The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

First topic message reminder :

Some of the Irish provinces seem to be doing fine.  Munster might be able to pay back a few shillings to Landsdowne HQ this season.  Leinster have finally started sharing. Connacht have survived Mr Grumpy and have managed another Challenge Cup quarter.  Could they make the final?
Ulster need a separate topic to cover all their issues.  Oh - and they have one.  

Italy.  Treviso are now Benetton and improving to the point of it being grudgingly admitted outside of Italy.  Zebre?  See Ulster above.  The FIR continue to fiddle the other unions while Rome burns.  

Scarlets on the other hand continue to see Byrne roam.  And sidestep.  The WRU must be grinning from ear to ear as Scarlets are simply steaming.   Who needs union monies when you can assemble a squad like this?  Top of their conference and finishing top of their pool in front of a packed house to gain a home quarterfinal in the Champions Cup. What more could you ask for?  Possibly a sneaky Welsh cap for Tadgh Beirne but little else to complain about.  If Gatland can harness the Scarlets, a la Leinster and Glasgow, and get Wales moving to the top in the Six Nations, the WRU might need to send a little more love (hard cash) over Llanelli way to encourage them further.  

Dragons got bought by the WRU.  And then hired an Irish coach. And then fixed their pitch.  And then things went so so.  And the jury went out on Jackman.  And then they started losing. A lot.  And then they had lots of announcements about new players for next season. And then they got knocked out of the Challenge Cup.  
And now it’s a wait for another season.  Not sure if the jury has come back in yet but Jackman has a battle on his hands.  

Ospreys continue to plumb new depths and eventually decided to fire their coach after failing in the Champions Cup once again.  Will they be in the Challenge Cup next season?

Cardiff have at least made the knockouts of the Challenge Cup but they’re still batting eyes at the WRU some say.  Will they succumb to the union’s clutches?

All the way down to Port Elizabeth for the new entrants.

The Southern Kings? See Zebre.  X 100.   Massive squad revamp needed and SARU investment.

Cheetahs?   Just when they’d notched another triumph on their league bedpost, came the news that another of their players had been nicked for another SR side. Their top try scorer is leaving too.  They’ve 8 wins in the bag, can they get a few more to make it into the playoffs?  

And finally the Scots.  Cockerill is definitely making inroads and if it doesn’t happen this season, they’ll be making life difficult in 2018/19 for a few of the higher up clubs. Their sassy and classy neighbours look strong prospects for the Championship title with a single loss so far.   Not too long ago, the SRU was making plaintive noises about the costs of running the two clubs and seeking private investors.  Then they went quiet.  Then they announced a profit for the first time in a long while.  And investment in academy is starting to pay off.  And the Test team isn’t doing too shabby either.  SRU CEO, Mark Dodson, says long term objective is to secure external investment to ensure the future of the game.  

We’ve had the first inkling of a change and expected increase in TV revenues for the Championship with EirSport announced as the new broadcaster for games in the Irish territory.  Anayi & Co still have to deliver a substantial increase on previous revenues.  The SARU/SuperSport deal has ensured part of that with a reported 36m six-year agreement.   What will GB deliver?

Private investment and Union control/money.  Will a happy marriage eventually be reached?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:
I can't see that bit in the PA

No? That's a shame for you.

Yip and it's not like there's a judge overseeing any contentious issues who doesn't see the Dragons takeover being in contravention of the PA

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:
I can't see that bit in the PA

No? That's a shame for you.

Yip and it's not like there's a judge overseeing any contentious issues who doesn't see the Dragons takeover being in contravention of the PA  

The Dragons takeover itself, isn't the contravention.

That's the 6th time I've said it now.

So what does rugby's rugby man have to say about all this? The champion of the people, the saviour of the club system in Wales.... what does WRU chairman Gareth Davies, who got rid of that anti-Welsh rugby hooligan, Roger Lewis, think about it all?

Like I said before...he was the knight in shining armour wasn't he? Yet he's at the helm of an WRU slowly contemplating an Irish more Union-inclusive system - Dragons being a tester.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:
I can't see that bit in the PA

No? That's a shame for you.

