20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

First topic message reminder :

Edinburgh Squad

LH's: Schoeman, Dell, Marfo, Sutherland
Hookers: McInally, Ford, Fenton, Cherry
TH's: Nel, Berghan, McCallum, Ceccarelli
Second Row: Gilchrist, Toolis, McKenzie, Carmichael, Hunter-Hill
Back Row: Barclay, Hamilton, Crosbie; Watson, Ritchie; Bradbury, Mata, Miller, Nayalo

SH's: Pyrgos, Fowles, Kennedy, Shiel
FH's: Hickey, VDW, McLelland, Baggott
Centres: Scott, Socino, Bennett, Dean, Johnstone, G Taylor
Back 3: Fife, VDM, Hoyland, Brown, Graham; Kinghorn

Forward Total: 26
- Internationals: 16 (14 Scots, 1 Italian, 1 Fijian)
- NSQ: 4 (1 of whom is a project)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 7 (2 capped)
Backs Total: 20
- Internationals: 8 (Socino lone non-Scot)
- NSQ: 4 (2 projects)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 10 (2 capped)

Total: 46

Glasgow Squad

LH's: Bhatti, Allan, Kebble
Hookers: Brown, Turner, Stewart, Bryce
TH's: Fagerson, Nuka, Rae, Nicol
Second Row: Gray, Swinson, Cummings, McDonald, Brian, Peterson, Davidson
Back-Row: M Fagerson, Harley; Gibbins, Smith, Fusaro; Wilson, Ashe, Tameilau, Flockhart

SH's: Price, G Horne,Frisby, Mata, Baletto
FH's: Horne, Hastings, Jackson
Centres: Dunbar, H Jones, Johnson, Dunbar, Grigg, P Kelly
Back 3: Seymour, VDM, L Jones, Masaga, Tagive, Hughes, Beattie, Nairn; Hogg, Thomson

Forward Total: 27
- Internationals: 15 (12 Scots, 2 Americans, 1 Tongan)
- NSQ: 6 (2 projects)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 11 (4 capped, both projects)
Backs Total: 24
- Internationals: 14 (10 Scots, 1 Fijian, 1 Kiwi, 1 Canadian, 1 Aussie)
- NSQ: 4 (No projects if Thomson is already tied to SA)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 8 (1 capped)

Total: 51

Overall: 97 players
- Internationals: 53 (43 Scots)
- NSQ: 19 (5 projects)
- Under 25: 36 (9 capped)

I wonder if there'll be another French club that can take Hardie on? Would be good to see him get some game time leading up to the Autumn internationals so that he is in the window for selection should any injuries occur to Watson, Fusaro, Ritchie etc.

Quins were very interested in Hamish Watson last season so I am half expecting them to throw in for Hardie too.

Just watching Racing 92’s game and they were doing a little vignette on Finn Russel and the commentators called him Irish.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Just watching Racing 92’s game and they were doing a little vignette on Finn Russel and the commentators called him Irish.

Joe Schmidt would never pick such a maverick! 

Scoring pass twice for Zebo. Which means you’re probably right

So we finally got to see CHH and Farndale tonight. Farndale was fairly quiet but had one spectacular run from our 22 when he absolutely smoked Leinster out wide and made it deep into their half. He doesn't look overly comfortable at 15s yet (understandably) but if he can be put in space (a  big IF playing for Edinburgh) he could be absolutely deadly. He is a bit of a show pony though and there's not a good balance with our other show pony VDM on the other wing.

CHH is a huge lump and looks physically ready for pro rugby. He's very laboured however and needs to work more on his athleticism which every modern lock needs. Would be good to see more of him.

P.s. Fowles was absolutely guff again. Charlie shiel needs to be given a chance as Fowles is not the future.

Some good news.... Edinburgh’s planning application has been approved

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=P9LICIEWFON00

So Glasgow lose to the worst team in the league. Luvvies lose again and Titanic their way to the bottom of their conference.

I don't know which one upsets me more.

Ah hold on there, I do

Apparantly meatball scored two tries in the first 10 mins

TJ wrote:Apparantly meatball scored two tries in the first 10 mins

Duncy is actually having a bit of a renaissance down in Worcester. Seems to have nailed down the starting shirt and is playing well. You wonder id he might come back into the international squad as the third FH. Pete Horne is hardly making much of a case for it!

I had said for a couple of years he needed to go play for a smaller team out of the spotlight where he can be 1st choice and get some gametime and get out of the scottish rugby microscope

Always been a talent but injuries got him then his head went IMO

They're currently pumping Leicester but there's a long way to go. He's missed a few kicks!

