Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

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Ulster Rugby

Final Table
               GP   Points
Leinster    21     70
Scarlets    21     70
Edinburgh 21     68
Ulster       21     62
Benetton   21     55
Dragons    21     20
Kings        21     11

Season Outcome: Playoff for Champions Cup Spot

Ulster are in the Champions Cup

I think Great Aukster is correct - A LH And a Lock is all I am expecting alongside Joey.
I was hoping for Dooley on loan as well but that one seems to have gone completely quiet.
For reason he mentions it is why Ross, Browne, Ah You and the fringe backs - Cairns, Busby, Owens will, in most cases, be gone as well

I also agree Curtis future is at 10 not 12

It would take an absolute miracle for Pau to automatically qualify.
They have to beat Toulon
and Castres and La Rochelle would have to lose at home to Oyannax and Stade respectively.
Oyannax and Stade are both in the bottom 3.

We will be playing Ospreys in two weeks - 99% certain

I thought I read somewhere if Leinster win the European Cup ulster qualify. Did I imagine this?

In part - it also required the 4 challenge cup Semi-Finalist to qualify as well

That ain't going to happen

Addison has pulled his hamstring by the looks of it in the sale game. I thought he can't get injured until he joined Ulster.

What are your thoughts on the Play-off

Do ye want to be in the Champs Cup or the challenge and allow the team to grow and have a shot at silverware

I think Ulster have to be favourite to beat the Ospreys

From a selfish point of view, part of me wants the challenge cup as I try to get to a couple of away European ties each year. I've been to France on numerous occasions. I quite fancy somewhere a bit different. But from an ulster point of view and my brain's, champions cup. You want your younger players to develop in the best and toughest tournament. That's what I think anyway.

Well nearly all away games are in France and England so not sure what you are expecting.<BR>
There is a 1 in 6 chance of going to Germany, and a 1 in 6 chance of going to deepest Russia.<BR><BR> A lot of the teams in Challenge Cup are ones we have played before - Saints, Quins, Clermont, La Rochelle etc so no difference there

I know others here, like me, read the other forum and I just have to say have you ever come across a more pathetic bunch of moaning minnies.

I despise Logan  as much as the next man but they way they go on about him, the trial, the IRFU and the club beggars belief.
Most of them appear to be of a senior age - unfortunately nearly all behave like spoilt brats.
Some think they are funny - there not by a long shot.

Bunch of pathetic bumholes if you ask me that the Province would be better without

Can't agree Geoff.

They are just impassioned UR fans, many ST holders and committing to away games. Living and breathing Ulster can polarise opinions, so the past season has naturally been a big let down.

Not sure how they have offended you, but I certainly find some of them funny!

They haven't offend me at all but I find a large percentage of the contribution unfunny, puerile and pathetic to be honest.
Some also take it too far in being openly offensive towards players, organization etc which is uncalled for.
You can be a true and impassioned fan, I think I am one, without sinking to those levels.
Maybe true fans in the past but if half of them are true to their word they wont be in the future

There are a few on there that seem to be pretty unpleasant and they do get to express their feeings in a way the Mods here wouldn't put up with. There's one poster on there who is particularly nasty but one or even a few bad apples don't spoil the entire bunch. There are enough insightful and informative posters to make it worthwhile hovering around.

geoff999rugby wrote:I know others here, like me, read the other forum and I just have to say have you ever come across a more pathetic bunch of moaning minnies.

I despise Logan  as much as the next man but they way they go on about him, the trial, the IRFU and the club beggars belief.
Most of them appear to be of a senior age - unfortunately nearly all behave like spoilt brats.
Some think they are funny - there not by a long shot.

Bunch of pathetic bumholes if you ask me that the Province would be better without

What is the other forum?

Neil Best on twitter:
'Rumours circulating that @UlsterRugby CEO Shane Logan may be gone as soon as the end of May and a former player has been identified as a replacement.'

Pete330v2 wrote:Neil Best on twitter:
'Rumours circulating that @UlsterRugby CEO Shane Logan may be gone as soon as the end of May and a former player has been identified as a replacement.'

Andy Trimble?

Bryn?

Pete330v2 wrote:There are a few on there that seem to be pretty unpleasant and they do get to express their feeings in a way the Mods here wouldn't put up with. There's one poster on there who is particularly nasty but one or even a few bad apples don't spoil the entire bunch. There are enough insightful and informative posters to make it worthwhile hovering around.

I agree I wade through the crap to get the odd gem

Pete330v2 wrote:Neil Best on twitter:
'Rumours circulating that @UlsterRugby CEO Shane Logan may be gone as soon as the end of May and a former player has been identified as a replacement.'

