6 Nations: England v Ireland - Our Favourite Bestest Neighbours - 17 March 2018

First topic message reminder :

I’ve always thought that England are a very good team and their fans are lovely and the most popular.

Feel free to add your own thoughts as we approach next weekend’s match as we travel over to visit them and celebrate with them.  And I’m sure that they’ll be as welcoming and fun-filled as they always are whenever we play them.  

As we all know, it’s only a game and sure it doesn’t matter who wins.....


Lovely England Team

Watson, May, Joseph, Te'o, Daly, Farrell, Wigglesworth, Simmonds, Haskell, Robshaw, Kruis, Itoje, Sinckler, Hartley, Mako

George, MArler, Cole, Launchbury, Armand, Care, Ford, Brown

Super Controlling Unbelievable Mauling Monster Yeti Irish Team

Kearney, Earls, Ringrose, Aki, Stockdale, Sexton Murray, Stander, Leavy, O'Mahony, Ryan, Henderson, Furlong, Best, Healy.

Reps: Cronin, McGrath, Porter, Toner, Murphy, Marmion, Carbery, Larmour.

I'm not worried about the position in the table. I just want England to win, and see where that leaves us.

Not sure that I'm a typical England fan, though. It never bothers me when other supporters say "You went out at the pool stages in your own World Cup", because I couldn't give a monkeys about the venue. I'd be angry and frustrated going out at the pool stages in any World Cup. For me, it didn't make it worse for being in England but I can accept that it did matter to a lot of English supporters.

A win over Ireland is all I want. They are a challenging opponent, and I want to see England rise to that challenge.

SecretFly wrote:I wouldn't say pressure... I'd term it desire - a desire to get a Slam.  Some of the younger or newer players won't be giving a thought to the history of Slams - they'll just know they're the biggest thing to be had in a 6N and they'll know they have an opportunity to play for one.

So with Ireland it's hunger not really pressure.  With England it's ..well I can only word it one way, pressure.  Nobody in England want's to come 5th, even if it's just a points difference fifth.  Fans don't want it, players doesn't want it, Jones doesn't want it.
They want to win.  I suppose winning itself is the final pressure.  Both sides want to win - strange but true.

I can't agree with that fly. There's a huge amount of pressure on Ireland to bring home the bacon, slams do not come often to Ireland. The lads will be feeling it but I think they'll cope with it.

If England finish 3rd or 5th, I doubt the players care. It's 1st or nothing at this stage in our development. Our pressure is to beat Ireland....the finishing place in the table is doesn't matter.

Uncle Eddie was silly saying it but it was just banter and has been blown out of all proportion, saying that though, is he wrong?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:This 6N is a write off now for England. 3rd, 4th...5th, it doesn't really matter.

I'd say it matters to Eddie Jones considering he's the highest paid coach in world rugby and by default his players.

Remember one of the targets the RFU have set him is IRB no1 and the winning the RWC 2020, a bottom half finish a year out from the RWC would be a disaster.

The pressure is on England no doubt about it.

Ireland are under pressure too but lets be honest a decent account of themselves and another title in the bag won't cause Schmidt too many headaches in terms of Ireland's development especially with so many young players coming in.

I do strongly fancy us to win though.

Rugby Fan wrote:I'm not worried about the position in the table. I just want England to win, and see where that leaves us.

Not sure that I'm a typical England fan, though. It never bothers me when other supporters say "You went out at the pool stages in your own World Cup", because I couldn't give a monkeys about the venue. I'd be angry and frustrated going out at the pool stages in any World Cup. For me, it didn't make it worse for being in England but I can accept that it did matter to a lot of English supporters.

A win over Ireland is all I want. They are a challenging opponent, and I want to see England rise to that challenge.

It's a valid point. If we go out in the pool stage in Japan, I'm not sure many people will be saying at least we weren't at home!

