Flight of the Southerners 2018

The story so far in Irish rugby.

Going, going, gone

Greg Feek - moving to work in Japan NEC club but staying in post until RWC 2019. Must be a record for longest work commute in the morning.
Isa Nacewa - retiring
Charles Piutau - Bristol
Jake Heenan - Bristol
Andrew Deegan - Western Force
Jonno Gibbes - NZ
Richardt Strauss - retiring
Stacey Ilii - released
Naulia Dawai - released
Pita Ahki - released
Kieran Keane - released
Christian Leali’ifano - end of short-term contract
Gerbrandt Grobler - end of short-term contract
Robbie Diack - released

Any more?

Schalk Van der Merwe?
Jared Payne? Retiring
Rodney Ah You?
Tyler Bleyendaal?
Marcel Coetzee?

Feeling safe

Jean Kleyn
Rhys Marshall
Jamison Gibson Park
James Lowe
Scott Fardy
Louis Ludik
Wiehann Herbst
Jean Deysel
Tom McCartney
Dominic Robertson McCoy
Jarad Butler
Chris Cloete
Jaco Taute

The title of the thread is in somewhat poor taste, considering the Flight of the Earls led to the Plantation of Ulster.

The Great Aukster wrote:The title of the thread is in somewhat poor taste, considering the Flight of the Earls led to the Plantation of Ulster.

Sure aren't ye all the better for it.  Plus does that mean we can include Earl Pienar who fled Ulster for France after he was on the losing side of the battle of Scrum Half in the list of brave Ulstermen driven from these shores. Those in the Pale will get their comeuppance (but not this weekend)

Perhaps he's referring to the flight of the swallows, back to Africa each year. Suggesting too that they'll all return one day soon, flying and swooping and catching flies in meadows at dawn and dusk and maybe playing some rugby in between...I want to write something about their forked tails but I'm worried it'll get me banned

The Great Aukster wrote:The title of the thread is in somewhat poor taste, considering the Flight of the Earls led to the Plantation of Ulster.

Earls isn’t leaving, it’s Zebo who’s going to France. Not sure he has anything to do with planting in Ulster.

Payne isn#t leaving he will be a coach next year

geoff999rugby wrote:Payne isn#t leaving he will be a coach next year

Is that injury related? He's only 32 and one year out from a RWC. You'd have thought he'd give it one more year.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Payne isn#t leaving he will be a coach next year

Is that injury related? He's only 32 and one year out from a RWC. You'd have thought he'd give it one more year.

Payne has been getting migraines since being on the Lions tour and they have never gotten to the bottom of why he's getting them. Playing on without the knowledge that it's actually safe to do so would be madness so we all kind of know it'll be announced at some stage that he's retiring and will be retained as our defence coach.

That's 11 southern players out and 2 in so far. I think there'll be more coming. Possibly 7 or 8 coming in in total, mainly to Connacht but the other 3 provinces having one or two.


There's not as much need for so many these days which is a good sign. It could spell danger for the southern hemisphere though because if there's not as much need for as many of their players, European teams will target quality over quantity. That means targeting their top players more often.

How many NIQs are Connacht allowed? Are they still getting a dispensation?

Payne - it is indeed injury related.

He is basically uninsurable.
His contract is up this summer and I fully expect him to be named Defense coach in the break
Ulster will sign at least 1 and possibly 2 SH players - whether they are Saffers or not remains to be seen.
Also I reckon it is 50/50 on Ah You getting a contract renewal
Also 50/50 on VdeMerwe being cut lose

geoff999rugby wrote:Payne - it is indeed injury related.

He is basically uninsurable.
His contract is up this summer

He would have been insured with the Lions so why wouldn't he (and Ulster) not claim and retire now?

I am guessing they have claimed.

The point I am making is Ulster cant insure him for next year.
I think he will retire but the announcement is on hold till further developments on the coaching set up are finalised

Southern Hemisphere players in and out of Pro14 so far. Cheetahs and Kings are naturally not included.

Benneton 0 in, 2 out
Cardiiff 0 in, 1 out
Connacht 2 in, 5 out
Dragons 3 in, 4 out
Edinburgh 3 in, 5 out
Glasgow 0 in, 0 out
Leinster 0 in, 2 out
Munster 1 in, 1 out
Ospreys 3 in, 4 out
Scarlets 5 in, 0 out
Ulster 0 in, 2 out
Zebre 1 in, 4 out


Italy 1 in, 6 out
Wales 11 in, 9 out
Ireland 3 in, 10 out
Scotland 3 in, 5 out

Pro14 TOTAL 18 in, 30 out
8 players signed directly from the SH
26 SH players leaving the league

Aviva Prem
24 in, 24 out
13 players signed directly from the SH
18 SH players leaving the league

Top14
27 in, 26 out
13 players signed directly from the SH
15 SH players leaving the league


I included the promoted teams ie Bristol instead of London Irish. It would be a bit more time consuming to go through the Bristol and LI squads but its just of a general estimate anyhow.

That's nearly a squad coming in from the SH.  I think there will be a few more but they don't want to announce it until after SR in case they don't make the squad for the world cup like Piatiu (spelt wrong)

Good to see Italy reducing if it means the standard doesn't drop.

Pete330v2 wrote:How many NIQs are Connacht allowed? Are they still getting a dispensation?

They’re not officially. They have 3 Australians 1 NIE and 2 NIQs and 2 NZs who are IQ. And 3 Eng who are IQ incl the new recruit for next season, Joe Maksymiw from Leicester, English-born but also Welsh and Irish qualified.

Thank you for the details Profitius. With the exception of Wales it looks like the pro 14 sides are relying more on home grown talent. I'd be interested to know if this is because there is enough young talent coming through their academies (I really hope so) or can they not afford to compete with the English and French sides for the players that they'd like to buy.

When it comes to Welsh teams I would have thought that the Scarlets would be the least in need of new players and the Dragons the most so these numbers surprised me.

Intotouch wrote:Thank you for the details Profitius. With the exception of Wales it looks like the pro 14 sides are relying more on home grown talent. I'd be interested to know if  this is because there is enough young talent coming through their academies (I really hope so)  or can they not afford to compete with the English and French sides for the players that they'd like to buy.

When it comes to Welsh teams I would have thought that the Scarlets would be the least in need of new players and the Dragons the most so these numbers surprised me.

The Pro14 teams has to produce our own talent most of the time. Whats interesting is looking at long term trends, seeing how many compared with previous years. The fewer the better.


One thing that could spell trouble for NZ is the French limiting the number of foreigners. That sounds like a good thing for NZ and southern hemisphere rugby but ironically it could result in the French going for quality over quantity and that means targeting All Blacks.


Scarlets are losing a few players so are looking to bolster their squad next season. The Dragons have signed a lot of players for next season including Richard Hibbard, Moriarty etc.

Here is the list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2018–19_Pro14_transfers

Top 14 (not counting transfers within T14)
25 In (incl 14 straight from SH teams)
30 out

Biggest names are kaino, Messam, Nanai-Wiliams and Ngatai...
Not as glamourous as in previous years.

Source
https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-14/2017-2018/tous-les-transferts-club-par-club_sto6763378/story.shtml