The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

First topic message reminder :

Some of the Irish provinces seem to be doing fine.  Munster might be able to pay back a few shillings to Landsdowne HQ this season.  Leinster have finally started sharing. Connacht have survived Mr Grumpy and have managed another Challenge Cup quarter.  Could they make the final?
Ulster need a separate topic to cover all their issues.  Oh - and they have one.  

Italy.  Treviso are now Benetton and improving to the point of it being grudgingly admitted outside of Italy.  Zebre?  See Ulster above.  The FIR continue to fiddle the other unions while Rome burns.  

Scarlets on the other hand continue to see Byrne roam.  And sidestep.  The WRU must be grinning from ear to ear as Scarlets are simply steaming.   Who needs union monies when you can assemble a squad like this?  Top of their conference and finishing top of their pool in front of a packed house to gain a home quarterfinal in the Champions Cup. What more could you ask for?  Possibly a sneaky Welsh cap for Tadgh Beirne but little else to complain about.  If Gatland can harness the Scarlets, a la Leinster and Glasgow, and get Wales moving to the top in the Six Nations, the WRU might need to send a little more love (hard cash) over Llanelli way to encourage them further.  

Dragons got bought by the WRU.  And then hired an Irish coach. And then fixed their pitch.  And then things went so so.  And the jury went out on Jackman.  And then they started losing. A lot.  And then they had lots of announcements about new players for next season. And then they got knocked out of the Challenge Cup.  
And now it’s a wait for another season.  Not sure if the jury has come back in yet but Jackman has a battle on his hands.  

Ospreys continue to plumb new depths and eventually decided to fire their coach after failing in the Champions Cup once again.  Will they be in the Challenge Cup next season?

Cardiff have at least made the knockouts of the Challenge Cup but they’re still batting eyes at the WRU some say.  Will they succumb to the union’s clutches?

All the way down to Port Elizabeth for the new entrants.

The Southern Kings? See Zebre.  X 100.   Massive squad revamp needed and SARU investment.

Cheetahs?   Just when they’d notched another triumph on their league bedpost, came the news that another of their players had been nicked for another SR side. Their top try scorer is leaving too.  They’ve 8 wins in the bag, can they get a few more to make it into the playoffs?  

And finally the Scots.  Cockerill is definitely making inroads and if it doesn’t happen this season, they’ll be making life difficult in 2018/19 for a few of the higher up clubs. Their sassy and classy neighbours look strong prospects for the Championship title with a single loss so far.   Not too long ago, the SRU was making plaintive noises about the costs of running the two clubs and seeking private investors.  Then they went quiet.  Then they announced a profit for the first time in a long while.  And investment in academy is starting to pay off.  And the Test team isn’t doing too shabby either.  SRU CEO, Mark Dodson, says long term objective is to secure external investment to ensure the future of the game.  

We’ve had the first inkling of a change and expected increase in TV revenues for the Championship with EirSport announced as the new broadcaster for games in the Irish territory.  Anayi & Co still have to deliver a substantial increase on previous revenues.  The SARU/SuperSport deal has ensured part of that with a reported 36m six-year agreement.   What will GB deliver?

Private investment and Union control/money.  Will a happy marriage eventually be reached?

The SRU have explicitly said they want a stake in an English club. Newcastle are their current club of interest after Worcester fell through.

They want to build a de facto third region. The acquisition of an English club would give them a top tier team to move their top players to, like Russell, while not lumbering the club with the extortionate wages. Reading between the lines, the SRU will probably cover some through their books, which might cause a problem with the salary cap or the other clubs at least.

Eyelashes are being fluttered across the Irish Sea with newly-appointed technical consultant with London Irish Declan Kidney saying that he would be open to forming a new partnership with the IRFU.

"My understanding was that things were very close before," the former Ireland boss said.  "When it was set up there was a massive Irish influence around the club and since then it has become more (diverse).  Ideally, if we can be of any assistance at all we would only be too delighted - but the IRFU have enough of a task in looking after the four provinces without having to look after us in any way.  If we can help out, Les (Kiss) and myself will be only too happy to do that."

