The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

First topic message reminder :

Some of the Irish provinces seem to be doing fine.  Munster might be able to pay back a few shillings to Landsdowne HQ this season.  Leinster have finally started sharing. Connacht have survived Mr Grumpy and have managed another Challenge Cup quarter.  Could they make the final?
Ulster need a separate topic to cover all their issues.  Oh - and they have one.  

Italy.  Treviso are now Benetton and improving to the point of it being grudgingly admitted outside of Italy.  Zebre?  See Ulster above.  The FIR continue to fiddle the other unions while Rome burns.  

Scarlets on the other hand continue to see Byrne roam.  And sidestep.  The WRU must be grinning from ear to ear as Scarlets are simply steaming.   Who needs union monies when you can assemble a squad like this?  Top of their conference and finishing top of their pool in front of a packed house to gain a home quarterfinal in the Champions Cup. What more could you ask for?  Possibly a sneaky Welsh cap for Tadgh Beirne but little else to complain about.  If Gatland can harness the Scarlets, a la Leinster and Glasgow, and get Wales moving to the top in the Six Nations, the WRU might need to send a little more love (hard cash) over Llanelli way to encourage them further.  

Dragons got bought by the WRU.  And then hired an Irish coach. And then fixed their pitch.  And then things went so so.  And the jury went out on Jackman.  And then they started losing. A lot.  And then they had lots of announcements about new players for next season. And then they got knocked out of the Challenge Cup.  
And now it’s a wait for another season.  Not sure if the jury has come back in yet but Jackman has a battle on his hands.  

Ospreys continue to plumb new depths and eventually decided to fire their coach after failing in the Champions Cup once again.  Will they be in the Challenge Cup next season?

Cardiff have at least made the knockouts of the Challenge Cup but they’re still batting eyes at the WRU some say.  Will they succumb to the union’s clutches?

All the way down to Port Elizabeth for the new entrants.

The Southern Kings? See Zebre.  X 100.   Massive squad revamp needed and SARU investment.

Cheetahs?   Just when they’d notched another triumph on their league bedpost, came the news that another of their players had been nicked for another SR side. Their top try scorer is leaving too.  They’ve 8 wins in the bag, can they get a few more to make it into the playoffs?  

And finally the Scots.  Cockerill is definitely making inroads and if it doesn’t happen this season, they’ll be making life difficult in 2018/19 for a few of the higher up clubs. Their sassy and classy neighbours look strong prospects for the Championship title with a single loss so far.   Not too long ago, the SRU was making plaintive noises about the costs of running the two clubs and seeking private investors.  Then they went quiet.  Then they announced a profit for the first time in a long while.  And investment in academy is starting to pay off.  And the Test team isn’t doing too shabby either.  SRU CEO, Mark Dodson, says long term objective is to secure external investment to ensure the future of the game.  

We’ve had the first inkling of a change and expected increase in TV revenues for the Championship with EirSport announced as the new broadcaster for games in the Irish territory.  Anayi & Co still have to deliver a substantial increase on previous revenues.  The SARU/SuperSport deal has ensured part of that with a reported 36m six-year agreement.   What will GB deliver?

Private investment and Union control/money.  Will a happy marriage eventually be reached?

Clear troll.

TJ wrote:oracle - no I just understand what is going on somewhat better than you do and am fed up of the welsh fans claiming they are hard done by financially when its clear they are not.

Who’s claiming we’re hard done by?

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
So what Leinster players have been forced to move elsewhere? Jordi Murphy himself said he sought the move to Ulster himself to try guarantee his place at the world cup dues to the log jam in the backrow at Leinster.

You keep saying Leinster spend loads of money... I know they do hence why Sexton is one of the best paid players I  world rugby with the help from the IRFU. You still haven't explained how Leinster could compete financially on their own. If your suggesting a sugar daddy comes in and throws his checkbook around; I'm sure I can speak for every Leinster fan and say no thanks. Leinster is spending near the salary cap thanks to the IRFU.

I didn't claim any individual had been FORCED to move elsewhere.

If Leinster were on their own, in private ownership, they could spend more money.

I never understand the Irish mentality that wouldn't want private ownership. Especially when so many of that mindset follow pro soccer.

Have you seen the state of pro soccer in Ireland? That is not the example to follow. Rugby follows the GAA template, the most successful amateur sports organisation in the world.

Sin é wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
So what Leinster players have been forced to move elsewhere? Jordi Murphy himself said he sought the move to Ulster himself to try guarantee his place at the world cup dues to the log jam in the backrow at Leinster.

You keep saying Leinster spend loads of money... I know they do hence why Sexton is one of the best paid players I  world rugby with the help from the IRFU. You still haven't explained how Leinster could compete financially on their own. If your suggesting a sugar daddy comes in and throws his checkbook around; I'm sure I can speak for every Leinster fan and say no thanks. Leinster is spending near the salary cap thanks to the IRFU.

