Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

by Hazel Sapling Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ulster Rugby

Final Table
GP Points
Leinster 21 70
Scarlets 21 70
Edinburgh 21 68
Ulster 21 62
Benetton 21 55
Dragons 21 20
Kings 21 11

Season Outcome: Playoff for Champions Cup Spot

Ulster are in the Champions Cup

by **rodders** Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:37 pm

JmD wrote:
rodders wrote:
JmD wrote:
What we need to do is focus on retaining McPhillips and bringing in someone with experience to steady the ship and mentor the young guys.

Sorry but disagree. That approach failed to produce tight 5 forwards and a scrum half.

Players don't develop from mentoring, this is a myth, they develop from good coaching and getting game time.

What we need is a player who can start European games, whilst McPhillips and the others continue to get game time in the pro 14.

If we do sign an NIE, then to get anyone half decent means big wages and then a return on that by maximizing the minutes on the pitch and would actually hold back development of the local players.

Carbury will be significantly cheaper and more productive long term.

Fair enough Rodders but the point stands that if Carberry doesn't want to move I'd rather he stayed put than come here and be a malcontent. There's no reason an NIQ couldn't play in the same vein, i.e. starting European games while still giving the younger guys a chance to cut their teeth in the Pro14. We're not talking about bringing in an international superstar here, just someone with experience.

Personally I think if you aren't talking international standard then why waste an NIE spot and what use would they be as a mentor in any case?

If you do go for an international standard player then you are talking big money, I mean even Madigan is out of our price range and he's rubbish.

We got lucky with Liliafano as we was coming back from serious illness - other attempts to attract a 10 haven't been successful at all.

by Collapse2005 Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:58 pm

Surely Byrne or Carbery could go on a one/two year loan. It would be worth their while to be in the shop window a bot more a year out from the RWC. I think Byrne should go.

Newstalk were describing this story like it was some sort of scandal that the IRFU were asking Cullen/Lancaster to send one of them North. Seems like common sense to me.

by Standulstermen Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:00 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:Do we have any evidence of funding being cut for Ulster? Certainly when Munster were struggling their funding wasn't cut. They got a bail out.

We have three NIQs on the books next season albeit VDM should be paid off. That leaves at least one NIQ spot and if they dont want us to have a ten then with the greatest respect dont expect us to develop another provinces. We will stick with our young guys who will benefit from the gametime and wont gain anything from working with guys who arent experienced enough at the position to offer guidance. Thanks but no thanks

VdMerwe is a project not NIQ and may well be paid off - on small money fortunately.
We are allowed 4 NIQ so 2 slots free
I ask a simple question of those saying develop McPhillips - gets injured in first game are you seriously suggesting we play a season with Lowry and Curtis
We simply must sign a 10, preferably IQ

Most 10s don't really develop until they are 24 or so - look at Sexton
McPhillips is just 21
Curtis is just 20
Lowry is 19

Putting too much pressure on them next year will be detrimental to their long term careers

Was Jackson not 20 when we threw him into an HEC final? No one is suggesting developing these guys is a quick fix but in the long term with a solid squad and good platform it isnt automatically a disaster either. I will add that of course young guys need mentoring. Look at how (not just young players) the performance levels arose when we had muller. He inspired and cajoled young and old to better performances. Thats not to say its the only ingredient needed and rodders is right about gametime. Experience is great but it needs to be allied with gametime so young guys can implement the lessons

by geoff999rugby Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:14 pm

Paddy was 20 and if you talk to anyone, including the player, this was a step back in his career.
It took over a year to rebuild his confidence - if Pienaer hadn't been there he may have gone even further backwards.
Pienaer carried him for the next couple of years.

With the best will in the world Cooney is no Pienaer.

As Rodders said mentoring is over rated - its coaching and playing time that count.
Muller was a excellent captain but having the likes of Best, Ferris, Wannenberg, Afoa, Henry (at his peak), Court in the team made all the difference - we don't have players of that class. Class, rather than mentoring had more to do with the level of those performances.
Plus the superior coaching of McLoughlin.

by geoff999rugby Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:17 pm

The reality is if the 2012 forwards were all available today the only change would be Henderson for Tuohy.
The other 7 players would be from the cup final side.

Coetzee is the only one on the books who could break that observation

by marty2086 Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:22 pm

Anyone read Eamonn Sweeney in the Indo yesterday?

Is it time to abolish Ulster? Not the province, just the rugby team. After all, the IRFU were going to give Connacht the bum's rush a few years back only to change their mind after protests from some recalcitrant Western types. Perhaps it's time for another bold decision.

Jacob Stockdale could be sent to Munster to add firepower in the absence of Simon Zebo, Iain Henderson could work on his second-row partnership with James Ryan at Leinster and Rory Best's experience and leadership qualities would be invaluable to Connacht. Who else is there to worry about really? Job done.

After all, Ulster are in such disarray at the moment it'll probably be more trouble than it's worth to set them right again. Director of rugby Les Kiss has left and interim head coach Jonno Gibbes will be on his way shortly. Both men arrived with high reputations. Former Ireland defensive coach Kiss seemed like a possible future Irish manager but his stock has fallen disastrously over the past couple of years. Gibbes, a huge success as forwards coach at Leinster and Clermont-Auvergne, is leaving with a year still to run on his contract.

