Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

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Ulster Rugby

Final Table
               GP   Points
Leinster    21     70
Scarlets    21     70
Edinburgh 21     68
Ulster       21     62
Benetton   21     55
Dragons    21     20
Kings        21     11

Season Outcome: Playoff for Champions Cup Spot

Ulster are in the Champions Cup

Gibes is not coaching the Chiefs. just Waikato who are one of several provinces that make up the chiefs franchise

Bay of Plenty
Counties Manukau
King Country
Thames Valley
Waikato
Taranaki

Yep if true, both Olding and Jackson are dropping down a level.

Still reckon he will be at Sale in September

toml wrote:Still reckon he will be at Sale in September

Agreed

Leinster apparently signing Joe Tomane. Another NIQ in a position they just lost an NIQ, just in case you had all forgotten it's one rule for them and another rule for us.

Not so sure there JmD. I dont know what position Nacewa was declared as or what position Tomane. Its shrewd because you have that leeway. Look at Fardy

I'm beginning to doubt we re to be treated equally next year

Munster
Taute, Botha, Marshall, Kleyn, Cloete

Leinster
Fardy, Lowe, Gibson-Park, Tomane

Ulster
Coetzee, Deysel

Ignoring VdeMerwe as he may not even be here next year, and if he is he probably wont play - just occupy a bench for a year before going home
Don't say serves us right we only have him on the books because of two coaches who were pushed in our direction by the IRFU - Kiss and Clarke

We have been turned down for a 10 and nothing moving on getting a LH
Ireland lack quality at 10 but are the backs any different, where Tomane plays ?
Centre - Henshaw, Ringrose, Aki. Maybes - Farrell, McCloskey
Back three  - Stockdale, Earls, Kearney. Maybes - Gilroy, Conway, Larmour
Would we not be better having IQ players playing than spots being blocked by NIQ players
Also the multi position argument for Nacewa, Tomane and Fardy doesn't hold water.
Pienaer plays multiple position but he was not allowed to stay

Looks to me the IRFU are keeping Leinster and Munster competitive for next year but cutting costs at Ulster
and forcing us to develop youngsters for the future, and not worrying about our competiveness

That is treating us differently

You left out Arnold in the centres but when you have guys like Noel Reid in there too who surely would benefit from more game time and it would be beneficial to Ireland too.

James Lowe, though he's a great player to watch, was signed with a number of young players coming through in his position. Given the foreign squad player limitations for the ERCC young players are less likely to get opportunities there so it means guys like Lowe or Nacewa were going to in league games meaning those young players paths were blocked.

If Im not mistaken Fardy is officially signed as a second row but has played more in the back row for Leinster

Standulstermen wrote:Not so sure there JmD. I dont know what position Nacewa was declared as or what position Tomane. Its shrewd because you have that leeway. Look at Fardy

We can say with relative certainty the he either he plays the same position as James Lowe or the same position as Nacewa.

Don't be forgetting Connacht, they are allowed to get the cheque book out as well while we have had ours taken off us.

If we can't get rid of ‘Hond’ VdM then surely it makes sense for us to at least be able to discount him as a hangover from the previous regime and consign him to the scrapheap of benching for perhaps Clogher To look back and say it's our own fault hardly helps us going forward and we're in dire need.

As time goes on it's becoming increasingly clear that Carberry will be Munster-bound as it seems he's met with van Graan yet failed to meet with anyone at Ulster (allegedly). Personally I certainly do not want any of the Munster cast offs and would in that case prefer us to go with McPhillips and Lowry. A better outcome of course would be to allow us to sign a decent outhalf but that seems to be a pipe dream too far as that would actually benefit Ulster Rugby. The longer we have to wait the less likely it’ll be anyone decent won’t already have been snapped up elsewhere.

WE NEED SOME POSITIVE ANNOUNCEMENTS SOON!!

While the fans could certainly do with some announcements the reality is we havent had a coach in place that long, nor indeed is the make up of our backroom staff fully known yet. I'd hold off on the outrage until all the dust has settled.

