Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

by McLaren Wed 23 May - 13:29

First topic message reminder :

kwinigolfer wrote:
McLaren wrote:Kwini

I reckon Harry has scored a double eagle.

She's a weird looking bird, more a bogey I'd say.

Kwini, you have very high standards. I seem to remember you thought Lexi was a bit of a minger.

by McLaren Thu 5 Jul - 13:54

Supe

Not sue ho much Man Utd you watched this season but Lindelof is not a great player.

Navy

Thanks for alerting me about football being a team game, I had totally missed that up to this point.

by Diggers Thu 5 Jul - 14:19

super_realist wrote:You keep saying that Diggers, but pretty much every team who has gone out, Argentina, Germany, Spain, Portugal etc can say the same about the teams they have gone out to. They'd all think their players are better.

England show time and again that regardless of how good they are on "paper" they struggle against all opposition in tournament football when it comes to knockout football. Colombia was their FIRST knockout win since 2006 for goodness sake.

You might well not put any of their players in your team, but that's not because they aren't good, it's because you likely don't know anything about their players and we don't see much of Swedish football in our media, which is natural. You aren't Swedish, so why would you know? Ignorance doesn't mean they don't have good players. Forsberg is decent, and Lindelöf is very good too.

It's not a case of which of their players would get in your team, it's about, and always has been about how well you play as a team, and Sweden are incredibly effective, albeit boring, even if they have no big names. Did you not see how well they qualified in a tough group with Netherlands and France? They won their group in Russia too.
Russia have got to the QF with no standout players, it's not the be all and end all and if you use that rationale for deciding who will win or not, then it's no surprise that England always underestimate opposition and have this preposterous expectation and hilarious opinion of how good they are or how much better than other teams they are, when they demonstrably aren't.

Do you not think Italy thought they were better on paper than Sweden? Yet, they lost in the play off.
England might well have a couple of better players, but so what? What difference did that make every time England have failed against "lesser" opposition in tournaments in the last 30 years?

I think England might well sneak it but Sweden are good and it wouldn't be a surprise at all if Sweden won.

If you have two teams playing well it's common sense that the team with the better players should win. No-one is underestimating Sweden, I doubt Italy did. You constantly claim these things based on nothing. Sometimes the lesser team wins, usually the team with the better players wins, that's why France or Brazil will probably win the world cup.
What everyone I know is saying is exactly what you did at the end of the quote.

by super_realist Fri 6 Jul - 7:49

McLaren wrote:Supe

Not sue ho much Man Utd you watched this season but Lindelof is not a great player.

Navy

Thanks for alerting me about football being a team game, I had totally missed that up to this point.

Again Mac, you're not reading properly. I said he was decent.

Every time the Ryder Cup comes around we always hear how much better the American players are, what usually happens? Europe, the lesser players have won 8 of the last 10.

Don't forget that last time England played Sweden, they got beaten 4-2. Of course it was only a friendly, but goes to show that they aren't a push over

Diggers, I can't remember who said it here, but someone said they should beat Sweden comfortably, and that they aren't worried about Sweden, well given the poor record against Sweden, they should be. That sort of arrogance is one of the major failings of England when people think they are better than they are. So while you might be grounded and realistic, others increasingly are not. You can't turn on the radio without hearing mad hysteria and people getting well ahead of themselves.

by Diggers Fri 6 Jul - 9:04

What? One person on here says we should beat Engand comfortably...so of course that kind of arrogance (from one persons opinion) is a major failing. Jesus Christ, surely you can do better than that.
It's amazing how friendlies suddenly count. The time before the friendly we beat them...in an actual tournament. They also haven't been great for the past 6 years by the way, far from it. It's not as if this Sweden team has been storming through world and euro groups. They come here in form, so do we. We have the better players, that's a simple fact. We would be bookies favourite in any country, not just here. A small favorite, but a favourite nonetheless.
And it's not golf (no idea where this comparison comes in), it's actually a proper team game where having the best players on the pitch at the same time playing together is important.

by westisbest Fri 6 Jul - 9:14

I said I think England will beat Sweden comfortably.

