The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

by Pot Hale Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

A new thread to continue the tracking of where the multi-country Championship is heading.

With the TV deals done for Ireland, UK, Italy and South Africa, PRO14 quietly announced their deal for tapping other broadcast markets around the world with rights partner, RDA, who already have the Heineken Cup and English Premiership in their stable.

Here’s extract from what the PRO14 press release said:

Guinness PRO14 is the first rugby union championship to host clubs from the traditional rugby powers in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres, with teams from South Africa competing against the top sides from Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy.....

....RDA’s focus will be on growing revenues in core markets as well as increasing the Guinness PRO14’s global footprint. Current media agreements in host markets secured by PRO14 include eir sport in Ireland, Premier Sports in the UK and Super Sport in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Martin Anayi, CEO, Guinness PRO14 commented: “It’s an incredible time in the Guinness PRO14 with our expansion into South Africa, the success of our clubs in Europe and the confirmation of our new broadcast partners in Ireland and the UK. Every season the biggest names in world rugby take to the pitch in our Championship guided by some of the sharpest minds in the game providing imaginative, high-intensity match-ups which make for compulsive viewing.

“The Guinness PRO14 is one of the most talked about rugby properties in the world right now and it’s the perfect time to join forces with RDA who have a track record of success when it comes to sports media rights. With brands such as Premiership Rugby, Champions Cup and European Challenge Cup in their portfolio we can ensure that rugby fans will feel a part of the Guinness PRO14 action no matter where they are.”

...,Richard Dennis, CEO, RDA commented: “The Guinness PRO14 is an action-packed tournament. With a global-playing base of 300 players capped at full international level, and 100 top players from countries such as New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and the Pacific Islands, PRO14 will have a worldwide appeal to rugby fans. It also boasts some impressive stats, 1.3 million attendees last season and games averaging 5.9 tries, so it’s no surprise scoring has risen for the fifth year in a row. We’re very much excited to be working with the Guinness PRO14.”

RDA adds the Guinness PRO14 to a strong rugby portfolio covering the newly sponsored Champions Cup, European Challenge Cup, Premiership Rugby, Betfred Super League and the RFL International Test Series.

Anayi in another pre-season general interview said that PRO16 would be the ideal size for the Championship that would allow less regular season games to be played and avoid test windows. It’s likely the final two spots would go to two more SA teams - likely from Super Rugby before the start of its new Sanzaar TV contract in 2020.

Anayi also mentioned that they were bringing in a new programme to allow them employ professional referees directly on their elite refs panel.

by marty2086 Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:28 pm

Question: I’m keen to know my team’s Guinness PRO14 fixtures as soon as I can in order to set my calendar for the campaign ahead, is it possible to release the fixtures any earlier?

Answer: There is a huge amount of work that goes into assembling the Guinness PRO14 fixture list and we know that our clubs and their fans are eager to see it as soon as they can so they can plan for the new season.

Naturally, efficiencies are introduced to speed up the process, but there is a long list of criteria that our fixture list needs to fulfil and there are a wide range of factors that impact on the time it takes to put it all together.

Q: What kind of factors do you have to consider?

A: All of our clubs and broadcasters are major stakeholders in this process and we have to balance their needs as best we can in a way that is beneficial to the success of the tournament.

Firstly, the Guinness PRO14 is an international tournament which spans the UK, Ireland, Italy and South Africa and in almost every ‘out of country fixture’ our teams must travel by air. This means the logistics are far greater for our teams than they are for competitions which take place within just one country.

Tours to and from South Africa also require a 7-day turnaround and, in many instances, teams are playing two games per tour meaning that these fixtures cannot span a break in game rounds (gaps for internationals or European games). Beyond that, we have a number of clubs who have traditional kick-off times, i.e. Fridays at 19:35, that we work hard to maintain.

Some teams are based in cities and others in more rural areas, as such each club has travel routes unique to them which can impact on how fans get to the game and what kick-off times are more likely to make it easier for them to attend.

Two of our clubs (Ospreys and Dragons) share their venues with football clubs which can create availability clashes so to avoid this, we must also wait for the Football League fixtures to come out in June to ensure venue availability is not affected where possible. Other potential conflicts can arise after the Football League TV schedule is finalized, hence why Ospreys have some fixtures still listed as TBC

Other venues across the Championship may also be impacted by entertainment and sporting events taking place in their cities at different times of the year.