So it's back on the managerial merry-go-round for Ulster. Six years ago they reached the Champions Cup final against Leinster but parted company with head coach Brian McLaughlin all the same. McLaughlin cut an unglamorous figure and there was lots of talk from Ulster about the need to become world class. So in came New Zealander Mark Anscombe. His time at the helm saw two qualifications for the Champions Cup knockout stages, one after a 100 per cent record in the group stages, a record unbeaten run and an appearance in the Pro12 final.

Not good enough apparently. After Director of rugby David Humphreys left for Gloucester, Anscombe was sacked and replaced by Kiss who subsequently became director of rugby. Neil Doak had a go as coach after Kiss before being replaced by Gibbes.

All the while Ulster got worse. Four years in a row they've failed to make the knockout stages of the Champions Cup, finishing bottom of their group last season. They've become increasingly irrelevant in the Pro14 where they will probably end up having to play off against Ospreys for a place in next year's Champions Cup.

I've seen it suggested that the Belfast court case and the resultant absence of Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding are partly to blame for Ulster's continued underwhelming form. Anyone making that argument should remember that last season Munster had to cope with the tragic death of their coach yet still made it to the Champions Cup semi-finals. They knuckled down, battled on and didn't feel sorry for themselves.

Self-pity never seems to be far away from Ulster. You might feel sorry for them if they didn't feel quite so sorry for themselves. Witness the players taking time out from underachievement last week to compose a statement about how 'sad' the sacking of Jackson and Olding makes them feel.

Meanwhile, a section of Ulster support has been blundering around the place and dragging the province's good name further into the mire. When a group of people concerned about the behaviour revealed in the Belfast trial took out a crowd-funded full-page ad in the Belfast Telegraph calling for Jackson and Olding to be sacked, 139 Ulster followers retaliated with one of their own supporting the players. The Ulster Rugby Supporters Club decided to tell us that the people who'd placed the first ad were not members of their club, as if this meant anything.

The club also threatened a boycott and called a protest in defence of the players which has now thankfully been cancelled. To make things even worse, they decided to survey their members and revealed that 79 per cent of them were either 'disappointed' or 'appalled' by the players being sacked, thus displaying their true colours to all and sundry. They will apparently be "writing to IRFU/Ulster Rugby next week to express members' considerable dissatisfaction and disgust at the recent turn of events."

Do these galoots not have any clue what their behaviour looks like to those outside the bubble? Are they not aware that this case has been reported and debated worldwide? Do they not know that there are many people for whom the first thing conjured up by the name Ulster Rugby is the comment by a woman alleging r*** that she did not want to "go up against Ulster Rugby"? Can they not see that this case will take Ulster rugby years to live down? Do they not realise that the 'disgust' most people feel about the case has nothing to do with the contractual situation of Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding?

You're left with the impression of a bunch of clowns who wanted nothing more than to see Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding run out at the Kingspan Stadium so they could give them the ovation of all ovations. What a great moment in Irish sporting history that would have been.

John Cooneys response to it

I’m not one to target and belittle people but I just don’t know how an ‘accredited’ journalist would be so out of touch to write this. How does the @IndoSport even print this rubbish??? It’s utterly disrespectful to all the players and the fans #Mind-blowing

by geoff999rugby Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:23 pm

Contract update Herbst is 2019 not 2018 so to be honest other than kids no key contracts outstanding

by Pete330v2 Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:55 pm

marty2086 wrote:Anyone read Eamonn Sweeney in the Indo yesterday?

Is it time to abolish Ulster? Not the province, just the rugby team. After all, the IRFU were going to give Connacht the bum's rush a few years back only to change their mind after protests from some recalcitrant Western types. Perhaps it's time for another bold decision.

Jacob Stockdale could be sent to Munster to add firepower in the absence of Simon Zebo, Iain Henderson could work on his second-row partnership with James Ryan at Leinster and Rory Best's experience and leadership qualities would be invaluable to Connacht. Who else is there to worry about really? Job done.

After all, Ulster are in such disarray at the moment it'll probably be more trouble than it's worth to set them right again. Director of rugby Les Kiss has left and interim head coach Jonno Gibbes will be on his way shortly. Both men arrived with high reputations. Former Ireland defensive coach Kiss seemed like a possible future Irish manager but his stock has fallen disastrously over the past couple of years. Gibbes, a huge success as forwards coach at Leinster and Clermont-Auvergne, is leaving with a year still to run on his contract.

So it's back on the managerial merry-go-round for Ulster. Six years ago they reached the Champions Cup final against Leinster but parted company with head coach Brian McLaughlin all the same. McLaughlin cut an unglamorous figure and there was lots of talk from Ulster about the need to become world class. So in came New Zealander Mark Anscombe. His time at the helm saw two qualifications for the Champions Cup knockout stages, one after a 100 per cent record in the group stages, a record unbeaten run and an appearance in the Pro12 final.

Not good enough apparently. After Director of rugby David Humphreys left for Gloucester, Anscombe was sacked and replaced by Kiss who subsequently became director of rugby. Neil Doak had a go as coach after Kiss before being replaced by Gibbes.

All the while Ulster got worse. Four years in a row they've failed to make the knockout stages of the Champions Cup, finishing bottom of their group last season. They've become increasingly irrelevant in the Pro14 where they will probably end up having to play off against Ospreys for a place in next year's Champions Cup.