EWT Spoons wrote:Some good news.... Edinburgh’s planning application has been approved

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=P9LICIEWFON00

Good news

Duncy leads Worcester to their first win of the season, away to the Tigers with a 22 point hall.

Good to see it is working well for him down there, even if it is likely to become a bit of a dogfight for them to stay up. He is likely to become a much better player for the experience of going down there, he has got as much game time already as he did in the whole of last season!

Big win for Worcester although they almost let a 26 point lead slide! Highlights will be on channel 5 tomorrow night - worth a watch

So it’s certainly not been the best of starts for Edinburgh – losing 3 out of 4, bottom of the conference and with the worst points for in the league. Saying that, I don’t think it’s panic stations yet. Given that our opening 4 fixtures included Ospreys, Ulster and Leinster away it’s not a disgrace to have lost those game, although ideally we could have done with winning one of them to keep in the top 3 come the end of the season (and we really should have won one of them if not for a dodgy restart and more dodgy penalty call).

With Treviso and Kings coming up next at home we should be winning the next two going into the Champions Cup, which would leave us won 3 lost 3 and probably respectable mid-table, which at least gives us something to build on. What I would say is we desperately need to get a 4 try BP in one of those games – they are our Achilles heel and we need to show we can score some tries. Treviso will be no pushoevers so I suspect the Kings (who don’t travel well) will be our best chance of that. If we can get 9 points out of our next two games we’ll be on 15 out of a possible 30 and most likely leapfrog several teams into 4th place.

If we do lose one of the next two games however then we really are in trouble, and our chances of a top 3 finish will look bleak indeed.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Not sure who mentioned Zach Mercer recently, but big Jim has done a good honest interview with him


https://www.rugbypass.com/news/big-jims-big-interview-with-zach-mercer

I suppose there are always two sides to any story, but the answer regarding why Mercer chose England over Scotland doesnt exactly make for good reading.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:Some good news.... Edinburgh’s planning application has been approved

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=P9LICIEWFON00

Good news

How did you find that out Mr Spoons? Did you Google 'big erection in Edinburgh' again?

George Carlin wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:Some good news.... Edinburgh’s planning application has been approved

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=P9LICIEWFON00

Good news

How did you find that out Mr Spoons? Did you Google 'big erection in Edinburgh' again?

Don't need to google that mate, just need to look down*

*This might not be true

For my sins, I've been added to a Edinburgh supporters facebook group and someone posted it there.

Finn Russell continues his fine form with Racing, a few assists to his name against Castres. He seems to have developed a great relationship with Zebo already (on and off the pitch!). Now of course there is a good chance he missed kicks to touch and threw a few interceptions, but the highlights reel looks good!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaKiO1MY6-Q

They seem to be looking after him too - I don't think he's played 80 minutes yet, and he was even rested last weekend. Long may it continue!

EWT Spoons wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:Some good news.... Edinburgh’s planning application has been approved

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=P9LICIEWFON00

Good news

How did you find that out Mr Spoons? Did you Google 'big erection in Edinburgh' again?

Don't need to google that mate, just need to look down*

*This might not be true

For my sins, I've been added to a Edinburgh supporters facebook group and someone posted it there.

So Mr Spoons, you're sitting on top of a "big erection in Edinburgh" and someone has punished you by posting a photo on Facebook (which is in the internet).

You Luvvies certainly know how to live it up.

jimbopip wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:Some good news.... Edinburgh’s planning application has been approved

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=P9LICIEWFON00

Good news

How did you find that out Mr Spoons? Did you Google 'big erection in Edinburgh' again?

Don't need to google that mate, just need to look down*

*This might not be true

For my sins, I've been added to a Edinburgh supporters facebook group and someone posted it there.

So Mr Spoons, you're sitting on top of a "big erection in Edinburgh" and someone has punished you by posting a photo on Facebook (which is in the internet).

You Luvvies certainly know how to live it up.

We can't all rely on our team getting horsed by the worst team in the league, got to fill the hours somehow.

Ah. I see what you did there. The Kings were the worst team in the league last season.


According to the table the worst team in the league, at the moment, is... Luvvies Always Luvvies .


Which is quite an achievement in a league which contains the Dragons.

nicely played

Wee duncy could easily get into the Scotland squad as a 10. P Horne is stuggling big time and as he's a gash a 12 as he is a 10 there's really no reason to waste a squad space on him.

