Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

First topic message reminder :

Ulster Rugby

Final Table
               GP   Points
Leinster    21     70
Scarlets    21     70
Edinburgh 21     68
Ulster       21     62
Benetton   21     55
Dragons    21     20
Kings        21     11

Season Outcome: Playoff for Champions Cup Spot

Ulster are in the Champions Cup

Pete330v2 wrote:The Newsletter has reported that the Jantjies move has been knocked back and we're also talking to Volavola. That report also contained this:
"However, while Ulster fans may be quick to criticise the IRFU - it is also believed Leinster have had requests for an NIQ to replace Isa Nacewa blocked as well."
Leinster have 4 outhalves, one of which they are being forced to ship out to Munster who also have 3 outhalves. Ulster have 1 inexperienced outhalf fresh from the academy who could do with an experienced 10 to aid in his development. Any critisism of the IRFU is well placed yet again.

That's maybe more to do with the fact they already have James Lowe on the books though

And they don't want Larmour being denied game time because Lowe and ANOther take up 2 of the 3 back three slots

Seems Piutau is out of the Barbarians game

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12321/11381563/babarians-hit-by-injuries-ahead-of-england-clash-at-twickenham?utm_source=Direct

geoff999rugby wrote:Agreed there has to be a point when this stops and we are free to sign a NIQ
IRFU want option 3, I reckon option 1 is a no goer.
Keatley will be in a very difficult position - Munster will have 4 IQ 10's - someone has to leave but who and where

Rumours are that Tyler may have to retire. 33 games for Munster in four seasons.

I can see why the IRFU might want Carberry to go to Munster to train and play with Conor Murray. It might suit Munster to take him for a season and see how Bill Johnson emerges (very injury prone).

If true, and I have no reason to doubt you, I think we will have a NIQ 10 next year.
Munster will have JJ as 10 backup and Keatley as 15 backup to the new boy.
Lost Zebo in that regard and I can see more of Conway on the wing next year

As an aside I don't want Jantjies - don't think he is what we need

marty2086 wrote:Apparently Ulster have been refused the chance to sign Elton Jantjies by the IRFU

Good he's bloody useless.

Carbury to Munster and Keatley to Ulster to support McPhillips is the ticket.

Throw us James Lowe as well please.

I haven't seen Jantjies this season but last season he looked good, a few years ago I'd have worried about signing him but he seems to be fulfilling his potential and has the range of skills that we need though his kicking stats weren't the best still but you know....Cooney

Ulster are looking for a casual coach, isn't that what most of our coaching appointments are

I know we've in the most dire need of a LH, a Lock and an out half but what about a scrum half?
If, god forbid, anything was to happen to Cooney there's a hell of a drop off to our current replacements. Shanahan and Stewart fill me with dread.

KOTH saying that there's bad news about Luke Marshall. Anyone hear anything?

Jantjies at 27 with 24 Springbok caps or Keatley at 31 with 7 Ireland caps.
Come on guys, that's a no brainer.

I'd be OK with Carbery for a year but only IF we get a better NIQ 10 than Jantjies post WC, and that's a gamble.

If we can get an NIQ to commit 15 months out a la Piutau, then fair enough. But to help improve Leinster's 10 for a season and then find there are no NIQ 10s interested post WC would be a bit of a mess.

For my money, we should be taking a 10 of Jantjies ability for 2/3 year deal if he is keen.

Yea, KOTH suggesting he may be retired or out for a season anyway. Another knee injury.

McCloskey Addison and Cave are our centers next season.

Jantjies  is, to put it bluntly, and in my opinion not made of the right stuff.
Has a lots of skill but not a sharp tactical brain. - I'd rather go with our kids
He is flakey we need a cool head
Not worth a NIQ slot
Keatley is an old head who can cover 15 as well
Boring I know but for a year until the post WC players become available, is ok.
Don't think it will him anyway if the Bleydaal comments are true

I know Pete so many gaps but we cant fill all
Fast track O'Donnell, and maybe Curtis jnr, and hope they with Stewart can cover - Shanahan simply isn't good enough.
I actually reckon we, probably, would get permission to sign an injury replacement if something bad happened to Cooney

LH is even more important than 10 - we only have McCall and Warwick next year
Ah You has played there. A 1 year contract as a LH for him would be a desperate last resort

Marshall would be absolutely tragic - after the superstar performances of Cooney and Stockdale he has been, comfortably, our stand out back
If it is the end Hume will have to be fast tracked

Pete330v2 wrote:KOTH saying that there's bad news about Luke Marshall. Anyone hear anything?

He doesn't actually say it is the end.