Think we've heard this before from LI honchos.

It makes less sense for the Irish than it does for the Scottish, with 4 provinces and strong finances the Irish don't need to ship players out. That may change over the next few years though, with LI likely to get relegated, sending out a handful of young players to the Championship for a season to get more games might work. If the Irish and other Pro14 clubs can't close the financial gap then it may be an avenue to retaining players within the power of the IRFU while being able to pay them bigger wages.

I'd like to see investment from the IRFU in a MLR team, it would afford young players a run of games in the summer and give them a chance to come into provinces sharp and ready to hit the ground and impress at the start of a season

Pot Hale wrote:Eyelashes are being fluttered across the Irish Sea with newly-appointed technical consultant with London Irish Declan Kidney saying that he would be open to forming a new partnership with the IRFU.

"My understanding was that things were very close before," the former Ireland boss said.  "When it was set up there was a massive Irish influence around the club and since then it has become more (diverse).  Ideally, if we can be of any assistance at all we would only be too delighted - but the IRFU have enough of a task in looking after the four provinces without having to look after us in any way.  If we can help out, Les (Kiss) and myself will be only too happy to do that."

Think we've heard this before from LI honchos.

I can't remember the details but I distinctly remember listening to my car radio one bleak wintry night some years ago as I waited to pick up a family member.  I was listening to the then Head of London Irish on Irish radio.  It was directed at his team being in the HEC that year and he was talking about London Irish and about the connections to Ireland and he was saying he hoped that Irish people would get behind his side and support them on their journey through the competition.  

And I remember sitting there laughing at the balls on the man.  Leinster and other Provinces were also in that contest and here was I sitting in a town in Leinster, so proud of the Irish players having another good shot at a title and here is a guy in England, not seemingly conscious that we have our own domestic allegiances here, with mostly English or players from other nationalities on his team at the time (I checked) asking Irish people to get behind his English team.
I just felt it bizarre that a 'name'  might be seen as enough to keep Irish rugby fans happy.

I wouldn't mind sending across some excess players to London Irish to see what Kidney might make of them - but I'd still insist on them coming home to an Irish Province if they wanted to be selected for the Irish International team.  Irish International players must assist the continued health of rugby in their own Nation.  Four strong Provinces would always give enough players to uncover an International squad (we're doing that now with a few Provinces operating below top form).  

The two strands are necessary.  Irish Provincial success leading into Irish International success - both strands helping each other to make Irish rugby fans more than onlookers in all the main rugby contests ('Club' and International).

So caution on any London Irish link up. We don't want a sizeable number of our Internationals coming into Ireland camp off a plane from London.

That's if their even Irish.

Clearly remember playing in Reading and Irish fans being, pretty obnoxious it has to be said, saying we were not a true Irish side, unlike themselves.
I turned round to a couple of them and pointed out 12 of our team were born in Ireland whilst it was only 2 were on their side.
That did not improve their humour or their behaviour

SecretFly wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Eyelashes are being fluttered across the Irish Sea with newly-appointed technical consultant with London Irish Declan Kidney saying that he would be open to forming a new partnership with the IRFU.

"My understanding was that things were very close before," the former Ireland boss said.  "When it was set up there was a massive Irish influence around the club and since then it has become more (diverse).  Ideally, if we can be of any assistance at all we would only be too delighted - but the IRFU have enough of a task in looking after the four provinces without having to look after us in any way.  If we can help out, Les (Kiss) and myself will be only too happy to do that."

Think we've heard this before from LI honchos.

I can't remember the details but I distinctly remember listening to my car radio one bleak wintry night some years ago as I waited to pick up a family member.  I was listening to the then Head of London Irish on Irish radio.  It was directed at his team being in the HEC that year and he was talking about London Irish and about the connections to Ireland and he was saying he hoped that Irish people would get behind his side and support them on their journey through the competition.  