I didn't claim any individual had been FORCED to move elsewhere.

If Leinster were on their own, in private ownership, they could spend more money.

I never understand the Irish mentality that wouldn't want private ownership. Especially when so many of that mindset follow pro soccer.

Have you seen the state of pro soccer in Ireland? That is not the example to follow. Rugby follows the GAA template, the most successful amateur sports organisation in the world.

Professional rugby in Ireland follows an amateur template?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
So what Leinster players have been forced to move elsewhere? Jordi Murphy himself said he sought the move to Ulster himself to try guarantee his place at the world cup dues to the log jam in the backrow at Leinster.

You keep saying Leinster spend loads of money... I know they do hence why Sexton is one of the best paid players I  world rugby with the help from the IRFU. You still haven't explained how Leinster could compete financially on their own. If your suggesting a sugar daddy comes in and throws his checkbook around; I'm sure I can speak for every Leinster fan and say no thanks. Leinster is spending near the salary cap thanks to the IRFU.

I didn't claim any individual had been FORCED to move elsewhere.

If Leinster were on their own, in private ownership, they could spend more money.

I never understand the Irish mentality that wouldn't want private ownership. Especially when so many of that mindset follow pro soccer.

Have you seen the state of pro soccer in Ireland? That is not the example to follow. Rugby follows the GAA template, the most successful amateur sports organisation in the world.

Professional rugby in Ireland follows an amateur template?

Yes - representative of where you are from. Same structures as well with regard to the Provinces (Provincial Councils for the four). Thats why people find it easy to get behind their Province in Ireland - its where you are from. Pro/semi Pro Soccer in Ireland is based on clubs in towns (which are generally smallish) and haven't a hope with competing with the GAA as its a community based organisation. The professionalism of the GAA county players, many of whom are top class sports people, despite not getting paid for playing also puts a check on the excesses of the pro rugby players.

Sin é wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
So what Leinster players have been forced to move elsewhere? Jordi Murphy himself said he sought the move to Ulster himself to try guarantee his place at the world cup dues to the log jam in the backrow at Leinster.

You keep saying Leinster spend loads of money... I know they do hence why Sexton is one of the best paid players I  world rugby with the help from the IRFU. You still haven't explained how Leinster could compete financially on their own. If your suggesting a sugar daddy comes in and throws his checkbook around; I'm sure I can speak for every Leinster fan and say no thanks. Leinster is spending near the salary cap thanks to the IRFU.

I didn't claim any individual had been FORCED to move elsewhere.

If Leinster were on their own, in private ownership, they could spend more money.

I never understand the Irish mentality that wouldn't want private ownership. Especially when so many of that mindset follow pro soccer.

Have you seen the state of pro soccer in Ireland? That is not the example to follow. Rugby follows the GAA template, the most successful amateur sports organisation in the world.

Professional rugby in Ireland follows an amateur template?

Yes - representative of where you are from. Same structures as well with regard to the Provinces (Provincial Councils for the four). Thats why people find it easy to get behind their Province in Ireland - its where you are from. Pro/semi Pro Soccer in Ireland is based on clubs in towns (which are generally smallish) and haven't a hope with competing with the GAA as its a community based organisation. The professionalism of the GAA county players, many of whom are top class sports people, despite not getting paid for playing also puts a check on the excesses of the pro rugby players.

Oh, I thought you meant how the entire sports are operated, governed and funded.

Sin é wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
So what Leinster players have been forced to move elsewhere? Jordi Murphy himself said he sought the move to Ulster himself to try guarantee his place at the world cup dues to the log jam in the backrow at Leinster.

You keep saying Leinster spend loads of money... I know they do hence why Sexton is one of the best paid players I  world rugby with the help from the IRFU. You still haven't explained how Leinster could compete financially on their own. If your suggesting a sugar daddy comes in and throws his checkbook around; I'm sure I can speak for every Leinster fan and say no thanks. Leinster is spending near the salary cap thanks to the IRFU.

I didn't claim any individual had been FORCED to move elsewhere.

If Leinster were on their own, in private ownership, they could spend more money.

I never understand the Irish mentality that wouldn't want private ownership. Especially when so many of that mindset follow pro soccer.

Have you seen the state of pro soccer in Ireland? That is not the example to follow. Rugby follows the GAA template, the most successful amateur sports organisation in the world.

You're best ignoring Phil he bleats on about private ownership yet never grasps it isn't the be all and end all. His beloved Blues are owned privately yet can't spend more money, they need to go to the WRU with the begging bowl, have lost their coach because they won't invest in the squad and cancelled contracts they could no longer afford.

Weren't he and other complaining about the disparity in spending too with Leinster being quoted at 9m, so they apparently outspend everyone else in the league but could spend more if owned privately and yet there's no logical reason given as to why.