I think you guys are too harsh on Horne. This weekend given tyhe poor service from the 9 its hard to shine at 10 However an in form Meatball would be an assett to the squad no doubt at all

I had a look at the stats for the racing game. russell made 15 tackles missing 4 so Castre clearly were attacking him and he did OK. Good with the boot as well. Kicked his goals

Sorry but each time I see Horne at 10 he's found wanting. He misses penalties to touch to often. He is defensively weak. He gets isolated and turned over too often.

He's simply not a international class player

Just watched wee duncy on the prem highlights. His two tries were take well but his pass for their 3rd and his run for their 4th were simply outstanding. If it were Russell for us or cipriani for the auld enemy doing that then the press would be exploding in their pants with praise

Weir has had some horrendous games for us in the past but if he can get his form up playing in the prem then it will at least give us another option.

The headlines I saw were all praising Weir.
"Duncan Weir rampant as Worcester undo Leicester’s comeback at the last " in the Grauniad.

Duncy just needs to keep on doing what he is doing and he will come back into play.

He would only be third choice I guess (having given up on Pete Horne as an option), behind Russell and Hastings, but that would only be one injury away from the match day squad.

What is beyond dispute is that moving has breathed new life into him as has the chance of regular game time and being the first choice FH. Something that he has not had for quite a few years.

Well done Duncy, long may it continue.

Tiger Tattie - short memories? couple of years ago Finn got injured early on and hHorne took over at 10 and did very well. I agreee he is not a world class player but he is not as bad as some on here make out.

Horne has had a bad start to the season, not just the Kings game. He looks shot of confidence for some reason. You certainly can't blame bad service from his 9 for some of the shockers against the King's. 

He has had the odd decent performance at 10 for Scotland, but mainly average with a few shockers thrown in there (and not just at 10). He would very much an in case of emergency option and with Hastings looking the real deal his place is definitely in jeopardy. TJ you can't seriously claim one decent performance from 2 years ago as justification that he's a player that can be relied upon for Scotland!

I don’t rate Horne particularly, but what he has working massively in his favour, is every bugger who can play in the centre for Scotland is getting injured or also out of form. So he’ll likely be in the squad regardless, so may well take the 3rd FH spot by default.

I think the Weir thing is getting a bit ahead of ourselves. Weir had one good game for Scotland u20s and dined out on that for years. If he can back up the game against Leicester with another few decent performances then we could possibly start considering him as an option again, but for now he has to 3d choice at best.

EWT Spoons wrote:I don’t rate Horne particularly, but what he has working massively in his favour, is every bugger who can play in the centre for Scotland is getting injured or also out of form.  So he’ll likely be in the squad regardless, so may well take the 3rd FH spot by default.

I think the Weir thing is getting a bit ahead of ourselves.  Weir had one good game for Scotland u20s and dined out on that for years.  If he can back up the game against Leicester with another few decent performances then we could possibly start considering him as an option again, but for now he has to 3d choice at best.

What a miserable comment.

True though

I honestly don't think I'm helping by asking this but... starter for 10:

Q: The last time Edinburgh provided a quality fly-half to the Scotland squad...

a) Tony Blair was prime minister
b) Saddam Hussein was ruler of Iraq
c) Westlife were at No. 1 with 'Queen of My Heart'
d) I was majorly crushing on Seven of Nine
e) All of the above

To be fair, since Gregor Townsend the only genuine international class 10 we have had is Finn Russell, and probably Dan Parks (although that's only because we played a limited game that suited him, and he still had a few howlers). Anyone else has been totally average at best, fairly incompetent at worse.

We've not exactly been awash with great 10s in the modern professional era!

Also, I don't think you can criticise Edinburgh's lack of 10 development when our front rowers have been holding up the Scotland scrum for years

yeah I don't think either side has anything to brag about on the 10 front.

I would possibly suggest Dan Parks wasn't really an international class 10, as you say we heavily focused our game plan to accommodate him. he did a job and doesn't deserve a lot of the stick he gets, but was pretty average.

I'm not even suggesting 'international class' as being the necessary requirement - being able to grubber to the corner, throw a miss-pass and tie their own laces is normally enough for me.

Gordon Ross is the last Edinburgh fly-half to do that, and I'm deliberately not counting Phil 'Good' Godman. Without wishing to be brutal, in that time Glasgow have produced Parksy, Jacko, Dunky, Horne-dog and Finn.