Geoff
Pienaar plays 9 or 10 which just happen to be the two positions Nucifora is tight on. Outside of 10 occasionally Nacewa played 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. Tomane can also play at least 4 of those positions. I agree Ulster are in dire need of someone with a strong hand to deal with Dublin. Its one of the main criticisms of Logan but nobody is in a strong position. We will see come September and if Keatley is the sum total of our remaining signings I would agree with you guys and I would be for leaving the whole sorry mess behind but I will wait and see.

Forget it guys it will be a tight ship for the next few seasons.

No BBC NI TV deal, reduction in corporate sponsor interest and Nucifera playing hard ball until we implement grassroots reforms and restructuring.

Big cuts to playing and non playing staff will continue after an internal review found we had far too many on the payroll, the cull is just starting.

geoff999rugby wrote:I'm beginning to doubt we re to be treated equally next year

Munster
Taute, Botha, Marshall, Kleyn, Cloete

Leinster
Fardy, Lowe, Gibson-Park, Tomane

Ulster
Coetzee, Deysel

Ignoring VdeMerwe as he may not even be here next year, and if he is he probably wont play - just occupy a bench for a year before going home
Don't say serves us right we only have him on the books because of two coaches who were pushed in our direction by the IRFU - Kiss and Clarke

We have been turned down for a 10 and nothing moving on getting a LH
Ireland lack quality at 10 but are the backs any different, where Tomane plays ?
Centre - Henshaw, Ringrose, Aki. Maybes - Farrell, McCloskey
Back three  - Stockdale, Earls, Kearney. Maybes - Gilroy, Conway, Larmour
Would we not be better having IQ players playing than spots being blocked by NIQ players
Also the multi position argument for Nacewa, Tomane and Fardy doesn't hold water.
Pienaer plays multiple position but he was not allowed to stay

Looks to me the IRFU are keeping Leinster and Munster competitive for next year but cutting costs at Ulster
and forcing us to develop youngsters for the future, and not worrying about our competiveness

That is treating us differently

On the plus side Leinster's success is built almost completely on young players coming through so if Ulster can emulate that in the long term they will be on the right track.

There is no success without good indigenous players so in my view there is no point in signing good quality foreign players until you get that right. Its just a waste of money and I do think that since Ulster made the Heineken cup final in 99(?) most of their successes have been over reliant on imports.

I endorse the IRFUs strategy. You might just have to take the pain for a few years like Leinster did.

rodders wrote:Forget it guys it will be a tight ship for the next few seasons.

No BBC NI TV deal, reduction in corporate sponsor interest and Nucifera playing hard ball until we implement grassroots reforms and restructuring.

Big cuts to playing and non playing staff will continue after an internal review found we had far too many on the payroll, the cull is just starting.

Yeah rodders but we get more money from the TV deal that we have now. There may be a reduction in sponsors but we have yet to see it. There is no way in hell Nucifora can say we have too big a squad. We have too much crud floating about in it yes but not too big. If he thinks the way to go about it is to starve the province of signings he will find it backfires quite spectacularly. I dont think he will be that bad.

Not to mention that after losing Pienaar, FvDM, Piutau, Jackson and Olding Ulsters outgoings will be down with income up whereas Munster bulk their squad up while carrying huge debts and no red flags are raised?

marty - I did not forget Arnold - I don't think he is god enough for Ireland, nor do I think Scanell or Ludik are.
The only player I omitted who I think is is Marshall but he is effectively out for all next season.

Stand it is true Pienaer is primarily a 9 or a 10, part time 15 also.
I mentioned him only to exaggerate a point. Nacewa, Tomane, Taute have contracts across the backline.
As my list suggest I don't believe Ireland have much depth there and, like 10 are an injury or two away from a serious problem.
In those circumstances should NIQ players be playing here? if the primary requirement of all teams is to develop local talent ?