I mean it's not like either entity is run at the discretion of those who fund it and rely on them having sufficient funds to assist, not to mention that those running the operations have the knowledge to put it to good use

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
So what Leinster players have been forced to move elsewhere? Jordi Murphy himself said he sought the move to Ulster himself to try guarantee his place at the world cup dues to the log jam in the backrow at Leinster.

You keep saying Leinster spend loads of money... I know they do hence why Sexton is one of the best paid players I  world rugby with the help from the IRFU. You still haven't explained how Leinster could compete financially on their own. If your suggesting a sugar daddy comes in and throws his checkbook around; I'm sure I can speak for every Leinster fan and say no thanks. Leinster is spending near the salary cap thanks to the IRFU.

I didn't claim any individual had been FORCED to move elsewhere.

If Leinster were on their own, in private ownership, they could spend more money.

I never understand the Irish mentality that wouldn't want private ownership. Especially when so many of that mindset follow pro soccer.

Have you seen the state of pro soccer in Ireland? That is not the example to follow. Rugby follows the GAA template, the most successful amateur sports organisation in the world.

Professional rugby in Ireland follows an amateur template?

Yes - representative of where you are from. Same structures as well with regard to the Provinces (Provincial Councils for the four). Thats why people find it easy to get behind their Province in Ireland - its where you are from. Pro/semi Pro Soccer in Ireland is based on clubs in towns (which are generally smallish) and haven't a hope with competing with the GAA as its a community based organisation. The professionalism of the GAA county players, many of whom are top class sports people, despite not getting paid for playing also puts a check on the excesses of the pro rugby players.

Oh, I thought you meant how the entire sports are operated, governed and funded.

Actually, they are similar operated and governed. GAA is funded mainly by income from ticket sales including concerts, conferences etc. in Croke Park, media sales and sponsorship go to centrally fund the organisation. GAA HQ then distributes funds (approx. €60 million annually) to the county boards. Instead of paying players, the GAA invests heavily in infrastructure (which is why every village and town in Ireland has a GAA club with a decent clubhouse).

The County's and Clubs all have other stuff going on with regard to sponsorship etc. to generate an income - very simlilar to how the Provinces operate, but operates the same as the IRFU with Aviva & international income. I'd say the County Boards probably have more of a say in how they are run than say the Provinces do.

Sin é wrote:

Actually, they are similar operated and governed.

GAA HQ then distributes funds (approx. €60 million annually) to the county boards. Instead of paying players, the GAA invests heavily in infrastructure (which is why every village and town in Ireland has a GAA club with a decent clubhouse).

Isn't that more or less the opposite of Irish pro rugby?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Actually, they are similar operated and governed.

GAA HQ then distributes funds (approx. €60 million annually) to the county boards. Instead of paying players, the GAA invests heavily in infrastructure (which is why every village and town in Ireland has a GAA club with a decent clubhouse).

Isn't that more or less the opposite of Irish pro rugby?

In what way?

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Actually, they are similar operated and governed.

GAA HQ then distributes funds (approx. €60 million annually) to the county boards. Instead of paying players, the GAA invests heavily in infrastructure (which is why every village and town in Ireland has a GAA club with a decent clubhouse).

Isn't that more or less the opposite of Irish pro rugby?

In what way?

Paying players

Yes if you ignore the stuff sin wrote and just focus on amateur vs professional.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes if you ignore the stuff sin wrote and just focus on amateur vs professional.

That's key though isn't it. That key fact means that everything else is having money spent on it. Does the IRFU spend 60m Euros on village rugby clubhouses and infrastructure in Ireland every year?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes if you ignore the stuff sin wrote and just focus on amateur vs professional.

That's key though isn't it. That key fact means that everything else is having money spent on it. Does the IRFU spend 60m Euros on village rugby clubhouses and infrastructure in Ireland every year?

Except that's not how the GAA do it, they fund the provincial associations as the IRFU does in rugby, the provinces are then responsible for the administration of those funds within their areas in both GAA and rugby

Like I said if you want to ignore his point go ahead.

marty2086 wrote: the provinces are then responsible for the administration of those funds within their areas in both GAA and rugby

In every single case? For every single player?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote: the provinces are then responsible for the administration of those funds within their areas in both GAA and rugby

In every single case? For every single player?

Funds go into more than players

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Actually, they are similar operated and governed.

GAA HQ then distributes funds (approx. €60 million annually) to the county boards. Instead of paying players, the GAA invests heavily in infrastructure (which is why every village and town in Ireland has a GAA club with a decent clubhouse).

Isn't that more or less the opposite of Irish pro rugby?

Not at all. The way the funds are collected centrally and redistributed are similar. The difference is that the GAA spend the money on developing infrastructure and on the grass roots games (100s of Development Officers who go into schools to coach and work with coaching in the clubs with kids etc).

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes if you ignore the stuff sin wrote and just focus on amateur vs professional.

That's key though isn't it. That key fact means that everything else is having money spent on it. Does the IRFU spend 60m Euros on village rugby clubhouses and infrastructure in Ireland every year?