I also said if you care to read my whole reply as you’ve just pointed out to Mac to do, I said it wouldn’t surprise me if Sweden came out of the blocks fast and won.

I can’t really be arrogant though, as I’m not an England fan.

I think the four quarters will be good games.

by Diggers Fri 6 Jul - 10:10

Two people in the staff room said England had no chance tomorrow. It's that kind of lack of self belief that has caused 52 years of pain.
If you look at the player abilities, Scandinavian players who are any good are scouted and picked up. Lindelof I think will be a great player, but right now he's at the back of a long queue of defenders, mainly of them English. He's not had a good season.
In general terms, the Premier League is won by the team that spends the most money per player. There is a reason for that. This is cup football so you have more chance of a upsets, doesn't alter who the better players are, players who show they are better players by having played more big league games, won trophies that matter, scored goals and made assists in a proper league.
Southgate once again has said exactly the right thing, he won't underestimate them, but he should not overestimate them either. If we stick to our game plan we should win.

by Davie Fri 6 Jul - 10:54

super_realist wrote:
Diggers, I can't remember who said it here, but someone said they should beat Sweden comfortably, and that they aren't worried about Sweden, well given the poor record against Sweden, they should be. That sort of arrogance is one of the major failings of England when people think they are better than they are. So while you might be grounded and realistic, others increasingly are not. You can't turn on the radio without hearing mad hysteria and people getting well ahead of themselves.

Last time I checked, it wasn't 606v2 posters, media, radio, Tv and Newspaper commentators, the guy in the pub or people stood around the coffee machine at work, who are actually playing tomorrow. Whether you agree or not that people are getting ahead of themselves or being arrogant or just overly optimistic, IT DOESN'T MATTER. I can guarantee that Gareth and the boys will NOT be taking Sweden or anyone else for granted. They may lose; I hope not but it could happen. However if they DO lose it will not be down to arrogance or over confidence. It will be because Sweden played better as a team.

The fans *may* think they are better than they really are. Won't make one iota of difference to the result come Saturday tea-time

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 6 Jul - 12:29

McLaren wrote:Navy

Thanks for alerting me about football being a team game, I had totally missed that up to this point.

Clearly. I'm here to help, anytime you have a brain fart

.

by McLaren Fri 6 Jul - 12:42

Navy

Surely you don't have enough time in your day to do that job thoroughly. Wink

by Diggers Fri 6 Jul - 15:01

OK, so prediction time for the quarters.
France - Uruguay 2 - 1
Brazil - Belgium 2 - 2 Brazil through on penalties
England - Sweden 3 - 1
Croatia - Russia 1 - 1 Croatia through on penalties

by Diggers Fri 6 Jul - 21:04

Well, well, well. The twists and turns continue. Proper game that, barctge Neymar diving that ironically probably cost them a deserved penalty.

by I'm never wrong Fri 6 Jul - 21:10

As Gary Lineker says it is now the European Championship

by Diggers Fri 6 Jul - 21:46

As we play tomorrow we can say we are now down to the last 6! I like the sound of that.

by Be_the_ball Fri 6 Jul - 22:32

I'll erm, just leave this here Run

http://connachttribune.ie/harry-kane-hes-one-of-our-own-909/

by beninho Sat 7 Jul - 12:12

Im starting to get nervous already. Will we win? I bloody hope so, but I never have confidence in England.

Belgium rolling brazil was unexpected thougj not unsurprising. I would expect france to win it all though.

So, if, big if, England make the final, does that put the nail in the coffin of anyone listening to super realist football views. Hodgson being crap and palace bound to go down as they are one of the worst prem teams ever, Liverpool all living in the past then making the champs league final followed by years of England are rubbish and will never get anywhere!

by Be_the_ball Sat 7 Jul - 16:33

Where will the Pickford statue be located? Another great performance.

by westisbest Sat 7 Jul - 16:49

Pretty comfortable in the end as I thought it would be.