We are being treated differently next year because the intention is ensure Leinster and Munster are competitive, that is not happening here.
Now it is absolutely true that was not the case in the past and we can have no complaints for most of the last 8 to 10 years we had a rich vein of NIQ players at Ulster.

I think Rodders has it spot on

reduction in corporate sponsor interest and Nucifera playing hard ball until we implement grassroots reforms and restructuring.

Big cuts to playing and non playing staff will continue after an internal review found we had far too many on the payroll, the cull is just starting.


Basically the IRFU have lost patience with managerial incompetence both on and off the field until two things have happened.
1 - We get our house in order
2 - The WC is over i.e. I expect some better NIQ to be signed this time next year, provided point 1 has been achieved

I do not agree re reduction in TV money it is the complete opposite with the Premier Sports money - even at an individual province level it dwarfs anything that has come before.

Collapse said:
most of their successes have been over reliant on imports.

You might just have to take the pain for a few years like Leinster did.

You have a point re the first line.
The second is not true, anything Leinster went through bares no comparison with what Ulster are going through.
Also there is a problem that the greater catchment area and population accessibility means Leinster will produce more players, if all other factors are equal

Nucifora has to play ball to some extent - in some areas of the pitch we have insufficient players to fulfil all fixtures at both 1st XV and 'A' team level and that's without a serious crop of injuries

In other news Neil Best has tweeted Logan will leave in June and Paddy Jackson could be going to Perpignan

geoff999rugby wrote:marty - I did not forget Arnold - I don't think he is god enough for Ireland, nor do I think Scanell or Ludik are.
The only player I omitted who I think is is Marshall but he is effectively out for all next season.

I think given Arnolds age and lack of games he has plenty of room to develop, I'd have had him ahead of Farrell for most of this season.

geoff999rugby wrote:In other news Neil Best has tweeted Logan will leave in June and Paddy Jackson could be going to Perpignan

It may have been you on here geoff but pretty sure it was elsewhere that Logan really lacks the awareness of his position and is under the belief that he is the man to take Ulster forward, I know you've pointed out though that no one else believes that anymore

I have ben told it is when not if with Logan.
Crucially the committees have turned on him

I agree Arnold has been better than Farrell, but I simply don't believe he has the hands for International rugby.
He was Ulsters 6th best centre when he left for a reason.

Don't get me wrong I am not convinced about McCloskey or Farrell either, but their power means they may, and it is only a may,
be capable of stepping up.

All of the above proves my point Ireland have only 3 centres who can be trusted to play centre at the moment so why are NIQs
being allowed to be signed and as such block Irish youngsters.
We have no depth in the centre and little in the back three.

Good performances by the Ulster boys at the Under-20 WC - Agnew and Stewart were outstanding
Agnew and Dunleavy will be making their breakthrough this year, I am certain.
Backrow, along with TH and Hooker the only places we have the numbers

The Irish backs were woeful in defence

geoff999rugby wrote:Good performances by the Ulster boys at the Under-20 WC - Agnew and Stewart were outstanding
Agnew and Dunleavy will be making their breakthrough this year, I am certain.
Backrow, along with TH and Hooker the only places we have the numbers

The Irish backs were woeful in defence

Stewart seemed more commanding than O'Sullivan and that kick towards the end, when it looked like the pass was the best option, I thought showed some class. Just a pity the lineout was butchered

Contracts:
Ignoring Academy players - all of the good ones can be assumed to have been offered contracts I reckon we are down to
4 outstanding/not announced

Prop - Ah You, VdeMewe
Backthree - Busby, Owens

My take on those is VdeMerwe may be kept because we are desperately short of LH, he has a contract anyway and miracles sometimes occur
Ah You - if seen as only a TH I don't see the point (we have Moore, Herbst, Kane, O'Toole)
            if he is retained then I fear they will play him at LH.
            My guess if we are signing a LH - he is out the door
            Essentially our LHs for next year are Warwick, McCall, O'Hagan + one of VdeMerwe, Ah You, ANOTHER

As for the back three guys I reckon the injury, to Ludik, has definitely saved one from the chop and possibly both.
If only one goes It will be Owens

My prediction is Busby stays and Owens goes, provided we signing a IQ 10/15, otherwise they both stay

If you are correct Geoff and we are stopped from making signings and that precludes a season like this one I wont be renewing again. Screw the politics of it, if nucifora feels certain parts of the organisation need taught a lesson thats fine. Dont punish the fans who unlike those in other provinces actually turn up regardless of success. I say IF because i'll believe it when I see it.