No, last year it spent €20m on the redevelopment of Páirc Uí Chaoimh in Cork. It also spent a couple of million on the development of grounds in New York City and it has set aside £15 for the redevelopment of Casement Park in Belfast.

Now, the IRFU gave Munster or Ulster nothing to redevelop their stadia. (Munster got a loan which it has to pay back).

Sin é wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes if you ignore the stuff sin wrote and just focus on amateur vs professional.

That's key though isn't it. That key fact means that everything else is having money spent on it. Does the IRFU spend 60m Euros on village rugby clubhouses and infrastructure in Ireland every year?

No, last year it spent €20m on the redevelopment of Páirc Uí Chaoimh in Cork. It also spent a couple of million on the development of grounds in New York City and it has set aside £15 for the redevelopment of Casement Park in Belfast.

Now, the IRFU gave Munster or Ulster nothing to redevelop their stadia. (Munster got a loan which it has to pay back).

But I thought the governance of the 2 were the same? The more and more I read, the more different they appear. Not that this is on topic really.

Similar is not defined as the same.

What do you mean by the Governance being different. Both IRFU & GAA are run by volunteer Boards* who oversee the work of the professional staff of their organisations.

*Unlike the WRU board, the IRFU board don't get paid. Tom Grace (IRFU Treasurer) is a volunteer. So is Phil Orr, the IRFU President and the rest of the board of Directors.

PhilBB wrote:

TJ wrote:I asked a couple of questions that have not been answered
1) What revenue streams do you think some pro 14 teams have that the others do not?  All get paid the same from the pro 14, all are able to do local sponsership deals, all get some money from the 6N income, all get some income from the european competitions, all get some income from ticket sales.

2) who is the highest paid welsh player and how much do they get?  OK Hogg is £375000 not £300000.  I bet there are a dozen welsh players on more

1. All don't get the same from the PrO'14 because the PrO'14 money and 6N income and Euro income, for Ireland and Scotland, goes to the IRFU and SRU. Those unions then decide how to set budgets.

2. I already told you that Moriarty will be the highest paid Welsh player next season. He's rumoured to be on £450k.

Hogg is on £375k while Moriarty is on £450k? Moriarty must have a very good agent.

profitius wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

TJ wrote:I asked a couple of questions that have not been answered
1) What revenue streams do you think some pro 14 teams have that the others do not?  All get paid the same from the pro 14, all are able to do local sponsership deals, all get some money from the 6N income, all get some income from the european competitions, all get some income from ticket sales.

2) who is the highest paid welsh player and how much do they get?  OK Hogg is £375000 not £300000.  I bet there are a dozen welsh players on more

1. All don't get the same from the PrO'14 because the PrO'14 money and 6N income and Euro income, for Ireland and Scotland, goes to the IRFU and SRU. Those unions then decide how to set budgets.

2. I already told you that Moriarty will be the highest paid Welsh player next season. He's rumoured to be on £450k.

Hogg is on £375k while Moriarty is on £450k?  Moriarty must have a very good agent.

Well seeing as Dan Biggar has just gone to Northampton for £650k a year I bet Hogg is feeling very unloved and undervalued! What’s Piatau’s salary at Bristol? £900k a year? Is he nearly 3 times better than hogg?! I think it’s Hogg’s agent who we need to focus on. Is his agent TJ?!

The Oracle wrote:

profitius wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

TJ wrote:I asked a couple of questions that have not been answered
1) What revenue streams do you think some pro 14 teams have that the others do not?  All get paid the same from the pro 14, all are able to do local sponsership deals, all get some money from the 6N income, all get some income from the european competitions, all get some income from ticket sales.

2) who is the highest paid welsh player and how much do they get?  OK Hogg is £375000 not £300000.  I bet there are a dozen welsh players on more

1. All don't get the same from the PrO'14 because the PrO'14 money and 6N income and Euro income, for Ireland and Scotland, goes to the IRFU and SRU. Those unions then decide how to set budgets.

2. I already told you that Moriarty will be the highest paid Welsh player next season. He's rumoured to be on £450k.

Hogg is on £375k while Moriarty is on £450k?  Moriarty must have a very good agent.

Well seeing as Dan Biggar has just gone to Northampton for £650k a year I bet Hogg is feeling very unloved and undervalued! What’s Piatau’s salary at Bristol? £900k a year? Is he nearly 3 times better than hogg?! I think it’s Hogg’s agent who we need to focus on. Is his agent TJ?!

Zing!!

