Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[McLaren]

First topic message reminder :

Kwini

I reckon Harry has scored a double eagle.

She's a weird looking bird, more a bogey I'd say.

Kwini, you have very high standards. I seem to remember you thought Lexi was a bit of a minger.

[navyblueshorts]

So apparently the two Russians had to turn back on their first trip to Salisbury as it was TOO COLD! They're from bleeding Russia ffs, Salisbury in March can't be as cold as Russia I would have thought !?!?

Yeah. As if.

[navyblueshorts]

As a followup, worth reading Mark Galeotti's "The Vory". An eye opener.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-29/the-vory-russias-super-mafia-world-cup/9899542

[Diggers]

Yates on the verge of another GB grand tour win, unbelievable really. Talk about famine to feast in the past 5-6 years.

[NedB-H]

You can see why the other countries ask questions can’t you...

[Diggers]

This isn’t Sky though, Ned. Can’t really taint him that way, or at least, no more than any other big name lead rider.

[kwinigolfer]

Unusual thing happened at the Buffalo Bills game vs the Los Angeles Chargers today - the Bills starting corner back retired, yup RETIRED, at half-time.
(Arsene Wenger immediately tweeted that Mesut Ozil had done that a few times for the Arsenal but had always eventually returned.)

[Roller_Coaster]

That is bizarre, although I thought there were a couple of games in Gary Neville's last season at Man U where it could have been the sensible choice.

[wiretapper]

You can see why the other countries ask questions can’t you...

20 years of lottery funding for our elite athletes followed by one of our biggest companies creating and financing a pro-team so that from the start it has better resources than all the others?

[kwinigolfer]

Sorry to read of the death of Kevin Beattie, just 64.

I never saw Duncan Edwards play, but Beattie is the only man since that I've heard mentioned in the same breath in terms of his ability as a young man. By some way the most imposing young defender I ever watched play, shocking that debilitating injuries limited him to just 9 caps.
Fantastic in the air, strong in the tackle, a powerhouse moving forward and thunderbolts from his left foot. Scored goals at a clip, more than one every ten games, that plenty of forwards would aspire to.
Anyone else see him play?

[BlueCoverman]

Yes kwini I'm not an Ipswich fan but saw him play at Portman Road a few times in that fantastic team, superbly managed by Sir Bobby Robson.

Amazing really, with all those qualities that you mention he was reduced to living on disability benefits and working on a Saturday afternoon for Radio Suffolk commentating on Ipswich matches for 45 quid a pop. In fact he commentated on Hull v Ipswich on Saturday afternoon and then died in his sleep from a heart attack just a few hours later. Scary stuff.

I remember reading that he wrote the most he ever earned playing football was 250 quid a week. I wonder what he would have been worth in today's game. I don't think he would have been scratching around for a living in retirement that's for sure.

[Diggers]

Absolutely quality player in a fantastic side. I bet he’s not the only one from that era who isn’t loaded, lots of failed pub owners Id imagine.

[super_realist]

Isnt' this "cultural appropriation" stuff a load of balls.
Surely we should all be taking bits of each others culture if we want to integrate better? Having certain things reserved for particular minorities is pretty pathetic.

[McLaren]

Isnt' this "cultural appropriation" stuff a load of balls.
Surely we should all be taking bits of each others culture if we want to integrate better? Having certain things reserved for particular minorities is pretty pathetic.

What prompted you to mention this? Do you have an incident in mind that that tipped you over the edge on this issue?

[pedro]

He doesn’t want to wear kilt...

[Roller_Coaster]

R&A/USGA Distance Survey

If it's of any interest to anyone to complete or pass on to anyone.

[Roller_Coaster]

Not an amazing set of questions, and it's quite long but I completed it.

[wiretapper]

He doesn’t want to wear kilt...

When I'm at a do and I hear an English accent in a kilt the first thing that pops into my mind is "he shouldn't be allowed to wear that."

Then I remember that I like cricket so you know 1-1

[super_realist]

Isnt' this "cultural appropriation" stuff a load of balls.
Surely we should all be taking bits of each others culture if we want to integrate better? Having certain things reserved for particular minorities is pretty pathetic.

What prompted you to mention this? Do you have an incident in mind that that tipped you over the edge on this issue?