Now I am looking forward and hoping that our young guys can step up and ensure that doesnt happen. Agnew looks to me like a new Chris Henry but hopefully with more years on him because he wont be thrown into different positions. He would be my pick to integrate first and foremost. Like I said earlier on this thread. im not expecting a raft of signings or indeed huge names but 2/3 good, experienced heads in a few key positions.

21 unanswered points early in the 2nd half and the lack of a functioning lineout made life a little more difficult to say the least. Despite that they were able to provide a nail biter at the end and I really thought they were just going to nick it.
That French pack are all flippin huge, bunch of 30 year old, seasoned international ringers

Guys quick change of topic - I need some help getting to grips with the TV deal situation....

So I have sky sports now but looks like outside the summer and November internationals they have very little now in terms of NH rugby.

Pro14 is on Eirsport? Is that available in NI, if so how much and and will it have all the games?

The champions cup is all on BT sport or is that split coverage also?

Basically I want all Ulsters games and ideally the other pro14/Champions cup games too. What is the easiest way to do this?

Thanks!

You can get eirSport on Virgin rodders and maybe Sky too but with all the money being spent you'll probably see them being geoblocked so your best bet is getting PremierSport for £10 a month plus BT Sport.

Then get Sky Sports a few times during the year if you don't need it most of the year

CHamps cup is all BT with a couple of games on free to air. The premiersports thing im not sure n but apparently they currently have 1 channel and are creating another to be able to show all the Pro14. Theres an app I know and the cost is apparently a tenner a month. Our old sky box in work used to get eir sport but I imagine with a different provider now for this region it would be blocked like rte do for international games

Get BT Sport and Premier Sports and ditch Sky is the way to go.

I get BT Sport as part of my Virgin package (that's all of Europe and the English covered)
Premier Sport is current £10 a month and that will give you 6 of the 7 Pro14 matches on two channels
(Virgin currently only have one of those  but I believe that is because the second channel hasn't been launched yet)
The 7th match is on Freeview channel called Free Sport.
Not on my Freeview it isn't but I understand you need to get a special box for that - will investigate around August time

Eir will be blocked in the North unless you get a special southern box

If you know someone with BT Sport on Virgin, there's a Virgin app that allows for two users and you can watch BT on there. Can save you a few quid

Thanks so sounds like premier sport and BT sports are the way to go.

My only concern with premier and BT would they focus live coverage on the English, Welsh and Scottish teams, with the provinces, including Ulster, geoblocked on Eirsport.

All league games will be on PremierSport or FreeSport so you'll get all Ulster games, not sure about BT but likely all ERCC games will be broadcast too like Sky used to do. How much build up etc you get is another thing

Marty has it right

Even if you get access to Eir they will concentrate on Leinster and Munster so you are no better off

Sounds good.... the only question now is will the quality of rugby be worth watching ....

CArberry to Munster for 3 years is gathering momentum.

So with 5 10s on Munster books does this mean:
Keatley to Ulster?
Bleydaal to retire?
Or the really funny on what if Munster play Carbery at 15 - their a bit short there

rodders wrote:Guys quick change of topic - I need some help getting to grips with the TV deal situation....

So I have sky sports now but looks like outside the summer and November internationals they have very little now in terms of NH rugby.

Pro14 is on Eirsport? Is that available in NI, if so how much and and will it have all the games?

The champions cup is all on BT sport or is that split coverage also?

Basically I want all Ulsters games and ideally the other pro14/Champions cup games too. What is the easiest way to do this?

