Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

So we made it to the end of the 2017/18 season.  We've seen/endured the first year of Bernard Jackman's plan.  I think most of us have been through a rollercoaster of emotions, similar to previous seasons but perhaps even more so this season given the new injection of life and investment into the Dragons.  First there was the hope - the new coaches, some new players, the new pitch, new chairman, new cash injection.  Then we started to stumble - it's all down to the new coach and getting used to the new systems, we said.  Then came the face plant and the realisation that this trend was going to carry on for the whole season - a couple of wins in the league, a few in Europe, a lot of spankings, not many losing bonus points.  Very poor return.  The hope turned to despair and BJ's methods were being questioned.  Then the hope comes again with the announcement of new signings ('stellar' signings, compared to previous years!) and the assurance that the 1st year of the plan was always going to be difficult and that year 2 would be the one to judge BJ on.....  

So.......on to year 2 (2018/19).  Where are we?  What are our expectations (realistically)?  What's the best team we can put out on paper and how competitive will it be?  For a number of years we've been stuffed in the league so seem to try to get some solace from a decent showing in the Euro 2nd tier comp.  However, should we forget about Europe and try to put all of our focus on the league?  I think so.

Transfers - we've lost more than we've gained, although the quality of the transfers in could/should be better than those leaving.  But I'm worried we'll be thin on the ground when the inevitable injuries hit.

Players In: = 14
Jordan Williams from England Bristol Bears
Rhodri Williams from England Bristol Bears
Ross Moriarty from England Gloucester
Rhodri Davies from England Rotherham Titans
Richard Hibbard from England Gloucester
Huw Taylor from England Worcester Warriors
Josh Lewis from England Bath
Ryan Bevington from England Bristol Bears
Aaron Jarvis from France Clermont
Dafydd Howells from Wales Ospreys
Tiaan Loots from Wales RGC 1404
Jacob Botica from Wales RGC 1404
Rhys Lawrence from England Ealing Trailfinders
Brandon Nansen from France

Players Out: - =21
Sarel Pretorius to South Africa Southern Kings
Phil Price to Wales Scarlets
Scott Andrews to Wales Neath
Luke Garrett to Wales Neath
Adam Hughes retired
Pat Howard to England Ealing Trailfinders
Rhys Buckley to Wales Bargoed
Barney Nightingale to Wales Bargoed
Keagan Bale to Wales Bargoed
Angus O'Brien to Wales Scarlets
Nicky Thomas to Wales Scarlets (return from short-term loan)
Dorian Jones to France Angoulême
Charlie Davies to England Northampton Saints
Lloyd Lewis to Wales Pontypool
Sam Beard to New Zealand Canterbury
Sam Hobbs released
Thomas Davies released
Liam Belcher released
Ashley Sweet released
Robson Blake released
Carl Meyer released

I'll try to update the Ins and Outs as we go.

[Guest]

Dee starting, Wainright at 6, Griffiths at 7, some beef and impact on the bench. It’s like he’s been reading 606v2!

Dragons for the win!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Zebre beat the Kings last weekend. If we have hopes of doing anything other that scudding along the bottom of the conference this season, we need to beat them too. (Or them two!)

[Guest]

Zebre beat the Kings last weekend. If we have hopes of doing anything other that scudding along the bottom of the conference this season, we need to beat them too. (Or them two!)

I watched that game on Freesports. Zebre looked quite handy out wide. Their Italian winger with the ponytail caused Kings lots of problems. Plus they had a few PI guys who blasted through and caused trouble. Not going to be easy (beating Zebre). But I'd hope we could beat Kings because, as you say and as I alluded to the other day, if we don't beat teams like this then who do we beat if we don't want to end the year on zero wins?

[RiscaGame]

Dee starting, Wainright at 6, Griffiths at 7, some beef and impact on the bench. It’s like he’s been reading 606v2!

Dragons for the win!

Yeah, the only thing Uncle Bernard hasn't listened to is me asking for Amos 15

But regardless, we need to put our back three in space, wherever they play. I expect tomorrow will be a pretty tense occasion and a pretty scrappy, but welcome win. I don't think the favourites tag will sit all that well with us and it is a lot of pressure on us now, after the pretty poor performance last week.

[mikey_dragon]

I’m sorry but this Dragons team looks poorly coached. It’s still Jackman out for me.

[Brendan]

You got the win so are up and running but not getting the TBP and allowing them get two Bps at the end was not good.
Will be interesting to see if the confidence will help

[Luckless Pedestrian]

More positives than negatives this week, the most significant one being that we actually won a league game. We lost our way after going 17-0 up and I don't know if that was because of the yellow card, but it was far too close for comfort.