PhilBB wrote:

Brendan wrote:Fine Phil sorry that I am not the best writer of English we all can't be perfect medically

Answer these simple questions
1. What is the money spent on players by Welsh regions or the salary cap that is self imposed by the regions
2. What figure do you feel the SRU spend on players wages at their two clubs (you have now accepted the 25m is for all costs so making progress)
3. Based off the answers of the first two questions what is the ratio of Welsh spend to Scottish spend
4. Should an organisation who owns a private club/region be allowed to spend as much as they want on their team.
5. Is the WRU an organisation who purchased a private club/region

1. There is no salary cap. The playing budgets are approximately £6m Turks, £6m Ospreys, £5.5m Cardiff, £4.5m (for next season) Dragons
2. I didn't accept it was for "all costs". I even copied and pasted the extract from the SRU Annual Report that proved it wasn't "for all costs". I' say Glasgow's spend is over £6m and Edinburgh's about £5m.
3. You can work that out.
4. Yes.
5. Part purchased, yes.

Going off the above things in bold seems most teams are around the same (As we all know Phil is usually right ) Ospreys, Ulster & Connacht all have removed their coach because they didn't do a good job in the eyes of management.

Hopefully we will continue to see a tightening of points like we had with Conference B that the top three were only divided by a few points

EirSport and TG4 officially announced as the broadcasters for PRO14 for next season in Ireland only, not NI.   It would appear from the statement that BT are staying with EirSport for Champions Cup.  (However, when I asked about this online they said they could not assure me of this for next three years). Could be quite pricey compared to the UK offer for PRO14, depending on your current broadband or TV providers.  Free if you’re already an Eir broadband customer.  If you want to become an Eir customer, then it’s €40 a month for Eir broadband/landline and EirSport is free, BUT after 12 months the monthly charge rises to €76 per month!!.  Or else EirSport is available for subscription on Sky for €27.50 a month with no annual commitment after first 2 months.

Edit:  I got in touch with Eir and they said another alternative if you’re already with other providers is to get a SIM-only package that you can put into your mobile or tablet.  The EirSport App is free with this.  It costs €15 per month for first six months, then €30 per month. Prices will change after 18 months.  It’s a rolling 30-day contract with usual 30-day notice cancellation.  You can purchase online or in stores. The EirSport App on Mobile is castable onto your TV, according to their online chat service but the website seems to say different. Best to check this in-store before you commit.

21 FTA games on TG4 similar to FreeSport channel in UK. (Although, there are plans to have FTA Welsh region games on S4C as well apparently in the UK)

It’s also possible from reading the announcements that the revenues from the Premier Sport deal will go to the 7 UK-based teams and the EirSport revenues go to the 3 Irish-based teams.

Excerpt from PRO14 announcement:

“The partnership means that for the first time in the Republic of Ireland, rugby supporters can watch all 152 games a season of the most exciting club rugby championship in the world. This will include every Munster and Leinster game live, with the derby games between the two provinces to be broadcast exclusively live in the Republic of Ireland on the eir sport channels.

Fans can look forward to seeing over 30 hours of Guinness PRO14 related programming every week including up to six live games with pre and post-match analysis. A weekly highlights show to review and preview each round of games will also form part of the eir sport schedule.

This consolidates eir sport’s position as the home of the rugby in Ireland. The eir sport pack will be the only place to watch all of the European Champions Cup from next season, the U-20 World Championships, the Leinster Senior School Cups and will be the home of the 2019 Rugby World Cup in Japan. Ireland internationals, such as last summer’s tour of Japan and the historic win against the All Blacks in Chicago, could also only be watched on eir sport.

The Guinness PRO14 coverage on eir sport will be broadcast from a state-of-the-art studio which has recently been redeveloped. eir sport will use new faces and new technology to engage with Irish rugby supporters in fresh and innovative ways.

eir sport has entered into a sub-licencing agreement with TG4, allowing the Irish language broadcaster access to a select number of games.


Initial reading of that sounds like Munster and Leinster games predominantly on EirSport and Connacht games on TG4.  Poor form to exclude any mention of Connacht from the announcement.

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
So what Leinster players have been forced to move elsewhere? Jordi Murphy himself said he sought the move to Ulster himself to try guarantee his place at the world cup dues to the log jam in the backrow at Leinster.

You keep saying Leinster spend loads of money... I know they do hence why Sexton is one of the best paid players I  world rugby with the help from the IRFU. You still haven't explained how Leinster could compete financially on their own. If your suggesting a sugar daddy comes in and throws his checkbook around; I'm sure I can speak for every Leinster fan and say no thanks. Leinster is spending near the salary cap thanks to the IRFU.

I didn't claim any individual had been FORCED to move elsewhere.

If Leinster were on their own, in private ownership, they could spend more money.

I never understand the Irish mentality that wouldn't want private ownership. Especially when so many of that mindset follow pro soccer.

Again I ask how do you know they could spend more money under private ownership? Do you know another South African consortium that wants to throw money into a European club?

You keep telling us Leinster are spending around the same as the top French and english clubs ;and they propbaly arent far off given the size and success of the club but yet you continue to claim they would be somehow better off financially without the IRFU? No wonder you don't understand.

TJ wrote:oracle - no I just understand what is going on somewhat better than you do and am fed up of the welsh fans claiming they are hard done by financially when its clear they are not.