Also I would cling to the fact he may have contacts but his judgement is lousy e.g. Peel, McPhillips, Cunningham
When weighing up the facts he gets more wrong than right

That was always the mark against Jantjies, he did look more assured in 2017. Maybe with someone like Cooney and some decent leaders around him he'd come good for us but unlikely to happen anyway

On Marshall, when I first saw him going down I thought he was having a fit the way he was writhing. Did not look good at all

The point about Jantjies is we have a number of issues to address, as mentioned here.
He simply isn't what we need to tie up a NIQ slot for 2/3 years.
If we have a need for a handful of players, as we do, and only 2 NIQ slot available - those players have to be perfect fits for what we need

geoff999rugby wrote:I pretty certain I'm not the only one who got an Email from Rory

In it he states
Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to recognise the contribution of some great servants to Ulster Rugby who will bid farewell this summer, in particular Andrew Trimble, Paul Marshall, Robbie Diack, Tommy Bowe, Callum Black and Norman Pollock. I wish them and their families all the best for the future.



Interesting are the omissions - nothing about Piatau or Gibbes
I take that to read good riddance you mercenaries
Indeed no kind words about Kiss
Make no mistakes those omissions are deliberate and indicate where the true feelings on the playing staff lie


NB: Norman Pollock is Sparky

Think you're reading far too much into that Geoff. Including Gibbes with those mentioned who've spent the majority of their careers at Ulster would be incongruous and diminish the loyalty and service given by them.

Piutau was only at Ulster for two seasons so has nowhere near the service to qualify for Rory's list. Despite a stellar season with Wasps and the opportunity to renege on his Ulster deal he chose to honour it instead. For the most part he has been a world class player, and always speaks highly of his time in Ulster. He may have been expensive but given that Stockdale has come on leaps and bounds with him in the side, he may just have been worth it.

Maybe but he couldn't renege on his deal without it costing a lot of money.
He was World Class in the first year - this year he has been an expensive luxury who has come up short.
Speaking well of Ulster - meaningless to me that's what just about everyone does when they leave

geoff999rugby wrote:Maybe but he couldn't renege on his deal without it costing a lot of money.
He was World Class in the first year - this year he has been an expensive luxury who has come up short.
Speaking well of Ulster - meaningless to me that's what just about everyone does when they leave

Oh not sure about that, Anscombe and McLaughlin never really talked the place up.

I would have Elton over Joey every time. Carberry is not going to come permanently, only waiting for Sextons body to pack it in.
Janjties would be in the Quade cooper box of flyhalves. We need more of a general behind the ruck, a kicking game to push the opposition back when we are under pressure.
Morne Steyn would have been a shout but he is off to Brive

rodders wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Maybe but he couldn't renege on his deal without it costing a lot of money.
He was World Class in the first year - this year he has been an expensive luxury who has come up short.
Speaking well of Ulster - meaningless to me that's what just about everyone does when they leave

Oh not sure about that, Anscombe and McLaughlin never really talked the place up.

I was thinking of people at the end of contracts - their words are meaningless

Bit different when people are sacked as those two were

toml wrote:I would have Elton over Joey every time. Carberry is not going to come permanently, only waiting for Sextons body to pack it in.

I wouldn't for the simple reason he takes up a NIE slot - Joey doesn't
1 year is fine with me - However not that interested if he doesn't want to come
I suspect he will end up at Munster
He can wait Sextons body packs it in but:
1 - that may be 2/3 years away
2 - no guarantee he will be in front of Bryne

geoff999rugby wrote:

toml wrote:I would have Elton over Joey every time. Carberry is not going to come permanently, only waiting for Sextons body to pack it in.

I wouldn't for the simple reason he takes up a NIE slot - Joey doesn't
1 year is fine with me - However not that interested if he doesn't want to come
I suspect he will end up at Munster
He can wait Sextons body packs it in but:
1 - that may be 2/3 years away
2 - no guarantee he will be in front of  Bryne

I agree, although for some reason Leo and Lancaster don't seem to rate him as highly as Schmidt.

Honestly I'd only be interested in Carbury, or Keatley, as a 15 who can cover for 10. I think we are very weak at full back with Piatau, Payne and Olding gone.

Ludik has a great work rate and attitude but isn't a top quality back 3 player.

McPhillips has done really well and the club should back him as starting 10 next season.

It''s not really fair to compare Leinster and Ireland. Schmidt is obviously looking at Carbery with a view to taking him to the RWC as a 'bench' player. He can offer impact and cover both 10 or 15. Byrne doesn't offer that mix and Leinster don't need him to.

Any news on Luke?

rodders wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

toml wrote:I would have Elton over Joey every time. Carberry is not going to come permanently, only waiting for Sextons body to pack it in.

I wouldn't for the simple reason he takes up a NIE slot - Joey doesn't
1 year is fine with me - However not that interested if he doesn't want to come
I suspect he will end up at Munster
He can wait Sextons body packs it in but:
1 - that may be 2/3 years away
2 - no guarantee he will be in front of  Bryne

I agree, although for some reason Leo and Lancaster don't seem to rate him as highly as Schmidt.

Honestly I'd only be interested in Carbury, or Keatley, as a 15 who can cover for 10. I think we are very weak at full back with Piatau, Payne and Olding gone.