I've seen it suggested that the Belfast court case and the resultant absence of Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding are partly to blame for Ulster's continued underwhelming form. Anyone making that argument should remember that last season Munster had to cope with the tragic death of their coach yet still made it to the Champions Cup semi-finals. They knuckled down, battled on and didn't feel sorry for themselves.

Self-pity never seems to be far away from Ulster. You might feel sorry for them if they didn't feel quite so sorry for themselves. Witness the players taking time out from underachievement last week to compose a statement about how 'sad' the sacking of Jackson and Olding makes them feel.

Meanwhile, a section of Ulster support has been blundering around the place and dragging the province's good name further into the mire. When a group of people concerned about the behaviour revealed in the Belfast trial took out a crowd-funded full-page ad in the Belfast Telegraph calling for Jackson and Olding to be sacked, 139 Ulster followers retaliated with one of their own supporting the players. The Ulster Rugby Supporters Club decided to tell us that the people who'd placed the first ad were not members of their club, as if this meant anything.

The club also threatened a boycott and called a protest in defence of the players which has now thankfully been cancelled. To make things even worse, they decided to survey their members and revealed that 79 per cent of them were either 'disappointed' or 'appalled' by the players being sacked, thus displaying their true colours to all and sundry. They will apparently be "writing to IRFU/Ulster Rugby next week to express members' considerable dissatisfaction and disgust at the recent turn of events."

Do these galoots not have any clue what their behaviour looks like to those outside the bubble? Are they not aware that this case has been reported and debated worldwide? Do they not know that there are many people for whom the first thing conjured up by the name Ulster Rugby is the comment by a woman alleging r*** that she did not want to "go up against Ulster Rugby"? Can they not see that this case will take Ulster rugby years to live down? Do they not realise that the 'disgust' most people feel about the case has nothing to do with the contractual situation of Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding?

You're left with the impression of a bunch of clowns who wanted nothing more than to see Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding run out at the Kingspan Stadium so they could give them the ovation of all ovations. What a great moment in Irish sporting history that would have been.

John Cooneys response to it

I’m not one to target and belittle people but I just don’t know how an ‘accredited’ journalist would be so out of touch to write this. How does the @IndoSport even print this rubbish??? It’s utterly disrespectful to all the players and the fans #Mind-blowing

Sweeney is a hateful half-wit who despises everything north of the border. Cooney's reply says it all really, the Indo has stooped very low in putting that out to print.

by Standulstermen Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:34 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Paddy was 20 and if you talk to anyone, including the player, this was a step back in his career.
It took over a year to rebuild his confidence - if Pienaer hadn't been there he may have gone even further backwards.
Pienaer carried him for the next couple of years.

With the best will in the world Cooney is no Pienaer.

As Rodders said mentoring is over rated - its coaching and playing time that count.
Muller was a excellent captain but having the likes of Best, Ferris, Wannenberg, Afoa, Henry (at his peak), Court in the team made all the difference - we don't have players of that class. Class, rather than mentoring had more to do with the level of those performances.
Plus the superior coaching of McLoughlin.

I take your point Geoff but

McPhillips is a year older
Has lead us to 3 wins whilst at our lowest ebb of the pro era
Wont be competing in HEC finals or anything but rather champions/challenge cup group games so not the same pressure. Im just playing devils advocate here.
Obviously i wont dispute the coaching point but it remains to be seen who we get. It seems the players are responding to Gibbes at least now. In fairness to Peel and Dundon the play in general and the scrum has improved too. Looking at next season we could have

LH (im not sure who)
Best
Moore/Kane/O'Toole
NIQ
Hendo
Murphy
Timoney
Coetzee

That is not a bad pack with plenty of class and experience. Given Reidy and Deysel dont make that backrow its a little bit of depth too. As ever it will come down to who our coach is and who buys into what he is preaching

by Collapse2005 Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:43 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Anyone read Eamonn Sweeney in the Indo yesterday?

Is it time to abolish Ulster? Not the province, just the rugby team. After all, the IRFU were going to give Connacht the bum's rush a few years back only to change their mind after protests from some recalcitrant Western types. Perhaps it's time for another bold decision.

Jacob Stockdale could be sent to Munster to add firepower in the absence of Simon Zebo, Iain Henderson could work on his second-row partnership with James Ryan at Leinster and Rory Best's experience and leadership qualities would be invaluable to Connacht. Who else is there to worry about really? Job done.

After all, Ulster are in such disarray at the moment it'll probably be more trouble than it's worth to set them right again. Director of rugby Les Kiss has left and interim head coach Jonno Gibbes will be on his way shortly. Both men arrived with high reputations. Former Ireland defensive coach Kiss seemed like a possible future Irish manager but his stock has fallen disastrously over the past couple of years. Gibbes, a huge success as forwards coach at Leinster and Clermont-Auvergne, is leaving with a year still to run on his contract.

So it's back on the managerial merry-go-round for Ulster. Six years ago they reached the Champions Cup final against Leinster but parted company with head coach Brian McLaughlin all the same. McLaughlin cut an unglamorous figure and there was lots of talk from Ulster about the need to become world class. So in came New Zealander Mark Anscombe. His time at the helm saw two qualifications for the Champions Cup knockout stages, one after a 100 per cent record in the group stages, a record unbeaten run and an appearance in the Pro12 final.

