BBC Wales out of running to show Pro 14 next season

by RugbyFan100 Tue 06 Mar 2018, 11:58 am

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43302261

Live coverage of club rugby will not be shown on BBC Two Wales next season after the BBC failed to reach a deal to continue broadcasting the Pro 14 tournament.

Competition organisers are understood to have awarded the UK rights to a pay-TV service, but BBC Wales had hoped to continue broadcasting games in Wales.

It means viewers will no longer be able to watch club games on free-to-air television in English. Negotiations over Welsh language rights are ongoing.

by marty2086 Thu 08 Mar 2018, 12:07 pm

munkian wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:You will not be watching your team so often on Pay channels

Ulster for example currently have every game on TV - next year probably be more like 8
If you want to watch your team now you will have to go to the ground.
For your £9.99 or what ever it is you will probably get 1 game a month (occasionally 2),
showing your team, for your money.
You will not get the full set.

You mean they aren't guaranteed Friday night KOs anymore ?

Ulster haven't been guaranteed Friday nights for a while, something like half their home games last season weren't on a Friday evening. It'll come down to the league and Ulster mostly now regardless of the broadcaster since less are to be shown on tv

by munkian Thu 08 Mar 2018, 1:08 pm

Chuckle

by No9 Thu 08 Mar 2018, 1:26 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:This will be the death of the Pro14 in Wales.

Mark my words.

I tend to agree. It will be interesting to see if the floating voters actually go to the games more - or just let the league fade into the background. The latter seems more likely given how apathetic the majority of the welsh rugby public are to domestic welsh rugby.

The only thing that might make it survive is that FreeSports channel option.

Major assumption there, that most of us can attend the games.

As an Osprey fan, living 20 miles from the Liberty (yep.. there are still a few of us considering the pathetic performances this year).. I attend as many home games as I can and also some of the Welsh away games. But with work and family commitments, I cant attend many, its simply down to being away with work and unable to get home in time for Friday night games, looking after grandchildren on Saturday/Sunday games whilst kids (grand kids parents) are in work as they often work weekends. This season, I've only managed to get to get to 3 home games.

So have relied on the televised games, that I can watch live or often have to record and watch later. Already pay silly price for Sky Sports and BT Sports (as b/band customer). There is NO WAY will I pay another £120/year to another pay to view channel. Especially as they will cherry pick the games they show, and if like Sky this season, the Welsh regional games will take second fiddle if there are Irish teams playing at the same time.

So I agree with Dowlais, this will be the death of regional rugby in Wales. I just hope we get some coverage out of the Welsh language channels..

Very very short sighted decision by the Regions and WRU, if they had any say in it.

by geoff999rugby Thu 08 Mar 2018, 1:43 pm

I have to say why bother with Sky Sports next year if Rugby Union is your game.
It is the most expensive and you dont get:

6N
European Cups
Pro14
Aviva
Welsh or Scottish Internationals

You are left with:
November and June Internationals for England and Ireland
Top 14
Southern Hemisphere stuff

Ditch Sky and buy Premier Sports and still save yourself a fair bit of money
Goes back to the complaint not enough money coming into the league.
This goes someway to addressing that.
It was never ever going to happen through free to view channels
Either we get the money or the free viewing - cant have it both ways

by marty2086 Thu 08 Mar 2018, 1:55 pm

Does anyone know if this round of tenders is even for exclusive rights? And if it's not we could end up with FTA rights being sold by Pro 14 or as someone else suggested, Premier or Eir Sports selling off the rights to games they aren't showing

by LordDowlais Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:04 pm

No9 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:This will be the death of the Pro14 in Wales.

Mark my words.

I tend to agree. It will be interesting to see if the floating voters actually go to the games more - or just let the league fade into the background. The latter seems more likely given how apathetic the majority of the welsh rugby public are to domestic welsh rugby.

The only thing that might make it survive is that FreeSports channel option.

Major assumption there, that most of us can attend the games.

As an Osprey fan, living 20 miles from the Liberty (yep.. there are still a few of us considering the pathetic performances this year).. I attend as many home games as I can and also some of the Welsh away games. But with work and family commitments, I cant attend many, its simply down to being away with work and unable to get home in time for Friday night games, looking after grandchildren on Saturday/Sunday games whilst kids (grand kids parents) are in work as they often work weekends. This season, I've only managed to get to get to 3 home games.

So have relied on the televised games, that I can watch live or often have to record and watch later. Already pay silly price for Sky Sports and BT Sports (as b/band customer). There is NO WAY will I pay another £120/year to another pay to view channel. Especially as they will cherry pick the games they show, and if like Sky this season, the Welsh regional games will take second fiddle if there are Irish teams playing at the same time.

So I agree with Dowlais, this will be the death of regional rugby in Wales. I just hope we get some coverage out of the Welsh language channels..

Very very short sighted decision by the Regions and WRU, if they had any say in it.

Thankyou No.9.

See I am not alone here.

You will be very surprised how many people in the UK depend on the free to air coverage of the Pro14 to support it. People will not pay for the subscription.

This will kill the Pro14 in the UK.

But I will happily be proved wrong.

by No9 Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:13 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:I have to say why bother with Sky Sports next year if Rugby Union is your game.
It is the most expensive and you dont get:

6N
European Cups
Pro14
Aviva
Welsh or Scottish Internationals

You are left with:
November and June Internationals for England and Ireland
Top 14
Southern Hemisphere stuff

Ditch Sky and buy Premier Sports and still save yourself a fair bit of money
Goes back to the complaint not enough money coming into the league.
This goes someway to addressing that.
It was never ever going to happen through free to view channels
Either we get the money or the free viewing - cant have it both ways

and Lions Tours..