If one game is the difference between 2nd and 5th, then the labels 2nd and 5th don't tell the whole story. Considering we average 3.75 wins a tournament over the previous 10 tournaments, if England beat Ireland, we'd have had a below average 6 Nations. If England lose to Ireland, we'd have had a poor one.

TightHEAD wrote:Uncle Eddie was silly saying it but it was just banter and has been blown out of all proportion, saying that though, is he wrong?

Okay Tight. I'll take the bait. Is he wrong about what? His team selection or what he said about us and the Welsh?

rodders wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:This 6N is a write off now for England. 3rd, 4th...5th, it doesn't really matter.

I'd say it matters to Eddie Jones considering he's the highest paid coach in world rugby and by default his players.

Remember one of the targets the RFU have set him is IRB no1 and the winning the RWC 2020, a bottom half finish a year out from the RWC would be a disaster.

The pressure is on England no doubt about it.

Ireland are under pressure too but lets be honest a decent account of themselves and another title in the bag  won't cause Schmidt too many headaches in terms of Ireland's development especially with so many young players coming in.

I do strongly fancy us to win though.

Why?

We win the 6N or it's a failure. It seems other people are telling us it's hugely important for us to finish 3rd and and not 4th.....who cares??? We've had an awful 6N campaign, I just want us to beat Ireland to finish on a positive.

Win the next game is always the only aim.

I'm glad it's all over tomorrow. I'm exhausted.  The 6N always exhausts me.  All the reading, all the listening to radio chats, all the looking at TV discussions....
This is why I love the 6N - because it's rugby yes of course, primary reason - but also because it's a short time frame.  

You do your intense binge few weeks and then it's over.  It's also another good reason why I personally would never want any extensions or teams added.
I hope I enjoy tomorrow - I know I will at some level as long as we're not shamed on the scoreline.... but I'm also so relieved that it'll be all over for another year.

Positions in the table are so distorted by the unfairness of the bonus point shambles that it doesn't matter where you finish, unless you finish at the top of the table of course.

Positions in the table are so distorted by the unfairness of the bonus point shambles that it doesn't matter where you finish, unless you finish at the top of the table of course.

M

david douglas - some did an analysis of that and bonus points really make no differnce at all

Will there be outrage if some idiots man-handle or abuse Eddie in Wales and Ireland after he called those countries ‘scummy’ and a ‘sh*tty little place’?

ebop wrote:Will there be outrage if some idiots man-handle or abuse Eddie in Wales and Ireland after he called those countries ‘scummy’ and a ‘sh*tty little place’? The guy is asking for it isn’t he?

Can't speak for Wales but I doubt Eddie will be visiting Ireland anytime soon. No not because he'll fear abuse (he won't get any) - I was laughing at Alan Quinlan who was laughing on some radio show. His immediate response to Eddie's humourous barb was: "He's right. We are scumbags."
Nah Eddie don't visit scummy countries unless he has a game in them so he won't be getting any abuse in Ireland until next season. By then he might have walked out of his present job.

Nah Eddie don't visit scummy countries unless he has a game in them so he won't be getting any abuse in Ireland until next season. By then he might have walked out of his present job. Whistle

secretfly. If England do loose tomorrow EJ will not loose his job....unless you know some thing that no body including (England) dose not know.

The position as to what England finish at in the 6ns this year is neither here nor there.
It is the Rugby World Cup that matters.

I heard EJ made wholesale changes and thought he was nuts, but then I seen the starting lineup and it looks really good. I still think England are getting fifth place but they should be better by the summer.

Hartley, Wigglesworth, Haskell, & Brown. Tomorrow's players but not the day afters'.

The one thing that is interesting in Ireland is the lack of hysteria that existed around the 2009 game. Most people see that beating England in ingerland is something that doesn’t happen too often. Beating the orcs and France away in the same year is something that happens even less. We have won the 6ns so there is a certain amount of pressure removed. The team play rugby by numbers which is what is good and bad about this team. The emotion has been taken out of the equation for ireland. Look at a player like POM over the last couple of years. He doesn’t even get annoyed anymore. Boring, maybe. Effective - definitely. It’s interesting if not ironic that for the game tomorrow for Ireland to win they will have to defend the obvious onslaught from England in the first 20 mins and wait for the emotion to run its course. To nullify that will go a long way to possibly winning.