I saw something on the news this morning  Mac about some (White, Scottish) chef who had earned some award for his cooking using 60,000 year old Aboriginal ingredients and methods, and no one has gone on about how it is "eroding aboriginal culture"  whilst it was only a few weeks ago when people were talking about Jamie Oliver making "jerk rice" and lots of shrieking people were absolutely losing it.  Where were all the fake offence brigade to get on the chef who "appropriated" aboriginal culture?

Why would anyone care if someone cooked something or had a haircut that wasn't part of your "culture"? No one cares if an Englishman wears a kilt to a wedding, no one cares if an African wears a business suit, no one cares if someone outside America has a mullet so I don't really see why they care about a dish or a haircut.


Was just the other week when scrubbers like Jack Monroe were going off their heads because an able bodied person was playing The Elephant Man in a new production.

[Diggers]

He doesn’t want to wear kilt...

When I'm at a do and I hear an English accent in a kilt the first thing that pops into my mind is "he shouldn't be allowed to wear that."

Then I remember that I like cricket so you know 1-1

I’d just think he was a posh boy from Edinburgh. Half the jock rugby team used to sound more English than me, though admittedly I am northern!

[pedro]

Nice to see an assistant ref finally taking responsibility and have a player sent off. Ronaldo was clearly pulling the defenders hair (who by the way should have been booked for diving).

[McLaren]

So a story about a case where no allegations of cultural appropriation were made has triggered you about cultural appropriation?


In general when it comes to cultural appropriation I tend to think about it in terms of how the person borrowing from another culture has acknowledged the history of the thing they are borrowing.  As white men from a country that has been guilty of wreaking havoc around the globe we should probably wonder if other people really want us nicking and distorting cultural elements from them. I know you totally dismiss the idea of offence as you define it but if we use offence in a more general sense to convey people feeling uncomfortable, upset and angry about something, then saying that cultural appropriation causes offence is a good place to start.

There is also an issue with removing the power of the original owners of the idea to keep it as they would like when their culture is appropriated by a more "privileged" group. I guess cultural appropriation is sort of like an unwanted change in ownership of the idea.

[super_realist]

Mac, it was the lack of consistency. It seems on one hand certain people will fall over themselves to cry about it, but on something which is directly comparable there wasn't a peep.

I don't, and you shouldn't have to worry about the "history of white men". There is a point which has long passed where we shouldn't have to apologise for the deeds of our ancestors. If the aboriginals don't care about a white Scottish chef "appropriating their culture" (and they have grounds to hate the white man more than probably any other culture) then perhaps people shouldn't be so "upset" about Jamie Oliver making jerk rice, or a white person having dreadlocks. It's way out of proportion.

I'd rather live in a multi cultural society where people can dress and eat the way they please without some Graudian type saying that it's only reserved if you have roots in some other culture or country, and that's coming from someone who thinks Jamie Oliver is a tw@t and white dreadlocks look ridiculous.

[McLaren]

I am not all that familiar with the Oliver Jerk rice case but it sounds a little ridiculous.  But just because some people have lost their minds over a pot of rice doesn't mean we should dismiss more important cases of cultural appropriation.

Also, I clearly have no issue with multiculturalism.  But as I tried to point out I think cultural appropriation isn't just the use of one cultures ideas by another it is when one more affluent/privileged etc  culture removes the ability of the originator culture to have a say in where that idea goes.

[Diggers]

I'd rather live in a multi cultural society where people can dress and eat the way they please without some Graudian type saying that it's only reserved if you have roots in some other culture or country, and that's coming from someone who thinks Jamie Oliver is a tw@t and white dreadlocks look ridiculous.

But you also want to live in a society where people of faith who dress in a particular way (with no detrimental effect on anyone else) can be publicly mocked for doing so, and have no right to be upset about it. Can't you see your own lack of consistency there?

[super_realist]

I can't really see a contradiction there Diggers. I've never said people can't wear what they want, my objection is that many appear to be coerced into dressing such a way by an outdated, revolting and unjust belief system, or that they claim to do it in deference to a belief system. Why is it no non religious people dress this way?

Why is it that males don't have a head covering? If such headwear is down to choice, why do no men choose to cover their head? They may not always be "coerced" into it, but this arabification is even condemned by leading Imams such as Taj Hargey and moderate muslims like Maajid Nawaz.

Why are people so keen to defend this idiotic belief system? Everyone seems to be rightly against every other organisation that is misogynist and openly homophobic like the Catholic Church for instance, but people defend this religion. Why? Is it scared of offending a group which has no sense of humour and can't take criticism of it?