Getting rid of Sky isnt an practical option at current, as youngest is a football fan and uses the Sky Go app (and BT app) to watch them whilst at Uni. Sort of agreement I have with him, that'll I keep them going. So for the next 3 years, guess I'll honour that.

Looks like, from next season, it'll be back to the old days (70s) of reading the Western Mail to catch up on game reports, and enjoy the 6 Nations, as that'll be the only rugby available to the majority of the general public.

Well done Pro14, how to take rugby back decades, simply to line your own pockets.

by geoff999rugby Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:13 pm

If you drop SkySports and buy Premier Sports you will be quids in and get far more NH Rugby.
If you watch it on free to air coverage only then quite frankly you cannot claim to be supporting it.
You contribute nothing to the league

by geoff999rugby Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:17 pm

No9 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:I have to say why bother with Sky Sports next year if Rugby Union is your game.
It is the most expensive and you dont get:

6N
European Cups
Pro14
Aviva
Welsh or Scottish Internationals

You are left with:
November and June Internationals for England and Ireland
Top 14
Southern Hemisphere stuff

Ditch Sky and buy Premier Sports and still save yourself a fair bit of money
Goes back to the complaint not enough money coming into the league.
This goes someway to addressing that.
It was never ever going to happen through free to view channels
Either we get the money or the free viewing - cant have it both ways

and Lions Tours..

Getting rid of Sky isnt an practical option at current, as youngest is a football fan and uses the Sky Go app (and BT app) to watch them whilst at Uni. Sort of agreement I have with him, that'll I keep them going. So for the next 3 years, guess I'll honour that.

Looks like, from next season, it'll be back to the old days (70s) of reading the Western Mail to catch up on game reports, and enjoy the 6 Nations, as that'll be the only rugby available to the majority of the general public.

Well done Pro14, how to take rugby back decades, simply to line your own pockets.

Lions tours are an occasional event not every year and over a short period - not that significant with respect to paying for TV
The last sentence is a bit of a laugh.
We have had Welsh fans on here keep banging on about the league selling itself short by not raising enough money through sponsorship and TV rights to make the teams competitive
Then when it does improve the TV rights income significantly it gets accused of lining its own pockets

You couldn't make it up Rolling Eyes

by No9 Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:28 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No9 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:This will be the death of the Pro14 in Wales.

Mark my words.

I tend to agree. It will be interesting to see if the floating voters actually go to the games more - or just let the league fade into the background. The latter seems more likely given how apathetic the majority of the welsh rugby public are to domestic welsh rugby.

The only thing that might make it survive is that FreeSports channel option.

Major assumption there, that most of us can attend the games.

As an Osprey fan, living 20 miles from the Liberty (yep.. there are still a few of us considering the pathetic performances this year).. I attend as many home games as I can and also some of the Welsh away games. But with work and family commitments, I cant attend many, its simply down to being away with work and unable to get home in time for Friday night games, looking after grandchildren on Saturday/Sunday games whilst kids (grand kids parents) are in work as they often work weekends. This season, I've only managed to get to get to 3 home games.

So have relied on the televised games, that I can watch live or often have to record and watch later. Already pay silly price for Sky Sports and BT Sports (as b/band customer). There is NO WAY will I pay another £120/year to another pay to view channel. Especially as they will cherry pick the games they show, and if like Sky this season, the Welsh regional games will take second fiddle if there are Irish teams playing at the same time.

So I agree with Dowlais, this will be the death of regional rugby in Wales. I just hope we get some coverage out of the Welsh language channels..

Very very short sighted decision by the Regions and WRU, if they had any say in it.

Thankyou No.9.

See I am not alone here.

You will be very surprised how many people in the UK depend on the free to air coverage of the Pro14 to support it. People will not pay for the subscription.

This will kill the Pro14 in the UK.

But I will happily be proved wrong.

Same here Dowlais, I hope I'm wrong, but I cant see it.

I'd like to know how much more, when sliced up, are the Pro14 clubs getting over the reported increase that the BBC offered. I'm sure when it hits the bottom line at each club, it will be peanuts compared to effect it will have on loss of fan base. It amazes me how they expect the youngsters of today to want to play a sport they dont get to see regularly. More and more valley schools are scrapping their rugby sides, so kids arent playing in school. There's less competition at school level in rugby today than back in my youth (70s). Yet they spurt out the usual, investment in grass roots rubbish, but seem to think the only investment needed is money. They also need to invest in getting the game watched, so youngsters want to play it, and going pay to view, is just going to reduce the numbers of youngsters wanting to take the game up.

When they dont get the subscriptions the TV bosses want, who is then going to pay the Pro14 clubs. And when its gone, it will never come back. This will not be good for the Pro14, and I reckon will result in 1 or maybe 2 welsh regions going to the wall before the end of this TV deal.

by SecretFly Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:30 pm

For a number of years now, certain people have noted one of their complaints being that there is not enough funding coming from broadcasters/advertisers etc; ie. the League couldn't negotiate the same funding or deals as the big two European Leagues.
I remember agreeing with that point but not in the way the movers of the point wanted me to. I said yep - for sure the Pro12/14 can't demand the same multi million deals from broadcasters because of the simple fact that the chimney-pot numbers are against us. The supposed 'dominant' member can only call on a percentage of a population of some 4 million, Wales a percentage of 2 or 3 million, Scotland a percentage of 5 million or so. Italy has a large population but unfortunately most of them don't watch or want to watch rugby.
How the hell could the Pro12 ever compete on an equal footing with English and French leagues. It was the wrong emphasis - always.