Pickford making few good saves though.

by kwinigolfer Sat 7 Jul - 16:53

Poor game.
Job done.
Must do better.
SF not bad though!

by Diggers Sat 7 Jul - 16:55

Better player triumph, as usually happens in football. Easy, made them look crap.
Who was it said there's no point even going? World Cup semi finals, feels very, very good.

by I'm never wrong Sat 7 Jul - 17:05

Beckham had a bet with Ibrahimovic. If Zlatan won, Beckham had to buy him furniture from the LA Ikea store. Beckham has won, and he said Zlatan had to attend an England match at Wembley wearing an England shirt and have fish and chips at half time. Can't wait to see that.

by beninho Sat 7 Jul - 17:24

That was pretty comfortable. Good win, good performance, a semi against croatia or Russia, I'll take that!

by I'm never wrong Sat 7 Jul - 20:52

Are the rules different for goalkeepers than outfield players? The Croatian goalkeeper was treated for an injury but didn’t have to leave the field.

by beninho Sat 7 Jul - 21:32

I would assume so, probably not fair on a team to play without a keeper.

So whoever we play will have played two lots of extra time and looking like pens.

by Be_the_ball Sat 7 Jul - 21:42

Do you have a preference here folks?

by beninho Sat 7 Jul - 21:53

Croatia on paper look better, but they've not looked great in eithet knock.out game. Beatable, but still will be hard. Though Russia in.moscow in a semi woild have been just as difficult.

by Be_the_ball Sat 7 Jul - 22:48

Croatia it is then, another game with not much in it. Extra time and pens will have taken a little something out of them you would have to think.

There was some criticism of Southgate taking the team to Russia a week earlier than a lot of other side's, now it looks like it was a genius move that's given them an extra week to acclimatise to the heat.

Up to now they don't look like they've had to produce a really heroic performance, Sterling is creating chances and you would expect it will click for him soon. A real positive is they don't look like they've peaked yet.

by Diggers Sat 7 Jul - 23:11

We improved massively today IMO. Teams grow into tournaments, Alli looked a different player after scoring. Pickford now had the goods to back up his confidence. Stones was superb today, so was Lingard. I felt after 15 mins I'd be gutted to lose as they were clearly not as good as us, think we could have stepped it up if we'd had to.
Croatia have some cracking players, no doubt about it, match winners. Because of the extra time I'd make us slight favourites. Loving this World Cup!

by I'm never wrong Sat 7 Jul - 23:40

beninho wrote:I would assume so, probably not fair on a team to play without a keeper.

Was on my phone when I wrote my question, and have now had time to look it up easier on my desktop. Apparently there are one or two exceptions to the rule of a player going off when injured, and a goalkeeper is one of them.

by pedro Sat 7 Jul - 23:59

Very rare a team wins two penalty shootouts in the same tournament. And if England and Croatia go to pens.... Shocked

by super_realist Sun 8 Jul - 8:05

beninho wrote:That was pretty comfortable. Good win, good performance, a semi against croatia or Russia, I'll take that!

Mmm, comfortable but Pickford is man of the match?

by beninho Sun 8 Jul - 8:19

Yep, I think we won pretty comfortably. Pickford made 2 good saves, he saved another but that was going over anyway. But they were saves he should have made anyway. Did you not think it was a pretty routine 2-0 victory?

by super_realist Sun 8 Jul - 8:41

I think it was more of a well fought 2-0 rather than routine. Sweden weren't great, but neither were England. If they had been, an outfield player would be man of the match.

England will need to improve as they've been pretty dreary (and wasteful) in the knockouts.

I watched it in a Swedish pub which was half and half and most people were saying England were better, but that it was a poor match.

Fair play though, England are in a semi final (without being especially impressive). Now is the time they need to step up the performances if they want to win it.

by Diggers Sun 8 Jul - 9:15

Super, can you do me a favour. Can you say Sunderland will never win the Premier League. Ta.

by NedB-H Sun 8 Jul - 11:07

You could easily make an argument for Maguire, Trippier or Henderson being man of the match. Pickford got it because saves are memorable, in the same way that you get man of the match if you score a hat trick, even if they were three tap ins and you did nothing else all game. There’s been twelve knockout games so far and that was probably the most comfortable win anyone’s had yet....

by Be_the_ball Sun 8 Jul - 11:33

One of the things that stands out is the lack of "super stars" in the team, I don't get the impression that there are different cliques or ego's within the team.

