BBC Wales out of running to show Pro 14 next season

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43302261

Live coverage of club rugby will not be shown on BBC Two Wales next season after the BBC failed to reach a deal to continue broadcasting the Pro 14 tournament.

Competition organisers are understood to have awarded the UK rights to a pay-TV service, but BBC Wales had hoped to continue broadcasting games in Wales.

It means viewers will no longer be able to watch club games on free-to-air television in English. Negotiations over Welsh language rights are ongoing.

LordDowlais wrote:Something isn't right about this latest TV deal. It just isn't. The Irish broadcasters must be laughing their heads off at the UK based fans. They must see us as a way of making a quick buck, off the back of the Pro14.

I will wait and see if S4C still gets rights. If they do not, then even then, even you, cannot deny that something is not right here. Because all of a sudden, free to air coverage is OK, but that's because it's TG4.

eirSports won the rights in Ireland, you have been complaining about it since it happened, they therefore own the rights. They are theirs to do as they please.

PremierSports have a free to air channel they need content for, they have bought the rights in the UK to the Pro14. Logic dictates that they will show the Pro14 on it. If S4C don't get the games its because PremierSports didn't want to sell the rights to them or weren't offered enough.

That's a crock of crap.

Really? So did eirSports win the Irish rights or not?

EirSport bought the Irish rights. If they didn't buy them, they would have been sold to Sky.
TG4 have bought the secondary rights.

SecretFly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:BBC Wales made a significantly higher offer than previously. This is a fact. I doubt very much TG4 have made an offer as big as BBC Wales did.
So you tell me, why would TG4 a free to air channel in Ireland get TV rights, and BBC Wales, a free to air TV channel in the UK not get any rights ?

They have better negotiators?

It keeps coming back to the question of who do you blame for either bad or non-existent negotiating skills.

The Welsh Regions need Roger Lewis back to do their negotiating for them.

LordDowlais wrote:Something isn't right about this latest TV deal. It just isn't. The Irish broadcasters must be laughing their heads off at the UK based fans. They must see us as a way of making a quick buck, off the back of the Pro14.

I will wait and see if S4C still gets rights. If they do not, then even then, even you, cannot deny that something is not right here. Because all of a sudden, free to air coverage is OK, but that's because it's TG4.

What's not right?  Be more specific.  'Something is not right' is not good enough.  Where is the weak point in Irish fans presumably getting everything they want in the deal but Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland getting little of what they want.  Even if you link up NI to the Republic and class us as one entity, that still leaves two partners in Pro14 not happy.  Who gets the blame for that, Lord?  Broadcasters, SRU/WRU, Regional bosses, BBC?  Who?

Pot Hale wrote:  However, if you want to watch PRO14 and European matches, then based on current pricing, it would be cheaper in Ireland.  

Thanks for clarifying.

So just to know where we are, is free to air TV OK now to watch the Pro14 on ?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:  However, if you want to watch PRO14 and European matches, then based on current pricing, it would be cheaper in Ireland.  

Thanks for clarifying.

Well done you taking it all out of context

LordDowlais wrote:So just to know where we are, is free to air TV OK now to watch the Pro14 on ?

My view

BamBam wrote:The tone was that the league needed more money - that seemed to be agreed by most.

Fans who want to watch in English will still need to contribute and pay for EIR Sports.

The general tone on here was that fans aren't entitled to FTA rugby - contribution etc came afterwards following the discussions on how poor the Welsh fans are.

Primary objective - get the most money in
Secondary objective - keep the fans happy

If the secondary objective happens to be met by getting the most money in (like in Ireland), then great. If not (as in the Welsh rights case) - tough

That's not an answer.

answer me

SecretFly wrote:What's not right?  Be more specific.  'Something is not right' is not good enough.  Where is the weak point in Irish fans presumably getting everything they want in the deal but Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland getting little of what they want.  Even if you link up NI to the Republic and class us as one entity, that still leaves two partners in Pro14 not happy.  Who gets the blame for that, Lord?  Broadcasters, SRU/WRU, Regional bosses, BBC?  Who?

People in Northern Ireland can still get access to the TV from the republic. So that's a no goer.