But still it kept going. We should be looking to better market ourselves to get deals of similar worth as England and France get. Pro14 is stuffed with idiots that can't get a better deal, can't sell the League well enough to put money in the bank for teams that need the lifelines, can't improve the rules to make more people watch it to get the better deals. BBC Wales is paying for everything and all other members are freeloaders etc etc.

So.............. and this is my point Wink

- it's BBC that have called the bluff of the ambitious Pro14 people (administrators+fans) and they've pretty much told the Pro14 'your product isn't worth any increased investment from us. The numbers don't add up. We're not going to be gazumped.'
So in the end, BBC (Wales or any of the regions) agree with me that its foolhardy to chase fantasy TV deals for a League that can only probably hold the interest of a percentage of the already small population under whose territory the League is run.

SA as the newbie, has a contest of its own that is a pretty big competitor to the contest two of its sides are now involved in up in the NH.

True then - this new way might be the beginning of the end of the Pro14 League in what really is becoming a saturated market anyway despite what any head guy in Pro14 might say. Ambition for more and more funding might in the long term be the very journey Pro14 didn't need. Better to have a settled and focused audience than to have these endless dreams of expansion.

I do say pure domestic Leagues are probably the better way for all of us now. Difficult to set up but worth the thought processes. Less money obviously but less dilution of that money down to Provinces/Regions/clubs. More ability to market something with a defined real border than to talk of such a spread out Pro14 League that stretches now thousands of miles but still doesn't have the populations that are willing to travel 100 or so miles to watch a relatively local game.

by No9 Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:30 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:If you drop SkySports and buy Premier Sports you will be quids in and get far more NH Rugby.
If you watch it on free to air coverage only then quite frankly you cannot claim to be supporting it.
You contribute nothing to the league

Not going to repeat myself, you obviously didn't read my earlier post.

by marty2086 Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:35 pm

SecretFly wrote:
So.............. and this is my point - it's BBC that have called the bluff of the ambitious Pro14 people (administrators+fans) and they've pretty much told the Pro14 'your product isn't worth any increased investment from us. The numbers don't add up. We're not going to be gazumped.'
So in the end, BBC (Wales or any of the regions) agree with me that its foolhardy to chase fantasy TV deals for a League that can only probably hold the interest of a percentage of the already small population under whose territory the League is run.

Except the BBC increased their offer so it seems they in fact disagree with you

by SecretFly Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:47 pm

marty2086 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
So.............. and this is my point - it's BBC that have called the bluff of the ambitious Pro14 people (administrators+fans) and they've pretty much told the Pro14 'your product isn't worth any increased investment from us. The numbers don't add up. We're not going to be gazumped.'
So in the end, BBC (Wales or any of the regions) agree with me that its foolhardy to chase fantasy TV deals for a League that can only probably hold the interest of a percentage of the already small population under whose territory the League is run.

Except the BBC increased their offer so it seems they in fact disagree with you

The offer is virtually always increased, marty - the world only moves in one direction.
Increased in relative terms but not enough to be a bid that Pro14 wanted to take on board.

My point stands. BBC know what the Pro14 was worth to them and it wasn't worth outbidding the people who got it. We are defined by our size - that other operations now offer more is down to them gambling on more than rugby and using the bidding process to improve their own visible presence in the saturated sphere of broadcasting

by LordDowlais Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:48 pm

No9 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No9 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:This will be the death of the Pro14 in Wales.

Mark my words.

I tend to agree. It will be interesting to see if the floating voters actually go to the games more - or just let the league fade into the background. The latter seems more likely given how apathetic the majority of the welsh rugby public are to domestic welsh rugby.

The only thing that might make it survive is that FreeSports channel option.

Major assumption there, that most of us can attend the games.

As an Osprey fan, living 20 miles from the Liberty (yep.. there are still a few of us considering the pathetic performances this year).. I attend as many home games as I can and also some of the Welsh away games. But with work and family commitments, I cant attend many, its simply down to being away with work and unable to get home in time for Friday night games, looking after grandchildren on Saturday/Sunday games whilst kids (grand kids parents) are in work as they often work weekends. This season, I've only managed to get to get to 3 home games.

So have relied on the televised games, that I can watch live or often have to record and watch later. Already pay silly price for Sky Sports and BT Sports (as b/band customer). There is NO WAY will I pay another £120/year to another pay to view channel. Especially as they will cherry pick the games they show, and if like Sky this season, the Welsh regional games will take second fiddle if there are Irish teams playing at the same time.

So I agree with Dowlais, this will be the death of regional rugby in Wales. I just hope we get some coverage out of the Welsh language channels..

Very very short sighted decision by the Regions and WRU, if they had any say in it.

Thankyou No.9.

See I am not alone here.

You will be very surprised how many people in the UK depend on the free to air coverage of the Pro14 to support it. People will not pay for the subscription.

This will kill the Pro14 in the UK.

But I will happily be proved wrong.

Same here Dowlais, I hope I'm wrong, but I cant see it.

I'd like to know how much more, when sliced up, are the Pro14 clubs getting over the reported increase that the BBC offered. I'm sure when it hits the bottom line at each club, it will be peanuts compared to effect it will have on loss of fan base. It amazes me how they expect the youngsters of today to want to play a sport they dont get to see regularly. More and more valley schools are scrapping their rugby sides, so kids arent playing in school. There's less competition at school level in rugby today than back in my youth (70s). Yet they spurt out the usual, investment in grass roots rubbish, but seem to think the only investment needed is money. They also need to invest in getting the game watched, so youngsters want to play it, and going pay to view, is just going to reduce the numbers of youngsters wanting to take the game up.