In Italy, evening kick-offs are preferred at the beginning of the season to avoid playing in high temperatures and historically those clubs have been keen to play away from home more often in the early parts of the season.

Time zones also come into play with Italy and South Africa one hour ahead of the UK and Ireland. In the winter months (October 28 to March 31) South Africa are two hours ahead of the UK and Ireland.

Additionally, around certain fixtures (including derbies) some clubs may request to use a different venue as their home ground. Again, these venues may have operations criteria that impact on the timing of kick-offs and this also has to be taken into account.

Q: When do you start planning the fixture list for the following season?

A: The groundwork begins towards the end of the current season when a list of criteria, more extensive than listed above, is placed into a software program and a rough draft is created. Tours to and from South Africa must be balanced up against the dates for European Rounds and International weekends. We must also take into account that December is mostly a non-playing month in South Africa and as such the Toyota Cheetahs and Southern Kings have their derby fixtures moved to January and/or February.

Q: How are games selected for television?

A: Once the provisional fixture list has been shared with the teams and requests or clashes have been flagged, the fixtures are sent to our broadcasters ahead of a selection meeting. Generally, the broadcaster hosting the fixture (Premier Sports in the UK, eir sport & TG4 in Republic of Ireland or Super Sport in South Africa) will select a time slot for the game and PRO14 Rugby will work to ensure that (where possible) it meets the traditional KO preferences of the home team.

Once this process is complete the updated fixture list is distributed to our clubs to allow them time to book their travel and accommodation before the fixtures are made public which would affect the costs involved. Once all clubs have confirmed that their arrangements are in place then PRO14 Rugby can publish the fixture list.

Q: How can you speed up this process in future seasons?

A: Over the past decade the Championship fixtures have always been published in the second or third week in July. The exception was last year when the South African expansion meant the fixtures could not be released until early August.

The primary factor around the release date is ensuring that all of our clubs have their travel and accommodation booked before the fixtures go public. We understand that supporters and clubs are always keen to have this information as early as possible and we will always aim to get the fixtures published finalised as quickly as we can.

Q: I can see there are some Sunday games scheduled across the first 17 rounds, why is this?

A: The primary slots for Guinness PRO14 games are Friday evenings and Saturday afternoon and evenings, however, in order to avoid clashes with international games at certain points of the season it is necessary to play games on Sundays.

Additionally, clubs who share their ground football teams can end up with fixture clashes and although we have worked to avoid as often as possible there are some parts of the calendar where it was not possible to do so.

by RugbyFan100 Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:30 pm

marty2086 wrote:

A: The primary slots for Guinness PRO14 games are Friday evenings and Saturday afternoon and evenings, however, in order to avoid clashes with international games at certain points of the season it is necessary to play games on Sundays.

Additionally, clubs who share their ground football teams can end up with fixture clashes and although we have worked to avoid as often as possible there are some parts of the calendar where it was not possible to do so.

[/quote]

What a load of baloney.

by carpet baboon Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:47 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:We have Zebre at home on a Sunday afternoon!

Woo-hoo.

What a league.

Who have Ulster, Munster and Leinster got on a Sunday at home?

I may be wrong, but I counted none.

Funny how that happens, eh?

Just a coincidence I'm sure.

Well this just proves beyond all doubt that the league is a fix just for the Irish.

by marty2086 Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:08 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:We have Zebre at home on a Sunday afternoon!

Woo-hoo.

What a league.

Who have Ulster, Munster and Leinster got on a Sunday at home?

I may be wrong, but I counted none.

Funny how that happens, eh?

Just a coincidence I'm sure.

Well this just proves beyond all doubt that the league is a fix just for the Irish.

It's not like the league have explained how they reach decisions, I mean it's not like the Irish provinces either own their own ground or are primary tenants and have no issues around ground sharing

by RugbyFan100 Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:10 pm

marty2086 wrote:

It's not like the league have explained how they reach decisions, I mean it's not like the Irish provinces either own their own ground or are primary tenants and have no issues around ground sharing

Do the Scarlets, Kings, Cheetahs and Cardiff "ground share with football teams" as the Pro14 put it?

by PhilBB Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:10 pm

marty2086 wrote:
It's not like the league have explained how they reach decisions, I mean it's not like the Irish provinces either own their own ground or are primary tenants and have no issues around ground sharing

I wonder how many Sunday games are because of the reasons you've given.