[raycastleunited]

I do understand the fuss over Jamie Oliver's jerk dish. Jerk refers to a particular style of preparation and ingredients. Oliver developed a recipe which included a different set of ingredients and cooking style, but he labelled it jerk because it was good for marketing and he is a bit of a jerk. If he had said the recipe was inspired by jerk cooking I think this would have been fine. It is normal for people proud of their culture and culinary history to get annoyed when foreign companies rip off dishes that are iconic to them. There are laws about provenance to protect champagne, parma ham etc.

[super_realist]

Yes, there's provenance issues, but that's due to a trademark, not necessarily cultural. For example Parma Ham or Melton Mowbray Pies or Champagne or various types of cheese. They all refer to places not culture.


I note how the Indians and Pakistani's aren't in a fuss over British Curry appropriating their version of curry and making something completely different but still calling it curry.

I also didn't see the Italians crying foul over Oliver for not being Italian. Seems to me people were just jumping on the "race card" for the Oliver issue. I certainly didn't see anyone crying about Rusty Lee "appropriating" British dishes in the 1980's.

[raycastleunited]

Italian is a good example. If Oliver started selling a pasta carbonara dish that included tomatoes and courgettes people would be up in arms, but he generally respects the traditional ingredients in these dishes.

[McLaren]

Ray

Ok, as I said I wasn't aware of the specifics of the Oliver jerk rice incident but it sounds like he was pretty dishonest at best.  BUt it does sort of highlight what I was getting at about cultural appropriation being about diminishing the original idea and removing control from those that originated it.  It is only a small thing to miss label a rice dish but at some point in the future what does "jerk" mean if for years it has been stuck on any concoction sold in Tesco?  People like super may not see food as a piece of cultural worth protecting but this example possibly highlights how the system of cultural appropriation might work.


As for some of supers other comments surrounding this issue has anyone else noticed that the right only seem to care about womens rights in relation to Islam or antisemitism when it concerns JC?

(And no that is not me defending JC or Livingstons views on the Jews)

[raycastleunited]

I guess there are 2 types of appropriation.

1. Stealing an idea and passing it off as your own. I suppose the fact that hamburgers, frankfurters and pizza are considered American dishes by many people is an example of this.

2. Mis-labelling your own product / idea as belonging to a particular culture so as to gain cachet or credibility. In this case jerk chicken, but we see constant references to "ethnic" or "artisan" products to justify increasing the prices.

It's easy to use food as an example, but it applies to many more things, from music to clothing to literature.

[super_realist]

Ray

Ok, as I said I wasn't aware of the specifics of the Oliver jerk rice incident but it sounds like he was pretty dishonest at best.  BUt it does sort of highlight what I was getting at about cultural appropriation being about diminishing the original idea and removing control from those that originated it.  It is only a small thing to miss label a rice dish but at some point in the future what does "jerk" mean if for years it has been stuck on any concoction sold in Tesco?  People like super may not see food as a piece of cultural worth protecting but this example possibly highlights how the system of cultural appropriation might work.


As for some of supers other comments surrounding this issue has anyone else noticed that the right only seem to care about womens rights in relation to Islam or antisemitism when it concerns JC?

(And no that is not me defending JC or Livingstons views on the Jews)

I never once mentioned Corbyn and I'd support equality at every point, just not in regards to Islam, and I've always been consistent that all religions subjugate women and should be called on it. Funny how people always criticise lack of equality or homophobia everywhere EXCEPT in Islam isn't it? If any political party was to say or believe the things that religions do, they'd get panned, but everyone is too scared of offending them.

I don't really care about anti-Semitism I have to say. There's no visible jewish presence up here that I'm aware of, and it crosses my path about as much as someone claims to see the Loch Ness monster.

By the way, who the hell thinks of Pizza as an American food?

[navyblueshorts]

I do understand the fuss over Jamie Oliver's jerk dish. Jerk refers to a particular style of preparation and ingredients. Oliver developed a recipe which included a different set of ingredients and cooking style, but he labelled it jerk because it was good for marketing and he is a bit of a jerk. If he had said the recipe was inspired by jerk cooking I think this would have been fine. It is normal for people proud of their culture and culinary history to get annoyed when foreign companies rip off dishes that are iconic to them. There are laws about provenance to protect champagne, parma ham etc.

