Silly Season Transfer Rumours 17/18

First topic message reminder :

Rumours are that I want to move to another company because my boss is an @rse.

And there's something to those rumours, I can assure you.

Cordero is prob off from Exeter he would be a good target still.

This is very true. Cordero would offer a lot at wing and 15. Him and TV in the same backline would be a lot of fun to watch. We do need to inject more pace into the squad. I love Thompstone for his service to the club but he looked very slow Vs Gloucester, even his great positional work couldn't save him. Might be time for a replacement.

Would Jones and Cordero fit within the cap? Toomua's marquee is presumed (and direly hoped) to be going to a forward. If Manu is fit he will be in England plans, if he's in England's plans I'd presume he will stay. That leaves any back recruitment needing to fall into the cap.

Joe Ford --> Championship
Charlie Thacker ---> Championship
Holmes ---> Welsh region
Owen ---> ?
Tait ---> ?
Smith ---> ?
Thompstone ---> ?

That will free up some cap but not a lot. I expect that at least one of Owen, Tait and Smith will be retained for squad depth. Smith has been coaching and could see him moving into that full time.

Let's say
Tait - 150
Smith - 100
Owen - 150
Thompstone - 180
Would = 580K freed up.
So say 330K on Jones and 250K on Cordero could work.
These are rough guesses.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Smith go into one of the local schools with links to Tigers as their director of rugby. Tait will retire and probably Owen will be given a short term deal.

I would envisage Toomua's marquee spot going to a forward but with one or both of Fitzgerald and Kitchener moving on and some of their cap being "swapped" to a back in order to balance the spending as it were.

Sadly I think we've got another year of Joe Ford. Hardwick should hopefully surpass him proper soon and it is unlikely we'll get in anyone else who's happy to be so far down the pricing order. Hopefully Costelow will then step up as well and give us three good options moving forward.

If we lose Holmes and Thompstone then we really will have to go into the market hard for back three cover.

10 - Ford, Hardwick, Ford
Centre - Manu, Eastmond, Owen, Jones?
Wing - Owolofela, Aspland-Robinson
Fullback - TV, Worth

That's not including Costelow, Dunn or Steward but not sure when or if they'll be ready to step up next season.

With a bit of luck Welly we'd keep enough of that combined cap for a Championship winger or another project.

Welly wrote: Let's say
Tait - 150
Smith - 100
Owen - 150
Thompstone - 180
Would = 580K freed up.
So say 330K on Jones and 250K on Cordero could work.
These are rough guesses.

A well thought out breakdown Welly, but I'd guess that Cordero will be looking at a lot more than 250k if he's going on the market. Particularly in a post RWC season when wages swell.

Cordero would seem a pretty good Willie le Roux replacement for Wasps to look at...

king_carlos wrote:. Particularly in a post RWC season when wages swell.

Will they swell? There will be greater supply with more SH players heading north and similar levels of demand for back three players. Sure some big contracts will be handed out but more to superstars from NZ.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

king_carlos wrote:. Particularly in a post RWC season when wages swell.

Will they swell? There will be greater supply with more SH players heading north and similar levels of demand for back three players. Sure some big contracts will be handed out but more to superstars from NZ.

Each year the amount being asked for grows making it harder for clubs to balance the books in regards to salary cap, no ones coming in asking for the same money or less. A lot of contracts are up post RWC so the cumulative affect will really be felt then

marty2086 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

king_carlos wrote:. Particularly in a post RWC season when wages swell.

Will they swell? There will be greater supply with more SH players heading north and similar levels of demand for back three players. Sure some big contracts will be handed out but more to superstars from NZ.

Each year the amount being asked for grows making it harder for clubs to balance the books in regards to salary cap, no ones coming in asking for the same money or less. A lot of contracts are up post RWC so the cumulative affect will really be felt then

That's general wage rises due to the impact of additional TV money and agents looking to get a good deal. Incidentally not all players seek wage rises everytime.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

king_carlos wrote:. Particularly in a post RWC season when wages swell.

Will they swell? There will be greater supply with more SH players heading north and similar levels of demand for back three players. Sure some big contracts will be handed out but more to superstars from NZ.