When they dont get the subscriptions the TV bosses want, who is then going to pay the Pro14 clubs. And when its gone, it will never come back. This will not be good for the Pro14, and I reckon will result in 1 or maybe 2 welsh regions going to the wall before the end of this TV deal.

There are people on this forum who just do not get it.

Wales is a small country, we do well to have the amount of rugby teams we have, most people who are "rugby" in Wales, do it out of love and passion, they are not committed to the regions, they are committed to their local sides, their town sides, most people here in Wales do not have the money to support more than one team, but what they could do was watch the regions on the tele around supporting their own team.

This was keeping the profile of the Pro14 alive in Wales, and I would presume Scotland as well.

I would be very surprised if 1000 people in Wales subscribed to Premier Sports for the Pro14. In fact I would wager it would be half that amount, and most of those subscriptions would be rugby clubs and pubs. This smacks of short term gain for long term fail. Why they could not sell the rights to the BBC as well as EIR/Premier sports is beyond me.

The Pro14 will be gone in Wales by the end of this deal. Unless something changes. There are 100 thousand people+ watching the Pro14 on BBC Wales every Friday.

Well done Pro14, you have just lost all that support.

by munkian Thu 08 Mar 2018, 3:01 pm

Jog on Owens

by LordDowlais Thu 08 Mar 2018, 3:01 pm

by marty2086 Thu 08 Mar 2018, 3:16 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
There are people on this forum who just do not get it.

BBC Wales out of running to show Pro 14 next season - Page 7 Irony_10

by marty2086 Thu 08 Mar 2018, 3:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Wales is a small country, we do well to have the amount of rugby teams we have, most people who are "rugby" in Wales, do it out of love and passion, they are not committed to the regions, they are committed to their local sides, their town sides, most people here in Wales do not have the money to support more than one team, but what they could do was watch the regions on the tele around supporting their own team.

So people who never spent a penny on the league to begin with will be missed? Erm

by SecretFly Thu 08 Mar 2018, 3:18 pm

Ah an old Anglia speedometer. The memories

by LordDowlais Thu 08 Mar 2018, 3:23 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Wales is a small country, we do well to have the amount of rugby teams we have, most people who are "rugby" in Wales, do it out of love and passion, they are not committed to the regions, they are committed to their local sides, their town sides, most people here in Wales do not have the money to support more than one team, but what they could do was watch the regions on the tele around supporting their own team.

So people who never spent a penny on the league to begin with will be missed?

Do you not see the amount of people who are watching the league on BBC 100+ thousand people per game. By the time this TV deal ends, people in the UK will be asking, "Whats a Pro14 ?"

But it's OK because you can always take the p!ss as usual. Rolling Eyes

by marty2086 Thu 08 Mar 2018, 3:36 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Wales is a small country, we do well to have the amount of rugby teams we have, most people who are "rugby" in Wales, do it out of love and passion, they are not committed to the regions, they are committed to their local sides, their town sides, most people here in Wales do not have the money to support more than one team, but what they could do was watch the regions on the tele around supporting their own team.

So people who never spent a penny on the league to begin with will be missed?

Do you not see the amount of people who are watching the league on BBC 100+ thousand people per game. By the time this TV deal ends, people in the UK will be asking, "Whats a Pro14 ?"

But it's OK because you can always take the p!ss as usual.

Who's taking the piss? You claimed there are people on here who just don't it, what you miss is that it's you that don't get it

If 100k are watching on BBC what are they spending on the league? Diddly!

So what advantage are those 100k to the league?

by BamBam Thu 08 Mar 2018, 3:42 pm

So if 100k people are watching the BBC, you think that less than 1% of those are willing to be paying customers?

Says a lot about Wales if you're right. I suspect you're wrong, and the clever people who model these things have got it closer to the mark

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 08 Mar 2018, 4:34 pm

No9 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:If you drop SkySports and buy Premier Sports you will be quids in and get far more NH Rugby.
If you watch it on free to air coverage only then quite frankly you cannot claim to be supporting it.
You contribute nothing to the league

Not going to repeat myself, you obviously didn't read my earlier post.

So all of the rest of us should be up in arms because you have Sky for other reasons?

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 08 Mar 2018, 4:36 pm

munkian wrote:Jog on Owens

What’ve I done to you in order to be told to jog on?

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 08 Mar 2018, 4:47 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Wales is a small country, we do well to have the amount of rugby teams we have, most people who are "rugby" in Wales, do it out of love and passion, they are not committed to the regions, they are committed to their local sides, their town sides, most people here in Wales do not have the money to support more than one team, but what they could do was watch the regions on the tele around supporting their own team.

So people who never spent a penny on the league to begin with will be missed?

Do you not see the amount of people who are watching the league on BBC 100+ thousand people per game. By the time this TV deal ends, people in the UK will be asking, "Whats a Pro14 ?"

But it's OK because you can always take the p!ss as usual.

Can’t believe I’m going to agree with Marty, but if the 100k+ that watch Scrum V Live, about 35k-45k (going on average attendances, and giving for the fact the non-season ticket support is going to be around 15k-20k fans giving that different folk turn out to different games) are regular regional attendants, and around 15-20k are season ticket holders.

So then the other 55k-65k or so if viewers do not currently attend games. They put nothing into the sides thet claim to support, and are now moaning that they can’t keep getting given stuff for nowt. If they stop watching and moaning, because it’s on pay tv then maybe that’s not such a bad thing? Or even better if they get of their bums and make the trip to the ground then even better!