Yip and it's not like there's a judge overseeing any contentious issues who doesn't see the Dragons takeover being in contravention of the PA  

The Dragons takeover itself, isn't the contravention.

That's the 6th time I've said it now.

Well whoop di do for you

I was talking in broad strokes, no element of it is seen being in contravention but some idiot online says it is but what would a high court judge know eh

That idiot is such a legal expert he didn't understand how tv rights work

Not sure if anyone has answered this yet so sorry if I've missed it. What is the difference between scotland ireland etc when it comes to identifying and training refs and what differences would moving this centrally have?

LordDowlais wrote:Good god, some of you love avoiding the point and always try and be clever. Well done The Great Aukster.

The point I am trying to make is, that we are in a position that gives the people who want to hate, laugh, pick holes in our league the ammunition to do so.

As I have said, I do not care about other leagues, if their officials are no better, then that's their problem, not ours. I only care about our league.

I also want more refs from the other nations involved so that we can then have a Scottish/Italian/South African ref reffing games between other nations teams, and if there is a bad performance, we will not get national bias as an accusation, taking that stupid argument away from our league all together, because people will/are using it as a tool to ridicule the Pro14.

At the moment, we have Irish refs officiating Irish sides, and Welsh refs officiating Welsh sides, it' not their fault, as there is not enough refs from other nations to do the job.

But guess what ? If one of the refs has a howler, then national bias will raise it's ugly head, again, when in truth, there is not bias, just poor officiating.

We need to get away from it.

That won't stop the claims of bias from fans. Some Leinster fans think Clancy and Fitzgibbon are biased against Leinster. I've seen Irish fans claim Barnes is biased against Ireland etc etc.

This is such a minor issue in the grand scheme of things. Getting rid of this "perceived bias" will do nothing for the likes of RugbyFan here, who like many others have already made their mind up on the league. Stop worrying about what other people think and focus on stuff that matters.

SecretFly wrote:So what does rugby's rugby man have to say about all this?  The champion of the people, the saviour of the club system in Wales.... what does WRU chairman Gareth Davies, who got rid of that anti-Welsh rugby hooligan, Roger Lewis, think about it all?

Like I said before...he was the knight in shining armour wasn't he?  Yet he's at the helm of an WRU slowly contemplating an Irish more Union-inclusive system - Dragons being a tester.

WRU are only majority shareholders at the Dragons. Not exactly full ownership and WRU branding everywhere! Pretty sure they were on the board of the Dragons before too when Ebbw Vale walked away in 2005 (?!). So they’ve increased their stake a bit, perhaps, from whatever it was before to majority. Not sure it’s exactly the WRU takeover that people think it is. The Dragons chairman seems to feel that way too (that the WRU are NOT running things). See my earlier post.

Not sure why I’m posting this really though as I haven’t read much of the thread so it’s probably completely out of context! Don’t mind me!

Well I did cover myself earlier in saying it seems a complicated 'ownership' arrangement that might have limits in time or other factors..... but the allusions used about Dragons is all about it going to the Dark Side of the Force and being swallowed up by Darth Union and his Blazer Stormtroopers.  So ya gotta argue the presentation put to you.

It was said when Gareth Davies took over that finally here was a man that wouldn't allow Union to abuse and/or swallow up Regions because he understood the psychology of Regions and clubs.  But according to Lord and RugbyFan, and according to the references they make to Welsh rugby Region forums..... it seems to be all gone wrong for the champion and the war of sorts is back on again between the Evil Union and the Rebel Regions.

SecretFly wrote:it seems to be all gone wrong for the champion and the war of sorts is back on again between the Evil Union and the Rebel Regions.

It was never ended, just a sort of ceasefire.

Edit: left work pc unlocked d’oh

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:it seems to be all gone wrong for the champion and the war of sorts is back on again between the Evil Union and the Rebel Regions.

It was never ended, just a sort of ceasefire.

There you go.

That's a battle the Welsh have to sort out for themselves.  And it seems much too culturally driven and deeply divisive an issue to have a satisfactory solution any time soon.  From the outside looking in, any solution still seems decades off rather than merely years.

So if people talk about Pro14 and issues that curtail its progress;  there's one big continuing one that has hounded each incarnation of a 'Celtic' League since day one.  But it's also an issue only the Welsh Regions and the Union can sort out by themselves.  It isn't the business of any of the other contributing teams/Unions.

