England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

First topic message reminder :

T20s

A three match series between the 2nd (India) and 4th ranked teams in the world https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/team-rankings/t20i

Fixtures

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 17:30
Emirates Old Trafford, Manchester

Friday 6th July 2018 17:30
Sophia Gardens Cardiff, Cardiff

Sunday 8th July 2018 14:00
The Brightside Ground, Bristol


Squads

England: Morgan, Ali, Bairstow, Ball, Buttler, Curran S, Curran T, Hales, Jordan, Plunkett, Rashid, Root, Roy, Willey (Malan in as cover for 1st game, Stokes may join for 3rd)

India: Kohli, Chahal, Chahar, Dhawan, Dhoni, Karthik, Kaul, Kuldeep Yadav, Kumar, Pandey, HH Pandya, KH Pandya, Rahul, Raina, Sharma UT Yadav


Key Men

Jos Buttler - move up the order during IPL has given him much more time to have an impact. While only ranked 26 in ICC rankings, this will improve now he opens.
Alex Hales - Formerly top ranked batter in T20s, has dropped a bit (to 7) and finds his place in the England side under threat.
Rashid/Ali - Englands spinners have thrived in the one day format, but will find the Indian batting lineup a tough test.

Virat Kohli - probably the best batsmen in the world across all 3 forms of the game. Some injury issues recently.
Chahal/Kuldeep Yadav - India look like going with two wrist spinners. England often struggle to score quickly against good spin.



ODIs

Fixtures

Another 3 match series between the the top two ranked sides in the world.  Both teams will be wanting to lay down a marker before next year's world cup.


Thursday 12th July 2018 12:30
Trent Bridge, Nottingham

Saturday 14th July 2018 11:00
Lord's, London

Tuesday 17th July 2018 12:30
Emerald Headingley, Leeds


Squads

England - Eoin Morgan (capt), Moeen Ali, Jonny Bairstow, Jake Ball, Jos Buttler, Alex Hales, Liam Plunkett, Adil Rashid, Joe Root, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, David Willey, Mark Wood.



Test Series

A form of cricket in which the visitors have been much better than the hosts. The series goes deep into September as India seek to avenge the series defeat in 2014. In a manner we have become used to seeing from touring teams around the world, that series India capitulated in the final 3 tests  having won the second test to take a 1-0 lead. India however look strong enough this time out to put pressure on a faltering home test team.


Fixtures

Wednesday 1st August 2018 11:00
Edgbaston, Birmingham

Thursday 9th August 2018 11:00
Lord's, London

Saturday 18th August 2018 11:00
Trent Bridge, Nottingham

Thursday 30th August 2018 11:00
Ageas Bowl, Southampton

Friday 7th September 2018 11:00
Kia Oval, London

Not feeling like watching the game. As I thought, bright and sunny, and looks like England marching ahead... Shami and Ishant have chipped out the England openers as I can see on the cricinfo updates, but with just 107 on the board, all England need is one decent partnership that they should get in these conditions somewhere in that long batting lineup. And after that, the weather is set to change, meaning the Indian batsmen will have to play well in swinging conditions yet again. They don't have the form, skill or the mindset to do that as a collective. So the weather may not hold good for parts of the remaining bits of the game, but India will be lucky to get away with a draw here.

I wouldn't give up that easily , msp. This England batting order is really fragile. Get Root and you'd be fancying a lead...and so far Root has looked all at sea.

And Ashwin hasn't even bowled yet !

With those 2 wickets down, there will be great responsibility on Hardik Pandya. There is no Umesh here, Pandya is the 3rd seamer. He has to try and keep the pressure and also continue to attack, has to look to get wickets... A leaky and inconsistent performance like the one in the first test will add to India's troubles.

Alfie, not sure this is a pitch where Ashwin can run through sides... He might still be in the game, and if the effects of the rain are still there on the pitch, probably he might even find a bit of assistance early on. So I wouldn't mind if he comes in first change. But the problem is that number , 107. Nothing really for Ashwin to work with...

Off for a bit, has to go out. Hoping against hope India would still be alive in the game when I come back.

Good test of Ollie Pope's technique and temperament. So far he has coped.

Pope out for 28 trapped lbw. England 78 for 3. Not a bad debut knock.

Liked what I saw of Pope.  Came in to a pressure situation ; handled it well , looked relaxed.
Only thing he did wrong was waste another review : has Shane Watson been hired as batting coach ?  Losing both reviews might yet come back to bite them.

77/3 ...creeping up on India. But the seam bowlers doing enough to stop them running away. India may regret going with two spinners ...unless they can bat big second time around.

Root still struggling. How often is he 11 off 44 ?