BBC Wales bid significantly more for the rights, yet were not successful, yet TG4 seem to have been triumphant with their bidding process. It seems to me that EIR Sports want the UK public to have to cough up to watch the Pro14, but people in Ireland are exempt from this extra payment.

So, is free to air Pro14 still OK ? I am waiting for an answer.

No, answer me!

Answer everyone!

LordDowlais wrote:That's not an answer.

Yes it is.

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:What's not right?  Be more specific.  'Something is not right' is not good enough.  Where is the weak point in Irish fans presumably getting everything they want in the deal but Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland getting little of what they want.  Even if you link up NI to the Republic and class us as one entity, that still leaves two partners in Pro14 not happy.  Who gets the blame for that, Lord?  Broadcasters, SRU/WRU, Regional bosses, BBC?  Who?

People in Northern Ireland can still get access to the TV from the republic. So that's a no goer.

BBC Wales bid significantly more for the rights, yet were not successful, yet TG4 seem to have been triumphant with their bidding process. It seems to me that EIR want the UK public to have to cough up to watch the Pro14, but people in Ireland are exempt from this extra payment.

So, is free to air Pro14 still OK ? I am waiting for an answer.

Except EirSports will have to block out Pro14 coverage to their NI viewers like Irish channels have to do with the likes of Coronation Street and the Champions League

You do realise that the Pro14 will likely be FTA in the UK too?

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:What's not right?  Be more specific.  'Something is not right' is not good enough.  Where is the weak point in Irish fans presumably getting everything they want in the deal but Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland getting little of what they want.  Even if you link up NI to the Republic and class us as one entity, that still leaves two partners in Pro14 not happy.  Who gets the blame for that, Lord?  Broadcasters, SRU/WRU, Regional bosses, BBC?  Who?

People in Northern Ireland can still get access to the TV from the republic. So that's a no goer.

BBC Wales bid significantly more for the rights, yet were not successful, yet TG4 seem to have been triumphant with their bidding process. It seems to me that EIR Sports want the UK public to have to cough up to watch the Pro14, but people in Ireland are exempt from this extra payment.

So, is free to air Pro14 still OK ? I am waiting for an answer.

So EIR want to give Irish viewers a present of not having to pay?

Nice of them. But given that I have EIR that makes me have to subsidise the f**king Irish freeloaders that have Sky and BT or whatnot.....

F**k 'em all!!!!!!!

Anybody care to answer me ?

Is free to air Pro14 now OK ?

marty2086 wrote:Except EirSports will have to block out Pro14 coverage to their NI viewers like Irish channels have to do with the likes of Coronation Street and the Champions League

Right'o.

FFS.

LordDowlais wrote:Anybody care to answer me ?

Is free to air Pro14 now OK ?

You've been answered. Just because its not the answer you like doesn't mean its not an answer

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Anybody care to answer me ?

Is free to air Pro14 now OK ?

You've been answered. Just because its not the answer you like doesn't mean its not an answer

NO I have not.

A simple yes or no will do.

I will ask again, is free to air Pro14 now OK ?

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Except EirSports will have to block out Pro14 coverage to their NI viewers like Irish channels have to do with the likes of Coronation Street and the Champions League

Right'o.

FFS.

So that's how you react when your ignorance on a matter is highlighted?

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Anybody care to answer me ?

Is free to air Pro14 now OK ?

You've been answered. Just because its not the answer you like doesn't mean its not an answer

NO I have not.

A simple yes or no will do.

I will ask again, is free to air Pro14 now OK ?

Except it's not simple

Then lets have a straight answer then BamBam. You were humping the Irish legs on here just to get one over on me, and you now cannot give a straight answer, you were giving it all the billy big balls about people in Wales not contributing anything to the league whilst having access to the Pro14 on BBC Wales.

So now that it's on TG4, is it OK now ?

Come on, a simple yes or now will do, get off that fence, come on.

LordDowlais wrote:Anybody care to answer me ?

Is free to air Pro14 now OK ?

I'd prefer a single pay tv broadcaster myself. I expect bbc alba and/or s4c will get a match per week too. If not then that satellite tv station that's free.