Drat! Another thing the Brexiteers forgot about...

[pedro]

The Italian cuisine is probably the most r@ped of them all. For instance Pasta Carbonara and Bolognese are different in Italy compared to anywhere else. American pizza is also hardly pizza, nor is “pizza” with pineapple or shawarma. Just as many supermarket fast foods or restaurants label themselves as Italian, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Yet the Italians don’t whine, they just laugh. Why? Because they are at ease with their own cuisine and (food) culture. They even see it as a stamp of approval when the world wants to emulate them.

But clearly, the PC brigade is not at ease with some 3rd world cuisines or cultures. Hardly surprising though.

[Diggers]

Lots of rubbish spoken about which country owns which particular cuisine or dish. Half the time it's the same ingredients presented in a slightly different way.

[Roller_Coaster]

Lots of rubbish spoken about which country owns which particular cuisine or dish. Half the time it's the same ingredients presented in a slightly different way.

[pedro]

Half the time it's the same ingredients presented in a slightly different way.

Same with women..

[McLaren]

I never once mentioned Corbyn and I'd support equality at every point, just not in regards to Islam, and I've always been consistent that all religions subjugate women and should be called on it. 

I know you didn't mention Corbyn but I was lumping your selective interest in womens rights in with right wingers who only seem to care about antisemitism when its used against Corbyn. And again I don't really like JC and he was probably antisemitic at certain points but it would be great to see the right wing extend its concerns about the treatment of minorities or under privileged groups.

Also if I am charitable and extend your concern for womens rights to how other religions treat women it doesn't mean you give a toss about equal pay, sexual harassment, gender stereotypes that pigeon hole girls, violence towards women etc.   I don't remember you being that bothered about issues such as those unless you can use it to bash religion.

[raycastleunited]

Ray

Ok, as I said I wasn't aware of the specifics of the Oliver jerk rice incident but it sounds like he was pretty dishonest at best.  BUt it does sort of highlight what I was getting at about cultural appropriation being about diminishing the original idea and removing control from those that originated it.  It is only a small thing to miss label a rice dish but at some point in the future what does "jerk" mean if for years it has been stuck on any concoction sold in Tesco?  People like super may not see food as a piece of cultural worth protecting but this example possibly highlights how the system of cultural appropriation might work.


As for some of supers other comments surrounding this issue has anyone else noticed that the right only seem to care about womens rights in relation to Islam or antisemitism when it concerns JC?

(And no that is not me defending JC or Livingstons views on the Jews)

I never once mentioned Corbyn and I'd support equality at every point, just not in regards to Islam, and I've always been consistent that all religions subjugate women and should be called on it. Funny how people always criticise lack of equality or homophobia everywhere EXCEPT in Islam isn't it? If any political party was to say or believe the things that religions do, they'd get panned, but everyone is too scared of offending them.

I don't really care about anti-Semitism I have to say. There's no visible jewish presence up here that I'm aware of, and it crosses my path about as much as someone claims to see the Loch Ness monster.

By the way, who the hell thinks of Pizza as an American food?

I thought JC referred to the Jewish Chronicle?

And loads of people think pizza is American. check out this place local to you:

http://www.mammas.co.uk/

[McLaren]

I used to go there a fair bit in uni but probably haven't been for nearly ten years now. To my youthful unrefined palette it did OK pizza.

[Diggers]

So, with a crushing inevitably we stagger toward the Brexit cliff edge. It’s like watching a bunch of lemmings, we’ve started so we’ll finish.. it’s like we are in reverse evolution, plunging into abject stupidity. Ultimately, if the majority of the country are so genuinely retarded to feel this is somehow a wise decision that will sort itself out, then quite frankly we deserve everything that is coming to us.

[super_realist]

Ray

Ok, as I said I wasn't aware of the specifics of the Oliver jerk rice incident but it sounds like he was pretty dishonest at best.  BUt it does sort of highlight what I was getting at about cultural appropriation being about diminishing the original idea and removing control from those that originated it.  It is only a small thing to miss label a rice dish but at some point in the future what does "jerk" mean if for years it has been stuck on any concoction sold in Tesco?  People like super may not see food as a piece of cultural worth protecting but this example possibly highlights how the system of cultural appropriation might work.


As for some of supers other comments surrounding this issue has anyone else noticed that the right only seem to care about womens rights in relation to Islam or antisemitism when it concerns JC?