Each year the amount being asked for grows making it harder for clubs to balance the books in regards to salary cap, no ones coming in asking for the same money or less. A lot of contracts are up post RWC so the cumulative affect will really be felt then

That's general wage rises due to the impact of additional TV money and agents looking to get a good deal. Incidentally not all players seek wage rises everytime.

Most players though are wanting more money and rightfully so and given the cap has stayed the same for a few years and is set to for another few years I believe, then it will lead to smaller squads. If clubs want to sign big name SH players post RWC then you'll probably see a real crossroads for clubs

king_carlos wrote:

Welly wrote: Let's say
Tait - 150
Smith - 100
Owen - 150
Thompstone - 180
Would = 580K freed up.
So say 330K on Jones and 250K on Cordero could work.
These are rough guesses.

A well thought out breakdown Welly, but I'd guess that Cordero will be looking at a lot more than 250k if he's going on the market. Particularly in a post RWC season when wages swell.

Cordero would seem a pretty good Willie le Roux replacement for Wasps to look at...

It will be twice as much as what he is on currently.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
That's not including Costelow, Dunn or Steward but not sure when or if they'll be ready to step up next season.

With a bit of luck Welly we'd keep enough of that combined cap for a Championship winger or another project.

Well Dunn has to be with us to play for us for starters.

Rodney Ah You has signed up to the Falcons with immediate effect.

Not sure there will be much wage inflation post WC. A number of players came north thi syear stating they thought the "market" would be flooded after the WC with stars looking for paydays.


We will be hitting a point where supply exceeds demand and players many players may well have to accept the same or less than they currently get as those could be the best offers on the table. In the GP we will see marquee players looking for big money.

Welly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:
That's not including Costelow, Dunn or Steward but not sure when or if they'll be ready to step up next season.

With a bit of luck Welly we'd keep enough of that combined cap for a Championship winger or another project.

Well Dunn has to be with us to play for us for starters.

Where's he gone? He was with the academy as recently as this summer. I thought we might see some more young backs from the academy with him and Steward looking the business as well as possibly Costelow should we be able to keep him in this country.

He's struggling to get a visa.

Personally Tigers could do with losing.
Gigena
Hills
McMillon
Fitzgerald
Kitchener
Kalamafoni (Who I actually like)
Mapapalangi
Joe Ford
Owen
Thacker
Tait
Smith
Thompstone

Bring in 2 locks, a backrower, 2 centres a Wing/15 and a 15.

Damn let's hope he pledges his allegiance to England and the RFU step in and help out. From what I had heard he'd spent a lot of time growing up in Norfolk.

I wouldn't argue with that list Welly. All I would say is that it would leave us short at 10 and LH unless replacements are signed. Genge will be called up for England and Hardwick is still not 20 despite the fact he looks and plays like someone 10 years older. I'm not a fan of Gigena or Joe Ford but they do a job cheaply.

I'd also be tempted to jettison Williams before Kalamafoni as well.

Fluxy wrote:Rodney Ah You has signed up to the Falcons with immediate effect.

Like the old abbott and Costello thing...

Whos at tight head...
Ah you!
Who me?
No hes at loosehead...

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Fluxy wrote:Rodney Ah You has signed up to the Falcons with immediate effect.

Like the old abbott and Costello thing...

Whos at tight head...
Ah you!
Who me?
No hes at loosehead...

No he's definitely a tighthead.

Or is he a loosehead?

It's hard to remember it's been that long since he played.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Damn let's hope he pledges his allegiance to England and the RFU step in and help out. From what I had heard he'd spent a lot of time growing up in Norfolk.

I wouldn't argue with that list Welly. All I would say is that it would leave us short at 10 and LH unless replacements are signed. Genge will be called up for England and Hardwick is still not 20 despite the fact he looks and plays like someone 10 years older. I'm not a fan of Gigena or Joe Ford but they do a job cheaply.

I'd also be tempted to jettison Williams before Kalamafoni as well.

Hardwick will be 20/21 next season which is the right time for him to take up. Nothing saying that one of the players we signed can't cover 10 either.
Grahamslaw at 20/21 next season will IMO view be able to be looked as potential 1st team cover.
Lines will also be 20 next season.

They are young but most other teams 4th and 5th choice props are academy players now.

If an injury happens we have the injury cap to dip into.