You know so well that you made a claim the SRU Annual Report clearly disproved.

What's clear is that you're clueless.

Pot Hale wrote:

It’s also possible from reading the announcements that the revenues from the Premier Sport deal will go to the 7 UK-based teams and the EirSport revenues go to the 3 Irish-based teams.

.

Woooaaahh there cowboy. What's this all about? Have you got confirmation this is the case?

Sin é wrote:

Have you seen the state of pro soccer in Ireland? That is not the example to follow. Rugby follows the GAA template, the most successful amateur sports organisation in the world.

Yep, it does.

marty2086 wrote:
You're best ignoring Phil he bleats on about private ownership yet never grasps it isn't the be all and end all. His beloved Blues are owned privately yet can't spend more money, they need to go to the WRU with the begging bowl, have lost their coach because they won't invest in the squad and cancelled contracts they could no longer afford.

Weren't he and other complaining about the disparity in spending too with Leinster being quoted at 9m, so they apparently outspend everyone else in the league but could spend more if owned privately and yet there's no logical reason given as to why.

I mean it's not like either entity is run at the discretion of those who fund it and rely on them having sufficient funds to assist, not to mention that those running the operations have the knowledge to put it to good use

Only cowards and idiots ignore me, Martyn.

That first paragraph is a paradigm of ignorance. I love it. Never change.

profitius wrote:
Hogg is on £375k while Moriarty is on £450k?  Moriarty must have a very good agent.

Moriarty only had one bidder at £450k.

And I doubt £375k is the limit of Hogg's earnings.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Again I ask how do you know they could spend more money under private ownership? Do you know another South African consortium that wants to throw money into a European club?

You keep telling us Leinster are spending around the same as the top French and english clubs ;and they propbaly arent far off given the size and success of the club but yet you continue to claim they would be somehow better off financially without the IRFU? No wonder you don't understand.

Remind me again who paid for the top ups of (at least) Sexton and Heaslip. Remind me again of who (at least part) funded the UCD Academy set up. So why are you asking about South Africans?

I'm amazed that you can't work out that a privately owned club, working on the fair funding models used in England and France, wouldn't allow Leinster's spend to increase dramatically. Think of the extra finance that would open up - even through an equity purchase.

In the light of all that, your final sentence is deliciously ironic.

Haha Phill your so important everyone must listen to you?
Your self importance has truly peaked today.

carpet baboon wrote:Haha Phill your so important everyone must listen to you?
Your self importance has truly peaked today.

Thanks, Babs.

PhilBB wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Haha Phill your so important everyone must listen to you?
Your self importance has truly peaked today.

Thanks, Babs.

I see you have moved on from "champ" as your preferred attempt to exert your internet superiority.
Well done Phill your growing as a person

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

It’s also possible from reading the announcements that the revenues from the Premier Sport deal will go to the 7 UK-based teams and the EirSport revenues go to the 3 Irish-based teams.

.

Woooaaahh there cowboy. What's this all about? Have you got confirmation this is the case?

No. I said it’s possible from reading the announcements...

Pot Hale wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

It’s also possible from reading the announcements that the revenues from the Premier Sport deal will go to the 7 UK-based teams and the EirSport revenues go to the 3 Irish-based teams.

.

Woooaaahh there cowboy. What's this all about? Have you got confirmation this is the case?

No. I said it’s possible from reading the announcements...

Which bit of text are you reading between the lines to get this?

In order for this to happen, wouldn't the Premier sports ££ have to be over twice the amount of the Eir Sports ££ to make this a fair, even distribution of income between all teams?

Private ownership doesn't necessarily mean a Club would be able to spend more and perhaps more importantly want to spend more. That's obvious isn't it?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

It’s also possible from reading the announcements that the revenues from the Premier Sport deal will go to the 7 UK-based teams and the EirSport revenues go to the 3 Irish-based teams.

.

Woooaaahh there cowboy. What's this all about? Have you got confirmation this is the case?

No. I said it’s possible from reading the announcements...

Which bit of text are you reading between the lines to get this?

In order for this to happen, wouldn't the Premier sports ££ have to be over twice the amount of the Eir Sports ££ to make this a fair, even distribution of income between all teams?

The Premier Sports deal should be twice if not three times the amount of the Eir Sports deal. Much bigger market, four broadcast territories, bigger population, more teams, etc. Ignore my earlier comment, probably over-reading something in the announcements. Under the current deal, the territorial TV deals were allocated in proportion according to those who generated them e.g. WRU regions raised the most through BBC Wales/S4C and got greater amounts as a result. Sky deal monies were split by number of teams in each of the three shareholder unions. Italy get their monies through Eurosport, SA through Super Sport.

So, Munster are changing to an artificial pitch in Musgrave Park, Cork. Interesting to see how Munster are funding it.



Major upgrade works have commenced at the province’s Cork-based stadium, Irish Independent Park, this week.