Not good enough apparently. After Director of rugby David Humphreys left for Gloucester, Anscombe was sacked and replaced by Kiss who subsequently became director of rugby. Neil Doak had a go as coach after Kiss before being replaced by Gibbes.

All the while Ulster got worse. Four years in a row they've failed to make the knockout stages of the Champions Cup, finishing bottom of their group last season. They've become increasingly irrelevant in the Pro14 where they will probably end up having to play off against Ospreys for a place in next year's Champions Cup.

I've seen it suggested that the Belfast court case and the resultant absence of Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding are partly to blame for Ulster's continued underwhelming form. Anyone making that argument should remember that last season Munster had to cope with the tragic death of their coach yet still made it to the Champions Cup semi-finals. They knuckled down, battled on and didn't feel sorry for themselves.

Self-pity never seems to be far away from Ulster. You might feel sorry for them if they didn't feel quite so sorry for themselves. Witness the players taking time out from underachievement last week to compose a statement about how 'sad' the sacking of Jackson and Olding makes them feel.

Meanwhile, a section of Ulster support has been blundering around the place and dragging the province's good name further into the mire. When a group of people concerned about the behaviour revealed in the Belfast trial took out a crowd-funded full-page ad in the Belfast Telegraph calling for Jackson and Olding to be sacked, 139 Ulster followers retaliated with one of their own supporting the players. The Ulster Rugby Supporters Club decided to tell us that the people who'd placed the first ad were not members of their club, as if this meant anything.

The club also threatened a boycott and called a protest in defence of the players which has now thankfully been cancelled. To make things even worse, they decided to survey their members and revealed that 79 per cent of them were either 'disappointed' or 'appalled' by the players being sacked, thus displaying their true colours to all and sundry. They will apparently be "writing to IRFU/Ulster Rugby next week to express members' considerable dissatisfaction and disgust at the recent turn of events."

Do these galoots not have any clue what their behaviour looks like to those outside the bubble? Are they not aware that this case has been reported and debated worldwide? Do they not know that there are many people for whom the first thing conjured up by the name Ulster Rugby is the comment by a woman alleging r*** that she did not want to "go up against Ulster Rugby"? Can they not see that this case will take Ulster rugby years to live down? Do they not realise that the 'disgust' most people feel about the case has nothing to do with the contractual situation of Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding?

You're left with the impression of a bunch of clowns who wanted nothing more than to see Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding run out at the Kingspan Stadium so they could give them the ovation of all ovations. What a great moment in Irish sporting history that would have been.

John Cooneys response to it

I’m not one to target and belittle people but I just don’t know how an ‘accredited’ journalist would be so out of touch to write this. How does the @IndoSport even print this rubbish??? It’s utterly disrespectful to all the players and the fans #Mind-blowing

Sweeney is a hateful half-wit who despises everything north of the border. Cooney's reply says it all really, the Indo has stooped very low in putting that out to print.

I doubt he is a rugby fan. I doubt someone with any appreciation of Irish rugby could write that.

I looked the author up and he seems to be from a GAA background in Sligo which makes sense as Sligo isn't exactly known for rugby. He has also authored a book on soccer which leads me to believe he may be a bitter soccer fan.

Any rugby fan in Ireland appreciates the history and value of Ulster rugby to Ireland. Yes, its been a hard year for Ulster but so what. They will be back and I'm not worried about Ulster rugby at all.

by clivemcl Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:19 pm

Cooney's response to this just adds even more to the respect I have for him.
Not a Pienaar, but to be honest I'm very glad at this stage he replaced Pienaar. He may not be Ulster born, but he's from our Island, and has grabbed onto his opportunity at Ulster as much as Ruan did. He's been the player of the season, stunned and surprised most, and become a fantastic asset.
Here's hoping he commits to the North for his full career. A confident lad too, surprising UR haven't used him more on the PR front. I feel they will next season.
Glad to have our adopted southern son telling his bigoted southern brothers where to stick it!

Good man John!

by Collapse2005 Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:37 pm

clivemcl wrote:Cooney's response to this just adds even more to the respect I have for him.
Not a Pienaar, but to be honest I'm very glad at this stage he replaced Pienaar. He may not be Ulster born, but he's from our Island, and has grabbed onto his opportunity at Ulster as much as Ruan did. He's been the player of the season, stunned and surprised most, and become a fantastic asset.
Here's hoping he commits to the North for his full career. A confident lad too, surprising UR haven't used him more on the PR front. I feel they will next season.
Glad to have our adopted southern son telling his bigoted southern brothers where to stick it!

Good man John!

Bigoted southern brother singular and to be honest I reckon the article you are referring to is more about being anti-rugby than anti-Ulster as it is written by a GAA/soccer fan.

I think you are buying way too much into the idea that people from the republic have it in for Ulster rugby. Couldn't be further from the truth. The quality of journalism has seriously dipped in the last 10 years which clearly doesn't help.

by clivemcl Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:49 pm

It was more about praise of Cooney that ridicule of the South Collapse, but point taken.

by The Great Aukster Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:05 pm

Even though the article is nonsense (and the style classless), it is in print and as such some galoots will believe it. I was shocked by Jimbopip's comments on the other thread (obviously based on what he had read) and how factually wrong they were. So it's not just the Dublin media having a field day in the journalistic gutter with the truth long since lost down the sewer.

