England Six Nations Thread

[ChequeredJersey]

First topic message reminder :

In that case LIW, Ill put my money on it being the following.

6 Lawes
7 Robshaw
8 Hughes

Hughes off knackered after about 50/55 mins.
Robshaw to 8 then Underhill on at 7.

I cant see Jones bringing Mercer up just yet.

Haskell is back in to so may come into the reckoning as starter or bench cover although might be harsh on Underhill.

Could be tried & tested.

6. Robshaw
7. Haskell
8. Hughes

Lawes covering bench

I think we need to Focus on Underhill now. Unless we're REALLY struggling for an 8, then possibly pop Haskell in.

6 Robshaw
7 Underhill
8 Haskell

Robshaw, Frodo, Hughes. Hask on bench

[kingelderfield]

Vunipola, LCD, Cole
Launchbury, Otoje (C)
Simmonds, Hughes, Robshaw
Care, Ford
Salmonella, Farrell, Joseph, May
Watson
Marker, George, Sinckler
Lawes, Haskell (should be either Z Mercer or J Willis) Robson, Te'o & Daly

Wrong flippen thread!

[lostinwales]

Mr Underhill is out for the season now.

Ruptured tendon in the toe. That isn't good - and he's not lucky with injuries at all

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43322300

[No 7&1/2]

Mercer is injured. If you think smith is a mile off surely willis is.

[kingelderfield]

Right you are, I'd forgotten about Mercer. The point is valid except there are real options way ahead of Smith, whereas realistically Willis is rightfully ahead of Haskell, who has only a couple of performances left if that.

[No 7&1/2]

There's ford and Farrell above smith at the moment. Whereas there's Robshaw Haskell lawes simmonds underhill when ever fit! Curry Clifford ahead of willis. And come October you will be pushing Shields and you know it!

[No 7&1/2]

And that's not to say willis doesn't look a very good prospect. Merely highlights the realistic options ahead of him. Ahead of smith not so many.

[mid_gen]

Can you imagine losing to Ireland at Twickenham on St Paddys day.

It would be unbearable.

If memory serves, the England v Ireland game has fallen on Paddy's day weekend pretty regularly for years now. Not a coincidence I suspect...

[mid_gen]

Smith is a long way off international exposure.

Smith will be on the bench if Ford or Farrell pick up an injury.

If Ford does his disappearing act again against France and we lose, I wouldn't be surprised to see him involved against Ireland.

[Geordie]

Disappointed that Underhill is out. He's not getting the luck with injuries.
Like Clifford all over again.

So the back row will be:
Lawes
Robshaw
Hughes

With SImmonds off the bench

[Guest]

Smith is a long way off international exposure.

Smith will be on the bench if Ford or Farrell pick up an injury.

If Ford does his disappearing act again against France and we lose, I wouldn't be surprised to see him involved against Ireland.

God I hope not, he's nowhere near ready.

Besides, after coming off the bench and being chased down over 80m by a backrower that had played for 80 minutes, despite having a 10m head start...perhaps he shouldn't be playing for anyone right now, he's clearly knackered.

[LondonTiger]

Smith played well for about 20 minutes at Welford Road a few weeks ago (only time I have seen him live). Once Leicester started to get the upper hand in the forwards his influence diminished to close to nothing. After his YC he was completely anonymous.

Now he is a kid, and he may well be showing signs of fatigue. He is quite clearly a player for the future, but should Ford or Farrell be incapacitated for the Ireland game Lozowski, Francis and Slade would all be ahead of him for bench duties I suspect.



PS We can argue all night long about whether Ford "went missing" but so far most people entering that debate have a biased viewpoint either as advocates for the Tiger or for a putative contender. I would instead like to point out that I do not believe I have ever seen a 10 who looked good consistently when his side was on the back foot,

[Poorfour]

PS We can argue all night long about whether Ford "went missing" but so far most people entering that debate have a biased viewpoint either as advocates for the Tiger or for a putative contender. I would instead like to point out that I do not believe I have ever seen a 10 who looked good consistently when his side was on the back foot,

...which is exactly the same argument that could be made in favour of Smith.

My view is that Smith is very similar in his development to where Ford was when he broke into the England team. The big difference is that when Ford was a wunderkind England didn't have any real alternatives, whereas now they have an established 10/12 pairing that mostly works and other options who can cover 10, 12 and 13. However, where Smith and Ford are out on their own is in the way they read the game and exploit the space. Ford is the better attacking kicker; Smith is better at moving the point of attack. Smith also looks set to be a better defender if he continues to improve at his current rate.