And I remember sitting there laughing at the balls on the man.  Leinster and other Provinces were also in that contest and here was I sitting in a town in Leinster, so proud of the Irish players having another good shot at a title and here is a guy in England, not seemingly conscious that we have our own domestic allegiances here, with mostly English or players from other nationalities on his team at the time (I checked) asking Irish people to get behind his English team.
I just felt it bizarre that a 'name'  might be seen as enough to keep Irish rugby fans happy.

I wouldn't mind sending across some excess players to London Irish to see what Kidney might make of them - but I'd still insist on them coming home to an Irish Province if they wanted to be selected for the Irish International team.  Irish International players must assist the continued health of rugby in their own Nation.  Four strong Provinces would always give enough players to uncover an International squad (we're doing that now with a few Provinces operating below top form).  

The two strands are necessary.  Irish Provincial success leading into Irish International success - both strands helping each other to make Irish rugby fans more than onlookers in all the main rugby contests ('Club' and International).

So caution on any London Irish link up.  We don't want a sizeable number of our Internationals coming into Ireland camp off a plane from London.

Indeed, Fly.  You may know this already, that the IRFU has got five branches, not four as the provinces might indicate.  The fifth branch is the Irish Exiles branch operating in the UK.   Last year, they got a fillip with the launch of IQ Rugby headed up by Joe Lydon and a couple of doughty Irish rugby heads - Wayne Mitchell and Kevin Maggs - to track and identify Irish-qualified players and coaches with a view to bringing them 'home' if their pot came to the boil nicely.   LI have always flirted with the notion that they serve as the Exiles team and in truth largely filled that role in their Sunbury amateur-filled days.   Crossan and the latest enfilade of Irish business-types who want to buy into the club may still harbour these notions, particularly with the appointment of Kidney, and erstwhile Irishman, Les McKiss.  If memory serves me correctly, there's approx 50 Irish players of varying quality plying their trade in England in Championship and Premiership clubs.  If Kidney and the club's backers want to create LI as a born-again home-away-from-home destination for Irish qualified players, they've a fair bit of work to do. But they need and are looking for a formal imprimatur, hence the name-dropping by Bob Casey (likely your guy on the radio) of being in contact with Nucifora and Schmidt and them visiting the club.  

I'm in wait and see mode.

PS Meanwhile, Connacht remain in Australian pursuit mode announcing the signings of Kyle Godwin from Brumbies, and David Horowitz, out half from the Rebels for next season. Either the UK-based IQ talent pool is tapped out in terms of quality or the salaries/attractions aren't good enough out west. It's an interesting switch by Keane to move away from the NZ player bias that's been there up to now.

The exiles thing is an interesting one. Wales has an exiles programme too. Been around a while. In the last few weeks there’s been a bit of argument back and forth between England and Wales (what’s new!) about poaching. England not happy that the exiles programme is identifying players with Welsh heritage and enticing them to Wales. Wales’ counter argument is that a lot of these players are being enticed to England in the first place with the offer of scholarships at fee paying schools such as Colstons, or colleges such as Hartpury (Ross Moriaty and the Vunipolas did this I think). Truth in both arguments, but there’s signs of tension there.

So for me what’s interesting in these latest announcements and ideas is how the English will react to having partnerships with two unions and two of its sides, plus the Welsh Exiles programme, with tug of wars inevitably becoming more frequent. While the idea would be for the Scottish and Irish to ‘place’ players with the English sides to get experience there’s a) bound to be times when players are unearthed at these clubs with Irish or Scottish heritage and are ‘poached’ by the unions rather than having sent there to get game time, and b) it will be a difficult situation for the clubs (Newcastle or Irish) as they’ve surely got a remit to develop players for team England? I seem to remember when Wales discussed partnering or investing in London Welsh that an article (perhaps BBC) quoted the then RFU chairman (I think) who stated outright that you can’t have a club in the English system that develops players for another union/nation, and that they get their payments from the RFU (as part of whatever their participation agreement is called) to develop players for England.

So it’ll be interesting to see how this goes in terms of the RFU and whether they like it and OK it, and in terms of those clubs who partner and how they get it past the RFU. I’d love to be a fly on the wall of those initial meetings!