You can't knock the pro14 for trying to get the best tv deal there is. It was reported that the whole shebang would now be worth an extra £2.8m per annum from the previous deal. Still way off our competitors but it's better than nothing.

The only worries I have are:

1) Lack of exposure in the UK. The league will barely be visible. Premier Sport is a tiny broadcaster. Short term this will be fine. But it's hardly going to inspire the next generation of rugby playing kids.
2) Long term viability of the deal. Lets hope Premier Sports have a thorough business plan, which isn't reliant on additional pro14 subscriptions.

RugbyFan100 wrote:I'd prefer a single pay tv broadcaster myself

Except it will be a single pay broadcaster

But is it now OK to have the Pro14 accessible to people who will not contribute anything to the league ?

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:I'd prefer a single pay tv broadcaster myself

Except it will be a single pay broadcaster

You bore me.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:I'd prefer a single pay tv broadcaster myself

Except it will be a single pay broadcaster

You bore me.

Sorry for highlighting the flaw in your argument but nice of you to clarify your position so thoroughly and maturely

LordDowlais wrote:But is it now OK to have the Pro14 accessible to people who will not contribute anything to the league ?

They can do what they want, you lose them you lose nothing you gain them you gain nothing they are irrelevant from a business standpoint. They are mere window shoppers

Come on marty, lets get a straight answer here.

I was told that free to air was the problem as people would watch it without contributing to the league, a simple yes or no will suffice, is free to air OK now ?

It's all gone quiet over there.....

This thread has had a tidy up both for posts and posters

free to air is not the problem.
FTA is fine BUT if a pay channel steps in and provides extra income to the league, especially when many here have been claiming that the league has been undersold with respect to broadcasting rights, those same people are not in a position to complain, given their virtually non existent contribution to the income of the league.

As a non ST fan I know where there have been games I haven't attended because I have had to work late on a Friday and not fancied the rush or it's been crappy weather and sitting in the warmth of my own home in front of the tv has been more inviting.

With games less likely to be on tv it's a bigger incentive for me to get a ST.

The whole thing is more complex because we don't know how Premier will show the games, will it be all subscription or will we get some FTA on FreeSport, will they even sell off some rights to some games like eir have done and how much does Pro14 get, if anything, from the TG4 deal.

God, it's the strangest feeling walking in to a discussion you think you've just had only to find it obliterated from the face of the planet forever.....................


It's probably tragic that such meaningful words from so many lofty contributors gets dumped into the 'never happened' bin.

Why don't yis all just be f**king more nice to each other and our words would live forev.......................................................................................................

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Anybody care to answer me ?

Is free to air Pro14 now OK ?

I'd prefer a single pay tv broadcaster myself. I expect bbc alba and/or s4c will get a match per week too. If not then that satellite tv station that's free.

You can't knock the pro14 for trying to get the best tv deal there is. It was reported that the whole shebang would now be worth an extra £2.8m per annum from the previous deal. Still way off our competitors but it's better than nothing.

The only worries I have are:

1) Lack of exposure in the UK. The league will barely be visible. Premier Sport is a tiny broadcaster. Short term this will be fine. But it's hardly going to inspire the next generation of rugby playing kids.
2) Long term viability of the deal. Lets hope Premier Sports have a thorough business plan, which isn't  reliant on additional pro14 subscriptions.

Good post rugby fan. Do we know how long the t.v is signed for? If this is a failed adventure, I'm sure that the BBC etc would jump at the chance to regain the rights of the pro14 want to go back down the FTA route. This is a risk, but one worth taking imo... I don't there's much to lose here

The Oracle wrote:No, answer me!

Answer everyone!

Prove your sources are right, I don’t need to prove mine.

Nothing like the Pro14 if you want a circular argument with no end in sight

Just to point out exclusive rights for the pro14 in Ireland were sold to Eir sports. Then extra money was payed by tg4 to show some games FTA in Ireland. So that's more money coming in.The uk rights sold to premier sports. And similar deals are being looked at to bring more money into the league for FATA games.

Isn't that good?