Right now, I wouldn't want to see him in the match day squad. Too much, too soon, and Ireland would put pressure down his channel that he probably isn't ready to handle. But I'd like to see him in the summer touring party, and I wouldn't bet against him making his debut against Japan in the Autumn.

[LondonTiger]

PS We can argue all night long about whether Ford "went missing" but so far most people entering that debate have a biased viewpoint either as advocates for the Tiger or for a putative contender. I would instead like to point out that I do not believe I have ever seen a 10 who looked good consistently when his side was on the back foot,

...which is exactly the same argument that could be made in favour of Smith.

Indeed, which I was kind of inferring - but maybe not transparently.

[kingelderfield]

As for Ford going missing......if you lose the breakdown and then kick away whatever ball you do have........no I'm sorry the selection and strategy did for Ford, not his middling form.

[mid_gen]

Ford lacks the speed of thought to create openings when time and space is being squeezed by the opposition. Seems to not even consider attacking the line himself for England, but maybe that's coaching. He's a wonderful passer of the ball when he has time to compose himself, some decent kicking out of hand.

Loses points for lacking the cojones for place-kicking duties in my mind as well, we'll have to see how Smith goes on that front as he's not going to be playing in any high-pressure games this season as quins aren't quite dreadful enough to be in relegation danger.

[Scottrff]

Ford lacks speed of thought?! He's perhaps the best in the world at it...

[mid_gen]

We need to address our weakness, which is that we can't deal with it when fast defences slow our ball and shut down our time and space. Ford is part of that problem. Farrell can respond to those situations like he did against Wales and Scotland (created our tries against Wales, scored them against Scotland).

Ford just shuts down when he gets squeezed, just shovels the ball onto Farrell and lets him deal with it.

[carpet baboon]

I know it wasn't an international game but they are both in the wider England squad but.....
Just seen Mercer's tackle on Smith in the quin's bath game. Jesus mercer has some engine on him

[lostinwales]

I know it wasn't an international game but they are both in the wider England squad but.....
Just seen Mercer's tackle on Smith in the quin's bath game. Jesus mercer has some engine on him

I have kept thinking he's an English Parisse, but maybe he's more of a Dallaglio mk2. Dallaglio was fast when he first hit the international scene.

[nlpnlp]

I think referencing Zach Mercer to Parisse and Dallaglio off the back of one tackle may be a bit hyperbolic. Good effort, but .....

[kingelderfield]

'Hyperbolic'. As a testicular cancer surviver, I think I might get one of those.

[eirebilly]

Has anyone seen the horror tackle made by 2 French U20 players on Fraser Dingwall from England? It resulted in a double red card for the French but my god those two French players should receive lengthy bans.

http://rugbylad.ie/watch-double-red-card-france-u20s-game-following-horror-tackle/

You will have to click on the French twitter link to see it.

[majesticimperialman]

Having seen the replay that was some dump tackle.....Surely the 2 French players should be banned for life, for doing that.

[majesticimperialman]

Having seen the replay that was some dump tackle.....Surely the 2 French players should be banned for life, for doing that.

[No 7&1/2]

Jesus. That's a horrible bit of play.

[eirebilly]

Things can happen in the heat of the moment but that looks to be calculated. Both players lift and dump in perfect synchronisation. Very lucky that Fraser Dingwall was not seriously hurt.

[lostinwales]

Things can happen in the heat of the moment but that looks to be calculated. Both players lift and dump in perfect synchronisation. Very lucky that Fraser Dingwall was not seriously hurt.

I think the timing was more bad luck than preplanned - but the fact is that both players thought it was OK to lift up the England player like that.

Awful

[Geordie]

All very well listing Mercer as the next big thing but he has to fulfil the potential....

Something previous U20 WC winning captains have failed miserably.

Clifford - Permanently injured
Calum Chick - Being brought through slowly by Dean.

[lostinwales]

All very well listing Mercer as the next big thing but he has to fulfil the potential....

Something previous U20 WC winning captains have failed miserably.

Clifford - Permanently injured
Calum Chick - Being brought through slowly by Dean.

I could be wrong but don't think Chick is going to be international material. Clifford has been unlucky but too many players seem to be perma- injured.

I do think Mercer is a hell of a prospect, not least because he seems to have real leadership potential. But he is on the lightweight side for the international game. I hope he fills out but does so without becoming another injury magnet.

[Geordie]

LIW your right Chick isn't going to be International material.

With regards to Mercer being lightweight...Dalaglio wasn't a heavyweight in his England 7's World Cup winning days.
But he developed into an absolute monster.