Thanks!

Your best way to go is with BT and Premier Sports

BT have all of the Champions cup games now, if you have a BT broadband pack or get one then you can get BT sport quite cheaply
Premier Sport have all the Pro 14 games from next season, it's £9.99 per month and you can get it for Sky, Virgin or on it's own online player.
If you have a Sky box and get the Premier Sports package you also get free access to the Premier Sport player which means you can watch the channel on your tv and someone else could watch online. That way if you have a friend who wants to watch they could chip in and save you some money.
For Premier Spots on Sky you only need the Sky Box, you don't actually need the subscription because you can get it directly from premier sports and watch it on your Sky box much like you can with BT Sport.

Get yourself a decent free VPN and install Mobdro onto your phone or tablet as long as it's not an apple product. You can then watch every global sports channel and cast it to your TV using a chromecast or if you're all Samsunged up your phone will do it automatically. It's all for free and geoblocking cannot work. Seemples.

Pete330v2 wrote:Get yourself a decent free VPN and install Mobdro onto your phone or tablet as long as it's not an apple product. You can then watch every global sports channel and cast it to your TV using a chromecast or if you're all Samsunged up your phone will do it automatically. It's all for free and geoblocking cannot work. Seemples.

Mobdros not always reliable unfortunately, BT works better than most links on it but not always guaranteed

marty2086 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Get yourself a decent free VPN and install Mobdro onto your phone or tablet as long as it's not an apple product. You can then watch every global sports channel and cast it to your TV using a chromecast or if you're all Samsunged up your phone will do it automatically. It's all for free and geoblocking cannot work. Seemples.

Mobdros not always reliable unfortunately, BT works better than most links on it but not always guaranteed

It only lets me down on the very, very rare occasion Marty, the wrong stream attached to a channel usually. I love it and paired with having access to my mate's SkyGo app it's free sports heaven. I must find a friend that has the BT app next

Pete330v2 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Get yourself a decent free VPN and install Mobdro onto your phone or tablet as long as it's not an apple product. You can then watch every global sports channel and cast it to your TV using a chromecast or if you're all Samsunged up your phone will do it automatically. It's all for free and geoblocking cannot work. Seemples.

Mobdros not always reliable unfortunately, BT works better than most links on it but not always guaranteed

It only lets me down on the very, very rare occasion Marty, the wrong stream attached to a channel usually. I love it and paired with having access to my mate's SkyGo app it's free sports heaven. I must find a friend that has the BT app next

Or a Virgin App, it gets you access to the Sky Sports app and BT though Sky won't work on an Android box

marty2086 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Get yourself a decent free VPN and install Mobdro onto your phone or tablet as long as it's not an apple product. You can then watch every global sports channel and cast it to your TV using a chromecast or if you're all Samsunged up your phone will do it automatically. It's all for free and geoblocking cannot work. Seemples.

Mobdros not always reliable unfortunately, BT works better than most links on it but not always guaranteed

It only lets me down on the very, very rare occasion Marty, the wrong stream attached to a channel usually. I love it and paired with having access to my mate's SkyGo app it's free sports heaven. I must find a friend that has the BT app next

Or a Virgin App, it gets you access to the Sky Sports app and BT though Sky won't work on an Android box

Sky have it all tied up with their encryptions. Break those codes and you're flying.
That being said, if you hold your phone up at a certain distance from your face it is exactly the same size as the 50 inch TV across the living room

Standulstermen wrote:If you are correct Geoff and we are stopped from making signings and that precludes a season like this one I wont be renewing again. Screw the politics of it, if nucifora feels certain parts of the organisation need taught a lesson thats fine. Dont punish the fans who unlike those in other provinces actually turn up regardless of success. I say IF because i'll believe it when I see it.

Now I am looking forward and hoping that our young guys can step up and ensure that doesnt happen. Agnew looks to me like a new Chris Henry but hopefully with more years on him because he wont be thrown into different positions. He would be my pick to integrate first and foremost. Like I said earlier on this thread. im not expecting a raft of signings or indeed huge names but 2/3 good, experienced heads in a few key positions.