The only ones who I do have sympathy for are those on North Wales, as the trip to games is not realistically an option. And they do face a choice of pay tv or no rugby.

by Pot Hale Thu 08 Mar 2018, 5:03 pm

EirSport have a license rights deal to show BT Sport as part of their subscription package.

It’s quite possible that PremierSports could do a deal with BT to be part of their BT Sports package for 2018/19 season.

Or be part of the Sky subscription packages. Sky and BT have done a deal to show each other’s content.

Alternatively, it’s a monthly subscription so you can pay to watch PremierSports for 9 months, then cancel and start again in Sept.

If the various deals add another £8-10m on top of what they were getting, then the monies are split between the three Celtic union shareholders who own the PRO14 Championship. That would be an extra £1m per club each season plus the SA additional TV money of reported £6m for splitting amongst the original PRO12 clubs. Italian TV deal monies go directly to the FIR.

Under the WRU participation agreement, all Competition Income deriving from comps organised by the WRU reverts back to the Regions as part of their contribution to the regions.

Viewer numbers in Wales could possibly reduce, other viewer numbers could increase, TV income would increase, and gates might rise too.

by Kingshu Thu 08 Mar 2018, 5:36 pm

I dont really agree with that being divided leaving the Italians and SA out.
Its being sold as a league, not based on chimney pots. We didnt like it when the Hcup monies was changed.

People in the UK are not just paying to see thier team they are paying to see their team play someone. You could argue that the provinces are the big draw.
Personally think that the TV money should be all added together each team gets a certain amont and then a certain amount is paid out each year depending on finishing position.

TV rights should be sold to view the league, not certain teams in an area.

by No9 Thu 08 Mar 2018, 6:24 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
No9 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:If you drop SkySports and buy Premier Sports you will be quids in and get far more NH Rugby.
If you watch it on free to air coverage only then quite frankly you cannot claim to be supporting it.
You contribute nothing to the league

Not going to repeat myself, you obviously didn't read my earlier post.

So all of the rest of us should be up in arms because you have Sky for other reasons?

Eh... I never said this.

by No9 Thu 08 Mar 2018, 6:36 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Wales is a small country, we do well to have the amount of rugby teams we have, most people who are "rugby" in Wales, do it out of love and passion, they are not committed to the regions, they are committed to their local sides, their town sides, most people here in Wales do not have the money to support more than one team, but what they could do was watch the regions on the tele around supporting their own team.

So people who never spent a penny on the league to begin with will be missed?

Do you not see the amount of people who are watching the league on BBC 100+ thousand people per game. By the time this TV deal ends, people in the UK will be asking, "Whats a Pro14 ?"

But it's OK because you can always take the p!ss as usual.

Can’t believe I’m going to agree with Marty, but if the 100k+ that watch Scrum V Live, about 35k-45k (going on average attendances, and giving for the fact the non-season ticket support is going to be around 15k-20k fans giving that different folk turn out to different games) are regular regional attendants, and around 15-20k are season ticket holders.

So then the other 55k-65k or so if viewers do not currently attend games. They put nothing into the sides thet claim to support, and are now moaning that they can’t keep getting given stuff for nowt. If they stop watching and moaning, because it’s on pay tv then maybe that’s not such a bad thing? Or even better if they get of their bums and make the trip to the ground then even better!

The only ones who I do have sympathy for are those on North Wales, as the trip to games is not realistically an option. And they do face a choice of pay tv or no rugby.

Again the assumption that you can get to the games...

As said earlier, I go to the Ospreys games when I can... In fact, I hold 2 season tickets (for me, wife). But due to me working away Mon-Fri, I cant get to Friday night games unless I take the day off. Not practical. We help out our grown up kids, by looking after the grandchildren on Saturdays/Sundays as they sometime work weekends. As I work away, Sundays are important to my family, to get together and enjoy a Sunday roast and family time. This means I have only managed 3 games at the Liberty this season (so far). But I still paid for my season ticket up front and will next season (probably).

But I rely on being able to watch the games on the TV (recorded mostly) on a Friday when I get home from a long week. Or late Saturday after the grandkids have gone home..

But, thanks for making the sweeping comment that I'm not a supporter because I want everything free on the TV.

IF, I paid for the new Pay for View service to watch games, then something has to give... I know, I'll have to forget a season ticket, so the Ospreys lose out one way or the other.

It must be so nice to live in such a simple world that your only a supporter if you go to the games... Have respect for what you usually say SS, but this time your talking out of your backside with no knowledge or understanding of others commitments.

by LordDowlais Thu 08 Mar 2018, 7:09 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Wales is a small country, we do well to have the amount of rugby teams we have, most people who are "rugby" in Wales, do it out of love and passion, they are not committed to the regions, they are committed to their local sides, their town sides, most people here in Wales do not have the money to support more than one team, but what they could do was watch the regions on the tele around supporting their own team.

So people who never spent a penny on the league to begin with will be missed?

Do you not see the amount of people who are watching the league on BBC 100+ thousand people per game. By the time this TV deal ends, people in the UK will be asking, "Whats a Pro14 ?"

But it's OK because you can always take the p!ss as usual.

Can’t believe I’m going to agree with Marty, but if the 100k+ that watch Scrum V Live, about 35k-45k (going on average attendances, and giving for the fact the non-season ticket support is going to be around 15k-20k fans giving that different folk turn out to different games) are regular regional attendants, and around 15-20k are season ticket holders.