I just want to see the real potential being realised. Too many of our young players are built up and so few really hit the heights expected. Only Itoje has recently...

[No 7&1/2]

Depends though doesn't it. It's always going to hard for young players to fully develop for england as we have so many options. You will always have players who are unlucky as when opportunities arise they pick up an injury. If we had fewer opions players like wade would have got a look in. Countless other examples out there. The second someone falls slightly in form there are other options. Despite not liking all his choices I have to applaud jones in the fact he will stick with players he thinks are worth it.

[Geordie]

Ireland are looking Ominous

[Geordie]

Your right 7.5

Jones has been strict with his squad. And that is a good thing.

I guess todays game will show if we bounce back.

[No 7&1/2]

In another multiverse underhill and curry didn't get injured neither did vunipola. Is he outlook so bad now? Who knows.

[Geordie]

It is a concern 7.5

Is it too much rugby? I noticed the stat that post Lions, Englands players have played 12 hours of rugby, whereas Irelands have only played 5
Is that relevant or not remotely.

[SecretFly]

It is a concern 7.5

Is it too much rugby? I noticed the stat that post Lions, Englands players have played 12 hours of rugby, whereas Irelands have only played 5
Is that relevant or not remotely.

Is that a combination of all player minutes?

Anyway, you have to balance the issues that might arise from too much rugby with too little.  Familiarity and intensity normalised over time competes with the potential that players might be undercooked and confused playing the systems with each other.

[Geordie]

I think that is what each player has played..

[rugby4cast]

Irelands victory and Englands defeat also means that Ireland will replace England as world number 2 come Monday.






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[No 7&1/2]

And if england beat ireland ne t saturday I assume it'll switch back?

[No 7&1/2]

Eek. Just thought of the guys who constantly kicked Lancaster. He's officially outdone jones on 6ns.

[No9]

Done some maths as well. Looks like England will be playing for 3rd place in the final weekend. They loose, and Scotland beat Italy (probable) and Wales beat France (really possible in Cardiff - and Wales get BP win tomorrow against Italy - Probable) and England could end up 4th.

Wow.. that'll quickly bring Eddie Jones honeymoon period to an end.

[mikey_dragon]

I predicted a loss to France and fourth place finish for England. When Ireland finish the job and get the Grand Slam I expect the latter will also come true. Fair play, me and Gatland have been spot on with our predictions this tournament. Champs to chumps for England beckons and a few reality checks for some of their arrogant fans, AND their arrogant coach .

[Guest]

I predicted a loss to France and fourth place finish for England. When Ireland finish the job and get the Grand Slam I expect the latter will also come true. Fair play, me and Gatland have been spot on with our predictions this tournament. Champs to chumps for England beckons and a few reality checks for some of their arrogant fans, AND their arrogant coach .

Are you p*ssed mate? You sound like a bit of a kn*b!

[No 7&1/2]

Well that makes you a little short sighted mikey should it happen.

[No 7&1/2]

Or what oracle said!

[Guest]

So for me only Robshaw and Farrell played well enough to guarantee their place next week, the rest will be quite nervous this week.

I'd like to see:

Code:


Vunipola  George  Williams
    Launchbury  Itoje
Robshaw            Haskell
        Simmonds
    Wigglesworth
             Farrell
                  Teo
Daly                JJ    Watson
           Brown

LCD, Marler, Sinckler, Lawes, Armand, Care, Ford, May


That's assuming Hughes will be unavailable.

I think it might actually be Manu's offensive ruck work that eventually gets him back into the squad, it can be incredibly useful towards the outside.

[TightHEAD]

England paying the price for supplying a fair number of lions and playing too much club rugby.

Saw this coming to be honest we are missing BillyV and putting too much faith in Ford who since leaving Bath has been poor.

Hope this is the end of Cole though, useless.

[mikey_dragon]

I predicted a loss to France and fourth place finish for England. When Ireland finish the job and get the Grand Slam I expect the latter will also come true. Fair play, me and Gatland have been spot on with our predictions this tournament. Champs to chumps for England beckons and a few reality checks for some of their arrogant fans, AND their arrogant coach .

Are you p*ssed mate? You sound like a bit of a kn*b!

Too early for me. Wtf is your problem anyway? You're sat behind a keyboard FFS

[No 7&1/2]

Armond ain't in the squad so he's jot going to be included. Ford is still currently the best 10 we have. Despite leaving bath.

[Guest]

But he can be called up to replace Hughes if he is injured, right? Not that we know for sure, given that the current EPS arrangement hasn't been published.

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