The significant development, an integral part of the province’s long-term strategy for the Cork area, sees the installation of a modified 3G pitch surface by Tralee-based company PST Sport, replacing the current grass surface.

Funded in part by Munster’s own commercial revenue streams, including the Munster Rugby Annual London Dinner, and a Sports Capital Grant, the new artificial pitch will allow for a significant increase in games played and hosted events, on a consistent basis, assisting the province’s efforts of growing the game at grassroots level.

Irish Independent Park is already the focal point for rugby in the South Munster region and this upgrade will allow for further opportunities going forward, benefiting the wider rugby community.

https://munsterrugby.ie/2018/05/04/artificial-pitch-installation-commences-at-irish-independent-park/

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Again I ask how do you know they could spend more money under private ownership? Do you know another South African consortium that wants to throw money into a European club?

You keep telling us Leinster are spending around the same as the top French and english clubs ;and they propbaly arent far off given the size and success of the club but yet you continue to claim they would be somehow better off financially without the IRFU? No wonder you don't understand.

Remind me again who paid for the top ups of (at least) Sexton and Heaslip. Remind me again of who (at least part) funded the UCD Academy set up. So why are you asking about South Africans?

I'm amazed that you can't work out that a privately owned club, working on the fair funding models used in England and France, wouldn't allow Leinster's spend to increase dramatically. Think of the extra finance that would open up - even through an equity purchase.

In the light of all that, your final sentence is deliciously ironic.

Again you haven't provided any evidence as to how this will result in more money being spent by the club. If Leinster are already spending as much; under the IRFU as the top privately owned clubs in Europe, then how will going private allow them to spend more??? Why would they change?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Again I ask how do you know they could spend more money under private ownership? Do you know another South African consortium that wants to throw money into a European club?

You keep telling us Leinster are spending around the same as the top French and english clubs ;and they propbaly arent far off given the size and success of the club but yet you continue to claim they would be somehow better off financially without the IRFU? No wonder you don't understand.

Remind me again who paid for the top ups of (at least) Sexton and Heaslip. Remind me again of who (at least part) funded the UCD Academy set up. So why are you asking about South Africans?

I'm amazed that you can't work out that a privately owned club, working on the fair funding models used in England and France, wouldn't allow Leinster's spend to increase dramatically. Think of the extra finance that would open up - even through an equity purchase.

In the light of all that, your final sentence is deliciously ironic.

Again you haven't provided any evidence as to how this will result in more money being spent by the club. If Leinster are already spending as much; under the IRFU as the top privately owned clubs in Europe, then how will going private allow them to spend more??? Why would they change?

Phils logic is that if he say's it, then it is so.

Sin é wrote:So, Munster are changing to an artificial pitch in Musgrave Park, Cork. Interesting to see how Munster are funding it.



Major upgrade works have commenced at the province’s Cork-based stadium, Irish Independent Park, this week.

The significant development, an integral part of the province’s long-term strategy for the Cork area, sees the installation of a modified 3G pitch surface by Tralee-based company PST Sport, replacing the current grass surface.

Funded in part by Munster’s own commercial revenue streams, including the Munster Rugby Annual London Dinner, and a Sports Capital Grant, the new artificial pitch will allow for a significant increase in games played and hosted events, on a consistent basis, assisting the province’s efforts of growing the game at grassroots level.

Irish Independent Park is already the focal point for rugby in the South Munster region and this upgrade will allow for further opportunities going forward, benefiting the wider rugby community.

https://munsterrugby.ie/2018/05/04/artificial-pitch-installation-commences-at-irish-independent-park/

Sports Capital Grant by the sound of it, and a fundraising dinner. Likely cost of a 3g pitch is about €550k apparently. Be interesting to see how much they got- they had Micheal Martin and Simon Coveney involved in the lobbying.

marty2086 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Again I ask how do you know they could spend more money under private ownership? Do you know another South African consortium that wants to throw money into a European club?

You keep telling us Leinster are spending around the same as the top French and english clubs ;and they propbaly arent far off given the size and success of the club but yet you continue to claim they would be somehow better off financially without the IRFU? No wonder you don't understand.

Remind me again who paid for the top ups of (at least) Sexton and Heaslip. Remind me again of who (at least part) funded the UCD Academy set up. So why are you asking about South Africans?

I'm amazed that you can't work out that a privately owned club, working on the fair funding models used in England and France, wouldn't allow Leinster's spend to increase dramatically. Think of the extra finance that would open up - even through an equity purchase.

In the light of all that, your final sentence is deliciously ironic.

Again you haven't provided any evidence as to how this will result in more money being spent by the club. If Leinster are already spending as much; under the IRFU as the top privately owned clubs in Europe, then how will going private allow them to spend more??? Why would they change?

Phils logic is that if he say's it, then it is so.