Plus, of course, none of those reasons stand up to scrutiny when there are easy options to change the scheduling to avoid any such issues.

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:11 pm

Thus far, only 9 games to be shown on S4C between rounds 1 and 17.

What a way to keep the embers burning on an already struggling fire in Wales. The Pro14 is already fighting for it's life here in Wales, by the time this new TV deal is up, people will be asking, what's a Pro14 ?

It is going to be a slow agonising death.

But at least the Irish will have 75 games to watch in the same timescale. Via EIR sports and the packages they get.

by PhilBB Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:22 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Thus far, only 9 games to be shown on S4C between rounds 1 and 17.

What a way to keep the embers burning on an already struggling fire in Wales. The Pro14 is already fighting for it's life here in Wales, by the time this new TV deal is up, people will be asking, what's a Pro14 ?

It is going to be a slow agonising death.

But at least the Irish will have 75 games to watch in the same timescale. Via EIR sports and the packages they get.

You've miscounted

https://www.pro14rugby.org/match-centre/fixtures/

I counted 11 S4C games before the end of 2018

by carpet baboon Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:23 pm

I wonder if any of the "it's all for the Irish" brigade of simpletons have asked the Welsh clubs why they ask to play on a Sunday?

by PhilBB Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:25 pm

carpet baboon wrote:I wonder if any of the "it's all for the Irish" brigade of simpletons have asked the Welsh clubs why they ask to play on a Sunday?

I wonder why the brigade of simpletons who can't see the Irish bias have assumed that Welsh clubs asked to play on Sundays.

by Guest Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:26 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Thus far, only 9 games to be shown on S4C between rounds 1 and 17.

What a way to keep the embers burning on an already struggling fire in Wales. The Pro14 is already fighting for it's life here in Wales, by the time this new TV deal is up, people will be asking, what's a Pro14 ?

It is going to be a slow agonising death.

But at least the Irish will have 75 games to watch in the same timescale. Via EIR sports and the packages they get.

LD, I know it looks like I’m constantly jumping on your posts, and I agree that less FTA means less exposure, but why do you say the PRO14 is already struggling in Wales and fighting for its life? Seems to be going fine to me. Doesn’t look or seem worse than any time over the last few years so ‘dying’ seems an odd claim. Or do you mean that you predict it will be dying by going forward???

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:29 pm

ROUND ONE

Cardiff Blues v Leinster, Aug 31, 7:35pm, Cardiff Arms Park, Premier Sports

Ospreys v Edinburgh, Aug 31, 7:35pm, Liberty Stadium, Premier Sports

Connacht v Glasgow, Sept 1, 3:00pm, The Sportsground, TG4

Munster v Cheetahs, Sept 1, 5:15pm, TBC, eir Sport

Ulster v Scarlets, Sept 1, 5:15pm, Kingspan Stadium, Premier Sports

Dragons v Benetton, Sept 1, 7:35pm, Rodney Parade, Premier Sports

Zebre v Southern Kings, Sept 1, 8:35pm, Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi, Italy

ROUND TWO

Glasgow v Munster, Sept 7, 7:35pm, Scotstoun, Premier Sports

Ulster v Edinburgh, Sept 7, 7:35pm, Kingspan Stadium, Premier Sports

Dragons v Southern Kings, Sept 8, 3:00pm, Rodney Parade, Premier Sports

Connacht v Zebre, Sept 8, 5:15pm, The Sportsground, TG4

Ospreys v Cheetahs, Sept 8, 5:30pm, Liberty Stadium, S4C

Scarlets v Leinster, Sept 8, 7:35pm, Parc y Scarlets, Premier Sports

Benetton v Cardiff Blues, Sept 8, 8:35pm, Stadio Monigo, Italy

ROUND THREE

Edinburgh v Connacht, Sept 14, 7:35pm, Murrayfield, Premier Sports

Munster v Ospreys, Sept 14, 7:35pm, TBC, eir Sport

Leinster v Dragons, Sept 15, 5:15pm, RDS Arena, eir Sport

Scarlets v Benetton, Sept 15, 5:15pm, Parc y Scarlets, S4C

Cheetahs v Glasgow, Sept 15, 7:30pm, Toyota Stadium, Super Sport

Zebre v Cardiff Blues, Sept 15, 8:35pm, Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi, Premier Sports