It is interesting that the IRFU were to the fore pandering to popular opinion when dictating the future of the players, yet are nowhere to be seem when directly challenged to scrap Ulster Rugby by Mr Sweeney. Their lack of defence suggests a tacit acceptance of the article so maybe they think he is right?

by clivemcl Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:46 pm

We will see if the Indo's readership really believe we are worth cutting loose once we beat Munster this weekend. And with only one NIQ likely to be playing.

by Artful_Dodger Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:50 pm

Don't rise to it, he is not remotely sincere. He's a troll and potentially a bigot looking for a reaction.

by clivemcl Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:30 pm

BOD getting a dig in too.

Quite ridiculous really. I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but the right coach, a fit again Coetzee, accompanied by a few shrewd signings... who the hell knows how Ulster's fortunes will go.

He's basically pitying Jordi Murphy for having to honour his new contract.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43871595

by neilthom7 Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:17 pm

We have no ten because of BOD's former employers.
The coach thing and admin thing is fair enough.
The court case theres very little Ulster could do about that.
and BOD has always had very little good things to say about Ulster so why change

by neilthom7 Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:20 pm

They say the best teams have an us against the world mentality, well looks like BOD and that 'journalist' are trying to help Ulster create that cos right now all i'm thinking is screw those guys, we will show them.

by skiddy Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:55 pm

Dear neilthom7

I haven't read through this forum in a long time...
I have to say many Ulster fans (including yourself) seem to be the most sensitive fans in the whole world... Any criticism seems to be seen as some major attack, a silly Independent article has half the fans in hysterics, maybe the supporters club should run a poll whether this article was a) disgraceful b) wrong .... God forbid O'Driscoll says anything that tells it as it is... It seems you's are to used to watching Stephen Watson and that Australian fellow in BBC telling everybody how fantastic Ulster are... The reality is right now Ulsters future doesn't look so bright and does seem to be a bit of a basket case, they may improve next season and prove people wrong...
To say its the IRFU's fault that Ulster have no 10 is ridiculous and almost giving some credence to the Indo article. While I believe the IRFU should have given them a second chance, there conduct was disgusting and they have nobody to blame but themselves as many including myself would have been fired if those messages saw the life of day in a courtroom. It put the IRFU/Ulster in an extremely difficult position given they do need sponsorship to pay the wages of players of PJ's standard. While BOI are major hypocrites, the reality is if they left Irish rugby, the Irish and Ulster brands would have become toxic. Given the situation, I do believe it would have been an embarrassment to see Ulster rugby fans angrily marching about, given the impression that they are condoning absolutely VILE BEHAVIOUR, I'm not sure why they don't appear to have show the same level of disgust for the players behaviour. It seems that some believe the IRFU are behaving worse than the players did that night. Some perspective is required.

by marty2086 Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:34 pm

FFS someone else claiming that anyone else would have been fired, please explain to me what was said that was a sackable offence and what behaviour was vile

by Sin é Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:42 pm

Paddy Jackson apology: wrote: “I am ashamed that a young woman who was a visitor to my home left in a distressed state. This was never my intention and I will always regret the events of that evening.

“I am also truly sorry for engaging in a WhatsApp group chat which was degrading and offensive and I apologise unreservedly for this.

“The criticism of my behaviour is fully justified and I know I have betrayed the values of my family and those of the wider public.

“Following the trial I have taken time to reflect with my family on the values that were such an integral part of my upbringing, the most important of which is respect. My departure from these values has caused understandable public anger and I am resolutely committed to returning to those principles.”

by Standulstermen Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:44 pm

I think O'Driscolls comments were blown out of proportion but that is the nature of that Off the Ball stuff. Unfortunately what he said was reasonable (from a certain pov) but its been sensationalised and turned into clickbait.

Skiddy theres so much to disagree with there but please take the trial talk elsewhere. (same to anyone else wanting to revisit it)

I also disagree regarding Ulsters future. I think the only way is now up and it seems that this season has put the sh1ts up a lot of guys. Our representation in the U20s is the most its been in years. This years 6N saw O'Toole, Dalton, Agnew, Hall, Dunleavy, Curtis, Hume, Stewart, Keane, Kernohan all see gametime with Lowry injured. Our clubs are in the four play off finals in the AIL and it seems guys like Timoney, Rea, kane, Warwick are finally stepping up. add to that we are as unreliant on NIQS as any team in the league and suddenly this painful process has a purpose. throw in a fit Coetzee and a couple of new signings allied to Moore to Murphy and suddenly we can be competitive again.

on Murphy; on the face of it its hard not to feel a bit sorry for him. he is playing out of his skin but he is a dip in form and some recoveries away from being down the pecking order.

VDF, Ruddock and possibly SOB all to come back with his namesake, Deegan and Doris emerging not to mention Fardy, Conan and leavy.

by Standulstermen Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:45 pm

mods please can you do the needful with anyone bringing the trial into this thread

by Sin é Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:48 pm

skiddy wrote:Dear neilthom7

I haven't read through this forum in a long time...
I have to say many Ulster fans (including yourself) seem to be the most sensitive fans in the whole world...