I'd personally say too that that endless war between Regions/Clubs and Union in Wales is a much bigger issue stalling Pro14 progress than the issue of getting a few more match officials in from Scotland and Italy.

But it's Welsh business - so it's not our right as outsiders to constantly complain about it not being sorted satisfactorily for the Pro14 to settle down into a real settled phase.

LordDowlais wrote:Good god, some of you love avoiding the point and always try and be clever. Well done The Great Aukster.

The point I am trying to make is, that we are in a position that gives the people who want to hate, laugh, pick holes in our league the ammunition to do so.

As I have said, I do not care about other leagues, if their officials are no better, then that's their problem, not ours. I only care about our league.

I also want more refs from the other nations involved so that we can then have a Scottish/Italian/South African ref reffing games between other nations teams, and if there is a bad performance, we will not get national bias as an accusation, taking that stupid argument away from our league all together, because people will/are using it as a tool to ridicule the Pro14.

At the moment, we have Irish refs officiating Irish sides, and Welsh refs officiating Welsh sides, it' not their fault, as there is not enough refs from other nations to do the job.

But guess what ? If one of the refs has a howler, then national bias will raise it's ugly head, again, when in truth, there is not bias, just poor officiating.

We need to get away from it.

You mention giving people ammunition, national bias as an accusation, people ridiculing the Pro14, national bias raising it's ugly head yada yada yada, yet have only cited ONE example that could possibly be construed as such. One swallow doesn't make a summer and neither does one example build a case to convince anyone there is a problem - normally no one pays any heed unless there are at least 30 examples taken from a range of sources. So where are all the examples of these accusations - are they in print, or was this something you overheard an Argus reporter telling a rather fetching blonde down the Feathers on conspiracy night?

Just watched the Waratahs beat the Stormers in Sydney. BP try in the last phase of a game that was 27 all.

Officiated by ARU Employee Sydney's Angus Gardiner. What a disgrace. Absolute joke of a league. How can a person in the pay of the same employer as 4 of the teams be let ref a game like this!

I know. Despicable. And they think they can get away with it too just because they're on the upside down part of the planet and the rest of us have to stand on our heads to watch the games!

Disgusting!

Officials for Ulster v Glasgow

Referee: John Lacey (pictured, 68th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Andrew Brace & Barrie O’Connell
Citing Commissioner: Eddie Walsh
TMO: Kevin Beggs

Think they're just doing it to pi$$ some people off now

St John The Enforcer wrote:Just watched the Waratahs beat the Stormers in Sydney. BP try in the last phase of a game that was 27 all.

Officiated by ARU Employee Sydney's Angus Gardiner. What a disgrace. Absolute joke of a league. How can a person in the pay of the same employer as 4 of the teams be let ref a game like this!

Aren't the Waratahs run by New South Wales Rugby Union? Which is why their accounts are published? And not kept in house like the Irish provinces?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

St John The Enforcer wrote:Just watched the Waratahs beat the Stormers in Sydney. BP try in the last phase of a game that was 27 all.

Officiated by ARU Employee Sydney's Angus Gardiner. What a disgrace. Absolute joke of a league. How can a person in the pay of the same employer as 4 of the teams be let ref a game like this!

Aren't the Waratahs run by New South Wales Rugby Union? Which is why their accounts are published? And not kept in house like the Irish provinces?

Except Ulster publish theirs in their Annual Report and the other 3 provinces are available through the revenue commissioners for a small charge but not like you to be wrong :roll

RugbyFan, the newbie, always wants to get his hands on Irish accounts.

I can see an international incident happening sometime in the future as his unit is caught hacking into the IRFU secret offshore accounts in the Caymen Islands.

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

St John The Enforcer wrote:Just watched the Waratahs beat the Stormers in Sydney. BP try in the last phase of a game that was 27 all.

Officiated by ARU Employee Sydney's Angus Gardiner. What a disgrace. Absolute joke of a league. How can a person in the pay of the same employer as 4 of the teams be let ref a game like this!

Aren't the Waratahs run by New South Wales Rugby Union? Which is why their accounts are published? And not kept in house like the Irish provinces?

