Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[McLaren]

First topic message reminder :

Kwini

I reckon Harry has scored a double eagle.

She's a weird looking bird, more a bogey I'd say.

Kwini, you have very high standards. I seem to remember you thought Lexi was a bit of a minger.

[super_realist]

Worth remembering that Portugal have always played AS A TEAM and have a tournament mentality, something England rarely do, and haven't had in 30 years.
England got humiliated by an island in the North Atlantic with a population of 300,000.
There's no comparison.

I actually see Iceland as a team which are more likely to achieve because they play to the sum of their parts.

[Diggers]

I'm not a betting man but have a few pound go's for the World Cup. Quite like the winner and top scorer double up. Brazil and Lukaku 100-1. He could get 5 or 6 in the group stages (hopefully not all against us).

[Diggers]

Worth remembering that Portugal have always played AS A TEAM and have a tournament mentality, something England rarely do, and haven't had in 30 years.
England got humiliated by an island in the North Atlantic with a population of 300,000.
There's no comparison.

I actually see Iceland as a team which are more likely to achieve because they play to the sum of their parts.

Actually their problem has been not playing as a team in the past and relying on individuals , they didn't even do it well at the Euros. They were as crap as were in a few games (including against Iceland). They got a great draw and got a bit lucky at times. It happens.
Ive always thought your idea of picking players as a team is largely a crock. Every single squad is picked from the best players the coaches consider they have, every one of them from Iceland to Brazil.Always have been, always will be.

[super_realist]

Really, all the best players are picked? Is that right?  Is Sane not good enough for Germany?

How effective were England when they persisted in trying to play Lampard and Gerrard together? How well did that work? Why not put in players who work better together? There was really no effort to even try to fix that.

How good do all the star name Yanks play in the Ryder Cup? Granted, only 1/3rd is "picked" but simply having the big names in there doesn't guarantee you'll do well. Many of the big name players are outperformed by lesser known names. For example Emile Heskey and Peter Crouch had far better consistency than bigger names in the EPL for England.

[Diggers]

Sane was a marginal pick, they haven't replaced him with a crap player. That said one talking point out of a strong squad, he'd played their full final warm up and wasn't great. I'd take him but it's hardly earth shattering. Yes, Lampard and Gerrard didn't work, they admit that down to egos more than anything and it's not just an English problem, all teams take their best players and it doesn't always work out. They still take them.
Heskey and Crouch both played for big sides like Liverpool and Spurs, they weren't plucked from lower leagues and anyway according to you every single player whose played for England isn't a 6 out of 10, so these now supposedly are?

[pedro]

And Benzema, Lacazette and Gameiro were not “good enough” for France?

[Diggers]

That French squad is absolutely stacked with talent. It's a case of take your pick, whether it comes off who knows. I'm not that big a Benzemar fan myself and they see him as the past, Lacazette looks great but so do the forwards they are taking. Not taking the likes of Sane and Lacazette in stacked squads is hardly the same as England not taking Lampard and Gerrard at their peak. Did you want them to take Kevin Nolan instead?

[pedro]

As I understand it the head of the Spanish FA is a recent appointment. Seems to me that Real have effectively called his bluff that he wouldn’t sack Lopetegui this close to the tournament. Poaching a manager days before a tournament is the ultimate power move so if Lopetegui stayed it’s effectively saying Real are bigger than the Spanish FA. With the political implications I don’t think they had any option but to sack him.

My point is that the FA did have a choice - but they let their egos get in the way, as you rightly say. Remember, the team is not there for the FA, it’s the other way around. They won the battle but lost the war.

[Diggers]

They did have a choice, I'd say they made the right one personally.

[super_realist]

Sane was a marginal pick, they haven't replaced him with a crap player. That said one talking point out of a strong squad, he'd played their full final warm up and wasn't great. I'd take him but it's hardly earth shattering. Yes,  Lampard and Gerrard didn't work, they admit that down to egos more than anything and it's not just an English problem, all teams take their best players and it doesn't always work out. They still take them.
Heskey and Crouch both played for big sides like Liverpool and Spurs, they weren't plucked from lower leagues and anyway according to you every single player whose played for England isn't a 6 out of 10, so these now supposedly are?

Heskey and Crouch weren't quite the Shearer/Owen combination though which would have been the "top names"

I'm not saying they were amazing for England, but statistically they performed better than most England strikers on a goals per minute basis and probably should have played more due to that.