The Oracle wrote:The exiles thing is an interesting one. Wales has an exiles programme too. Been around a while. In the last few weeks there’s been a bit of argument back and forth between England and Wales (what’s new!) about poaching. England not happy that the exiles programme is identifying players with Welsh heritage and enticing them to Wales. Wales’ counter argument is that a lot of these players are being enticed to England in the first place with the offer of scholarships at fee paying schools such as Colstons, or colleges such as Hartpury (Ross Moriaty and the Vunipolas did this I think). Truth in both arguments, but there’s signs of tension there.

So for me what’s interesting in these latest announcements and ideas is how the English will react to having partnerships with two unions and two of its sides, plus the Welsh Exiles programme, with tug of wars inevitably becoming more frequent. While the idea would be for the Scottish and Irish to ‘place’ players with the English sides to get experience there’s a) bound to be times when players are unearthed at these clubs with Irish or Scottish heritage and are ‘poached’ by the unions rather than having sent there to get game time, and b) it will be a difficult situation for the clubs (Newcastle or Irish) as they’ve surely got a remit to develop players for team England? I seem to remember when Wales discussed partnering or investing in London Welsh that an article (perhaps BBC) quoted the then RFU chairman (I think) who stated outright that you can’t have a club in the English system that develops players for another union/nation, and that they get their payments from the RFU (as part of whatever their participation agreement is called) to develop players for England.

So it’ll be interesting to see how this goes in terms of the RFU and whether they like it and OK it, and in terms of those clubs who partner and how they get it past the RFU. I’d love to be a fly on the wall of those initial meetings!

Thanks Oracle.
I had read a bit about the war of words following the appointment of someone from WRU to officially head up this programme. In some ways, it’s an inevitable consequence of the high salary market for precious revenues to be diverted into the relevant union-qualified pathways. The English RFU’s main complaint seemed to Centre around compensation for the initial development of the player saying that the current agreed payment (5k) was insufficient.

Is that £5k a universal payment? I.e. paid by all nations ‘poaching’ players? If not then perhaps it needs to be. The England/Wales thing is not too dissimilar to the NZ/PI thing, with families moving to the bigger country for work and opportunities and youngsters being signed up on scholarships. Maybe World Rugby needs to look at enforcing a standard fee for nations selecting players who have been developed elsewhere. Not sure I like the idea, but it’s the only fair way I suppose.

English scouts are always in Wales checking out young Welsh players.

They filled out a whole stand at the PS not so long ago when the regional age grade finals were there.

That’s lazy journalism, LD. I’m sure you’ll find lots of Welsh scouts in the English game too. It’s not just one way. We’ve got a whole programme dedicated to it.

The Oracle wrote:That’s lazy journalism, LD. I’m sure you’ll find lots of Welsh scouts in the English game too. It’s not just one way. We’ve got a whole programme dedicated to it.

Never said it was one way did I ?

All I am saying is, that English scouts are constantly in Wales looking for players.

Filled a whole stand?

How many roughly? And how can you tell they're English Scouts? Do they wear feathers in their hair?

SecretFly wrote:Filled a whole stand?  

How many roughly?  And how can you tell they're English Scouts?  Do they wear feathers in their hair?

Here yo u go SF:-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wru-chiefs-hit-back-strongly-13800820

Just to add also, I have seen these scouts, and been introduced to one or two when watching Merthyr in the Welsh premiership.

It's no secret, they are here all the time.

Nowhere did it say a stand full of scouts, did it?

“You looked up in the stand and there were all these scouts from England there.“

This does not mean that you look up and all of the stand was English scouts! Comprehension, LD, comprehension!

The Oracle wrote:Nowhere did it say a stand full of scouts, did it?

If you want to be your usual  pedantic self then fine, change of name, but still the same old member, I was referring to this:-

“You looked up in the stand and there were all these scouts from England there. wrote:

I suggest you worry about that shambles of a region you support. By far and away the worst coached Dragons side I have ever watched in my life, and people pay to watch that crap.