I'm more than happy for Hardwick to be wearing the 22 shirt for the rest of the season now. The concern is if he gets a long term injury then we're left with Ford and an 18 year old we've not yet seen come into the first team. Joe is handy emergency cover for one year. Unless as you say we can find another centre or fullback that can cover 10.

Can't comment on the the two young props because I've not seen them play. Grahamslaw is a converted 8 isn't he? It will I suppose depend on Ma'afu's replacement. Currently Fe'ao is doing us a real favour in playing both sides.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Welly wrote: Is he that happy in Glasgow?

Hopefully not because he's a good player that can play 12 and 13. Give us some nice rotation in the centres with Eastmond/Jones/Manu. Worth and A N Other (maybe Owen) to provide squad support.

Add a fullback and maybe a wing if Thompstone goes and then it's concentrate on the pack. Ben Loader happy at LI?

Saw some fairly 2+2=5 rumour with us an LCD as he's not yet agreed a new deal at the Chiefs.

Jones is needed much more at Tigers next year than he is needed at Glasgow. 

I'd be sorry to see him go as he's clearly test class and coming into his prime, but this article pretty much captures my thoughts entirely:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/17236234.huw-jones-exit-could-provide-room-for-stafford-mcdowell-to-flourish/

Pete330v2 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Fluxy wrote:Rodney Ah You has signed up to the Falcons with immediate effect.

Like the old abbott and Costello thing...

Whos at tight head...
Ah you!
Who me?
No hes at loosehead...

No he's definitely a tighthead.

Or is he a loosehead?

It's hard to remember it's been that long since he played.

Was a more than decent backup to White and Bealham the year Connacht won the title, his form has gone through the roof ever since, which coincide with him moving to Ulster.

VinceWLB wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Fluxy wrote:Rodney Ah You has signed up to the Falcons with immediate effect.

Like the old abbott and Costello thing...

Whos at tight head...
Ah you!
Who me?
No hes at loosehead...

No he's definitely a tighthead.

Or is he a loosehead?

It's hard to remember it's been that long since he played.

Was a more than decent backup to White and Bealham the year Connacht won the title, his form has gone through the roof ever since, which coincide with him moving to Ulster.

He's a tighthead who has previously played loosehead and was given a contract at Ulster this season to cover loosehead though played tighthead for the As

He started well enough at Ulster but had issues with fitness and discipline, his weight has visibly went up and down and he is capable of some real brainfarts in a game where he'd just dive into a ruck or tackle a player off the ball

He hasn't been helped by Ulsters scrum seemingly getting progressively worse in recent seasons

Welly wrote: He's struggling to get a visa.

Personally Tigers could do with losing.
Gigena
Hills
McMillon
Fitzgerald
Kitchener
Kalamafoni (Who I actually like)
Mapapalangi
Joe Ford
Owen
Thacker
Tait
Smith
Thompstone

Bring in 2 locks, a backrower, 2 centres a Wing/15 and a 15.

Isnt Thacker already with Bristol.....or was that a loan deal?

propdavid_london wrote:

Welly wrote: He's struggling to get a visa.

Personally Tigers could do with losing.
Gigena
Hills
McMillon
Fitzgerald
Kitchener
Kalamafoni (Who I actually like)
Mapapalangi
Joe Ford
Owen
Thacker
Tait
Smith
Thompstone

Bring in 2 locks, a backrower, 2 centres a Wing/15 and a 15.

Isnt Thacker already with Bristol.....or was that a loan deal?

Younger brother Charlie. Inside centre which got a couple of England under 20 caps by virtue of the preferred options playing for their clubs, now 22. Will do well in the Championship but lacks the footwork of his older brother so is always likely to be limited as he also lacks any kicking game or passing game of note.

The rugby paper now saying Huw Jones has changed his mind on Tigers and is going to stay with Glasgow.

Ben Kay was actually very non-committal, to the point of unenthusiastic about the prospect when asked about it on Rugby Tonight last week, which made you wonder if it was actually happening.

It will be nice to put this one to bed, for Glasgow and Leicester fans.

Yeh Glasgow up the offer to pretty much match Tigers last minute.

Wonder if his AI performances gave the SRU the push they wanted?

Welly wrote: Yeh Glasgow up the offer to pretty much match Tigers last minute.