Southern Kings v Ulster, Sept 16, 2:15pm, Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Super Sport

ROUND FOUR

Cheetahs v Ulster, Sept 21, 7:15pm, Toyota Stadium, Super Sport

Cardiff Blues v Munster, Sept 21, 7:35pm, Cardiff Arms Park, Premier Sports

Southern Kings v Glasgow, Sept 22, 3:00pm, Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Super Sport

Connacht v Scarlets, Sept 22, 5:15pm, The Sportsground, TG4

Dragons v Zebre, Sept 22, 5:15pm, Rodney Parade, S4C

Leinster v Edinburgh, Sept 22, 7:35pm, RDS Arena, eir Sport

Ospreys v Benetton, Sept 22, 7:35pm, Liberty Stadium, Premier Sports

ROUND FIVE

Cardiff Blues v Cheetahs, Sept 28, 7:35pm, Cardiff Arms Parks, Premier Sports

Edinburgh v Benetton, Sept 28, 7:35pm, Murrayfield, Premier Sports

Zebre v Ospreys, Sept 29, 4:00pm, Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi, Italy

Connacht v Leinster, Sept 29, 5:15pm, The Sportsground, TG4

Scarlets v Southern Kings, Sept 29, 6:30pm, Parc y Scarlets, S4C

Glasgow v Dragons, Sept 29, 7:35pm, Scotstoun, Premier Sports

Munster v Ulster, Sept 29, 7:35pm, Thomond Park, eir Sport

ROUND SIX

Edinburgh v Cheetahs, Oct 5, 7:35pm, Murrayfield, Premier Sports

Glasgow v Zebre, Oct 5, 7:35pm, Scotstoun, Premier Sports

Ulster v Connacht, Oct 5, 7:35pm, Kingspan Stadium, Premier Sports

Scarlets v Ospreys, Oct 6, 3:00pm, Parc y Scarlets, Premier Sports

Dragons v Cardiff Blues, Oct 6, 5:15pm, Rodney Parade, Premier Sports

Leinster v Munster, Oct 6, 6:00pm, Aviva Stadium, eir Sport

Benetton v Southern Kings, Oct 6, 8:00pm, Stadio Monigo, Italy

ROUND SEVEN

Southern Kings v Scarlets, Oct 26, 7:00pm, Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Super Sport

Ulster v Dragons, Oct 26, 7:55pm, Kingspan Stadium, Premier Sports

Zebre v Edinburgh, Oct 26, 8:00pm, Stadio Sergi Lanfranchi, Italy

Benetton v Leinster, Oct 27, 4:00pm, Stadio Monigo, Italy

Munster v Glasgow, Oct 27, 5:15pm, Thomond Park, eir Sport

Cheetahs v Cardiff Blues, Oct 27, 7:15pm, Toyota Stadium, Super Sport

Ospreys v Connacht, Oct 28, TBC, Liberty Stadium, Premier Sports

ROUND EIGHT

Edinburgh v Scarlets, Nov 2, 7:35pm, Murrayfield, Premier Sports

Ospreys v Glasgow, Nov 2, 7:35pm, Liberty Stadium, Premier Sports

Benetton v Ulster, Nov 3, 4:00pm, Stadio Monigo, Italy

Connacht v Dragons, Nov 3, 5:15pm, The Sportsground, TG4

Cardiff Blues v Zebre, Nov 4, 2:45pm, Cardiff Arms Park, Premier Sports

Southern Kings v Leinster, Nov 4, 2:45pm, Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Super Sport

Cheetahs v Munster, Nov 4, 4:45pm, Toyota Stadium, Super Sport

ROUND NINE

Glasgow v Cardiff Blues, Nov 23, 7:35pm, Scotstoun, Premier Sports

Leinster v Ospreys, Nov 23, 7:35pm, RDS Arena, eir Sport

Scarlets v Ulster, Nov 23, 7:35pm, Parc y Scarlets, Premier Sports

Cheetahs v Benetton, Nov 24, 2:30pm, Toyota Stadium, Super Sport

Dragons v Edinburgh, Nov 25, 2:00pm, Rodney Parade, S4C

Southern Kings v Connacht, Nov 25, 3:00pm, Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Super Sport