LordDowlais wrote:

The Oracle wrote:Nowhere did it say a stand full of scouts, did it?

If you want to be your usual  pedantic self then fine, change of name, but still the same old member, I was referring to this:-





I suggest you worry about that shambles of a region you support. By far and away the worst coached Dragons side I have ever watched in my life, and people pay to watch that crap.

What has your babyish rant on a Dragons thread got to do with this thread and the chat about the wrangles between club and country?

Because I get fed up with people always trying to win the internet over semantics. Something you always try to do.

Well congratulations you've won it off me tonight.

Anyway.  It's more complications.

You can maybe appreciate that Wales and Scotland and Ireland might feel a need to fill a few holes in their team make-up by perhaps looking to England (amongst other places) to unearth potentially qualified players.

I can't for the life of me see why England feel so compelled to chase after players from Wales.  Surely they have more than enough players coming through youth levels each year that have all the traits they might be looking for in young players that have the potential to develop into great club players or Internationals?
I can't see why England can't concentrate on their own home based young players and do their selecting and free scholarship stuff with those.

Or is there another side to this?  If you hoover up some of the most promising outside players, well then you make life more difficult for outside teams/competitors.  You don't have to use them - but if you make them commit, then that ensures you're not going to meet them in 5 or 10 years time at a WC or in the 6N.

I wouldn't say that's what is happening but neither for a moment would I say it's not happening.  Rugby is big business, lots of money to be gained or lost on the game through sponsorship, broadcasting right etc.  Long term thinking and cold doctrines are not beyond the probable when winning is so essential to profit.

It’s not semantics. You exaggerated to try to make the situation much worse than it was to strengthen your argument. You do it often enough and people just don’t believe what you have to say anymore. “You’ll have to take what LD says with a pinch of salt”. It’s like the boy who cried wolf.

Ignore it Oracle. Waste of time - never reads anything properly.

As I understand it, the payment operates between the British and Irish teams/unions. Not sure if it’s universal or WR endorsed.  

As regards Fly’s comment/query, it would look like neighboring clubs benefit from Welsh/English dual-qualified players more than most - understandably.  Given the relative close-knitted nature of the four unions, not surprising that there’s a lot of to and fro amongst dual qualified players, hence the only argument put forth is about proper compensation for development of the player.   Not sure what the criteria for this are.  For example if a young Irish player decides to up sticks and head across to England in pursuit of a better contract, is that the English RFU’s problem or the Irish RFU’s for letting him go?    Trying to prove poaching versus seeking opportunity is a grey area.

The future of the Pro-15 is absolutely feiced with useless referee's like Mitreas in the Munster v Scarlets game. Proper disgrace.

That was a horrendous call by the ref, he just placed the ball

I just do not understand it, why...

This is an absolute joke if he disallows this try...

Just had a message from a mate at the game, hes a Scarlets fan. He's asking who on the Munster team fu*ked the refs wife.
Is he that bad?

carpet baboon wrote:Just had a message from a mate at the game, hes a Scarlets fan. He's asking who on the Munster team fu*ked the refs wife.
Is he that bad?

He has not been great but he has made some very poor decisions.

Mitrea was fine I thought except for not punishing the trip and not overruling the tmo for the disallowed Cronin try.

Where are Cardiff playing next season? It's a shame they are leaving the CAP.

The Championship is cooking up nicely with the run in to the new playoff finals.

English newspapers seem to be agog with the ‘Celtic Renaissance’ as the Guardian termed it.

Overall, the new competition seems to have a positive step in the right direction. The new TV deal is still not clear except that we know there’ll be some new broadcasters next year. No word as yet on what it’ll mean in terms of increased revenues.

The private club owner model is taking a bit of a beating with recent news about Remgro stepping out of the Saracens picture, and Wray taking up the slack. The Irish player management model on playing time through centralizing player contracts is taking further root to the point where it’s being openly discussed as a better alternative for the Premiership.

More interesting times ahead and a good few bends in the road still.

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk/analysis/attendance_vs_population.php

Interesting stats, population v attendance. Was going to put a thread up for this, and then remember this thread.