George Mitchell tells the story that when he came over to Belfast at his first meeting, David Irvine took him aside to say:

“Senator, if you are to be of any use of us, there’s one thing you must know.” I said, “What is it?”

“We in Northern Ireland would drive 100 miles out of our way to receive an insult.”

by neilthom7 Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:02 pm

Dear Skiddy

I am not going to discuss the trial because there is a separate thread for it and I am fed up talking about it other than to say I think you are misinformed on it, try going to that thread where some of the Ulster fans maybe kind enough to help you out.

If you were to actually put any effort in at all and read my posts through this year you would see I know that Ulster have many problems, a lot of them stem from vast mismanagement at the top and a simply crap coaching set up until the 2nd half of the year. I never anywhere said it was sunshine and rainbows what I said is this will drive an us against the world attitude which it is doing.

Finally kind of ironic that you go out of your way to come to an Ulster thread to shout about how sensitive Ulster fans are because we said something you didn't like. If you really hate the way Ulster fans are so sensitive you should probably stay of a thread specifically do to with Ulster.

by The Great Aukster Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:46 pm

It's hilarious that Skiddy is accusing Ulster fans of a loss of perspective on the one hand and Sin é is accusing them of hyper sensitivity on the other. Maybe Ulster fans are a lot more multi-faceted that the Dublin media are selling to their readers?

by Sin é Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:05 am

The Great Aukster wrote:It's hilarious that Skiddy is accusing Ulster fans of a loss of perspective on the one hand and Sin é is accusing them of hyper sensitivity on the other. Maybe Ulster fans are a lot more multi-faceted that the Dublin media are selling to their readers?

I'm accusing Ulster of fulfilling what David Irvine said: ''You'd travel a 100 miles out of your way to get an insult.''

by marty2086 Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:07 am

Sin é wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:It's hilarious that Skiddy is accusing Ulster fans of a loss of perspective on the one hand and Sin é is accusing them of hyper sensitivity on the other. Maybe Ulster fans are a lot more multi-faceted that the Dublin media are selling to their readers?

I'm accusing Ulster of fulfilling what David Irvine said: ''You'd travel a 100 miles out of your way to get an insult.''

Quite ironic that a Munster fan comes onto an Ulster thread and accuses us of going out of our way to be insulted, Heineken couldn't do irony like you Sin

by Sin é Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:25 am

marty2086 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:It's hilarious that Skiddy is accusing Ulster fans of a loss of perspective on the one hand and Sin é is accusing them of hyper sensitivity on the other. Maybe Ulster fans are a lot more multi-faceted that the Dublin media are selling to their readers?

I'm accusing Ulster of fulfilling what David Irvine said: ''You'd travel a 100 miles out of your way to get an insult.''

Quite ironic that a Munster fan comes onto an Ulster thread and accuses us of going out of our way to be insulted, Heineken couldn't do irony like you Sin

A couple of instances of I going out of my way (or other Munster fans) to find insult would be useful to backup this ascertain.

by Pete330v2 Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:36 am

skiddy wrote:Dear neilthom7

I haven't read through this forum in a long time...
I have to say many Ulster fans (including yourself) seem to be the most sensitive fans in the whole world... Any criticism seems to be seen as some major attack, a silly Independent article has half the fans in hysterics, maybe the supporters club should run a poll whether this article was a) disgraceful b) wrong .... God forbid O'Driscoll says anything that tells it as it is... It seems you's are to used to watching Stephen Watson and that Australian fellow in BBC telling everybody how fantastic Ulster are... The reality is right now Ulsters future doesn't look so bright and does seem to be a bit of a basket case, they may improve next season and prove people wrong...
To say its the IRFU's fault that Ulster have no 10 is ridiculous and almost giving some credence to the Indo article. While I believe the IRFU should have given them a second chance, there conduct was disgusting and they have nobody to blame but themselves as many including myself would have been fired if those messages saw the life of day in a courtroom. It put the IRFU/Ulster in an extremely difficult position given they do need sponsorship to pay the wages of players of PJ's standard. While BOI are major hypocrites, the reality is if they left Irish rugby, the Irish and Ulster brands would have become toxic. Given the situation, I do believe it would have been an embarrassment to see Ulster rugby fans angrily marching about, given the impression that they are condoning absolutely VILE BEHAVIOUR, I'm not sure why they don't appear to have show the same level of disgust for the players behaviour. It seems that some believe the IRFU are behaving worse than the players did that night. Some perspective is required.

To claim that fans are in hysterics followed by your hysterics actually has me in hysterics.
P.S. Do capital letters make the reaction even more hysterical?

by Pete330v2 Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:40 am

Sin é wrote:
Paddy Jackson apology: wrote: “I am ashamed that a young woman who was a visitor to my home left in a distressed state. This was never my intention and I will always regret the events of that evening.

“I am also truly sorry for engaging in a WhatsApp group chat which was degrading and offensive and I apologise unreservedly for this.

“The criticism of my behaviour is fully justified and I know I have betrayed the values of my family and those of the wider public.

“Following the trial I have taken time to reflect with my family on the values that were such an integral part of my upbringing, the most important of which is respect. My departure from these values has caused understandable public anger and I am resolutely committed to returning to those principles.”