Just to point out exclusive rights for the pro14 in Ireland were sold to Eir sports. Then extra money was payed by tg4 to show some games FTA in Ireland. So that's more money coming in.The uk rights sold to premier sports. And similar deals are being looked at to bring more money into the league for FATA games.

Isn't that good?

carpet baboon wrote:Just to point  out exclusive rights for the pro14 in Ireland were sold to Eir sports. Then extra money was payed by tg4 to show some games FTA in Ireland. So that's more money coming in.The uk rights sold to premier sports. And similar deals are being looked at to bring more money into the league for FATA games.

Isn't that good?

Are you sure tg4 didn't just pay Eir Sports for some of the games?  So it's not extra money into the league.  It's extra money into Eir Sports' pockets.  Similarly, if s4c wanted to put on some FTA games in Wales then they'd pay money to Premier Sports TV and not pay money to the league, surely?

I'm all for the extra money into the league though.  I've not got issues with the lack of FTA.  It means I'll see less games and my interest might wane a bit with the league, but the league should be stronger for it (the extra money).

carpet baboon wrote:Just to point  out exclusive rights for the pro14 in Ireland were sold to Eir sports. Then extra money was payed by tg4 to show some games FTA in Ireland. So that's more money coming in.The uk rights sold to premier sports. And similar deals are being looked at to bring more money into the league for FATA games.

Isn't that good?

It depends who gets the money though, if eir got exclusive rights as we are led to believe, then TG4 would have been the one selling the rights but it all depends on what kind of deal the league struck with eir and other broadcasters if they get anything from the deal for FTA rights

The Oracle wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Just to point  out exclusive rights for the pro14 in Ireland were sold to Eir sports. Then extra money was payed by tg4 to show some games FTA in Ireland. So that's more money coming in.The uk rights sold to premier sports. And similar deals are being looked at to bring more money into the league for FATA games.

Isn't that good?

Are you sure tg4 didn't just pay Eir Sports for some of the games?  So it's not extra money into the league.  It's extra money into Eir Sports' pockets.  Similarly, if s4c wanted to put on some FTA games in Wales then they'd pay money to Premier Sports TV and not pay money to the league, surely?

I'm all for the extra money into the league though.  I've not got issues with the lack of FTA.  It means I'll see less games and my interest might wane a bit with the league, but the league should be stronger for it (the extra money).

Well...........................

you see there'd have been talks before deals - over the months or over the years.  "If we do this, will you be in the mood to do that?"

So I'm sure Eir Sports talked with TG4 in advance of any deal with Pro14 - talked it through - had some idea that TG4 would be in the market for some games, factored that in to their overall offer to Pro14.  Meaning Eir, plus what TG4 were willing to pay Eir, was the foundation of the money offer put to Pro14.  

I'd assume that's how the TG4 bit Does help boost the money going to Pro14 (however relatively small it is in overall terms.)

The Oracle wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Just to point  out exclusive rights for the pro14 in Ireland were sold to Eir sports. Then extra money was payed by tg4 to show some games FTA in Ireland. So that's more money coming in.The uk rights sold to premier sports. And similar deals are being looked at to bring more money into the league for FATA games.

Isn't that good?

Are you sure tg4 didn't just pay Eir Sports for some of the games?  So it's not extra money into the league.  It's extra money into Eir Sports' pockets.  Similarly, if s4c wanted to put on some FTA games in Wales then they'd pay money to Premier Sports TV and not pay money to the league, surely?

I'm all for the extra money into the league though.  I've not got issues with the lack of FTA.  It means I'll see less games and my interest might wane a bit with the league, but the league should be stronger for it (the extra money).

From what I have read I believe the money was to the league or possibly some division between the two.
But as no details have been released this is just going off the wording g from the statements issued from pro14.
So I could be wrong

carpet baboon wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Just to point  out exclusive rights for the pro14 in Ireland were sold to Eir sports. Then extra money was payed by tg4 to show some games FTA in Ireland. So that's more money coming in.The uk rights sold to premier sports. And similar deals are being looked at to bring more money into the league for FATA games.

Isn't that good?