Except Ulster publish theirs in their Annual Report and the other 3 provinces are available through the revenue commissioners for a small charge but not like you to be wrong :roll

So are the Waratahs owned and operated by the ARU or not?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

St John The Enforcer wrote:Just watched the Waratahs beat the Stormers in Sydney. BP try in the last phase of a game that was 27 all.

Officiated by ARU Employee Sydney's Angus Gardiner. What a disgrace. Absolute joke of a league. How can a person in the pay of the same employer as 4 of the teams be let ref a game like this!

Aren't the Waratahs run by New South Wales Rugby Union? Which is why their accounts are published? And not kept in house like the Irish provinces?

Except Ulster publish theirs in their Annual Report and the other 3 provinces are available through the revenue commissioners for a small charge but not like you to be wrong :roll

So are the Waratahs owned and operated by the ARU or not?

Owned yes, operated no

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

St John The Enforcer wrote:Just watched the Waratahs beat the Stormers in Sydney. BP try in the last phase of a game that was 27 all.

Officiated by ARU Employee Sydney's Angus Gardiner. What a disgrace. Absolute joke of a league. How can a person in the pay of the same employer as 4 of the teams be let ref a game like this!

Aren't the Waratahs run by New South Wales Rugby Union? Which is why their accounts are published? And not kept in house like the Irish provinces?

Except Ulster publish theirs in their Annual Report and the other 3 provinces are available through the revenue commissioners for a small charge but not like you to be wrong :roll

So are the Waratahs owned and operated by the ARU or not?

Owned yes, operated no

I see. And the Melbourne rebels. Tell me about those guys. Who owns and runs them?

Not quite the same scenario is it. Having said that, any Union interference in domestic leagues is bad for the game, so St John the Enforcer was mostly right in his post.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

St John The Enforcer wrote:Just watched the Waratahs beat the Stormers in Sydney. BP try in the last phase of a game that was 27 all.

Officiated by ARU Employee Sydney's Angus Gardiner. What a disgrace. Absolute joke of a league. How can a person in the pay of the same employer as 4 of the teams be let ref a game like this!

Aren't the Waratahs run by New South Wales Rugby Union? Which is why their accounts are published? And not kept in house like the Irish provinces?

Except Ulster publish theirs in their Annual Report and the other 3 provinces are available through the revenue commissioners for a small charge but not like you to be wrong :roll

So are the Waratahs owned and operated by the ARU or not?

Owned yes, operated no

I see. And the Melbourne rebels. Tell me about those guys. Who owns and runs them?

Not quite the same scenario is it. Having said that, any Union interference in domestic leagues is bad for the game, so St John the Enforcer was mostly right in his post.

You've got Google go use it

SecretFly wrote:

I'd personally say too that that endless war between Regions/Clubs and Union in Wales is a much bigger issue stalling Pro14 progress than the issue of getting a few more match officials in from Scotland and Italy.

.

Out of interest, why is this? What sort of ways are the Welsh holding the league back with all the nasty infighting?

Have you got a list of sponsors that are queuing up to invest in the pro14 but don't want to because of the ongoing huge war in Wales plastered all over the media?

Or maybe it's because the Welsh are too busy fighting with each other that their teams are so bad and never win the leag.....oh no, you can't use that one anymore.

Is it that the tv companies would want to plough in an extra £15m per annum if the welsh stopped this crazy power struggle that is a continual blight on the competition?

Is it that Munich RFC, Hamburg Beefburger RFC and Texas Tyrannosaurs want to join the league but are discouraged from doing so because of all this nasty horrid shennanigans going on in Wales that is a blight on the league?

Any evidence?

Joker

RugbyFan100 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

I'd personally say too that that endless war between Regions/Clubs and Union in Wales is a much bigger issue stalling Pro14 progress than the issue of getting a few more match officials in from Scotland and Italy.

.

Out of interest, why is this? What sort of ways are the Welsh holding the league back with all the nasty infighting?

Have you got a list of sponsors that are queuing up to invest in the pro14 but don't want to because of the ongoing huge war in Wales plastered all over the media?

Or maybe it's because the Welsh are too busy fighting with each other that their teams are so bad and never win the leag.....oh no, you can't use that one anymore.