In terms of our attack, we look dangerous enough on the counter, but otherwise there's still a serious lack of imagination. Nansen made an impact when he came on, but I'd like to know why Landman's still playing for Newport RFC when Matthew Screech had another ordinary game as far as I could see (including another knock on).

The Kings had a great move off an attacking lineout where the outside half (I think) switched it to the hooker and they'd have scored if the blindside winger hadn't knocked it on. We need to a) work on our blindside defence, and b) nick that move.

[munkian]

Even without the 'W' it was a much more positive performance. I think the harsh yellow shell shocked us a bit which isn't acceptable.

There's rumours that Landman has had a few arguments with coaches but its just hearsay at the moment.

I was shouting for Amos at 15 but he and JW linked up nicely this game. Nansen and Hibbard are great impact subs for us.

I'd like to see Knoyle start this week, Williams' passing and box kicks are too erratic - its impossible to get moves going when hes passing to players' feet or above their heads.

Our backrow is well tidy but still bullied a bit at the breakdown.

Dixon needs to be used better than just crashball runner.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It doesn't matter that he's had some arguments with coaches if his replacement is a worse player than he is. He turned down a move to the Scarlets and his reward is exile to the Premiership. Great man management.

Speaking of the Scarlets (and man management), I see Phil Price had a good game for them against Leinster on the weekend. Showed up well against Furlong and Porter in the scrum. Of course we got rid of him.

[munkian]

It doesn't matter that he's had some arguments with coaches if his replacement is a worse player than he is. He turned down a move to the Scarlets and his reward is exile to the Premiership. Great man management.

Speaking of the Scarlets (and man management), I see Phil Price had a good game for them against Leinster on the weekend. Showed up well against Furlong and Porter in the scrum. Of course we got rid of him.

Completely agree on Landman, Screech may come good again though.  I thought Price was just on loan to be fair ?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I don't think he is. I read an interview with him a while ago and he was scathing of the way he was treated last season. He was given a match and a half to prove himself and then he didn't get a look in, something like that. They might even have been friendlies, I can't remember.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Here it is:

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/16204679.Stalwart_Price_angered_by_bitter_end_to_Dragons_service/

[munkian]

Ah yes, remember this now, cheers.

[mikey_dragon]

It doesn't matter that he's had some arguments with coaches if his replacement is a worse player than he is. He turned down a move to the Scarlets and his reward is exile to the Premiership. Great man management.

Speaking of the Scarlets (and man management), I see Phil Price had a good game for them against Leinster on the weekend. Showed up well against Furlong and Porter in the scrum. Of course we got rid of him.

When Price came on every scrum went to ground. Before that moment both teams had their best front rows competing against each other and actually wanting to scrum. Price is still crap so stop peddling the myth again.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It doesn't matter that he's had some arguments with coaches if his replacement is a worse player than he is. He turned down a move to the Scarlets and his reward is exile to the Premiership. Great man management.

Speaking of the Scarlets (and man management), I see Phil Price had a good game for them against Leinster on the weekend. Showed up well against Furlong and Porter in the scrum. Of course we got rid of him.

When Price came on every scrum went to ground. Before that moment both teams had their best front rows competing against each other and actually wanting to scrum. Price is still crap so stop peddling the myth again.

Forgive me, I should have said 'I hear Phil Price had a good game.' I've heard a few people including a rugby journalist say he did. But I didn't actually see it myself.

(Well technically, I should have said 'I read Phil Price had a good game,' but that's taking it too far. I think 'hear' and 'read' are sufficiently interchangeable.)

[Stone Motif]

Without wanting to drag this thread further into Turkistan, the Scarlets won 6/6 of their scrums on their own put in, compared to Leinsters 5/6 win rate. If the Scarlets were collapsing scrums and getting tatered statty-boll+cks at the ESPN missed it

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Something tells me we won't fare as well against Leinster on the weekend....

[munkian]

At least Jackman has said he hasn't any plans to change the team around.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Yeah I saw that. It's just as well. He's got the squad he wanted (within reason), he needs to show what he's made of as a coach now.

[munkian]

Yeah I saw that. It's just as well. He's got the squad he wanted (within reason), he needs to show what he's made of as a coach now.

Yupp. I have very little faith in him though. We have zero structure - no one can say what our playing style is, players look confused and get isolated.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Agreed.

[Stone Motif]

Tyler Morgan out. He's going to be our Ashley Beck isn't he? Fantastic player too snappy for modern rugby

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Did they say how long he's out for?

I'm not too upset about it if it means Adam Warren gets more game time.

EDIT: Just saw they hope he'll be back next month.