Are you sure tg4 didn't just pay Eir Sports for some of the games?  So it's not extra money into the league.  It's extra money into Eir Sports' pockets.  Similarly, if s4c wanted to put on some FTA games in Wales then they'd pay money to Premier Sports TV and not pay money to the league, surely?

I'm all for the extra money into the league though.  I've not got issues with the lack of FTA.  It means I'll see less games and my interest might wane a bit with the league, but the league should be stronger for it (the extra money).

From what I have read I believe the money was to the league or possibly some division between the two.
But as no details have been released this is just going off the wording g from the statements issued from pro14.
So I could be wrong

Not saying you're wrong, carpet baboon! Guess I was just thinking out loud. With my very limited knowledge of how TV deals are negotiated, I was presuming that if one company won exclusive rights by bidding the most then another company would have to pay the first company to buy some games from them, rather than paying the league. But Fly makes a good point. If the first company bid more because it had some assurances from other TV companies that they would be paying them to buy up the scraps then in a way it's money into the league, sort of indirectly.

The Oracle wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Just to point  out exclusive rights for the pro14 in Ireland were sold to Eir sports. Then extra money was payed by tg4 to show some games FTA in Ireland. So that's more money coming in.The uk rights sold to premier sports. And similar deals are being looked at to bring more money into the league for FATA games.

Isn't that good?

Are you sure tg4 didn't just pay Eir Sports for some of the games?  So it's not extra money into the league.  It's extra money into Eir Sports' pockets.  Similarly, if s4c wanted to put on some FTA games in Wales then they'd pay money to Premier Sports TV and not pay money to the league, surely?

I'm all for the extra money into the league though.  I've not got issues with the lack of FTA.  It means I'll see less games and my interest might wane a bit with the league, but the league should be stronger for it (the extra money).

From what I have read I believe the money was to the league or possibly some division between the two.
But as no details have been released this is just going off the wording g from the statements issued from pro14.
So I could be wrong

Not saying you're wrong, carpet baboon!  Guess I was just thinking out loud.  With my very limited knowledge of how TV deals are negotiated, I was presuming that if one company won exclusive rights by bidding the most then another company would have to pay the first company to buy some games from them, rather than paying the league.  But Fly makes a good point.  If the first company bid more because it had some assurances from other TV companies that they would be paying them to buy up the scraps then in a way it's money into the league, sort of indirectly.  

I believe that's more or less right but the owner of the property will normally retain certain rights even when it comes on to reselling parts, and often can sell sections that have not been specifically sold as exclusive.
If you look at the premiere league they group there matches into groups then the company's bid of each individual group. I'm could be wrong but I think pro14 always had the intention for a "home language" station to broadcast FTA games so more than likely held a small percentage back, or had it written into the intital tender

With TG4 getting the secondary Irish rights, doesn't that raise the possibility that the British rights will be on free to air TV. Maybe not BBC but it could be itv or some other channel.

profitius wrote:With TG4 getting the secondary Irish rights, doesn't that raise the possibility that the British rights will be on free to air TV. Maybe not BBC but it could be itv or some other channel.

I had a similar thought. We are all upset that the Beeb have said they are out, but what if ITV are looking to add live rugby to their porfolio, or Channel 5 maybe? ITV have the regional channels the same as BBC so it is possible they could do it like that, or throw it on ITV 4 and replace the old You've Been Framed repeats for something else.

Also from a Welsh point of view, the Beeb have a slot open on Friday and Sunday night, that was for rugby. They could well focus on showing the welsh prem, or maybe even these new Regional Under-23 sides, keeping their toes in the rugby world, ready for if/when Premier Sport fold (like Sentanta did when they dipped their toes into the English football).

Lets watch this space and see what's what.

profitius wrote:With TG4 getting the secondary Irish rights, doesn't that raise the possibility that the British rights will be on free to air TV. Maybe not BBC but it could be itv or some other channel.

PremierSports launched a free to air channel about 6 months ago that's available in about 20 million homes and aim to show 10 hours of live sport a day.

Yeah, but the free live sport will probably be the camel racing from Dubai. Not knocking it...but it's strictly not rugby that stuff