Zebre v Munster, Nov 25, 4:30pm, Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi, Italy

ROUND 10

Ospreys v Zebre, Nov 30, 7:35pm, Liberty Stadium, Premier Sports

Munster v Edinburgh, Nov 30, 7:35pm, Irish Independent Park, eir Sport

Ulster v Cardiff Blues, Dec 1, 3:00pm, Kingspan Stadium, Premier Sports

Cheetahs v Connacht, Dec 1, 5:00pm, Toyota Stadium, Super Sport

Glasgow v Scarlets, Dec 1, 5:15pm, Scotstoun, Premier Sports

Dragons v Leinster, Dec 1, 5:15pm, Rodney Parade, Premier Sports

Southern Kings v Benetton, Dec 1, 7:15pm, Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Super Sport

ROUND 11

Ulster v Munster, Dec 21, 7:35pm, Kingspan Stadium, Premier Sports

Ospreys v Scarlets, Dec 22, 3:00pm, Liberty Stadium, Premier Sports

Cardiff Blues v Dragons, Dec 22, 5:15pm, Cardiff Arms Park, S4C

Edinburgh v Glasgow, Dec 22, 5:15pm, Murrayfield, Premier Sports

Leinster v Connacht, Dec 22, 7:35pm, RDS Arena, eir Sport

Zebre v Benetton, Dec 22, TBC, Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi, Italy

ROUND 12

Connacht v Ulster, Dec 28, 7:35pm, The Sportsground, TG4

Glasgow v Edinburgh, Dec 29, 3:00pm, Scotstoun, Premier Sports

Munster v Leinster, Dec 29, 5:15pm, Thomond Park, eir Sport

Scarlets v Cardiff Blues, Dec 29, 5:15pm, Parc y Scarlets, Premier Sports

Benetton v Zebre, Dec 29, TBC, Stadio Monigo, Italy

Dragons v Ospreys, Dec 30, 3:00pm, Rodney Parade, S4C

ROUND 13

Benetton v Glasgow, Jan 5, 3:00pm, Stadio Monigo, Italy

Ospreys v Cardiff Blues, Jan 5, 3:00pm, Liberty Stadium, Premier Sports

Scarlets v Dragons, Jan 5, 5:15pm, Parc y Scarlets, Premier Sports

Leinster v Ulster, Jan 5, 5:15pm, RDS Arena, eir Sport

Connacht v Munster, Jan 5, 7:35pm, The Sportsground, TG4

Edinburgh v Southern Kings, Jan 5, 7:35pm, Murrayfield, Premier Sports

Zebre v Cheetahs, Jan 6, 2:00pm, Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi, Italy

ROUND 14

Glasgow v Ospreys, Jan 25, 7:35pm, Scotstoun, Premier Sports

Leinster v Scarlets, Jan 25, 7:35pm, RDS Arena, eir Sport

Ulster v Benetton, Jan 25, 7:35pm, Kingspan Stadium, Premier Sports

Cheetahs v Zebre, Jan 26, 3:00pm, Toyota Stadium, Super Sport

Dragons v Munster, Jan 26, 3:00pm, Rodney Parade, Premier Sports

Cardiff Blues v Connacht, Jan 26, 5:15pm, Cardiff Arms Park, S4C

Southern Kings v Edinburgh, Jan 26, 5:15pm, Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Super Sport

ROUND 15

Edinburgh v Dragons, Feb 15, 7:35pm, Murrayfield, Premier Sports

Munster v Southern Kings, Feb 15, 7:35pm, Irish Independent Park, eir Sport

Zebre v Leinster, Feb 16, 4:00pm, Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi, Italy

Connacht v Cheetahs, Feb 16, 5:30pm, The Sportsground, TG4

Benetton v Scarlets, Feb 16, 6:15pm, Stadio Monigo, Italy

Cardiff Blues v Glasgow, Feb 16, 7:35pm, Cardiff Arms Park, Premier Sports

Ospreys v Ulster, Feb 17, TBC, Liberty Stadium, Premier Sports

ROUND 16

Glasgow v Connacht, Feb 22, 7:35pm, Scotstoun, Premier Sports

Ospreys v Munster, Feb 22, 7:35pm, Liberty Stadium, Premier Sports

Leinster v Southern Kings, Feb 22, 7:55pm, RDS Arena, eir Sport

Benetton v Dragons, Feb 23, 2:00pm, Stadio Monigo, Italy

Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues, Feb 23, 7:35pm, Murrayfield, Premier Sports