Well look at that, it's Eamonn Sweeney's idiot half brother returning to the Ulster thread to have a little troll session yet again.

by marty2086 Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:41 am

Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:It's hilarious that Skiddy is accusing Ulster fans of a loss of perspective on the one hand and Sin é is accusing them of hyper sensitivity on the other. Maybe Ulster fans are a lot more multi-faceted that the Dublin media are selling to their readers?

I'm accusing Ulster of fulfilling what David Irvine said: ''You'd travel a 100 miles out of your way to get an insult.''

Quite ironic that a Munster fan comes onto an Ulster thread and accuses us of going out of our way to be insulted, Heineken couldn't do irony like you Sin

A couple of instances of I going out of my way (or other Munster fans) to find insult would be useful to backup this ascertain.

You mean other than you coming on here to be offended by Ulster fans or reading the details of the trial to be offended by the actions of Ulster players?

I've got nothing

by Pete330v2 Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:42 am

The BOD article isn't far from the truth to be honest. Lets face it, it'd be difficult to be complimentary about how Ulster Rugby has been run over the last number of years. Our only hope is that lessons have been learned and that knowledge will be utilized going into the future instead of allowing the dinosaurs to continue to hold on to the 'traditional' ways of getting things done.

by Sin é Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:50 am

Pete330v2 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Paddy Jackson apology: wrote: “I am ashamed that a young woman who was a visitor to my home left in a distressed state. This was never my intention and I will always regret the events of that evening.

“I am also truly sorry for engaging in a WhatsApp group chat which was degrading and offensive and I apologise unreservedly for this.

“The criticism of my behaviour is fully justified and I know I have betrayed the values of my family and those of the wider public.

“Following the trial I have taken time to reflect with my family on the values that were such an integral part of my upbringing, the most important of which is respect. My departure from these values has caused understandable public anger and I am resolutely committed to returning to those principles.”

Well look at that, it's Eamonn Sweeney's idiot half brother returning to the Ulster thread to have a little troll session yet again.

Marty wanted to know what the lads did wrong. I've just posted what Jackson (eventually) apologised for.

by marty2086 Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:55 am

Sin é wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Paddy Jackson apology: wrote: “I am ashamed that a young woman who was a visitor to my home left in a distressed state. This was never my intention and I will always regret the events of that evening.

“I am also truly sorry for engaging in a WhatsApp group chat which was degrading and offensive and I apologise unreservedly for this.

“The criticism of my behaviour is fully justified and I know I have betrayed the values of my family and those of the wider public.

“Following the trial I have taken time to reflect with my family on the values that were such an integral part of my upbringing, the most important of which is respect. My departure from these values has caused understandable public anger and I am resolutely committed to returning to those principles.”

Well look at that, it's Eamonn Sweeney's idiot half brother returning to the Ulster thread to have a little troll session yet again.

Marty wanted to know what the lads did wrong. I've just posted what Jackson (eventually) apologised for.

No I didn't, I asked what the sackable offence was so didn't go making stuff up

by Sin é Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:07 am

marty2086 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Paddy Jackson apology: wrote: “I am ashamed that a young woman who was a visitor to my home left in a distressed state. This was never my intention and I will always regret the events of that evening.

“I am also truly sorry for engaging in a WhatsApp group chat which was degrading and offensive and I apologise unreservedly for this.

“The criticism of my behaviour is fully justified and I know I have betrayed the values of my family and those of the wider public.

“Following the trial I have taken time to reflect with my family on the values that were such an integral part of my upbringing, the most important of which is respect. My departure from these values has caused understandable public anger and I am resolutely committed to returning to those principles.”

Well look at that, it's Eamonn Sweeney's idiot half brother returning to the Ulster thread to have a little troll session yet again.

Marty wanted to know what the lads did wrong. I've just posted what Jackson (eventually) apologised for.

No I didn't, I asked what the sackable offence was so didn't go making stuff up

This is what you posted:

FFS someone else claiming that anyone else would have been fired, please explain to me what was said that was a sackable offence and what behaviour was vile.

I only quoted Jackson's response about his behaviour which was deemed sackable.

by Collapse2005 Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:28 am

Jackson apologised because of the pressure on his career from sponsors. That's where we are in the world now.

The courts operate on a logic based system formed through centuries of wisdom that revolves around analysis of intent whereas pressure groups, social media and sponsors form their opinions solely on outcomes which is completely out of sync with and ignores logic, reality and the legal system.

The hysteria that lead to their sacking is tragically devoid of the sort of intelligence required to be a judge and set legal precedents, sadly Jackson's comments were a last ditch attempt to manage the stupidity of a section of the general public who these days have very worryingly acquired the power to set precedents of their own.

by marty2086 Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:37 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Jackson apologised because of the pressure on his career from sponsors. That's where we are in the world now.

The courts operate on a logic based system that revolves around analysis of intent whereas pressure groups, social media and sponsors form their opinions solely on outcomes which is completely out of sync with and ignores logic, reality and the legal system.

The hysteria that lead to their sacking is tragically devoid of the sort of intelligence required to be a judge, sadly Jackson's comments were a last ditch attempt to manage the stupidity of a section of the general public.

The whole thing wasn't helped by his barrister either

by Sin é Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:50 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Jackson apologised because of the pressure on his career from sponsors. That's where we are in the world now.

And have you questioned why the sponsors would act in such a way?

The courts operate on a logic based system that revolves around analysis of intent whereas pressure groups, social media and sponsors form their opinions solely on outcomes which is completely out of sync with and ignores logic, reality and the legal system.