So then the other 55k-65k or so if viewers do not currently attend games. They put nothing into the sides thet claim to support, and are now moaning that they can’t keep getting given stuff for nowt. If they stop watching and moaning, because it’s on pay tv then maybe that’s not such a bad thing? Or even better if they get of their bums and make the trip to the ground then even better!

The only ones who I do have sympathy for are those on North Wales, as the trip to games is not realistically an option. And they do face a choice of pay tv or no rugby.

Christ on a bike.

Am I actually reading this ????

I cannot fathom the arrogance of what you have written here.

Have you ever stopped and thought of the thousands of people involved in rugby in Wales who because of other commitments cannot either be in two places at once, or cannot afford to be at two games ?

Consider the Welsh premiership, the supporters, the players, the people involved, and work your way down through the leagues. Most of these people cannot be in two places, or afford it. But perhaps they still like to watch the Pro14, and the BBC were providing the service for it,but feck all these people because they are not proper fans
because they do not go to the regional games, is that what you are saying ?

Now consider as well, that South Wales is one of the poorest area of the UK, now you expect these people to pay between £10/15 quid a month for a channel that may or may not show the Welsh regions. But at least we will get gealic sports, Belgian football, Ice hockey and Aussie rules to pad the channel with.

by Pot Hale Thu 08 Mar 2018, 7:27 pm

LordDowlais wrote:

Now consider as well, that South Wales is one of the poorest area of the UK, now you expect these people to pay between £10/15 quid a month for a channel that may or may not show the Welsh regions. But at least we will get gealic sports, Belgian football, Ice hockey and Aussie rules to pad the channel with.

If Premier Sports have been awarded the rights to broadcast PRO14 Welsh and Scottish home games in Wales and Scotland and are paying more than BBC, what logic are you using to think they wouldn't show them? The current price is £10 a month - payable for 9 months of the year if you just want Sept to May.

by SecretFly Thu 08 Mar 2018, 7:33 pm

So to clarify for Lord - and all of us really - will Premier Sports show Scottish centric games to people in Scotland, Welsh centric games to people in Wales even though the games are on at the same time?

Or will they - as I think Lord is concerned about - simply show one of the games UK-wide?

by marty2086 Thu 08 Mar 2018, 7:35 pm

LordDowlais wrote:

Christ on a bike.

Am I actually reading this ????

I cannot fathom the arrogance of what you have written here.

Have you ever stopped and thought of the thousands of people involved in rugby in Wales who because of other commitments cannot either be in two places at once, or cannot afford to be at two games ?

Consider the Welsh premiership, the supporters, the players, the people involved, and work your way down through the leagues. Most of these people cannot be in two places, or afford it. But perhaps they still like to watch the Pro14, and the BBC were providing the service for it,but feck all these people because they are not proper fans
because they do not go to the regional games, is that what you are saying ?

Now consider as well, that South Wales is one of the poorest area of the UK, now you expect these people to pay between £10/15 quid a month for a channel that may or may not show the Welsh regions. But at least we will get gealic sports, Belgian football, Ice hockey and Aussie rules to pad the channel with.

And still you've not been able to explain what the the league are losing by these people not subscribing to Premier Sports

by Guest Thu 08 Mar 2018, 8:20 pm

Some people are used to free rugby. This is different and, therefore, potentially threatening to some in terms of some cost implication for something that has always been free (and therefore something that is ingrained culturally and perhaps considered tradition). Adding a cost and making it more complicated to view would always cause an outpouring of grief and fear. We’ve seen similar when other sports have gone from the beeb to pay tv.

I agree with some of what LD is saying. But I don’t understand the made up and guessed numbers (e.g. ‘there will be less than 1000 subscribers from Wales’). It really doesn’t help your argument, LD!

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 08 Mar 2018, 8:56 pm

No 9: if people can’t make the games then the money they would’ve spent on a ticket could go on that months Premier Sports. It’s an opt in opt out thing, one month at a time. Seeing as the moment Sky took some of the broadcasting we knew it was going to go to a pay TV deal, that will be of benefit to those who don’t have Sky or BT. We all have other commitments, families, bills to pay, jobs etc. I’d love the games to be televised for free still, but that is not longer an option. So it’s a case of trying to see a silverlining rather than just ranting about how it is unjust and screwing me over.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 08 Mar 2018, 9:12 pm

Lord - let’s flip it on its head, and try to find a positive. The Beeb have a slot open on their schedule now. Maybe they could be using the Scrum V Live time to cover a Welsh Prem game etc.

The choice of what people do in their free time is up to them. If they chose to watch regional/Welsh prem/village Rugby then that is their choice, and each has its merits. But you can’t expect the others to jiggle around, and make decisions to suit them. I missed watching Scotland v England, because the Scarlets were playing Ulster, and I had to drive to the game. I didn’t get in my high horse and whinge at the international fans about how it’s unfair on me because I chose to attend a regional game.

by LeinsterFan4life Thu 08 Mar 2018, 9:14 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Wales is a small country, we do well to have the amount of rugby teams we have, most people who are "rugby" in Wales, do it out of love and passion, they are not committed to the regions, they are committed to their local sides, their town sides, most people here in Wales do not have the money to support more than one team, but what they could do was watch the regions on the tele around supporting their own team.

So people who never spent a penny on the league to begin with will be missed?

Do you not see the amount of people who are watching the league on BBC 100+ thousand people per game. By the time this TV deal ends, people in the UK will be asking, "Whats a Pro14 ?"

But it's OK because you can always take the p!ss as usual.