CaledonianCraig wrote:One thing I am really surprised about is that there isn't a 10.30am start today considering how much time has been lost over the last two days? I say this as the BBC website is saying play starts at 11am.

Craig - it's just maddening that they don't start early in these circumstances. Particularly when players are often on the outfield at this time playing football! Same applies to Championship matches.

msp83 wrote:Alfie, not sure this is a pitch where Ashwin can run through sides... He might still be in the game, and if the effects of the rain are still there on the pitch, probably he might even find a bit of assistance early on. So I wouldn't mind if he comes in first change. But the problem is that number , 107. Nothing really for Ashwin to work with...

Well you're probably right there , msp. Not really an Ashwin pitch...but he did bowl well at Edgbaston and I'd have expected him to get a few early overs...guess he would have done so had the left handers not got out. He might have kept it tighter than Kuldeep though.

guildfordbat wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:One thing I am really surprised about is that there isn't a 10.30am start today considering how much time has been lost over the last two days? I say this as the BBC website is saying play starts at 11am.

Craig - it's just maddening that they don't start early in these circumstances. Particularly when players are often on the outfield at this time playing football! Same applies to Championship matches.

Yes why is that ? I thought it was standard procedure to make up overs these days ? Rule change for this series ?

alfie wrote:Liked what I saw of Pope.  Came in to a pressure situation ; handled it well , looked relaxed.
Only thing he did wrong was waste another review : has Shane Watson been hired as batting coach ?  Losing both reviews might yet come back to bite them.

77/3 ...creeping up on India. But the seam bowlers doing enough to stop them running away. India may regret going with two spinners ...unless they can bat big second time around.

Root still struggling. How often is he 11 off 44 ?

Hi Alfie - was that Pope or his captain (or both)?

Unfortunately, I didn't see his innings but sounds like it was encouraging. I feel he's got a lot going for him, talent and temperament.

Meanwhile, Jennings needs runs second dig. If he doesn't, another Surrey man - Burns - might just get the call.

Root gone lbw ! Game on ...89/4 at lunch and India into the tail...

That kept low.

Best thing for India now is to allow England to bat all day.

Rolling them out for 250 would, amusingly enough, increase the chances of an England win, with more rain on the way.

Ooh...89/4.

Peach of a delivery traps Root lbw for 19 and lunch is taken. England 89 for 4 and trail by 18 with 6 wickets still standing. England still on top for me and will fancy building a lead between 50 and 100.

alfie wrote:89/4 at lunch and India into the tail....

Steady on!

No way will England bat all day. Lucky to get 200...and if they do they'll probably get them quickly. Ball still doing enough to keep all the pace men interested.
I think we will see a result here ...not yet sure which way , though England have the advantage at present.

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:89/4 at lunch and India into the tail....

Steady on!

OK , slightly tongue in cheek

But the full- time batsmen are all gone ...only wicket keepers and bowlers left. Hopefully one or two of them will step up.

England are a team who find ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:Liked what I saw of Pope.  Came in to a pressure situation ; handled it well , looked relaxed.
Only thing he did wrong was waste another review : has Shane Watson been hired as batting coach ?  Losing both reviews might yet come back to bite them.

77/3 ...creeping up on India. But the seam bowlers doing enough to stop them running away. India may regret going with two spinners ...unless they can bat big second time around.

Root still struggling. How often is he 11 off 44 ?

Hi Alfie - was that Pope or his captain (or both)?

Unfortunately, I didn't see his innings but sounds like it was encouraging. I feel he's got a lot going for him, talent and temperament.

Meanwhile, Jennings needs runs second dig. If he doesn't, another Surrey man - Burns - might just get the call.

Well Pope looked as if he wanted to send it upstairs...maybe Root felt sorry for him. Bad decision though , with no spare reviews .

Was a very good first effort. If I am any judge , he is one worth giving a good initial run. I think he has something.
( I thought the same of Hameed , mind...and look what has happened to him ! Not that I've totally given up on him : the injury break and resultant loss of confidence has stalled his career but he is young enough to come again. )

alfie wrote:No way will England bat all day.  Lucky to get 200...and if they do they'll probably get them quickly.  Ball still doing enough to keep all the pace men interested.

Yes, I agree.

That wicket right at the end of the session keeps India in it. But they need to get England out for under 150 to have a chance.

England in the driving seat on 116 for 4. They lead by 9 with six wickets still standing.

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:One thing I am really surprised about is that there isn't a 10.30am start today considering how much time has been lost over the last two days? I say this as the BBC website is saying play starts at 11am.

Craig - it's just maddening that they don't start early in these circumstances. Particularly when players are often on the outfield at this time playing football! Same applies to Championship matches.

Yes why is that ?  I thought it was standard procedure to make up overs these days ? Rule change for this series ?