I'm not having a go at Rooney, but it looks good now that he retired when he did. This is very much a different generation.

by Diggers Sun 8 Jul - 17:51

It's funny that we aren't clinical and are dodgy at the back, yet are right up there with fewest goals conceded and most goals scored.
I said after 15 mins we would win 2 or 3 nil yesterday, there was a clear gulf. Nobody from that Sweden side would make my England squad, let alone side.
Croatia are a different proposition, that is as near as damn it 50-50. Am hoping they'll be a bit leggy.
I predicted a run to the semis before it began, reaching the final would be superb, a mindset changer and great for the flood of talent that should be coming through.
And who knows, we could still win this thing.

by Diggers Sun 8 Jul - 18:52

Had some people we know at the game. Apparently, the players stayed about an hour in the stands with fans, chatting and taking selfies. Seem like a really good bunch of lads having the time of their lives.

by Davie Sun 8 Jul - 20:46

I have been the last person to get too carried away up to this point .. but are we now at the stage that we can just let ourselves dream just a little bit?

by Diggers Sun 8 Jul - 21:51

Course we are Davie, every one of the 4 sides left should believe they have a chance and they all do, including us.

by NedB-H Sun 8 Jul - 22:11

Think the counter-arguments of “England aren’t creative” “But they’ve scored as many goals as anyone” is a good clue to why they’re doing so well. I think I’m right in saying England have scored 11 goals so far, of which 3 were penalties, 6 were headers (5 of them from corners) and one was the fluke Kane deflection against Panama. The only genuinely well-created goals they’ve scored from open play are Lingard’s screamer and Alli’s header yesterday.

The genius of Southgate, if anything, has been to set up a very old-fashioned classic “English” side and then disguise it as something else entirely. Essentially the team has been built around a hardworking centre forward, and winning set pieces so you can throw forward a couple of centre halves who are good in the air. The set pieces are won by a couple of quick lads making runs inside of the striker, and full backs coming up on the overlap and whipping crosses in. They’d fit in well enough into the 1950s but because they have three at the back and a keeper who’s told to pass it short Southgate has passed them off as a “modern” team.

by Be_the_ball Sun 8 Jul - 22:12

Davie wrote:I have been the last person to get too carried away up to this point .. but are we now at the stage that we can just let ourselves dream just a little bit?

Considering they've answered all questions asked so far, I think that's allowed

by Diggers Sun 8 Jul - 22:29

NedB-H wrote:Think the counter-arguments of “England aren’t creative” “But they’ve scored as many goals as anyone” is a good clue to why they’re doing so well. I think I’m right in saying England have scored 11 goals so far, of which 3 were penalties, 6 were headers (5 of them from corners) and one was the fluke Kane deflection against Panama. The only genuinely well-created goals they’ve scored from open play are Lingard’s screamer and Alli’s header yesterday.

The genius of Southgate, if anything, has been to set up a very old-fashioned classic “English” side and then disguise it as something else entirely. Essentially the team has been built around a hardworking centre forward, and winning set pieces so you can throw forward a couple of centre halves who are good in the air. The set pieces are won by a couple of quick lads making runs inside of the striker, and full backs coming up on the overlap and whipping crosses in. They’d fit in well enough into the 1950s but because they have three at the back and a keeper who’s told to pass it short Southgate has passed them off as a “modern” team.