Fingers crossed.
Stephen Ferris recently denied there was a split in the camp.
My understand he is right, as far as the rugby goes - the players are united and indeed I get a definite sense of them circling the wagons and using that as a source of strength.
HOWEVER there is a split in so far as the rugby side of the club hold Logan in contempt and that is the split at the club.
Hopefully the IRFU use that as stick to get rid

Ex-player ?
Bryn it could be, really struggling to think of anyone else.
Also he said himself there will be no DoR standing over the Head Coach so he wouldn't have much of a job on the rugby side

Here's another little snifter from that forum:

"Was listening to Donal Lenihan on Today FM today and he said Munster are now sniffing around Carberry and suggested we might get Keatley".

Off The Ball talking about Carbery every chance they get. This is kinda surreal that an IRFU backed player move attempt is so public.

I mean in past seasons we've heard whispers and speculated about what Irish 9 we might get, but it's weird that this one is so public.

Was that intended, or leaked?

If it hasn't been announced yet, is Carbery digging his heals in? Or they just waiting till Leinster's season is over?



And i tell you what, the more I hear folk talk about it, the more I want for him to come, and end up loving it, and become unreal, and decide to stay!

clivemcl wrote:Off The Ball talking about Carbery every chance they get. This is kinda surreal that an IRFU backed player move attempt is so public.

I mean in past seasons we've heard whispers and speculated about what Irish 9 we might get, but it's weird that this one is so public.

Was that intended, or leaked?

If it hasn't been announced yet, is Carbery digging his heals in? Or they just waiting till Leinster's season is over?



And i tell you what, the more I hear folk talk about it, the more I want for him to come, and end up loving it, and become unreal, and decide to stay!

Well that certainly demonstrates the for and against argument and there are valid points on both sides. I don't see how with Bleyendaal, Hanrahan and Keatley that Munster are 'an outhalf away' from being anything more than what they are right now. That's three 10s more than Ulster have had all season, 4 if you count Bill Johnston, their developing young player. It must feel pretty awful to be any of those guys who are holding Munster back from being more competitive. The fact remains that Ulster have a void at 10 other than a developing youngster so Munster are very well stocked indeed, to send Joey there just doesn't make sense. In fact using the previous point, Ulster are and outhalf away from fielding a 1st XV.

clivemcl wrote:

As admirable and modest a bloke as you'll ever get.

P.S. I think it's just us here today Clive

I think that gametime cannot be underrated. Cooney was 4th choice Irish SH and he has to have been the Pro 14 player of the season and pushed himself into 2nd spot. If he isnt 2nd choice its a travesty. If Cooney with regular gametime can move up that much think what regular gametime could do for Carbery.

Kingshu wrote:I think that gametime cannot be underrated. Cooney was 4th choice Irish SH and he has to have been the Pro 14 player of the season and pushed himself into 2nd spot. If he isnt 2nd choice its a travesty. If Cooney with regular gametime can move up that much think what regular gametime could do for Carbery.

Lot of sense in that.

Hope Henry is staying - no news of a contract for next year.

In truth he can no longer cut it BUT his experience will be invaluable with so many other experienced players leaving
I would expect him to get one more year for that reason alone

Pete330v2 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Off The Ball talking about Carbery every chance they get. This is kinda surreal that an IRFU backed player move attempt is so public.

I mean in past seasons we've heard whispers and speculated about what Irish 9 we might get, but it's weird that this one is so public.

Was that intended, or leaked?

If it hasn't been announced yet, is Carbery digging his heals in? Or they just waiting till Leinster's season is over?



And i tell you what, the more I hear folk talk about it, the more I want for him to come, and end up loving it, and become unreal, and decide to stay!

Well that certainly demonstrates the for and against argument and there are valid points on both sides. I don't see how with Bleyendaal, Hanrahan and Keatley that Munster are 'an outhalf away' from being anything more than what they are right now. That's three 10s more than Ulster have had all season, 4 if you count Bill Johnston, their developing young player. It must feel pretty awful to be any of those guys who are holding Munster back from being more competitive. The fact remains that Ulster have a void at 10 other than a developing youngster so Munster are very well stocked indeed, to send Joey there just doesn't make sense. In fact using the previous point, Ulster are and outhalf away from fielding a 1st XV.

Bloemendaal hasn't played all season with a neck injury, so even though he is a quality player, I think there maybe question marks about whether he will play again. Neatly is Neatly. I would regard him as an excellent back-up, but pressure gets to him. JJ is hot and cold. Bill Johnson is a bit injury prone, though looks to be the real deal. Alan Tynan (Year 2 of Academy), is another one on the horizon in Munster. Personally, I would love if we had a Paul Warwick type of player in Munster (good enough to play fullback at Champs Cup level, and able to step in to ROG's boot when required).