They do add time on at the end of the day (not day 5 though) although that doesn't amount to too much with slow over rates and there still being a cut off time (albeit extended). I don't think that the start time is ever brought forward for England games at home although have no idea why not.

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:One thing I am really surprised about is that there isn't a 10.30am start today considering how much time has been lost over the last two days? I say this as the BBC website is saying play starts at 11am.

Craig - it's just maddening that they don't start early in these circumstances. Particularly when players are often on the outfield at this time playing football! Same applies to Championship matches.

Yes why is that ?  I thought it was standard procedure to make up overs these days ? Rule change for this series ?

They do add time on at the end of the day (not day 5 though) although that doesn't amount to too much with slow over rates and there still being a cut off time (albeit extended). I don't think that the start time is ever brought forward for England games at home although have no idea why not.

It is a real opportunity lost for me.

Advantage England big time now. They have a lead of 50 with 5 wickets still standing. England 157 for 5.

India's chances are all but finished.

They need to keep England batting for as long as possible, and hope the expected rain arrives on Sunday and Monday. 1-0 down with three to play and India still have every chance; 2-0 down and it's effectively goodnight.

England taking a stranglehold here. 50 partnership up and a 50 up for Bairstow who is also nearing 3500 runs in test cricket. England 187 for 5. England lead by 80.

This stand between YJB and Sir Chris taking the game way from India rapidly.  85 on now.

Not the prettiest fifty for Bairstow ; but gold dust in this low scoring game.

Kuldeep selection looking a very poor choice.

England will surely struggle to lose this from here?

England must be aware of the poor weather forecast over the next two days so the plan should be to declare around 300 (if then reach that much) and put India into bat this evening and look to grab a wicket or two. That would be the perfect day for them I would say.

200 up. Think these two will push on quick as can ...if they could get India back in tonight they really could take a grip on this game.

I know the forecast is bad ; but surely we won't have three full days out of five washed away ? Get a solid lead and you'd think sixty overs might do for India second time around ...

alfie wrote:200 up.  Think these two will push on quick as can ...if they could get India back in tonight they really could take a grip on this game.

I know the forecast is bad ; but surely we won't have three full days out of five washed away ?  Get a solid lead and you'd think sixty overs might do for India second time around ...

Looking at the forecast I think we'll get around a day's play in after today spread over Sunday and Monday. There is time there but not for India.

I think England could even be ultra-aggressive and declare on 250 but can't see them doing that.

Still a lot of overs left in the day. Think they'll get as many as they can. Sting has gone out of the bowling ; but I've seen balls keeping low so I'd imagine there will be ways to get wickets when India bat again.

I really don't see the hype surrounding Kuldeep to be brutally honest. In limited overs cricket batsmen pin their ears back and pretty donate their wickets away. Kuldeep seems like another Ajantha Mendis, lacks the skills of bowling long spells. How Kohli bowled him before Ashwin is pure comedy. Supposedly Ashwin is weak against right handers, if you've taken 300 odd wickets surely he'd have gotten a few right hand batsmen out?

Fifty up for Woakes. Handy wickets in the first innings and a solid contribution with the bat. Good all-round display.

In home conditions Woakes is almost a must pick. Averages nearly 50 with the bat and 22 with the ball. If only he could do something similar when we go overseas

And up comes Bairstow's 3500th run in test cricket.

Fantastic stuff by these two...time may become a factor again though. Theres a good chance play will end early today with rain coming in, and tomorrow is likely to be a right off. The forecast for Monday has got a lot better ...but England are only leaving themselves a day to bowl India out without the perfect conditions they had in the first innings for Anderson. Overall though Englands controlled aggression has payed dividends in this test and theyve given themselves a strong chance of winning a test that had draw written all over it.

It is also worth pointing out that Chris Woakes is closing in on posting his highest score in test cricket.

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:In home conditions Woakes is almost a must pick. Averages nearly 50 with the bat and 22 with the ball. If only he could do something similar when we go overseas

Isnt that the issue with everyone?

If we good take some cloud, grass and the dukes ball then England would be number one.

And for all this series is heartening in terms of results its done nothing for Englands long term development to cover the known issues.
They still dont have a top 3, most of their side is batting a place too high, they cant play quality spin or genuine fast bowling, their seamers need the dukes ball ( and a bit of cloud and grass), their only fast bowler isnt that fast and is rubbish, and they don't have a spinner worth picking on their bowling.

If anything doing OK every summer just continues to make it harder to make the investments and fundamental changes in the domestic game and England development pathways to address that.

Currans done great with his chances too, but does anyone think he'll offer a real threat on typical Asian or Aussie pitches?


But maybe thats just me being pessimistic....enjoying this stand for now.