Is it that the tv companies would want to plough in an extra £15m per annum if the welsh stopped this crazy power struggle that is a continual blight on the competition?

Is it that Munich RFC, Hamburg Beefburger RFC and Texas Tyrannosaurs want to join the league but are discouraged from doing so because of all this nasty horrid shennanigans going on in Wales that is a blight on  the league?

Any evidence?

Joker

Was it not Gerald Davies who said that the WRU/RRW civil war cost the league money from tv deals because they were on hold until that was resolved?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

I'd personally say too that that endless war between Regions/Clubs and Union in Wales is a much bigger issue stalling Pro14 progress than the issue of getting a few more match officials in from Scotland and Italy.

.

Out of interest, why is this? What sort of ways are the Welsh holding the league back with all the nasty infighting?

Have you got a list of sponsors that are queuing up to invest in the pro14 but don't want to because of the ongoing huge war in Wales plastered all over the media?

Or maybe it's because the Welsh are too busy fighting with each other that their teams are so bad and never win the leag.....oh no, you can't use that one anymore.

Is it that the tv companies would want to plough in an extra £15m per annum if the welsh stopped this crazy power struggle that is a continual blight on the competition?

Is it that Munich RFC, Hamburg Beefburger RFC and Texas Tyrannosaurs want to join the league but are discouraged from doing so because of all this nasty horrid shennanigans going on in Wales that is a blight on  the league?

Any evidence?

Joker

Oh did I hurt your feelings there, Rugby...Fan?

If you can't work out how continuous very public in-fighting between 4 Regions (once a full third of the League makeup) and their Union would have an effect on the marketability of a League that is trying to project an air of confidence and fraternity, then just sit back and be ignorant.
For decades now.  Whine and moan, 'we don't want to be here', not good enough, not enough autonomy, not enough money, more WRU money please, not a f**king great contest, we want out, where is the English?...etc etc etc ...    
Great platform for marketing a League.

So I'll repeat the point for you:

I'd personally say too that that endless war between Regions/Clubs and Union in Wales is a much bigger issue stalling Pro14 progress than the issue of getting a few more match officials in from Scotland and Italy.

But fly don't you understand. The poor Welsh are under constant attack by the Irish. We are out to destroy them.
People like fan here can see the truth.

Or he's a big sack of rocks

From then Pro12 Chairman Gerald Davies

Think he should have enough authority and knowledge on it

"The civil war between the WRU and the Regions went on for two years. It was a very unsettling, awkward time, which affected the television rights and sponsorship deals. It created so much uncertainty. Companies weren’t going to invest in something where no one was sure of the future."

http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/italy/the-big-pro12-interview-can-it-keep-pace-with-the-premiership-and-top-14-53103#MKIevGUSzZALx3GD.99

.

Kingshu wrote:From then Pro12 Chairman Gerald Davies

Think he should have enough authority and knowledge on it

"The civil war between the WRU and the Regions went on for two years. It was a very unsettling, awkward time, which affected the television rights and sponsorship deals. It created so much uncertainty. Companies weren’t going to invest in something where no one was sure of the future."

http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/italy/the-big-pro12-interview-can-it-keep-pace-with-the-premiership-and-top-14-53103#MKIevGUSzZALx3GD.99

.

Thanks for sharing that, I was almost certain he talked about it but couldn't remember where

The league being in continual flux doesn't help matters either, the Italians threatening to drop out, Aironi going bust and being replaced by Zebre, the SA franchises coming in, talk of Americans which won't happen now but companies don't know what they are investing in and that means they won't gamble with their money and reputation

Kingshu wrote:From then Pro12 Chairman Gerald Davies

Think he should have enough authority and knowledge on it

"The civil war between the WRU and the Regions went on for two years. It was a very unsettling, awkward time, which affected the television rights and sponsorship deals. It created so much uncertainty. Companies weren’t going to invest in something where no one was sure of the future."

http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/italy/the-big-pro12-interview-can-it-keep-pace-with-the-premiership-and-top-14-53103#MKIevGUSzZALx3GD.99

.

Thanks for confirming that the relationship between regions and WRU no longer has any detrimental affect on the pro14

Now we have people on board to move forward. There’s a certainty about the competition and we feel optimistic.

