hughes

Lawes covering bench

I think we need to Focus on Underhill now. Unless we're REALLY struggling for an 8, then possibly pop Haskell in.

6 Robshaw
7 Underhill
8 Haskell

by englandglory4ever Tue 13 Feb - 11:57

mid_gen wrote:Scrummaging is less of a priority now that referees are finally able to instruct the 9 to use the available ball instead of waiting for a penalty (thankfully).

Mako is a better bench player imo, like Sinckler. He was absolutely blowing before he went off (too late imo).

I agree. Mako was completely spent about 10 mins before he went. His scrummaging is still a weakness. It'll be good to get Marler back but if he lets England down with another ban then Eddie should say Thanks but no thanks, we'll call you.

by englandglory4ever Tue 13 Feb - 12:00

"..I think we need to Focus on Underhill now. Unless we're REALLY struggling for an 8, then possibly pop Haskell in.

6 Robshaw
7 Underhill
8 Haskell"

Not bad, but not much in the way of go-forward ball carriers there. All good defensively but we need a better balance.

by mid_gen Tue 13 Feb - 12:10

I don't think there's an awful lot between Marler and Mako in the loose. They both put in a ton of work carrying and relish the physical stuff. Mako just edges it with some nice handling and offloads. Marler is undoubtedly fitter and the better scrummager though.

Sinckler has potential to be better than both once he's racked a few years of the dark arts and stays fit though...hope Genge can stay fit, that's an absolute beast of a pair.

by beshocked Tue 13 Feb - 12:20

Funny mid gen all those players bar Mako all are a bit hot headed.

It's important they stay out of trouble.

Jones likes his bad boys though as do many England fans supposedly.

by BamBam Tue 13 Feb - 12:27

mid_gen wrote:I don't think there's an awful lot between Marler and Mako in the loose. They both put in a ton of work carrying and relish the physical stuff. Mako just edges it with some nice handling and offloads. Marler is undoubtedly fitter and the better scrummager though.

Sinckler has potential to be better than both once he's racked a few years of the dark arts and stays fit though...hope Genge can stay fit, that's an absolute beast of a pair.

Sinckler is a tighthead, don't think he ever plays loosehead

by lostinwales Tue 13 Feb - 12:28

mid_gen wrote:I don't think there's an awful lot between Marler and Mako in the loose. They both put in a ton of work carrying and relish the physical stuff. Mako just edges it with some nice handling and offloads. Marler is undoubtedly fitter and the better scrummager though.

Sinckler has potential to be better than both once he's racked a few years of the dark arts and stays fit though...hope Genge can stay fit, that's an absolute beast of a pair.

Sinckler is a TH. He's competing with Cole (and Williams). Marler and Mako both young (even if Mako looks ancient) but Genge looks to have plenty of potential.

by mid_gen Tue 13 Feb - 12:37

Yeah I'm aware he plays on the other side, just talking props in general.

Williams has been good off the bench so far this 6n. In the forwards at least we're moving towards that enviable position where there's not a lot between the top 3 players in each position.

Our bench is winning us matches....but it's the players outside the 23 that you need for a WC campaign..

by SecretFly Tue 13 Feb - 12:43

beshocked wrote:Funny mid gen all those players bar Mako all are a bit hot headed.

It's important they stay out of trouble.

Jones likes his bad boys though as do many England fans supposedly.

It's cinema. Eddie is always after the cinematic. He likes this idea that he's grizzled old sarge, knocking together a unit full of delinquents and ployahs that haven't been given no love to in their lives..... and him tellin' them they're worth something to him, coz he knows what's it's like to have to struggle for everything ya got in life with nobody giving no two F**Ks about you!!! and ....... (warning: it's a family movie Eddie!)

...... and we'll forget about the bed hopping bit then....

but I love yous dirty, killer types that nobody could. Now go out there and rip their F**Kin........................ (this movie has been banned in all cinemas due to unacceptable content)

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