(And no that is not me defending JC or Livingstons views on the Jews)

I never once mentioned Corbyn and I'd support equality at every point, just not in regards to Islam, and I've always been consistent that all religions subjugate women and should be called on it. Funny how people always criticise lack of equality or homophobia everywhere EXCEPT in Islam isn't it? If any political party was to say or believe the things that religions do, they'd get panned, but everyone is too scared of offending them.

I don't really care about anti-Semitism I have to say. There's no visible jewish presence up here that I'm aware of, and it crosses my path about as much as someone claims to see the Loch Ness monster.

By the way, who the hell thinks of Pizza as an American food?

I thought JC referred to the Jewish Chronicle?

And loads of people think pizza is American. check out this place local to you:

http://www.mammas.co.uk/

Only an idiot would think that Pizza was American

[navyblueshorts]

So, with a crushing inevitably we stagger toward the Brexit cliff edge. It’s like watching a bunch of lemmings, we’ve started so we’ll finish.. it’s like we are in reverse evolution, plunging into abject stupidity. Ultimately, if the majority of the country are so genuinely retarded to feel this is somehow a wise decision that will sort itself out, then quite frankly we deserve everything that is coming to us.

Well put!

[navyblueshorts]

Ah, the snobbery and arguments over so-called ownership of some bloody dish. No, the origin of pizza isn't American, but only a cretin would ignore the variation on the theme that's come from America. Ok, I don't do 'deep pan' and a 'Hawaiian' isn't Italian (at all; but it is very nice), but if food doesn't evolve and develop, it'll be a lot poorer for it. Just appreciate the whole gamut of food that's out there and be happy some people actually like 'your' f*cking dish.

This sort of fuss a la Jamie Oliver's 'jerk' recipe is pathetic. The sort of thing people make a noise about when they haven't got anything actually worthwhile to do in their daily lives.

[beninho]

To be fair olivers jerk rice was nothing to do with jerk cooking. You can get plenty of jerk products with.no issues, but oliver just made something up and used the term to sell it. Can see why people may be annoyed.

I've read things about italians being annoyed with the mash up pasta dishes not being as intended, even seen spaniards annoyed with what people call paella im certain places.

[Be_the_ball]

Italians are notorious for being picky about how Italian dishes are cooked. It is a running joke within Italian culture. No one cooks it like their own mama, too much this not enough that. Staff will always hear this in Italian restaurants from Italian customers and laugh about it. Personally I love Italian food and Italy in general, I got married there.

[Diggers]

To the Scottish element on here, how is Ruth Davidson perceived up there? She’s on Saturday Kitchen, whenever I see her on anything she comes across really, really well (and I’m predisposed to despise Conservative politicians).
Clearly the party doesn’t do that well, has she improved their image/standing in any way?

[super_realist]

It's a tricky one Diggers because so many people like Mac up here won't say anything good about her because she's a Tory and for no other reason, but I'm pleased to see she isn't discriminated against for the other things she stands for like being gay. I think the left up here probably have a sneaking, silent admiration for her but would stop short of coming out and actually saying it.

I agree with you that she comes across well, and she mostly has Krankie in her back pocket too.

It does seem she is well liked down south, but I have heard she's counted herself out of ever being Tory party leader, which is a shame as with all the terrible leadership from May, Corbyn, Cable etc she's probably one of the few politicians with any actual credibility and might actually make the Tories more appealing.

I've just turned it on, are you sure you're not confusing her with Susan Calman?

[navyblueshorts]

To be fair olivers jerk rice was nothing to do with jerk cooking. You can get plenty of jerk products with.no issues, but oliver just made something up and used the term to sell it. Can see why people may be annoyed.

I've read things about italians being annoyed with the mash up pasta dishes not being as intended, even seen spaniards annoyed with what people call paella im certain places.

Umm, so what? If people took any real notice of this, we'd all still be eating what our ancient ancestors did. Oliver didn't claim it was his, or pass it off as his invention. Even if he did, you can't copyright recipes.

[McLaren]

To the Scottish element on here, how is Ruth Davidson perceived up there? She’s on Saturday Kitchen

It's Susan Calman on Saturday Kitchen.

[super_realist]

To the Scottish element on here, how is Ruth Davidson perceived up there? She’s on Saturday Kitchen

It's Susan Calman on Saturday Kitchen.

Easy mistake to make.

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