I presume that the headlines on the Worcester fan pages read something like:

Duncan Weir: Not Quite As Large A Bag Of Kack As First Feared

Good news for Edinburgh - looks like Mata will be back this weekend. Hopefully means the first outing of the season of the

6 Bradbury
7 Watson
8 Mata

Back row

Usual call for match threads!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good news for Edinburgh - looks like Mata will be back this weekend.  Hopefully means the first outing of the season of the

6 Bradbury
7 Watson
8 Mata

Back row

Usual call for match threads!

Edinburgh one:

https://www.606v2.com/t67991-edinburgh-vs-benetton-rugby-pro-14-fri-28-09#3737180

Ross Ford in the papers this morning talking about his desire to play in a 4th world cup. He's certainly in the best shape of his life and having lost a bit of weight should be more mobile and  improve his fitness. He appears to have even learnt how to hook - he was hooking against Leinster! Chinhook no more.

The reality is he probably has a good chance - the pecking order just now is probably

McInally
Brown
Ford/Turner
Everyone else

There's a big drop off after our top 4 - currently there's no one taking that 5th spot.

So on the basis of 3 hookers travelling all it will take is an injury to the other 3 and he's in there, or for him to have a good season for Edinburgh that sees him there on his own merit.

Ford will also likely benefit from it not just being the hooker’s role to hook. Although I don’t know that he’s played that much since that rule was introduced (other than the couple of times this season), and obviously he was hooking against Leinster which possibly suggests that during his time injured he actually bothered to work out how to lift his leg and move a ball back

As you say he’s dropped some weight, which is likely from him having a preseason for the first time in years.

In terms of 3rd choice hooker at the WC, he’s probably got a good chance of going along, but I think a lot will depend on how Fenton gets on at Edinburgh this season. He’s currently injured and I suspect 3rd choice (behind Rambo & Ford) but if he has a strong season and can push up the pecking order then there is a good chance he could go ahead of Ford.

Turner of course could also have a great season and nail down the 2nd/3rd slot in the squad, as Brown does have a bit of history with injuries, which could push everyone else down the pecking order (except Rambo).

I guess what I am saying is, there is a lot of rugby to be played before the WC .

Turner did not do his case much good last Saturday.

A good player but still a bit prone to brain farts to be playing much international rugby. Hopefully he can iron that out of his game.

I didn't want to say that as it felt like I was having a dig at Glasgow players, but I don't really rate Turner (currently). He's decent in the loose but his work in the scrum/lineouts isn't great, and as you say prone to the odd mistake.

He's not that young (for a pro athlete, 25) but to be fair, Rambo wasn't much of a hooker (or one at all) until last season, so there is still time for Tuner to improve and iron out the weaknesses in his game. As things stand I wouldn't take him to the WC, but there is still a lot of rugby (pro team) to be played and injuries could dictate his inclusion.

I quite like Turner – he offers a point of difference from our other hooking options with his athleticism and skill. He made a great impact on the summer tour with some brilliant carries. Because he’s not big he knows he has to hit gaps and he does it very well.

As has been pointed out though he does make mistakes and I’m not convinced he’s every going to be powerful enough for international scrums. He’s the perfect kind of player to come off the bench against the likes of Russia and Japan in the WC – teams that aren’t so powerful but his athleticism would be an asset.

As you say Spoons there is a lot of rugby to come between now and the WC – if we’re able to have 3 of those top 4 in the squad then I’ll be pretty happy with our hooking options.

I forgot about Fenton – he looked promising last season and it’s a shame he’s injured just now (any idea for how long?). Dave Cherry is very much just squad filler so I hope Fenton gets good gametime in the AIs (if he’s fit). Him and Malcolm are probably our 5th and 6th choice just now so we’re not exactly full of depth as we go lower down the order.

In Turner favour, he may be 25 but does not have many miles on the clock as a pro. He should have had more opportunities at Edinburgh while there but due to the crazy selections of the time, just languished.
That seems to have left a mark on him as he always seems to be trying to hard to impress. If he would just calm down a bit and concentrate on his core role he would be a better player. He definitely has the athleticism and skills to be a good player but needs to believe in himself and trust himself a bit more.

I couldn't understand why Rennie took Peterson and Turner off at the weekend, from what I was watching they were two of the players having an impact. I though Frisby and Fusaro were far more obvious contenders to come off.

Big fan of Turner, he is still learning and will make the odd mistake but you don't see many finished articles under 25 at hooker. Dynamic in the loose with good skills and a nasty streak in defence.