You think you're boring, have you seen our half back combo? Geological and glacial spring to mind!
Seriously, why play a dynamic BR and then kill or your creativity?
The reason Ford has lost form is in direct relationship to the appallingly performances of our BR and pack selections as a whole (Tigers as well). No FH will ever thrive when they're expected to have to consistently act as an auxiliary 7
So we're now trebling up our selection mistakes. Honestly can anyone give me a serious answer as to why Dan Robson has not been brought into the squad?
Jones has already made too many mistakes.

A serious answer for Robson? Wiggeslworth was seen as better placed in a short time to pick up the patterns of play etc.

Just watching the u 20s last night and our try just after half time. It's starting to get annoying how refs are letting passing out of the tackle (a good 5 to 10 seconds after) go without a penalty. He even checks with tmo asking a different question while ignoring the obvious infringement.

Better placed......why do you bother rolling out this ridiculous RFU platitude. Open your eyes and see what's in front of you.

I think that's why he was picked. Why do you think he was?

What the heck does better placed mean.....its synthetic nonsense. Try and be critical otherwise really don't bother.

I think he's been round jones' squad in the recent past unlike Robson so he knows some of the patterns of attack calls etc. Given he was called in last minute I think it had a large part to play. You don't tend to rock up to international rugby and hit the ground running. Though it can happen it doesn't normally when you're in the key positions 9 10 or the props very often. He had a head start over other candidates. But that's my ridiculous rfu platitude for a decision I wouldn't have gone with but what I feel has happened. So again, why do you think he was chosen?

It's Eddie's own fault for only having two sh in the initial squad.
As an Irishman I couldn't be happier to see wiggy at 9. Little to no thread around the breakdown and not the quickest either

I think the main positive about Wigglesworth is his familiarity with his Saracens teammates - I’m hoping this will make things tick.

carpet baboon wrote:It's Eddie's own fault for only having two sh in the initial squad.
As an Irishman I couldn't be happier to see wiggy at 9. Little to no thread around the breakdown and not the quickest either

Getting on now, but my memory tells me that Wiggy used to cover wing in his golden (well silver, he was never that good) years. He used to be very quick.

It will be interesting to see if he and Farrell play as flat as they have done for Sarries, Teo is a better Barritt going forward, and Farrell is capable of punching holes and getting the pass away when hitting the line hard and flat. If they do and the England back row get some quick ball I can see Ireland having a hard time.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:It's Eddie's own fault for only having two sh in the initial squad.
As an Irishman I couldn't be happier to see wiggy at 9. Little to no thread around the breakdown and not the quickest either

Getting on now, but my memory tells me that Wiggy used to cover wing in his golden (well silver, he was never that good) years. He used to be very quick.

It will be interesting to see if he and Farrell play as flat as they have done for Sarries, Teo is a better Barritt going forward, and Farrell is capable of punching holes and getting the pass away when hitting the line hard and flat. If they do and the England back row get some quick ball I can see Ireland having a hard time.

Sorry past it I meant quick of mind and deed. He may be fast in a foot race but I don't see him as a fast tempo player, which is what can hurt us

I believe he was selected as EJ is determined to pursue an ultra conservative, what he see's as an'English' strength, forward dominated strategy. Something a kin to but in fact even more suffocating and limiting than that expansive Nirvana so successfully espoused by McCall at Saracens.
Jones is so focused on the now he's actually looking backwards. This is a criminal waste of an opportunity at such a pivotal moment in our development. Lose again in the same vein today and the dye will be cast for Japan.
You may think Wigglesworth's selection supports Farrell, but that really is nonsense. If Farrell has to be spoon fed, which I don't think he does, then he shouldn't be selected in the first place.
This is only one, however there are a number of significant cast iron mistakes that have now been made by Jones that a very predictable 2nd season has too easily brought to light.