It is true though that there isn't a single England player who consistently replicates his club form at International level which is England's most glaring issue. The nearest I can think of in the current squad is Rashford and it's rare that he plays 90 minutes.

[navyblueshorts]

Worth remembering that Portugal have always played AS A TEAM and have a tournament mentality, something England rarely do, and haven't had in 30 years.
England got humiliated by an island in the North Atlantic with a population of 300,000.
There's no comparison.

I actually see Iceland as a team which are more likely to achieve because they play to the sum of their parts.

Actually their problem has been not playing as a team in the past and relying on individuals , they didn't even do it well at the Euros. They were as crap as were in a few games (including against Iceland). They got a great draw and got a bit lucky at times. It happens.
Ive always thought your idea of picking players as a team is largely a crock. Every single squad is picked from the best players the coaches consider they have, every one of them from Iceland to Brazil.Always have been, always will be.

Not exactly true is it? Pretty sure Jack Charlton was amazed to be told by Ramsey that he was there because it gave England the best team, not because JC was the best player he could have picked. Take your point though.

[Be_the_ball]

Worth remembering that Portugal have always played AS A TEAM and have a tournament mentality, something England rarely do, and haven't had in 30 years.
England got humiliated by an island in the North Atlantic with a population of 300,000.
There's no comparison.

I actually see Iceland as a team which are more likely to achieve because they play to the sum of their parts.

Actually their problem has been not playing as a team in the past and relying on individuals , they didn't even do it well at the Euros. They were as crap as were in a few games (including against Iceland). They got a great draw and got a bit lucky at times. It happens.
Ive always thought your idea of picking players as a team is largely a crock. Every single squad is picked from the best players the coaches consider they have, every one of them from Iceland to Brazil.Always have been, always will be.

Not exactly true is it? Pretty sure Jack Charlton was amazed to be told by Ramsey that he was there because it gave England the best team, not because JC was the best player he could have picked. Take your point though.

When England are at tournaments, all the players and Mgt are afraid of who is going to be made the scapegoat by the media, this has a horrendous effect on performance and ends up with the team performing below the sum of their parts instead of above. The pressure mounts and the media then try dictate who plays, where they play and what system, the management team are placed under enormous pressure. It will take a strong manager to ignore that, and players that can somehow not be afraid of it. With young players they may be able to do that.

The media had already started victimising a player before the plane has even taken off!?!?

I can guarantee they already have the headlines lined up, they're laughing their ass off at the mayhem they are about to create. England doing well is the last thing they want.

[McLaren]

Henderson, Ali, Lingard is a pretty s**t midfield isn't it?

[raycastleunited]

Give me a big example of a big team changing plan mid game. It doesn't happen, complete myth.  

You are joking right? Teams very frequently make substitutions to alter their tactics.

You want a big example or a big team... what about Germany using Klose up front and then bringing on Bierhoff. Klose was all about pace and quick touches, Bierhoff was a big target man. Allowed Germany to knock long balls into the box, which they frequently did when needed. Plenty of times I've seen Germany play a high pressing game, and then vary it to sit back and play deep.

All of those are easily done without any massive formation change. You can play a 3 5 2 in lots off different ways depending on personnel and the state of a game. Whether you end up playing deep usually comes down to being pressed by another team (England often look hemmed at the back in bad games). If you ship a goal early and a team sits deep then you won't need as much of a press. That's when you need Alli playing between the lines.

Exactly. It's called having a plan B. It's what most teams have. So Germany used to start with Klose and then go to Plan B(ierhoff). But you seem to think teams don't have different options, which is patently rubbish.

Anyway, I remember when Owen scored his wonder goal against Argentina in 98, when he ran at the Argentina defence they were already in position in front of the 18 yard line. It was his skill which earned the goal and not the counter. I'd like to see England use Rashford (and Sterling) in that way because we get a different style of threat from Kane.

[Diggers]

You're talking about changing players, that's hardly dramatically changing the same set up. England and every single team make substitutions to bring on players to change a game. It's hardly rocket science or a Plan B, it's called using your subs.

[Diggers]

Henderson, Ali, Lingard is a pretty s**t midfield isn't it?