Not what was being said here a week ago....

war seems to be back on according to those very important Welsh Regional forum opinions. Even Lord said the cease fire had been only a truce...maybe to take the wounded off the field before battle recommenced?

SecretFly wrote:Not what was being said here a week ago....

war seems to be back on according to those very important Welsh Regional forum opinions.  Even Lord said the cease fire had been only a truce...maybe to take the wounded off the field before battle recommenced?

So that goes back to my question:

What nasty war is taken place in Wales at this very moment, and how is affecting the pro14?

The answer is : none, and it's not. You're just a liar and a coward secretfly.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Not what was being said here a week ago....

war seems to be back on according to those very important Welsh Regional forum opinions.  Even Lord said the cease fire had been only a truce...maybe to take the wounded off the field before battle recommenced?

So that goes back to my question:

What nasty war is taken place in Wales at this very moment, and how is affecting the pro14?

The answer is : none, and it's not. You're just a liar and a coward secretfly.

I hope some mods will be dealing with this appropriately

RugbyFan100 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Not what was being said here a week ago....

war seems to be back on according to those very important Welsh Regional forum opinions.  Even Lord said the cease fire had been only a truce...maybe to take the wounded off the field before battle recommenced?

So that goes back to my question:

What nasty war is taken place in Wales at this very moment, and how is affecting the pro14?

The answer is : none, and it's not. You're just a liar and a coward secretfly.

Ask Lord. The discussion is back there. Indeed, I'm sure you popped your 10 cents of opinion on the topic too. The 3 'free' Regions not liking it that the 4th Union protected one is seen to be getting more treats than them? You remember that discussion You remember the talk about the annoyance being all over the Region fan forums?

The battle begins again - and Lord agreed with my reading.

SecretFly wrote:
The battle begins again - and Lord agreed with my reading.

Whatever you say. You seem to know alot more about this " WRU V Regions battle" than anybody else. I look forward to the forthcoming regional statements, media wars, public spats, player release rows, participation agreement stalemates, Wales player exodus then - just as we saw in the late 2000s

Otherwise, you're going to look a bit foolish. Again.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
The battle begins again - and Lord agreed with my reading.

Whatever you say. You seem to know alot more about this " WRU V Regions battle" than anybody else. I look forward to the forthcoming regional statements, media wars, public spats, player release rows, participation agreement stalemates, Wales player exodus then - just as we saw in the late 2000s

Otherwise, you're going to look a bit foolish. Again.

Were you not the one harping on about the other 3 regions being unhappy about the Dragons funding and it breaking the PA? Though you would provide the details of where in the PA it breaks it

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
The battle begins again - and Lord agreed with my reading.

Whatever you say. You seem to know alot more about this " WRU V Regions battle" than anybody else. I look forward to the forthcoming regional statements, media wars, public spats, player release rows, participation agreement stalemates, Wales player exodus then - just as we saw in the late 2000s

Otherwise, you're going to look a bit foolish. Again.

Were you not the one harping on about the other 3 regions being unhappy about the Dragons funding and it breaking the PA? Though you would provide the details of where in the PA it breaks it

Yes they are.

How this constitutes a "war" that will devalue the league I'm not sure.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
The battle begins again - and Lord agreed with my reading.

Whatever you say. You seem to know alot more about this " WRU V Regions battle" than anybody else. I look forward to the forthcoming regional statements, media wars, public spats, player release rows, participation agreement stalemates, Wales player exodus then - just as we saw in the late 2000s

Otherwise, you're going to look a bit foolish. Again.

Were you not the one harping on about the other 3 regions being unhappy about the Dragons funding and it breaking the PA? Though you would provide the details of where in the PA it breaks it

Yes they are.

How this constitutes a "war" that will devalue the league I'm not sure.

So one said it was what they said was that they already had with their past issues

marty2086 wrote:

So one said it was what they said was that they already had with their past issues  

I can not make head nor tail of that sentence, sorry.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

So one said it was what they said was that they already had with their past issues  

I can not make head nor tail of that sentence, sorry.