[Stone Motif]

Did they say how long he's out for?

I'm not too upset about it if it means Adam Warren gets more game time.

EDIT: Just saw they hope he'll be back next month.

it's a player who just seems to rarely be able to string three games together. Warrens a great 'glue' player but Tyler could be a rolls Royce of a centre if he could keep himself on the pitch.

[mikey_dragon]

It doesn't matter that he's had some arguments with coaches if his replacement is a worse player than he is. He turned down a move to the Scarlets and his reward is exile to the Premiership. Great man management.

Speaking of the Scarlets (and man management), I see Phil Price had a good game for them against Leinster on the weekend. Showed up well against Furlong and Porter in the scrum. Of course we got rid of him.

When Price came on every scrum went to ground. Before that moment both teams had their best front rows competing against each other and actually wanting to scrum. Price is still crap so stop peddling the myth again.

Forgive me, I should have said 'I hear Phil Price had a good game.' I've heard a few people including a rugby journalist say he did. But I didn't actually see it myself.

(Well technically, I should have said 'I read Phil Price had a good game,' but that's taking it too far. I think 'hear' and 'read' are sufficiently interchangeable.)

Well at least you’ve cleared it up this time, instead of having a whinge. I’m not entirely sure what happened in the scrum collapses but they only went down when Price came on. This myth that he’s come good is going to remain a.... well, a myth.

I watched Price get shoved around by teams’ 2nd and 3rd choice props for years, nothing short of depressing. He and O’Brien are out west to provide cover, can’t see them doing anything of note in the near future, but given how Lewis is shaping up we may as well held onto AOB and saved ourselves the bother. I think Leinster will put 50 past Dragons on this form, possibly 70 if they decide to reintroduce all their internationals...

[Guest]

Most people know that a prop is only as good as the players around him. It’s extremely rare that a prop can singlehandedly and consistently dominate the opposition scrum (or even hold parity) when those around him are rubbish. So it’s no surprise that someone like Price can go out West and look OK when he was surrounded by weak locks for years at the Dragons, and often underpowered other props and hookers. He’s now got quality internationals around him. Hell, I’d probably manage to keep a few scrums steady with those players around me. 1 relatively weak link in a decent 8 man scrum is not going to make a huge amount of difference. But in a weak scrum he’s going to struggle, and it’s the props that bare the brunt of criticism as they’re the ones that go down first. But it’s symptomatic of weaknesses in other areas of the scrum too. This is why I’m always reluctant to believe that player ‘x’, who the Dragons often ship in during the off season to shore up the scrum, will make much difference at all even if they’ve looked decent at a previous club with a good pack. And we’ve seen that happens time and again over the years at RP.

[Stone Motif]

Half back sensation Zane Kirchner goes on loan to Bristol

[munkian]

That'll free up some cash next season.

[Stone Motif]

Without wanting to drag this thread further into Turkistan, the Scarlets won 6/6 of their scrums on their own put in, compared to Leinsters 5/6 win rate. If the Scarlets were collapsing scrums and getting tatered statty-boll+cks at the ESPN missed it

Not great reading if you're a fan of Mikey Dragon's scrum analysis (or a bad headed former Ireland hooker/magic beans salesman for that matter).

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/unheralded-rugby-player-who-let-15140523

Five scrums and no change out of Price for Tadhg Furlong

[munkian]

Its an Irish prop - they're all about the counter ruck hi-light reel.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Without wanting to drag this thread further into Turkistan, the Scarlets won 6/6 of their scrums on their own put in, compared to Leinsters 5/6 win rate. If the Scarlets were collapsing scrums and getting tatered statty-boll+cks at the ESPN missed it

Not great reading if you're a fan of Mikey Dragon's scrum analysis (or a bad headed former Ireland hooker/magic beans salesman for that matter).

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/unheralded-rugby-player-who-let-15140523

Five scrums and no change out of Price for Tadhg Furlong

I hear Phil Price had a good game.

[Guest]

Or read he had a good game, LP?!

[mikey_dragon]

Without wanting to drag this thread further into Turkistan, the Scarlets won 6/6 of their scrums on their own put in, compared to Leinsters 5/6 win rate. If the Scarlets were collapsing scrums and getting tatered statty-boll+cks at the ESPN missed it

Not great reading if you're a fan of Mikey Dragon's scrum analysis (or a bad headed former Ireland hooker/magic beans salesman for that matter).

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/unheralded-rugby-player-who-let-15140523

Five scrums and no change out of Price for Tadhg Furlong

WOL? Desperate times calls for desperate measures I guess.