Is this PhilBB who hates the PRO 14 as he says Irish teams spend more and its not fair, promoting a system which he believes an Irish team can then spend even more making it even more unfair, so he can hate the Pro 14 more?

marty2086 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Again I ask how do you know they could spend more money under private ownership? Do you know another South African consortium that wants to throw money into a European club?

You keep telling us Leinster are spending around the same as the top French and english clubs ;and they propbaly arent far off given the size and success of the club but yet you continue to claim they would be somehow better off financially without the IRFU? No wonder you don't understand.

Remind me again who paid for the top ups of (at least) Sexton and Heaslip. Remind me again of who (at least part) funded the UCD Academy set up. So why are you asking about South Africans?

I'm amazed that you can't work out that a privately owned club, working on the fair funding models used in England and France, wouldn't allow Leinster's spend to increase dramatically. Think of the extra finance that would open up - even through an equity purchase.

In the light of all that, your final sentence is deliciously ironic.

Again you haven't provided any evidence as to how this will result in more money being spent by the club. If Leinster are already spending as much; under the IRFU as the top privately owned clubs in Europe, then how will going private allow them to spend more??? Why would they change?

Phils logic is that if he say's it, then it is so.

Sounds like your logic too in fairness, Marty.

Kingshu wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Again I ask how do you know they could spend more money under private ownership? Do you know another South African consortium that wants to throw money into a European club?

You keep telling us Leinster are spending around the same as the top French and english clubs ;and they propbaly arent far off given the size and success of the club but yet you continue to claim they would be somehow better off financially without the IRFU? No wonder you don't understand.

Remind me again who paid for the top ups of (at least) Sexton and Heaslip. Remind me again of who (at least part) funded the UCD Academy set up. So why are you asking about South Africans?

I'm amazed that you can't work out that a privately owned club, working on the fair funding models used in England and France, wouldn't allow Leinster's spend to increase dramatically. Think of the extra finance that would open up - even through an equity purchase.

In the light of all that, your final sentence is deliciously ironic.

Again you haven't provided any evidence as to how this will result in more money being spent by the club. If Leinster are already spending as much; under the IRFU as the top privately owned clubs in Europe, then how will going private allow them to spend more??? Why would they change?

Phils logic is that if he say's it, then it is so.

Is this PhilBB who hates the PRO 14 as he says Irish teams spend more and its not fair, promoting a system which he believes an Irish team can then spend even more making it even more unfair, so he can hate the Pro 14 more?

I see you have met phill before. But be warned if you disagree with him your an idiot, if you ignore him your a coward, apparently.

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Again I ask how do you know they could spend more money under private ownership? Do you know another South African consortium that wants to throw money into a European club?

You keep telling us Leinster are spending around the same as the top French and english clubs ;and they propbaly arent far off given the size and success of the club but yet you continue to claim they would be somehow better off financially without the IRFU? No wonder you don't understand.

Remind me again who paid for the top ups of (at least) Sexton and Heaslip. Remind me again of who (at least part) funded the UCD Academy set up. So why are you asking about South Africans?

I'm amazed that you can't work out that a privately owned club, working on the fair funding models used in England and France, wouldn't allow Leinster's spend to increase dramatically. Think of the extra finance that would open up - even through an equity purchase.

In the light of all that, your final sentence is deliciously ironic.

Again you haven't provided any evidence as to how this will result in more money being spent by the club. If Leinster are already spending as much; under the IRFU as the top privately owned clubs in Europe, then how will going private allow them to spend more??? Why would they change?

Phils logic is that if he say's it, then it is so.

Sounds like your logic too in fairness, Marty.

There was me thinking it was Phil saying Leinster would be able to spend more under private ownership and parrot it without actually explaining how, my bad forgetting that was me

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Again I ask how do you know they could spend more money under private ownership? Do you know another South African consortium that wants to throw money into a European club?

You keep telling us Leinster are spending around the same as the top French and english clubs ;and they propbaly arent far off given the size and success of the club but yet you continue to claim they would be somehow better off financially without the IRFU? No wonder you don't understand.

Remind me again who paid for the top ups of (at least) Sexton and Heaslip. Remind me again of who (at least part) funded the UCD Academy set up. So why are you asking about South Africans?

I'm amazed that you can't work out that a privately owned club, working on the fair funding models used in England and France, wouldn't allow Leinster's spend to increase dramatically. Think of the extra finance that would open up - even through an equity purchase.

In the light of all that, your final sentence is deliciously ironic.

Again you haven't provided any evidence as to how this will result in more money being spent by the club. If Leinster are already spending as much; under the IRFU as the top privately owned clubs in Europe, then how will going private allow them to spend more??? Why would they change?

Phils logic is that if he say's it, then it is so.

Sounds like your logic too in fairness, Marty.

There was me thinking it was Phil saying Leinster would be able to spend more under private ownership and parrot it without actually explaining how, my bad forgetting that was me

You’re like different sides of the same coin. If Marty says it, then it is so too!