And Woakes moves on to 68 to post his highest score in test cricket. England 261 for 5. The lead is now 154.

England have the lead at 150.

I would seriously think about declaring now, but I doubt Root will be that attacking.

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:One thing I am really surprised about is that there isn't a 10.30am start today considering how much time has been lost over the last two days? I say this as the BBC website is saying play starts at 11am.

Craig - it's just maddening that they don't start early in these circumstances. Particularly when players are often on the outfield at this time playing football! Same applies to Championship matches.

Yes why is that ?  I thought it was standard procedure to make up overs these days ? Rule change for this series ?

They do add time on at the end of the day (not day 5 though) although that doesn't amount to too much with slow over rates and there still being a cut off time (albeit extended). I don't think that the start time is ever brought forward for England games at home although have no idea why not.

I think they can only add on an extra 30 minutes to the schedule. In Aus they often put it on at the start because they lose the light earlier (due to sunset, not cloud cover), but in England this isn't the case.

Not sure why they can only do an extra 30. Think it's possibly to do with event management, so policing and residents etc, rather than cricketing considerations.

Both Bairstow and Woakes on 79. I reckon the declaration will come should both get to a century. By then the lead will be well in excess of 200.

Woakes looks like he wants that century before the weather comes in

Gooseberry wrote:Fantastic stuff by these two...time may become a factor again though. Theres a good chance play will end early today with rain coming in, and tomorrow is likely to be a right off.  The forecast for Monday has got a lot better ...but England are only leaving themselves a day to bowl India out without the perfect conditions they had in the first innings for Anderson. Overall though Englands controlled aggression has payed dividends in this test and theyve given themselves a strong chance of winning a test that had draw written all over it.

The main question is how many overs do we expect to be bowled in the remainder of the game. Ignoring today (Samson has just said 33 overs left to be bowled today!), we've got 196 overs to be bowled Sunday and Monday, which is more than enough time to bowl India out. Even if we write off Sunday and consider we rarely get all the overs in, we should still get 90 on Monday.

If England need all 90 overs to bowl them out, India will score about 300-odd, so England's 150-lead won't be enough. If they declared, we didn't get rain tomorrow and India batted well, England could be facing a difficult chase with two spinners coming in.

Bairstow and Woakes are scoring quickly, so I'd leave them in to get all the runs we'll need to win this game. I'd consider a declaration when the lead got above 200 if there was a decent bit of cloud cover and we fancied 3 or 4 wickets before close. But if there's no great assistance for the bowlers, just bat through and see what we get on Sunday. If we start losing a lot of time, then we can immediately declare and get into them in between rain delays on Sunday and then look to finish the job on Monday. If the sun is out again, then get the lead up to 250/300 and then declare. It might be overkill, but the modern way is to pile the runs on and let the batsmen play in a hopeless cause with aggressive fields throughout, rather than offer a sniff to give yourself more time to get the win.

The incentive for these two is if you don’t score fast, you aren’t getting those hundreds. Fascinating watch now as the two men at the crease play against both the opposition and their captain’s desire to declare.

Gooseberry wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:In home conditions Woakes is almost a must pick. Averages nearly 50 with the bat and 22 with the ball. If only he could do something similar when we go overseas

Isnt that the issue with everyone?

If we good take some cloud, grass and the dukes ball then England would be number one.

And for all this series is heartening in terms of results its done nothing for Englands long term development to cover the known issues.
They still dont have a top 3, most of their side is batting a place too high, they cant play quality spin or genuine fast bowling, their seamers need the dukes ball ( and a bit of cloud and grass), their only fast bowler isnt that fast and is rubbish, and they don't have a spinner worth picking on their bowling.

If anything doing OK every summer just continues to make it harder to make the investments and fundamental changes in the domestic game and England  development pathways to address that.

Currans done great with his chances too, but does anyone think he'll offer a real threat on typical Asian or Aussie pitches?


But maybe thats just me being pessimistic....enjoying this stand for now.

Indian pitches turn. Australian pitches bounce and carry. Our pitches seam and swing. If they're not trying to vary their pitches, we shouldn't change ours. Let's take full advantage of our home series to win in our conditions.

We need to improve our away form, but longer tours with better preparation would be better than sacrificing our home tests. Sending young players to experience more conditions in foreign leagues may also help.

A 200 lead would be more than ample but should both these continue to hunt down centuries then leave them to achieve them. Either way the first innings lead will be 200+. A few balls are keeping low also which helps bowlers plus it may look benign just now (the pitch) but with a new nut in Anderson, Broad and Woakes hands I would be surprised if they couldn't prize out a wicket or three before close. India could be 50 for 3 (still 150 behind) and there would be no winning from there in my opinion.