Wonder if his AI performances gave the SRU the push they wanted?

He is our other x factor player, though it is fair to say he has not shown it so much in Glasgow colours yet. It is a big statement of intent for the club to push out the chequebook to try and hang on to him.

I suspect Tigers are looking to manage their cap spend and with Manu needing a new contract they aren't going to get into a bidding war with Glasgow and the SRU. They'll have allocated an amount to spend on a third top end centre and in a world cup year won't be short of other options.

Shame I liked the idea of a Ford, Jones, Manu midfield combination.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I suspect Tigers are looking to manage their cap spend and with Manu needing a new contract they aren't going to get into a bidding war with Glasgow and the SRU. They'll have allocated an amount to spend on a third top end centre and in a world cup year won't be short of other options.

Shame I liked the idea of a Ford, Jones, Manu midfield combination.

That was pretty much the gist of what Ben Kay was saying on Rugby Tonight last week, so you suspect he knew that Jones was not coming.

BigGee wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I suspect Tigers are looking to manage their cap spend and with Manu needing a new contract they aren't going to get into a bidding war with Glasgow and the SRU. They'll have allocated an amount to spend on a third top end centre and in a world cup year won't be short of other options.

Shame I liked the idea of a Ford, Jones, Manu midfield combination.

That was pretty much the gist of what Ben Kay was saying on Rugby Tonight last week, so you suspect he knew that Jones was not coming.

I suspect once Glasgow and the SRU were willing to match the Tigers contract offer there was little interest in him coming. Can't blame him really it's not like Tigers are the draw we once were.

I've heard Jesse Kriel to Tigers from a couple of sources.

These days it's hard to tell whether it's hope/desperation from the fans or just easy agent talk when Tigers get linked to everyone. It's such common knowledge that Tigers need to improve recruitment that agents would be idiots not to take the easy bargaining chip.

From the Tigers side of things it feels like our recruitment is stuck in a more successful (and bygone) era. Jack Singleton is supposedly taking a pay cut to go to Sarries as second choice, the allure of trophies and ERCC knockout rugby right there. In the not distant past that was Tigers allure, but it's gone and the suits views to recruitment are stuck in the past.

LCD rumoured to be leaving Chiefs due to salary cap constraints and linked with Tigers too - though as you mention, KC,  Worcester are losing Singleton so they have apparently expressed an interest.

Some slight rumbles that Goneva might be off to France for a final pay day. Or maybe his contract is up and his agent is starting the negotiations with leaking some cr@p.

LondonTiger wrote:LCD rumoured to be leaving Chiefs due to salary cap constraints and linked with Tigers too - though as you mention, KC,  Worcester are losing Singleton so they have apparently expressed an interest.

TPN is rumoured to be off, Tigers have been linked with LCD and Taylor on and off.

I rate both highly but a part of me would prefer Tigers to target vital recruitment and make more frugal investment in other positions. Jake Kerr is a good player, Mahoney is a talent and OTY will be around a couple of seasons yet, although I can see it in an increasingly Julian White esque roll. I'd be very happy with signing a solid set-piece hooker such as Kevin Bryce, then targetting lock and centre players.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Some slight rumbles that Goneva might be off to France for a final pay day. Or maybe his contract is up and his agent is starting the negotiations with leaking some cr@p.

You have got a couple of very decent young wingers coming through, so maybe that id just the natural order of things.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Some slight rumbles that Goneva might be off to France for a final pay day. Or maybe his contract is up and his agent is starting the negotiations with leaking some cr@p.

A 3-year deal was one of the deciding factors in Goneva going to Falcons from what I've heard. Tigers didn't match wage or long term security, others matched wage but on shorter deals. In the end Niki went for a 3-year commitment in a league he knew over shorter deals in France.

It's his 3rd season with Falcons so that would be contract up. He's playing some excellent rugby still and the Kingston Park plastic pitch seems to agree with him. He'll be 35 this season though so a trip to Japan might extend his career and earn him a better wage.

king_carlos wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:LCD rumoured to be leaving Chiefs due to salary cap constraints and linked with Tigers too - though as you mention, KC,  Worcester are losing Singleton so they have apparently expressed an interest.

TPN is rumoured to be off, Tigers have been linked with LCD and Taylor on and off.