Pot Hale wrote:The Championship is cooking up nicely with the run in to the new playoff finals.  

English newspapers seem to be agog with the ‘Celtic Renaissance’ as the Guardian termed it.  

Overall, the new competition seems to have a positive step in the right direction.  The new TV deal is still not clear except that we know there’ll be some new broadcasters next year.  No word as yet on what it’ll mean in terms of increased revenues.  

The private club owner model is taking a bit of a beating with recent news about Remgro stepping out of the Saracens picture, and Wray taking up the slack.   The Irish player management model on playing time through centralizing player contracts is taking further root to the point where it’s being openly discussed as a better alternative for the Premiership.  

More interesting times ahead and a good few bends in the road still.

There definitely seems to be more teams with something left to play for than this point last season.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk/analysis/attendance_vs_population.php

Interesting stats, population v attendance.  Was going to put a thread up for this, and then remember this thread.

Hmm. Somewhat flawed in glancing at a couple of figures.  Leinster’s average is not 19k.  That’s bumped by games in the Aviva.  The average home attendance of the four Irish provinces is closer to 12.5-13k.  

I haven’t done attendance figures for this season yet but it’ll be interesting if there’s been any increases and where. Ulster down, Scarlets and Leinster up will probably be a few of them.

Pot Hale wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk/analysis/attendance_vs_population.php

Interesting stats, population v attendance.  Was going to put a thread up for this, and then remember this thread.

Hmm. Somewhat flawed in glancing at a couple of figures.  Leinster’s average is not 19k.  That’s bumped by games in the Aviva.  The average home attendance of the four Irish provinces is closer to 12.5-13k.  

I haven’t done attendance figures for this season yet but it’ll be interesting if there’s been any increases and where.  Ulster down, Scarlets and Leinster up will probably be a few of them.

It doesn’t take into account full geographic areas, and fans who live outside the areas that travel ‘home’ for games either. Although it’s not a bad fist at it in fairness, and kinda helps show that the whole ‘lack off support’ arguments levelled at some quarters is a bit off the mark.

Very interesting Scarlet - thanks for posting.

Yes thanks ScarletSpiderman. That's an interesting summary.

I do think that if you included a thirty kilometer radius in the notion of local (not too far for many fans to drive/ bus to watch a match) then this would change the order and percentages greatly though. Leinster for example would have closer to a million people "locally" using that criteria and I'd be interested to see how the order and percentages on this chart/ list would change.

Agreed to make this useful you need the same distance from the grounds that is employed to all teams

Also what it will always do is suggest teams from smaller locations get a 'better' turnout e.g. the top 8 all have a population of less than 100,000
The bottom nine all have a population of over 1million

They simply aren't comparable

Distance alone won't cut it though, some have better infrastructure like roads and public transport to help get to games. Some games as well are better scheduled to allow more to attend

geoff999rugby wrote:Agreed to make this useful you need the same distance from the grounds that is employed to all teams

Also what it will always do is suggest teams from smaller locations get a 'better' turnout e.g. the top 8 all have a population of less than 100,000
The bottom nine all have a population of over 1million

They simply aren't comparable

That’s all very true.

But seeing as the general one brought up on here is how the regions don’t have the fans and attendances are lower than the provinces etc, it was a useful too to show that if you look population-wise it’s not as bad as it’s nade out

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Agreed to make this useful you need the same distance from the grounds that is employed to all teams

Also what it will always do is suggest teams from smaller locations get a 'better' turnout e.g. the top 8 all have a population of less than 100,000
The bottom nine all have a population of over 1million

They simply aren't comparable

That’s all very true.

But seeing as the general one brought up on here is how the regions don’t have the fans and attendances are lower than the provinces etc, it was a useful too to show that if you look population-wise it’s not as bad as it’s nade out

In fairness, that point has been made already a number of times, ScarletSpiderman.   Ireland 6.3m with 531,496 and Wales 3.1m with 355,180 tells the same story. (11 home game attendances in PRO12 last season).