Some of this I agree with, but we aren't the only side where set pieces are key. And goals aren't the only indicator of style of play, game management is just as important and we have done that really well. We try to be positive and look comfortable on the ball. The 3 at the back is a big change, I've never seen our centre backs step into midfield as much as this. Kane hasn't really played the classic centre forward role, he's been way deeper to free up space for other forwards, not a target man at all.
Is there an old or modern in football? I'd say it's more about what's in vogue rather than a new method.

by kwinigolfer Mon 9 Jul - 0:56

Set pieces are something we've been good at. But so have our opponents.
We have to tighten up at the back and stop the careless "nothing" passes out of defence. Especially concerned about Walker who still doesn't seem to understand his role.

by beninho Mon 9 Jul - 8:00

I have been seeing Sterling get some stick after last game. I get he missed a chance, though that was good by thr keeper, but he played well, his pace and movement pushed the defenders back, Croatia have older defenders aswell so he can do the same against them. And if he's replaced with Rashforf its not like for like , rashford is a striker, he plays a different game.

by Diggers Mon 9 Jul - 8:35

Always a bit nervous when England pass at the back but they've done it really well most of the time. Considering it's a new role I think Walker has been outstanding, so much energy, so many covering runs, great interchanging with Trippier.

by wiretapper Mon 9 Jul - 12:17

Davie wrote:I have been the last person to get too carried away up to this point .. but are we now at the stage that we can just let ourselves dream just a little bit?

If I was English I would be beyond carried away by this point. You are a winnable game away from the World Cup Final. Nothing wrong with being optimistic and dreaming now.

Drink it in folks, it may not happen again for some time

by kwinigolfer Mon 9 Jul - 13:08

Diggers wrote:Always a bit nervous when England pass at the back but they've done it really well most of the time. Considering it's a new role I think Walker has been outstanding, so much energy, so many covering runs, great interchanging with Trippier.

Digs,
Being hyper-critical, but just hope we're not undone by carelessness at the back - very much like the fact that Pickford seems to be the de facto leader of the "back four", love the way he's barking out as soon as he sees something he doesn't like.

by raycastleunited Mon 9 Jul - 16:23

Sorry but I'm going to go all super realist here:

We haven't beaten anyone decent yet. Tunisia were very ordinary and we only scraped past them with a 94th minute winner. Panama were hopeless. England reserves v Belgium reserves was meaningless. Colombia may win awards for being the dirtiest team but aren't winning awards for the quality of their football... but somehow England couldn't score and had to rely on penalties. Sweden were a bang average team and although 2-0 sounds comfortable actually Sweden could have caused problems if they had taken their chances.

Relying on set pieces to edge it against mediocre opposition doesn't compare to the impressive performances we've seen from other teams... France sweeping aside Argentina and Uruguay, Belgium put in the performance of the tournament to dump out Brazil, even Russia nullifying Spain was a superb performance.

And yet. And yet. Here we are looking at a Croatia side who have some quality players and started in style with impressive wins over Argentina and Nigeria. But now they look decidedly average after uninspiring penalty shoot out wins against Denmark and Russia. Maybe Croatia peaked too early, while England look like they are growing in strength and confidence. Make no mistake, England are favourites to progress to the final. And what if we get there? Being underdogs could suit us... having to defend in numbers and break quickly is exactly how this team formation is designed to play, and also plays to the strengths of Dele, Sterling and Lingard. I can't wait til Wednesday!

by Diggers Mon 9 Jul - 16:38

kwinigolfer wrote:
Diggers wrote:Always a bit nervous when England pass at the back but they've done it really well most of the time. Considering it's a new role I think Walker has been outstanding, so much energy, so many covering runs, great interchanging with Trippier.

Digs,
Being hyper-critical, but just hope we're not undone by carelessness at the back - very much like the fact that Pickford seems to be the de facto leader of the "back four", love the way he's barking out as soon as he sees something he doesn't like.

For sure Kwini, you look very silly when you get caught out and we had slipped up on a couple of occasions, but when France play out from the back we rave, when we do it we cower, even though it's an integral part of the system we are playing. This back 3/5 are still gelling together, they definitely looked slicker against Sweden. My only worry is when we sit deep and invite pressure, that's the old England failing and Modric would love that kind of space.
Agree re Pickford, the lad knows he belongs now. You need a commanding keeper.

by super_realist Mon 9 Jul - 18:46

Will England do a Tim Henman or an Andy Murray?

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