Can’t believe I’m going to agree with Marty, but if the 100k+ that watch Scrum V Live, about 35k-45k (going on average attendances, and giving for the fact the non-season ticket support is going to be around 15k-20k fans giving that different folk turn out to different games) are regular regional attendants, and around 15-20k are season ticket holders.

So then the other 55k-65k or so if viewers do not currently attend games. They put nothing into the sides thet claim to support, and are now moaning that they can’t keep getting given stuff for nowt. If they stop watching and moaning, because it’s on pay tv then maybe that’s not such a bad thing? Or even better if they get of their bums and make the trip to the ground then even better!

The only ones who I do have sympathy for are those on North Wales, as the trip to games is not realistically an option. And they do face a choice of pay tv or no rugby.

Christ on a bike.

Am I actually reading this ????

I cannot fathom the arrogance of what you have written here.

Have you ever stopped and thought of the thousands of people involved in rugby in Wales who because of other commitments cannot either be in two places at once, or cannot afford to be at two games ?

Consider the Welsh premiership, the supporters, the players, the people involved, and work your way down through the leagues. Most of these people cannot be in two places, or afford it. But perhaps they still like to watch the Pro14, and the BBC were providing the service for it,but feck all these people because they are not proper fans
because they do not go to the regional games, is that what you are saying ?

Now consider as well, that South Wales is one of the poorest area of the UK, now you expect these people to pay between £10/15 quid a month for a channel that may or may not show the Welsh regions. But at least we will get gealic sports, Belgian football, Ice hockey and Aussie rules to pad the channel with.

Are the Welsh the only ones with these extra commitments then? My local rugby club always play on a Saturday no matter what's on, even on 6 nations weekends. Why do these excuses only apply to the Welsh?

by **RiscaGame** Thu 08 Mar 2018, 9:20 pm

Only some of the Welsh, not all.

by SecretFly Thu 08 Mar 2018, 9:45 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Lord - let’s flip it on its head, and try to find a positive. The Beeb have a slot open on their schedule now. Maybe they could be using the Scrum V Live time to cover a Welsh Prem game etc.

The choice of what people do in their free time is up to them. If they chose to watch regional/Welsh prem/village Rugby then that is their choice, and each has its merits. But you can’t expect the others to jiggle around, and make decisions to suit them. I missed watching Scotland v England, because the Scarlets were playing Ulster, and I had to drive to the game. I didn’t get in my high horse and whinge at the international fans about how it’s unfair on me because I chose to attend a regional game.

Yes but.......... the Scotland v England game should have been delayed. World Rugby are just being a little heavy handed with the authority lately.

by Pot Hale Thu 08 Mar 2018, 10:35 pm

SecretFly wrote:So to clarify for Lord - and all of us really - will Premier Sports show Scottish centric games to people in Scotland, Welsh centric games to people in Wales even though the games are on at the same time?

Or will they - as I think Lord is concerned about - simply show one of the games UK-wide?

Well here’s some possible combinations for next season assuming they also give some games to language FTA channels

Round 1 -
Friday Ulster v Scarlets EirSport/S4C
Sat 5pm Cardiff v Munster, PRemSport/TG4, Zebre v Glasgow, Eurosport, Leinster v Ospreys, EirSport, Cheetahs v Connacht, SuperSport;
7pm Edinburgh v Benetton, BBC Alba, Kings v Dragons, SuperSport.

Round 4 - Big Weekend 1
Fri Ulster v Connacht EirSport/TG4
Sat Leinster v Munster EirSport; Cardiff v Ospreys, PremSport; Glasgow v Benetton, BBC Alba,
7pm Zebre v Edinburgh, Eurosport; Dragons v Scarlets PremSport/S4C

by Cardiff Dave Fri 09 Mar 2018, 5:55 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Wales is a small country, we do well to have the amount of rugby teams we have, most people who are "rugby" in Wales, do it out of love and passion, they are not committed to the regions, they are committed to their local sides, their town sides, most people here in Wales do not have the money to support more than one team, but what they could do was watch the regions on the tele around supporting their own team.

So people who never spent a penny on the league to begin with will be missed?

Do you not see the amount of people who are watching the league on BBC 100+ thousand people per game. By the time this TV deal ends, people in the UK will be asking, "Whats a Pro14 ?"

But it's OK because you can always take the p!ss as usual.

Can’t believe I’m going to agree with Marty, but if the 100k+ that watch Scrum V Live, about 35k-45k (going on average attendances, and giving for the fact the non-season ticket support is going to be around 15k-20k fans giving that different folk turn out to different games) are regular regional attendants, and around 15-20k are season ticket holders.

So then the other 55k-65k or so if viewers do not currently attend games. They put nothing into the sides thet claim to support, and are now moaning that they can’t keep getting given stuff for nowt. If they stop watching and moaning, because it’s on pay tv then maybe that’s not such a bad thing? Or even better if they get of their bums and make the trip to the ground then even better!

The only ones who I do have sympathy for are those on North Wales, as the trip to games is not realistically an option. And they do face a choice of pay tv or no rugby.

Christ on a bike.

Am I actually reading this ????

I cannot fathom the arrogance of what you have written here.

Have you ever stopped and thought of the thousands of people involved in rugby in Wales who because of other commitments cannot either be in two places at once, or cannot afford to be at two games ?

Consider the Welsh premiership, the supporters, the players, the people involved, and work your way down through the leagues. Most of these people cannot be in two places, or afford it. But perhaps they still like to watch the Pro14, and the BBC were providing the service for it,but feck all these people because they are not proper fans
because they do not go to the regional games, is that what you are saying ?