How is Alli crap? Look at what he's done over a few years, if Sane is some huge shock for not going then Alli must be get higher rated, his career stats are far better. Henderson managed the get to a champions league final, does that make him crap?

[raycastleunited]

Worth remembering Portugal won the Euros with their weakest team for years. Their best playing performance was beating Wales (which even England did) and they only drew with Iceland and I think Austria . PBacks to the wall against a French side that looked overwhelmed by the occasion.
Not as big a shock as Leicester but in terms of squad strength I wouldn't have had them as a really top team.  

I agree with this assessment.

I think the Portugal win had little to do with star quality but was down to the mistakes they didn't make. Pundits often talk about that moment of magic when a world class player does something special to unlock a defence. Portugal didn't really do any of that at Euro 2016, they just didn't make any defensive mistakes and drew their way to the final.

Watching England, you always feel like there's a mistake waiting to happen or in particular a goal keeping error. Usually it's giving the ball away cheaply or failing to track a run. However, England are renowned for having terrible keepers and we've lived up to the stereo type for the last 20 years.

[McLaren]

You are right they all had pretty good seasons with their clubs this season, and maybe they are not Poopie but Englands midfield is where they are weak compared to the top teams.  I actually think their defenders are good and Kane, Sterling, rashford and vardy are a pretty decent set of attackers.

[Diggers]

Midfield is the weaker area, but I think Alli will have a big tournament, he looks like he's running into form. I like Lingard as well, always good to have an extra goal threat. The idea of the 3 5 2 is to strengthen the midfield and get the wing backs involved as a threat, I think that's why he's so keen on the system.

[raycastleunited]

You are right they all had pretty good seasons with their clubs this season, and maybe they are not Poopie but Englands midfield is where they are weak compared to the top teams.  I actually think their defenders are good and Kane, Sterling, rashford and vardy are a pretty decent set of attackers.

Well exactly. That's why England is playing a back five with an extra centre half instead of midfielder.

[Diggers]

You are right they all had pretty good seasons with their clubs this season, and maybe they are not Poopie but Englands midfield is where they are weak compared to the top teams.  I actually think their defenders are good and Kane, Sterling, rashford and vardy are a pretty decent set of attackers.

Well exactly. That's why England is playing a back five with an extra centre half instead of midfielder.

That's the thing with a formation, is it a 5 at the back? I'd say it's a 3 with wing backs operating as wingers most of the time and the central midfielders aren't outnumbered and can press, that' why they want full backs who can cross and want centre backs with pace who are good on the ball, so Walker comes in. But at times it may well play like a 5, at time it will look like a 4 if Stones or Maquire (hope he plays) steps up. Should mean we get a fair bit of possession but I still think we'll always look to use it fairly quickly. Problem will be whether we have the legs for 90 minutes. We shall see.

[raycastleunited]

When Brazil had Cafu and Roberto Carlos in the team, they were described as full backs and part of the back 4 when of course we all remember them bombing forward as wingers.

So that's why I call it a back 5... even if they are potentially the most important attacking outlets for England.

[Diggers]

Yeah, I guess it comes down to whether you feel you are depleting the midfield or strengthening it, I think with England it's the latter (or at least that's the hope) because it's not our strength and we can be starved of the ball, or have been in the past. Be interesting to see how that pans out against a team with a midfield like Belgium, arguably the best midfield there.

[Be_the_ball]

Meh, let's enjoy the footie

[Diggers]

Cracking match tonight. Howlers and worldies. What a career Ronaldo has had, 53 hat-tricks, 84 international goals, unreal. Considering the week they've had plenty of spirit from Spain and Isco was class. The tournament has started!

[beninho]

Ronnie is some player. Spain, still play lovely football, but sone their players seem to have been around for years, pique, busquets, ramos, iniesta are all greats of football for what they have achieved. I don't think they will win it this time.

[kwinigolfer]

Finnbogason is a fantastic name - not keen on him calling himself Alfred though, Alfie Finnbogason has just a terrific ring to it!

[Diggers]

Argentina do not look a happy bunch, can't see them going too far, especially when their back line actually gets pressed.

[Diggers]

Flying start again for England against the Boks. Certainly playing some expansive rugby now, very unenglish really.
This would set up a nice finish and I really don't like South Africa very much (rarely met one I liked much).
All kicking off now, just as a good test should.