Ludik has a great work rate and attitude but isn't a top quality back 3 player.

McPhillips has done really well and the club should back him as starting 10 next season.

Agree with all of that.
Another reason to take Keatley over the Saffer
We are short at 15 as well as 10 and playing Keatley at 15 with a young 10 would be a smart move.

Being reported Marshall AND Ludik will miss most of next season

marty2086 wrote:Being Marshall AND Ludik will miss most of next season

Ahhhhh shiiiiitee

That certainly makes the new ‘light’ squad look like a bad idea in hindsight.

We barely have a half decent starting back line now. Quality right off a cliff after that.

A season or two ago this would be grounds for an injury cover signing.

Where is it being reported Clive?

Independent reporting it geoff

Right now we are working with Cooney, McPhillips, Stockdale, McCloskey, Cave, Gilroy, Addison (at 15).

Then who? Nelson, Busby, Lyttle, Curtis?

And yes, Addison is a utility back and I think I heard someone say he's played at 15 a bit.

Just signed Iwan Hughes signed into academy.
At Bristol, IQ and a 15

Played for England U-18s and Ireland U-19s
Guessing he is 19 - seems to be a very decent prospect

We will be seeing a lot of Hume this year - an exciting prospect
Busby, Owens wil lI assume be retained as backups

Kernohan will get more games than originally planned

We are going to have to hand players dummies out at half time soon they are so young

Looking at his highlights reel he seems to have also represented Scotland and Wales. at underage. He gets around it would seem.

So what great draw brings him to Ulster? Is he any more connected to whatever Irish heritage he has, or did nobody else want him? Is he going to Queens to study?


Edit: Think I'm wrong on the Scotland one. Think those clips are showcasing his tackling. It's hard to tell whats what. young lads in scrum caps on bad video quality all look the same!

Say, I can think of a 10 and a utility back on the market who would go a long way to solving this problem. Local lads too.

Your right Wales he has but not Scotland.
By the name you would guess Welsh somewhere along the line, picked up by Bristol.
He played for Ireland before Ulster showed any interest.
Obviously has, at least, a grandparent somewhere

FFS

That is all

At best here is our current team for the first match

Warwick, McBurney, Moore
AOC, Treadwell
Coetzee, Deysel, Timoney
Stewart, McPhillips
Gilroy, McCloskey, Cave, Lyttle
Addison

Bench: McCall, Andrews, Herbst, Lutton, Rea, Shanahan, Curtis, Nelson

Will someone wrap those 23 guys up in cotton wool because TH and backrow apart there is very very little else left in the cupboard

In all serious, that means next year the senior squad will be without an entire top level backline:

9) Marshall
10) Jackson
11) Trimble
12) Marshall
13) Payne
14) Bowe
15) Piatau
22) Olding
23) Ludik

And the only player coming in is Addison. At what point can we get some help? This is where we really suffer for having a D4 Yes-man at the top. You just know that he's not fighting our case to Nucifora et al to anywhere near the extent he should be.

You think McBurney will be ahead of Andrew next season geoff?

Yes and he wont be the only youngster making a breakthrough.
To be fair maybe not game 1 though

To be honest I do think the article is overly pessimistic with respect to Ludik - I cant see him missing more than half a season at most
Bad enough though

If Luke is an ACL that is, effectively, him put for the season

I like the look of McBurney and hoped he'd get more of a look in this season but also think Andrew is a good player and brought a lot to the team when he was given a chance this season.

Suppose it will all depend on the new coach though

One of the very few positions where we are well served - perhaps the only one

And Allen Clarkes boy has some potential too from what I hear

Hopefully though the IRFU allow Ulster an injury NIQ signing like Munster got when Saili was injured and they brought Taute in, could well be Ulster are talking up the severity of Ludiks injury to push the need forfor such a signing

I heard somewhere we have a much reduced budget so will have a smaller squad, any truth in that?

Bad news on Marshall, he's been in really good form but suppose Cave is a decent stand in.

So Connacht got Andy Friend as head coach who IS rolling up for a full preseason. It'll be interesting to gauge how he goes in comparison to our very own Dan. Will we have dodged a bullet or missed the bus?
Also been told that the Sale deal is still very much on for Paddy Jackson.

Pete330v2 wrote:So Connacht got Andy Friend as head coach who IS rolling up for a full preseason. It'll be interesting to gauge how he goes in comparison to our very own Dan. Will we have dodged a bullet or missed the bus?

Was listening to the BelTels Ulster podcast the other day, they highlighted John Cooneys quote about McFarland...'he must have really impressed Joe'

Would seem like Joe wanted him in Ulster no matter what, I wonder if the IRFU or Ulster then have to stump up the cash for his release clause

Pete330v2 wrote:Also been told that the Sale deal is still very much on for Paddy Jackson.

Sale really are a strange club

Something else to cheer everyone up

Season Ticket sales pass 6,500 mark