I put it through Google translate into RugbyFan and that's what came out

The original sentence was

No one said it was, what they said was that they already had with their past issues

marty2086 wrote:

No one said it was, what they said was that they already had with their past issues

What does this mean then, given the pro14 has only been in existence a matter of months?

I'd personally say too that that endless war between Regions/Clubs and Union in Wales is a much bigger issue stalling Pro14 progress than the issue of getting a few more match officials in from Scotland and Italy.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
The battle begins again - and Lord agreed with my reading.

Whatever you say. You seem to know alot more about this " WRU V Regions battle" than anybody else. I look forward to the forthcoming regional statements, media wars, public spats, player release rows, participation agreement stalemates, Wales player exodus then - just as we saw in the late 2000s

Otherwise, you're going to look a bit foolish. Again.

The war between the Welsh fans and the regions is far more detrimental to the league...Just look at the truly embarrassing attendances the Ospreys have been getting this season. Where has all their fans gone or do they only turn up when the Ospreys Are doing Well?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

No one said it was, what they said was that they already had with their past issues

What does this mean then, given the pro14 has only been in existence a matter of months?

I'd personally say too that that endless war between Regions/Clubs and Union in Wales is a much bigger issue stalling Pro14 progress than the issue of getting a few more match officials in from Scotland and Italy.

Seriously? So someone didn't list the previous names for the competition?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
The war between the Welsh fans and the regions is far more detrimental to the league...Just look at the truly embarrassing attendances the Ospreys have been getting this season. Where has all their fans gone or do they only turn up when the Ospreys Are doing Well?

I assume you also think bringing the Kings into the competition was a backward step that has completely devalued the league then. Given their woeful attendances yes?

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

No one said it was, what they said was that they already had with their past issues

What does this mean then, given the pro14 has only been in existence a matter of months?

I'd personally say too that that endless war between Regions/Clubs and Union in Wales is a much bigger issue stalling Pro14 progress than the issue of getting a few more match officials in from Scotland and Italy.

Seriously? So someone didn't list the previous names for the competition?

You can't wriggle now Marty. You've been shown up yet again.

#squirm

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
The war between the Welsh fans and the regions is far more detrimental to the league...Just look at the truly embarrassing attendances the Ospreys have been getting this season. Where has all their fans gone or do they only turn up when the Ospreys Are doing Well?

I assume you also think bringing the Kings into the competition was a backward step that has completely devalued the league then. Given their woeful attendances yes?

Yes, they have been an epic failure but at least their attendances have always been woeful unlike the Ospreys who; for instance once got a crowd of over 10,000 against Ulster in a regular league game. The league needs a well supported Ospreys team.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

No one said it was, what they said was that they already had with their past issues

What does this mean then, given the pro14 has only been in existence a matter of months?

I'd personally say too that that endless war between Regions/Clubs and Union in Wales is a much bigger issue stalling Pro14 progress than the issue of getting a few more match officials in from Scotland and Italy.

Seriously? So someone didn't list the previous names for the competition?

You can't wriggle now Marty. You've been shown up yet again.

#squirm

Shown up by what exactly? You claim the other 3 regions have a problem with the Dragons takeover so yet again the WRU and Regions are falling out but because someone used the word war you say it doesn't count. You claim that because the Pro14 is only in existence a matter of months it limits when someone was talking about. You use semantics to try and score points, you try focusing on certain issues and timeframes because it suits your narrative when in reality the issues are wider in scope but you can't score points in your own mind so they don't matter to you

RugbyFan100 wrote:

I assume you also think bringing the Kings into the competition was a backward step that has completely devalued the league then. Given their woeful attendances yes?

They're new and thousands of miles away from the 'HOME' of the League.

Now, back to Ospreys, that are old to the competition and right slap bang in the middle of Pro14 home turf.

It's like a Father Ted sketch here but sometimes needs must.....

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
The war between the Welsh fans and the regions is far more detrimental to the league...Just look at the truly embarrassing attendances the Ospreys have been getting this season. Where has all their fans gone or do they only turn up when the Ospreys Are doing Well?

I assume you also think bringing the Kings into the competition was a backward step that has completely devalued the league then. Given their woeful attendances yes?

You mean attendances that are higher than both Italian teams and are higher than some Scottish and Welsh in some rounds?