Pot - true. Most points on here get made numerous times though. Like sides not respecting the league sending second strong sides to games

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Pot - true.  Most points on here get made numerous times though.  Like sides not respecting the league sending second strong sides to games

Lol. Touché.

Brilliant win for Benetton. How did Scarlets get on against Edinburgh with their first string side then?

Benetton have 11 wins, beat Zebre and up to 12 or 60% win rate.

Allan after talked about how the mentality has changed. Will be interesting to see what group they get in the Challenge Cup. I take it they will be second seeds from the Pro14

They seem to play more heads up rugby. When do we get the new Conferences. It definitely will added to the anticipation for next year

Pot Hale wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Pot - true.  Most points on here get made numerous times though.  Like sides not respecting the league sending second strong sides to games

Lol. Touché.

Brilliant win for Benetton. How did Scarlets get on against Edinburgh with their first string side then?  

Going by the score lots of running rugby as you'd expect from Scarlets teams. Sadly they were running to the half way and then back to their try line all game

Pot Hale wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Pot - true.  Most points on here get made numerous times though.  Like sides not respecting the league sending second strong sides to games

Lol. Touché.

Brilliant win for Benetton. How did Scarlets get on against Edinburgh with their first string side then?  

I had t seen the Benetton score, my comment was aimed at the Edinburgh result. I don’t feel so bad about seeing a half century out on us now.

Brendan wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Pot - true.  Most points on here get made numerous times though.  Like sides not respecting the league sending second strong sides to games

Lol. Touché.

Brilliant win for Benetton. How did Scarlets get on against Edinburgh with their first string side then?  

Going by the score lots of running rugby as you'd expect from Scarlets teams.  Sadly they were running to the half way and then back to their try line all game

Not sure we even manage to run to our try line before they scored lol

Brendan wrote:Benetton have 11 wins, beat Zebre and up to 12 or 60% win rate.

Allan after talked about how the mentality has changed.  Will be interesting to see what group they get in the Challenge Cup. I take it they will be second seeds from the Pro14

They seem to play more heads up rugby.  When do we get the new Conferences.  It definitely will added to the anticipation for next year

Season isn’t over yet. Benetton have their derby match as you say. They’re one point behind Ulster for 4th spot. Will Ulster beat Glasgow and Munster?

However, Benetton should have kept going at the end instead of kicking out on the 80. They had a bonus point in their grasp. They may regret not going for it.

Pot Hale wrote:

Brendan wrote:Benetton have 11 wins, beat Zebre and up to 12 or 60% win rate.

Allan after talked about how the mentality has changed.  Will be interesting to see what group they get in the Challenge Cup. I take it they will be second seeds from the Pro14

They seem to play more heads up rugby.  When do we get the new Conferences.  It definitely will added to the anticipation for next year

Season isn’t over yet.  Benetton have their derby match as you say.   They’re one point behind Ulster for 4th spot.   Will Ulster beat Glasgow and Munster?  

However, Benetton should have kept going at the end instead of kicking out on the 80. They had a bonus point in their grasp.  They may regret not going for it.  

I was wondering about that as well. They could have kept going for the 4th. But I guess in their eyes they wanted the win first.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk/analysis/attendance_vs_population.php

Interesting stats, population v attendance.  Was going to put a thread up for this, and then remember this thread.

Hmm. Somewhat flawed in glancing at a couple of figures.  Leinster’s average is not 19k.  That’s bumped by games in the Aviva.  The average home attendance of the four Irish provinces is closer to 12.5-13k.  

I haven’t done attendance figures for this season yet but it’ll be interesting if there’s been any increases and where.  Ulster down, Scarlets and Leinster up will probably be a few of them.

It doesn’t take into account full geographic areas, and fans who live outside the areas that travel ‘home’ for games either.  Although it’s not a bad fist at it in fairness, and kinda helps show that the whole ‘lack off support’ arguments levelled at some quarters is a bit off the mark.

It's just an extremely blunt and nigh on worthless piece of fun. I wouldn't take it too seriously, trust me.