Now consider as well, that South Wales is one of the poorest area of the UK, now you expect these people to pay between £10/15 quid a month for a channel that may or may not show the Welsh regions. But at least we will get gealic sports, Belgian football, Ice hockey and Aussie rules to pad the channel with.
Are the Welsh the only ones with these extra commitments then? My local rugby club always play on a Saturday no matter what's on, even on 6 nations weekends. Why do these excuses only apply to the Welsh?

To add fuel to the fire, lots of Welsh clubs play their games at the same time as the reejunal double header big p!ss-up in Cardiff.
Back to the Beeb; The Gabby and Gareth show last night. Feckin 'ell!

by munkian Fri 09 Mar 2018, 7:57 am

I don't give a rat's arse if the people who don't financially contribute to the league can't watch professional sport for free.

by **RiscaGame** Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:20 am

Amen.

by LordDowlais Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:26 am

The Oracle wrote:I agree with some of what LD is saying. But I don’t understand the made up and guessed numbers (e.g. ‘there will be less than 1000 subscribers from Wales’). It really doesn’t help your argument, LD!

Hi Oracle,

Honestly, how many subscribers do you reckon there will be in Wales ?

The 100k+ figure is what I have taken from the news outlets on the WWW.

I honestly am of the opinion that hardly anybody in Wales will subscribe to Premier Sports for an extra tenner a month just to watch the Pro14.

by geoff999rugby Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:26 am

No9 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:If you drop SkySports and buy Premier Sports you will be quids in and get far more NH Rugby.
If you watch it on free to air coverage only then quite frankly you cannot claim to be supporting it.
You contribute nothing to the league

Not going to repeat myself, you obviously didn't read my earlier post.

I did read your post - my comment was a general one and not directed to any one person.
A number here claiming the extra cost is unacceptable I was merely pointing out two simple facts.

People who don't go to the grounds and only watch free to view contribute nothing to the league
Secondly Sky offer very very little next year for Rugby supporters and Premier sports do and are considerably cheaper than Sky

As such a big +1 to Munkian and Risca
If you contribute nothing you will, now, get nothing.
I have no problem with that
LD not arrogant - if you don't contribute you are doing nothing to sustain the league - you get the luxury of free to view matches solely because of those who do put money into the game.

by SecretFly Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:28 am

munkian wrote:I don't give a rat's arse if the people who don't financially contribute to the league can't watch professional sport for free.

Well as always in life, it's a little more convoluted and complex than all that though.
You see, let's take the Pro14. Main sponsors Guinness. Where do Guinness get the money to sponsor a professional sport?

Drunks. Wink

People who habitually drink loads of Guinness on a regular basis pay the money that pays the League that allows subscribers to pay for their viewing preferences.
A LOT of people who never watch rugby pay for the rugby that is watched.
Now spread that out for all advertisers involved in Pro14 and other Leagues and sports - small and large contributors. Everyone pays for everything - nothing is free.

by LordDowlais Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:30 am

geoff999rugby wrote:People who don't go to the grounds and only watch free to view contribute nothing to the league

What an arrogant statement to make. Rolling Eyes

There are many fans in Wales who cannot make it to the ground, or afford to pay for a channel. But they support their regions in other ways, you just need to look at the amount of people wearing Ospreys tops in my own town, and most of these people watch one of their local sides, then watch their region on the tele, they cannot afford both.

by No9 Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:32 am

My final word on it:-

1. Who says its currently for free. We pay a TV licence and a portion of that goes to the Pro14, so its not for free. It’s just we’re now going to have to pay EXTRA, and probably not get the same level of coverage that we get now. So we have to pay more for less.

2. Even the most hardy and well off fan cant travel to all away games. So they will now have to pay more to watch those.

3. It takes away flexibility, allowing those who cant get to games live to watch or record to watch later, hence effectively reducing the fan base and failing to publicise the game.

4. It will stop many young kids watching the game with their fathers and grandfathers. This will result in future loss of rugby fans and simply kill the game at the grass roots. Without considering the health benefits kids get from playing.

5. Loss of merchandising. As less is seen on TV, there will be less shirts and rugby club merchandise sold.

Basically, appreciate the Pro14 has to maximise its revenue streams, but sometime the fast buck is the wrong option for longevity. In this case, I really believe its the wrong option.

And one final point, which I have seen on this site for years. I wonder how many of you who support and argue the case for on this thread, will be making other threads next season trying to find “free” streaming sites to watch the games.

Made my point, its happening, I’m not happy, but time to leave be and just accept it. So by all means question and berate me for my opinions as some will, but don’t expect me to respond on this further.

by BamBam Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:33 am

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:I agree with some of what LD is saying. But I don’t understand the made up and guessed numbers (e.g. ‘there will be less than 1000 subscribers from Wales’). It really doesn’t help your argument, LD!

Hi Oracle,

Honestly, how many subscribers do you reckon there will be in Wales ?

The 100k+ figure is what I have taken from the news outlets on the WWW.

I honestly am of the opinion that hardly anybody in Wales will subscribe to Premier Sports for an extra tenner a month just to watch the Pro14.

Do you believe that Premier Sports is in the business of making money? If no - why not?

If yes, do you think they took the decision to hand over £x million for rugby rights without considering whether it will attract enough subscribers and advertising revenue to make it worthwhile? Both go hand in hand - advertising revenue isn't going to come in without the viewers

If you agree with that logic - why do you think you know more than them? I'd be stunned if less than 1% of the viewers on BBC Wales were willing to pay

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