[mikey_dragon]

Kirchner on loan when we could do with that cover in the back 3... Another nail in the coffin for BJ I feel. As I previously alluded to, Sexton et al are set to feature against Dragons. I think we'd have done well to get a score the way Jackman has us playing right now.

[Stone Motif]

Without wanting to drag this thread further into Turkistan, the Scarlets won 6/6 of their scrums on their own put in, compared to Leinsters 5/6 win rate. If the Scarlets were collapsing scrums and getting tatered statty-boll+cks at the ESPN missed it

Not great reading if you're a fan of Mikey Dragon's scrum analysis (or a bad headed former Ireland hooker/magic beans salesman for that matter).

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/unheralded-rugby-player-who-let-15140523

Five scrums and no change out of Price for Tadhg Furlong

WOL? Desperate times calls for desperate measures I guess.

Except I, y'know, also quoted the match stats above which proved you were talking boll0cks. Back on ignore you go me old chum, more time.on the naughty step obviously needed.

[mikey_dragon]

Oh Stone you keyboard warrior you know that hurts my feelings

Don't see how I was talking BS? I disagreed that Price did well in his 16 minute (WOL) cameo. Up to the point of him entering the field of play both front-rows wanted to scrum and it was a good contest. Coincidence? I think not. Scrums went down for 9 seasons at the Dragons with Price starting. Keep trying to perpetuate the myth with WOL as your source if you like, just makes you look stupid. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery they say, does LD know you're imitating him?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Excellent article here from Chris Kirwan.

'Wins (in Ireland) aren’t generally expected but meek defeats are damaging, so in many ways this weekend is the biggest gauge so far of whether the Dragons are on the right track under Jackman.

'Round one was a huge disappointment; there is no great shame in them losing to Benetton but the performance was horrid.

'Round two was also underwhelming; they got the monkey off their back with a first PRO14 win since last September but the display against Southern Kings had large portions of shoddiness.

Both games were at Rodney Parade, so it will be something of a relief to have a ‘nothing to lose’ away game on Saturday night.

'Yet this is a clash that will lay the Dragons bare, a trip to face the champions on their own patch (their first RDS game since lifting the PRO14 and Champions Cup trophies) is one that will test their character and brutally expose any deficiencies.

'If Premier Sports subscribers are switching off at half-time because it isn’t a contest then the heat will be back on Jackman after the respite provided by the Kings win.'

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/16855858.chris-kirwan-fighting-the-irish-is-the-least-we-expect-from-dragons/

[munkian]

He's easily the best rugby journalist in Wales.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I wish he had more successes to write about! Genuinely. It's bad enough being a fan but imagine having to report on yet another defeat.

[munkian]

Cuddy set to face Leinster according to Evans

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/16860414.lewis-evans-return-of-the-clamp-a-timely-boost-for-dublin/?ref=eb

[Guest]

Cuddy set to face Leinster according to Evans

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/16860414.lewis-evans-return-of-the-clamp-a-timely-boost-for-dublin/?ref=eb

Nice piece from Evans. Interesting to hear that Cudd played for Bargoed on the weekend against Newport. I thought Bargoed was in another region (Blues possible) and therefore not one of the Dragons clubs? Or maybe we share parts of Caerphilly with Blues?

[munkian]

I believe we do, we played Blues in Caerphilthy as a 'home game' last season.

[Brendan]

I think for this game Dragons just need to not give up. Watched Connacht v Zebre last week (no EIR) and while Zebre were outplayed they kept trying and scored a late try and almost got a lengthy of the field counter attack but were stopped about 20m short.

It's games like this were players can make names by trying hard and being seen to be giving their all. A few handbags in the first few minutes to put Leinster off also works. This game is all about attitude.

[munkian]

I think for this game Dragons just need to not give up.  Watched Connacht v Zebre last week (no EIR) and while Zebre were outplayed they kept trying and scored a late try and almost got a lengthy of the field counter attack but were stopped about 20m short.

It's games like this were players can make names by trying hard and being seen to be giving their all.  A few handbags in the first few minutes to put Leinster off also works. This game is all about attitude.

Moriarty - Hold my beer

[SecretFly]

Handbags put Leinster off? I think it charges their batteries. I love a bit of handbags in the morning.

[munkian]

[munkian]

Cudd swaps for Griffiths (bench) Warren for Tyler M, Fairbrother for Brown (bench)

[munkian]

Unfortunately Leinster have gone for the wanky team announcement video

[SecretFly]

Ladyboys always got more style and glitter and things. Don't be jealous now. Were the tap dancers good?

[munkian]

Ladyboys always got more style and glitter and things.  Don't be jealous now.  Were the tap dancers good?

Riverdancers mun

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