Blimey King, you’re not hopeful at all then? I like Care generally but unfortunately that hasn’t worked out to well so far for England and perhaps he is better coming into the match as a finisher.

You're right Stub, however while that explains Care's best position is to come on and to effect his instinctive game, it in no way explains why you would select a guy who is/should be retiring next month!
So who are the alternatives? Now of course I am a Wasps supporter, but can anyone tell me there has been a better EQ SH playing this year?
Robson is such an obvious selection you have to ask wtf is going through Jones's head.

Personally I don't mind at all that he wants a pack to dominate. Personally I'd have brought in Robson, primarily because despite the tactics he's a better player than wigglesworth bar box kicking. Can't really knock the tactics overall though.

To the extent you'd agree playing a SR in the BR is a good selection?
Honestly 7 your rugby aspirations at very limited.
Its a 15 man game. Each position is wonderfully specialised and in concert produces shape and movement like no other game. Just take breath and run with ball, feel the electricity the excitement provides.

(Ed. Mr Musk can you return one of our crew, he may have gone into orbit....)

Yep Robson is probably the best choice I would think too. However I agree that there is some conservatism going on here and perhaps Eddie feels that he’s playing the odds in going for an experienced player ( in a huge match) who will be playing alongside a few very familiar players. Not saying he’s necessarily right though!

stub wrote:Yep Robson is probably the best choice I would think too. However I agree that there is some conservatism going on here and perhaps Eddie feels that he’s playing the odds in going for an experienced player who will be playing alongside a few very familiar players. Not saying he’s necessarily right though!

Like Wigglesworth has aspirations to win the WC?

Honestly its so short term, its looking backwards and Jones needs telling - by the players. From what I've read Woodward got plenty of feed back.

I agree that it’s a very short term reaction but if all he wants to do is to try and win this one huge match then perhaps his motives are more understandable... Frustrating balancing development towards the WC and the need to deliver a victory.

SecretFly wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Uncle Eddie was silly saying it but it was just banter and has been blown out of all proportion, saying that though, is he wrong?

Okay Tight.  I'll take the bait.  Is he wrong about what?  His team selection or what he said about us and the Welsh?

I don't think he is wrong.

Again king if you've read many of my posts about playing a second row at 6 or more lawes tbf and thus Robshaw at 7 I'm not a big fan as I though with Hughes there it was too slow. I'd also accept that we were to an extent pushed there due to injuries to underhill curry and haskell. I've mulled over whether it's best to keep your core players in the squad or parachute someone like armand in. I've been and probably remain sceptical whether armand is good enough. I think he's probably a level below what we need as are the 2 Newcastle lads. I can see why jones has thought it's best to make do for a short time that has been extended due to a few injuries.

I do not think that Wigglesworth is as bad as he is being made out to be, I actually think he is a very good 9 and has a very good kicking game. I also really think that it was for the best to move Farrell to 10 with Teo at 12. During the game against Scotland, it seemed the obvious choice after about 25-30mins that Ford was becoming more and more a passenger.

That said, I still think that Ireland are the more balanced team and their back row will be far more dominant so I have Ireland to win the match, will be close mind.

Well that did not take Woodward long to mention England won the RWC in 2003

Haha no, and that he’s a better coach than Eddie by implication!

Not sure if England will do well if they kick away turnover possession...

What's going on with the pitch markings? The 22 isn't a solid line!

Did someone use the wrong coloured paint?

They tried to paint it blue in case it snows...

RDW_Scotland wrote:What's going on with the pitch markings? The 22 isn't a solid line!

Expected snow so blue lines used with white blockings.

Not sure \Farrell could have pulled out of that myself, he has every right to go for a charge down.

I thought the same Billy.

That looks a try to me...

Probably