One thing worth clearing up. The other forum, and some on here have said you don't want a player who doesn't want to be here.
That's completely irrelevant. Carberry will be playing for a WC squad spot. Anyone who thinks he won't play 100% for Ulster is an eejit.
In fact, he may even be a bit pissed off with Leinster and IRFU about it and sure that might even add to the motivation.

I've decided. I hope he get's forced!

Also... maybe a few Dubliners will finall see what it's like to have the IRFU force a man away from not only the club he loves, but the place he calls home.

We had to take it on the chin, why not the rest of the provinces?

Clive be under no misapprehension - there is one rule for Leinster, and a totally different one for Ulster - fairness isn't a word in the IRFU lexicon.

The Great Aukster wrote:Clive be under no misapprehension - there is one rule for Leinster, and a totally different one for Ulster - fairness isn't a word in the IRFU lexicon.

Careful, this is how you rile some folks up.

"But it's a totally different situation than Pienaar/Jackson/Olding!!!!!"

The fact is the IRFU forced out 1 top class 10 and 2 very capable 10s with no contingency plan, and they should shoulder some of the responsibility to shore the position up again. If that's at another province's expense well boohoo.

Ulster v Ospreys - what's the consensus do we want to win or lose?
Will Trimble get his send off?

Will Champions Cup spot be a clause for some new but yet unnamed signings?

We need to win. The money bit is key.

I understand the logic of wanting a Challenge Cup run so the youngsters will get a run out but ...... they'll already get a run out. Our squad is down to the bare bones with retirements and clearing out deadwood so the youngsters will play regardless.

We may as well play at the highest level and they can learn what it means to be up against the best.

Redman wrote:We need to win.  The money bit is key.  

I understand the logic of wanting a Challenge Cup run so the youngsters will get a run out but ...... they'll already get a run out.  Our squad is down to the bare bones with retirements and clearing out deadwood so the youngsters will play regardless.  

We may as well play at the highest level and they can learn what it means to be up against the best.  

Agreed, the Champions Cup is the only option for us right now. The Challenge Cup, in the latter stages at least is too much for Ulster this season's form, we'd still come away devoid of silverware. The young players will get plenty of exposure in the Pro14 and that's what they really need now. I don't think exposing them to the pool stages of the Challenge Cup would do much for them to be honest, a run out against a Russian or Spanish side wouldn't be as challenging as going against any of the Pro14 sides.
Therefore, against the O's we require a win if only because have to remain playing at the highest level, the only way to get the best from your players either experienced or otherwise. The money is important but not as important as that.
Trimble deserves to go out with a bit of a bang too, I'd hate to see him trudge off defeated and out of Europe, Brexited so to speak

Cooney interview. He has very kind words for both Peel and Ludik.

He also implied Paul Marshall might be back. It's interesting. His interview after his last game implied it was a choice based on his ill son.

But I thought I'd heard he just wasnt offered a contract and he didn't want to move elsewhere.

I do know that unlike some of the others, Marshall doesn't want to finish rugby and it was a reluctant retirement.

clivemcl wrote:One thing worth clearing up. The other forum, and some on here have said you don't want a player who doesn't want to be here.
That's completely irrelevant. Carberry will be playing for a WC squad spot. Anyone who thinks he won't play 100% for Ulster is an eejit.
In fact, he may even be a bit pissed off with Leinster and IRFU about it and sure that might even add to the motivation.

I've decided. I hope he get's forced!

Also... maybe a few Dubliners will finall see what it's like to have the IRFU force a man away from not only the club he loves, but the place he calls home.

We had to take it on the chin, why not the rest of the provinces?

Nah - it's good for Leinster, and the player, so don't see a problem. Just as it was good that Pienaar contract was not renewed. Joey decides to go - ultimately it's his decision as to where he plays.
Ditto for Jordi Murphy, Andrew Conway, et al.

Joey's from Athy so moving from the cowboys in Dublin to the gangsters in Belfast won't do him any more harm, sure. Leinster fans are not just based in Dublin ya know!

clivemcl wrote:One thing worth clearing up. The other forum, and some on here have said you don't want a player who doesn't want to be here.
That's completely irrelevant. Carberry will be playing for a WC squad spot. Anyone who thinks he won't play 100% for Ulster is an eejit.
In fact, he may even be a bit pissed off with Leinster and IRFU about it and sure that might even add to the motivation.

I've decided. I hope he get's forced!

Also... maybe a few Dubliners will finall see what it's like to have the IRFU force a man away from not only the club he loves, but the place he calls home.

We had to take it on the chin, why not the rest of the provinces?