And the legal system is perfect I suppose. It never gets it wrong?

The hysteria that lead to their sacking is tragically devoid of the sort of intelligence required to be a judge, sadly Jackson's comments were a last ditch attempt to manage the stupidity of a section of the general public.

First of all, the jury were the ones who decided they weren't guilty. How do you know what sort of intelligence they had?

Amarach Research conducted research for RTE's Claire Byrne Live on whether the IRFU were right to sack the two lads in ROI. The survey (of 1,000 people by phone) was something like 70% yes, 25% No, and the rest Don't knows. From your point of view then, 70% of the general public are stupid.

by Standulstermen Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:59 am

Seriously lads. any chance of some rugby.

by Collapse2005 Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:05 am

1. Yes, if enough idiots tell Bank of Ireland they will boycott them they will pull the plug on any sponsorship. Lets not pretend they did it because of anything resembling a moral compass.

2. No but it is infinitely more reliable than the general public who aren't party to all the facts of a trial and aren't guided by the wisdom of a judge on how to assess a case in line with legal precedent.

3. The jury were placed into the legal process and therefore guided on how to make a decision based on how the legal system works. Sitting in a court forming an opinion is very different to forming an opinion based on the comments section of the journal.ie etc. Choose a different demographic and you will get very different results on this and other polls. These days a lot of people are afraid to back Jackson and co. for fear that they too might lose their jobs or by default become r*** apologists in the eyes of a minority of hysterical morons.

One thing that I have found very revealing about this trial is how many of the general public like to hold themselves up as real squeaky clean beacons of virtue when the reality is everyone sins and has sinned. They either choose to ignore their own sins or are oblivious to them. Either way the constant virtue signalling is something I find quite bizarre.

by marty2086 Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:12 am

It has been confirmed that Ulster Rugby will host Uruguay in a special fixture at Kingspan Stadium on Friday 9th November (7.30pm kick off), and tickets are now on sale.

Also been confirmed that Cathal Marsh is leaving Leinster, Ulsters next big thing at 10?

by Standulstermen Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:16 am

hell to the no marty

by Collapse2005 Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:26 am

marty2086 wrote:It has been confirmed that Ulster Rugby will host Uruguay in a special fixture at Kingspan Stadium on Friday 9th November (7.30pm kick off), and tickets are now on sale.

Also been confirmed that Cathal Marsh is leaving Leinster, Ulsters next big thing at 10?

That's really cool. Is there any connection to Uruguay?

by **rodders** Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:26 am

neilthom7 wrote:They say the best teams have an us against the world mentality

How come we are so rubbish then?

by marty2086 Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:32 am

Standulstermen wrote:hell to the no marty

Well apparently Byrne and Carberry have both dug their heels in so there may not be much choice

by marty2086 Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:33 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:It has been confirmed that Ulster Rugby will host Uruguay in a special fixture at Kingspan Stadium on Friday 9th November (7.30pm kick off), and tickets are now on sale.

Also been confirmed that Cathal Marsh is leaving Leinster, Ulsters next big thing at 10?

That's really cool. Is there any connection to Uruguay?

Just a fixture to draw a crowd, like the look of Uruguay from their RWC qualifiers they are trying to play some exciting rugby

by Sin é Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:34 am

Collapse2005 wrote:1. Yes, if enough idiots tell Bank of Ireland they will boycott them they will pull the plug on any sponsorship. Lets not pretend they did it because of anything resembling a moral compass.

I'd imagine the BoI did their own research to get the general public's attitude and it was the general public's moral compass they acted on.

2. No but it is infinitely more reliable than the general public who aren't party to all the facts of a trial and aren't guided by the wisdom of a judge on how to assess a case in line with legal precedent.

You see, that is the problem with such trials - there are very few facts to work with. Its all based on 'reasonable doubt' which is impossible to prove. My biggest criticism of the trial was that there were too much information available to the general public and the system in NI needs to be changed.

3. The jury were placed into the legal process and therefore guided on how to make a decision based on how the legal system works. Sitting in a court forming an opinion is very different to forming an opinion based on the comments section of the journal.ie etc. Choose a different demographic and you will get very different results on this and other polls. These days a lot of people are afraid to back Jackson and co. for fear that they too might lose their jobs or by default become r*** apologists in the eyes of a minority of hysterical morons.

A few days into the trial, I predicted that they would get off (see thread on the trial to see that) - all from the verbatim news reporting of various papers. Amarach Research are a very experienced research organisation who would do their research from a social mix based on age, race, gender, education, income, etc. Its not a micky mouse poll on the internet that anyone can join in. They are usually +/-3% accurate.

One thing that I have found very revealing about this trial is how many of the general public like to hold themselves up as real squeaky clean beacons of virtue when the reality is everyone sins and has sinned. They either choose to ignore their own sins or are oblivious to them. Either way the constant virtue signalling is something I find quite bizarre.

Ah here now, the charges were r*** (the second most serious crime, after murder). How many of the general public get themselves in a simlar situation?

by marty2086 Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:34 am

rodders wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:They say the best teams have an us against the world mentality

How come we are so rubbish then?

The world only turned on us a few weeks ago, we're unbeaten since then, need to keep the press on our back and we'll be champions thumbsup

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