I rate both highly but a part of me would prefer Tigers to target vital recruitment and make more frugal investment in other positions. Jake Kerr is a good player, Mahoney is a talent and OTY will be around a couple of seasons yet, although I can see it in an increasingly Julian White esque roll. I'd be very happy with signing a solid set-piece hooker such as Kevin Bryce, then targetting lock and centre players.

I'd happily keep on Stevens or McMillan for another season to keep squad strength up and assist Kerr's transition to first choice ahead of Youngs. Mahoney could then play the A league and prem cup to gain experience. Tom is only 31 so he's got another two or three years in him you'd have thought. As much as I like LCD and Taylor they'd be expensive and our need is far greater in other areas.

LCD to Worcester is potentially a terrible move. They are much improved but unlikely to be playing top level European rugby so he risks drifting further down the England pecking order.

You guys really need to explain the acronyms for the benefit of luddites such as myself.

George Carlin wrote:You guys really need to explain the acronyms for the benefit of luddites such as myself.

LCD - Luke Cowan-Dickie
TPN - Tatafu Polota-Nau
OTY - Old Tom Youngs (a play on Ben Youngs always being referred to as young, young Ben Youngs, and Tom as old, old Tom Youngs)

king_carlos wrote:

George Carlin wrote:You guys really need to explain the acronyms for the benefit of luddites such as myself.

LCD - Luke Cowan-Dickie
TPN - Tatafu Polota-Nau
OTY - Old Tom Youngs (a play on Ben Youngs always being referred to as young, young Ben Youngs, and Tom as old, old Tom Youngs)

BigGee wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Some slight rumbles that Goneva might be off to France for a final pay day. Or maybe his contract is up and his agent is starting the negotiations with leaking some cr@p.

You have got a couple of very decent young wingers coming through, so maybe that id just the natural order of things.

We do...but its odd.

Radwan is scintillating, yet has barely played for ages, and Kibirgie is electric and yet is the same. Its almost like Dean isn't happy with some part of their game and just doesn't see them as trusted starters in the league.

He defaults to
Goneva
Sinoti
Tait (who is a full back NOT a winger)
and Arscott now - who to be fair has been very good since signing.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

BigGee wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Some slight rumbles that Goneva might be off to France for a final pay day. Or maybe his contract is up and his agent is starting the negotiations with leaking some cr@p.

You have got a couple of very decent young wingers coming through, so maybe that id just the natural order of things.

We do...but its odd.

Radwan is scintillating, yet has barely played for ages, and Kibirgie is electric and yet is the same. Its almost like Dean isn't happy with some part of their game and just doesn't see them as trusted starters in the league.

He defaults to
Goneva
Sinoti
Tait (who is a full back NOT a winger)
and Arscott now - who to be fair has been very good since signing.

It's alright we'll take Radwan down at Welford Road. May on one wing, him on the other and Vienau at fullback. Pace galore.

Guirado has signed for Montpellier for next season.

Fluxy wrote:Guirado has signed for Montpellier for next season.

Montpellier are the big spenders in France these days. Blow for Toulon to lose their captain but it's a long term deal at Montpellier and he isn't getting any younger.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/nov/28/premiership-clubs-cvc-deal-gazump-racing-92-move-kieran-read

A few days old but just seen it. Interesting...

Faletau is rumoured back to the regions is he not? Blackadder connection is there if Blackadder is still at Bath next season.

Wasps are apparently struggling to keep Nathan Hughes as well. Wasps are known to be unhappy about Willie le Roux continuing his international career when they apparently thought he'd be available for the full season. If both go then that opens up a lot of cash, a marquee spot and a vacancy at number 8.

Kwagga Smith is looking for a Prem club as well according to Fissler.

He's one hell of a player but I'd be interested to see how his style transferred over to Prem rugby in the wetter months.

Is Reid worth this reported million a season?? (Surely must be paper talk figures). He's not looked that great for a year or so now and 33yo is hardly going to get a new lease of life.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Is Reid worth this reported million a season?? (Surely must be paper talk figures). He's not looked that great for a year or so now and 33yo is hardly going to get a new lease of life.

33 and hardly injury free in recent times. I don't think coming up to play in Europe is a good idea for his personal life. It's an attritional season and it's going to take its toll on his body. He'd be much better off going to Japan.