[Roller_Coaster]

Neymar is a whiny, divey, rolley round clutching unsore parts of his anatomy untouched by opponents, ball greedy, dead end avenue running into poopie for brains. This morning I am mostly liking cuckoo clocks, cheese, overly secret banking laws, square flags and (somewhat ironically given the nature of the post) neutrality.

Although Shaquiri is a tubby, lazy, self centred bag of bollox who should be dropped for crimes against his team mates (particularly the guy in the back line playing just behind him).

[I'm never wrong]

Get off the fence Roller

[McLaren]

Despite sacking their manager Spain looking the best of the top teams so far.

[I'm never wrong]

We haven’t seen England yet Mac. Could surprise us all.

[wiretapper]

I read an interesting point this morning that since moving from Barca to PSG when playing for Brazil, Neymar takes more time on the ball and takes more touches each time he receives it.

And it was put down to PSG being more indulgent with him, letting him have more time on the ball where at Barca he was instructed to move the ball forward quicker.

It may just be a bit of synchronicity but interesting none the less.

[Roller_Coaster]

Not surprised wire, I think he may have lost sight of the fact that the best players in the world (ie Ronaldo and Messi) are partly so because they do put the team first and the team success amplifies how good they are/look. He might just be a little too believing of his price tag and simultaneously be too disparaging of his domestic opponents in France.

[McLaren]

Would Firmino help the team gel better than a half fit and more selfish than usual Neymar?

[McLaren]

I am going to get the usual criticisms for this comment but some of the punditry from ex players so far has been terrible. Drogba and Eva being the worst. Drogba has no idea what is happening and Evra has so far ranged from sexist to generally being an uteer bell. Larsson sadly pretty bad as well. Somehow he thought Costa Rica were playing better than Serbia. And here comes the bit where I get ripped apart, Alex Scott the best analyst so far  

I guess having to cover so many games means they have had to scrape the barrel to get enough cover, but even so is there no selection criteria

[McLaren]

Must be seriously gutting for Nainggolan to watch from home Felleni take a starting position in his place.

Does martinez stand between Belgium and a decent run at the WC? As Spain showed it isn't too late to sack the manager.

[wiretapper]

Fellaini? Not on the pitch Mac

[McLaren]

Correct. Watching on my phone while working. I just saw the big hair and assumed Felleni.

[wiretapper]

You could change Fellaini for Witsel and make the same point. Nainggolan has his issues but is a much better player than both.

However Martinez clearly doesn't get on with him and with Nainggolan playing just off Dzeko for Roma this season - a position Martinez's 3-4-3 doesn't really accommodate - he had another excuse not to pick him.

[pedro]

We haven’t seen England yet Mac. Could surprise us all.

Yes, they’re most likely worse than we think.

[McLaren]

We haven’t seen England yet Mac. Could surprise us all.

Yes, they’re most likely worse than we think.

Belgium hardly that impressive so far.

[McLaren]

We haven’t seen England yet Mac. Could surprise us all.

Yes, they’re most likely worse than we think.

Belgium hardly that impressive so far.

Getting better.

[pedro]

Why is Gareth Southgate dressed like someone working at a casino?
Would you put it all on red?

[Diggers]

Job done, 3 points on the board. Far more positives than negatives. If anything probably showed where we are, improving, creating a system, but not enough quality in every position yet. Thought Trippier was superb. Maquire causing havoc...at both ends! Kane doing what Kane does.
Ref very poor for me.

[pedro]

World champions.

[NedB-H]

I thought Southgate looked like he’d sunk a couple of pints since his best man’s speech and was about to make his way on to the reception dancefloor.

Mac what are your thoughts on Jenas as a pundit? Not watched many games so far this tournament but I’m a big fan of his normally.
Often feel like the “big name” overseas pundits may well be very knowledgeable but lack the command of English to do themselves justice. Desailly used to be terrible for it. Didi Hamann probably the best I can remember.

[Diggers]

I like Hoddle as a pundit, really knows his stuff. Jenas was OK, I got a bit bored with the constant call for quick ball when there absolutely no space to play it into to.

[McLaren]

Quite like jeans, seems to get a bit more into the tactics instead of just rolling out the stereotypes like so many of the bigger names do. 

England looking no worse than most of the better teams so far, but will they be able to improve like we know Germany, Brazil, Argentina etc will?

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