Ever hear of Nathan Hines? He wanted to stay, Leinster wanted him to stay but the IRFU said no. There are many Leinster fans are still bitter about that to this day.

I was thinking of Hines myself, but surely the issue was that the IRFU wouldn't let Leinster offer him a long enough deal? They didn't say no. Doesn't really change your point, but they were allowed to offer him a one year deal.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

clivemcl wrote:One thing worth clearing up. The other forum, and some on here have said you don't want a player who doesn't want to be here.
That's completely irrelevant. Carberry will be playing for a WC squad spot. Anyone who thinks he won't play 100% for Ulster is an eejit.
In fact, he may even be a bit pissed off with Leinster and IRFU about it and sure that might even add to the motivation.

I've decided. I hope he get's forced!

Also... maybe a few Dubliners will finall see what it's like to have the IRFU force a man away from not only the club he loves, but the place he calls home.

We had to take it on the chin, why not the rest of the provinces?

Ever hear of Nathan Hines? He wanted to stay, Leinster wanted him to stay but the IRFU said no. There are many Leinster fans are still bitter about that to this day.

Ah ok, so we are in agreement, this is just the IRFU doing their thing, like always. We all just have to take it.

clivemcl wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

clivemcl wrote:One thing worth clearing up. The other forum, and some on here have said you don't want a player who doesn't want to be here.
That's completely irrelevant. Carberry will be playing for a WC squad spot. Anyone who thinks he won't play 100% for Ulster is an eejit.
In fact, he may even be a bit pissed off with Leinster and IRFU about it and sure that might even add to the motivation.

I've decided. I hope he get's forced!

Also... maybe a few Dubliners will finall see what it's like to have the IRFU force a man away from not only the club he loves, but the place he calls home.

We had to take it on the chin, why not the rest of the provinces?

Ever hear of Nathan Hines? He wanted to stay, Leinster wanted him to stay but the IRFU said no. There are many Leinster fans are still bitter about that to this day.

Ah ok, so we are in agreement, this is just the IRFU doing their thing, like always. We all just have to take it.

Yeah, unfortunately the IRFU don't get everything right and they certainly should have never forced Pineaar to find a new club. I always wanted him to be retained by Ulster.

Ulster pulled a bit of a fast one with Pienaar when the IRFU announced changes limiting foreign players playing for the Province (something like no foreign player could stay longer than 2 years I think it was) by giving Pienaar a long term contract just before they brought it in. Leinster lost Hines & Nacewa, Munster lost Paul Warwick & Wian du Preez so as to keep BJ. BJ had to go eventually as well.

Pat Whelan didn't have the first notion when he came up with the ridiculous restrictions and so it has proved.

What has it proved?

I think Ulster will qualify this year for the Champion's Cup. I just hope that they do well next year when they're in it. They'll be what, about five months without a coach? That can't be good. I think hanging on to Les Kiss for another season would have been better than tossing him out with no replacement forthcoming for such a long stretch. However, time will tell if that'll be the case.

Hanging onto Les Kiss would definitely not have been a good idea under any circumstances

We have played better without him and not just because of Gibbes

geoff999rugby wrote:Hanging onto Les Kiss would definitely not have been a good idea under any circumstances

We have played better without him and not just because of Gibbes

Do you think was this a mess up Geoff? Or perhaps Gibbes changing his mind?
It kinda feels like UR were expecting to hand over to Gibbes and so got rid of Kiss only for Gibbes to announce he wasn't in fact staying either.
Otherwise, would you not begin scouting and interviewing relacement coaches while the current coach see out his contract?

Or was it so bad that UR feared Kiss remaining would lead to a worse season outcome and that Gibbes even if only interim was our best chance of play-offs or qualification for CC?

Kiss was going regardless of what Gibbes did.
Kiss was sacked before they knew either way what Gibbes would do
Ulster offered Gibbes the job hoping but not certain he would accept it.
I believe that looking for a new coach started in February.

The club were convinced that Kiss had to go and his staying was detrimental - performances since have substantiated that.

Whatever Gibbes' overall career ambitions, he would be going home anyway for family reasons.

The Great Aukster wrote:Pat Whelan didn't have the first notion when he came up with the ridiculous restrictions and so it has proved.

Fairplay to Pa Whelan then for being impartial about the restrictions on NIQs (if it was all down to him) for not pulling some fast moves to exempt Munster. Taking a look at the 3 Provinces in the 'notion' - the two Provinces that took their medicine at the time look to be in a better position than Ulster.

Don Alfonso wrote:Whatever Gibbes' overall career ambitions, he would be going home anyway for family reasons.

Spot on - I think the offer to Gibbes was as much in hope as expectation

Apparantly Callum Black is due to be included in the USA squad for June tests. Fair play to him if true!