A lot of the impetus for change is coming direct from Schmidt - he is serious about taking Ireland forward and doesn't care especially about provincial fallout. He wants every province to be homologous to the other three. There is no place for outspoken staff like Gareth Robinson who have been at the province forever and therefore perceived to be unbending and ingrained in their methods - every detail in how the players are prepared has to be uniform. Kieran Keane was another who reputedly wanted to steer his own ship without input from on high, so he was told to sail off into the sunset.

Nucifora isn't teaching lessons but simply executing his employers demands and those demands come from Schmidt whose record means he is listened to - he has earned that level of influence and it is one of the reasons he remains with Ireland.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/end-era-ulster-lose-long-serving-duo-neil-best

Neil Best wrote:...had Shane Logan not been on notice himself, I think GG’s departure would have oddly been the straw that broke the camel’s back. Logan wouldn’t have been able to deliver GG’s removal for the IRFU and stay himself. In many ways that is why we are witnessing these things happen now. It’s all about easing the way for a new CEO -untarnished by unpopular decisions. It has suited the IRFU to saddle Logan with dispatching first Jackson and Olding -and now some longstanding backroom staff.

My advice to the incoming CEO is clear. If GG stays in Northern Ireland for his next role, make yourself popular and hand deliver him the Sparky outfit. Put him back on the touchline for next season and stick two fingers up to the IRFU in the process.

Joey to Munster on a 2 year deal then.

Carberry to Munster on a two year deal confirmed

Joe Schmidt wrote:All we asked was for Leinster to ask if Ross or Joey was interested in going up to Ulster.

Ulster were looking at a foreign option, so we wanted to see if there was interest.

The initial question I posed to Joey was 'have you any interest in going up to Ulster?'

I thought he was going to stay put.

So now we get to see how that plays out for Ulster, will they now get a foreign outhalf or will a Munster 10 be moving North

What an absolute farce. How on earth World Rugby can allow this merry-go-round of player swapping between teams owned by the same owners is just incredible.

If Munster end up with Carberry, Keatley, Bleyendaal, Hanrahan and Johnston, would it be a stretch to think two of the other 10s might head north?

If we were to get Keatley and one of Hanrahan, Johnston or Bleyendaal it would help with the depth elsewhere in the back line as Keatley can cover a number of position as can Hanrahan and Bleyendaal

RugbyFan100 wrote:What an absolute farce. How on earth World Rugby can allow this merry-go-round of player swapping between teams owned by the same owners is just incredible.

Are you back again?

What player swapping? There is one player, so no swap and what exactly is wrong with players moving clubs?

RugbyFan100 wrote:What an absolute farce. How on earth World Rugby can allow this merry-go-round of player swapping between teams owned by the same owners is just incredible.

Odd to be posting this on the thread for the team that Carbery isn't going to. Maybe take it up with the Munster and Leinster crowd?

marty2086 wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/news/end-era-ulster-lose-long-serving-duo-neil-best

Neil Best wrote:...had Shane Logan not been on notice himself, I think GG’s departure would have oddly been the straw that broke the camel’s back. Logan wouldn’t have been able to deliver GG’s removal for the IRFU and stay himself. In many ways that is why we are witnessing these things happen now. It’s all about easing the way for a new CEO -untarnished by unpopular decisions. It has suited the IRFU to saddle Logan with dispatching first Jackson and Olding -and now some longstanding backroom staff.

My advice to the incoming CEO is clear. If GG stays in Northern Ireland for his next role, make yourself popular and hand deliver him the Sparky outfit. Put him back on the touchline for next season and stick two fingers up to the IRFU in the process.

Gosh Neil has become a bit of a stirrer hasn't he.... maybe he's jealous he doesn't get as many Twitter followers as Roseanne Barr or Donald Trump....

Rory out of the Oz tour with a hamstring injury.

Doesn't he have access to a physio??????