Ulster v Zebre, Feb 23, 7:35pm, Kingspan Stadium, Premier Sports

Scarlets v Cheetahs, Feb 24, TBC, Parc y Scarlets, Premier Sports

ROUND 17

Leinster v Cheetahs, Mar 1, 7:35pm, RDS Arena, eir Sport

Connacht v Ospreys, Mar 2, 2:45pm, The Sportsground, TG4

Benetton v Edinburgh, Mar 2, 4:00pm, Stadio Monigo, Italy

Scarlets v Munster, Mar 2, 5:00pm, Parc y Scarlets, S4C

Zebre v Glasgow, Mar 2, 6:15pm, Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi, Italy

Cardiff Blues v Southern Kings, Mar 2, 7:35pm, Cardiff Arms Park, Premier Sports

Dragons v Ulster, Mar 3, 3:00pm, Rodney Parade, Premier Sports

I have put the S4C games in bold, 9 of them. All the rest are on the Irish channels. Rolling Eyes

by PhilBB Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:31 pm

https://www.pro14rugby.org/match-centre/fixtures/

by PhilBB Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:31 pm

For starters, Ulster vs Scarlets is on S4C, so Dowellais has the wrong information.

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:32 pm

The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Thus far, only 9 games to be shown on S4C between rounds 1 and 17.

What a way to keep the embers burning on an already struggling fire in Wales. The Pro14 is already fighting for it's life here in Wales, by the time this new TV deal is up, people will be asking, what's a Pro14 ?

It is going to be a slow agonising death.

But at least the Irish will have 75 games to watch in the same timescale. Via EIR sports and the packages they get.

LD, I know it looks like I’m constantly jumping on your posts, and I agree that less FTA means less exposure, but why do you say the PRO14 is already struggling in Wales and fighting for its life? Seems to be going fine to me. Doesn’t look or seem worse than any time over the last few years so ‘dying’ seems an odd claim. Or do you mean that you predict it will be doing going forward???

You honestly think the Pro14 is popular in Wales ? It might be in your neck of the woods, but travel further afield and you will see it is not so popular, it was gaining popularity, I will admit that, but this new TV deal will kill any momentum the Pro14 was gaining in Wales, in my opinion.

by munkian Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:40 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Thus far, only 9 games to be shown on S4C between rounds 1 and 17.

What a way to keep the embers burning on an already struggling fire in Wales. The Pro14 is already fighting for it's life here in Wales, by the time this new TV deal is up, people will be asking, what's a Pro14 ?

It is going to be a slow agonising death.

But at least the Irish will have 75 games to watch in the same timescale. Via EIR sports and the packages they get.

LD, I know it looks like I’m constantly jumping on your posts, and I agree that less FTA means less exposure, but why do you say the PRO14 is already struggling in Wales and fighting for its life? Seems to be going fine to me. Doesn’t look or seem worse than any time over the last few years so ‘dying’ seems an odd claim. Or do you mean that you predict it will be doing going forward???

You honestly think the Pro14 is popular in Wales ? It might be in your neck of the woods, but travel further afield and you will see it is not so popular, it was gaining popularity, I will admit that, but this new TV deal will kill any momentum the Pro14 was gaining in Wales, in my opinion.

Balls

by marty2086 Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:40 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

It's not like the league have explained how they reach decisions, I mean it's not like the Irish provinces either own their own ground or are primary tenants and have no issues around ground sharing

Do the Scarlets, Kings, Cheetahs and Cardiff "ground share with football teams" as the Pro14 put it?

Really? Where did they put it like that?

by Guest Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Thus far, only 9 games to be shown on S4C between rounds 1 and 17.

What a way to keep the embers burning on an already struggling fire in Wales. The Pro14 is already fighting for it's life here in Wales, by the time this new TV deal is up, people will be asking, what's a Pro14 ?

It is going to be a slow agonising death.

But at least the Irish will have 75 games to watch in the same timescale. Via EIR sports and the packages they get.

LD, I know it looks like I’m constantly jumping on your posts, and I agree that less FTA means less exposure, but why do you say the PRO14 is already struggling in Wales and fighting for its life? Seems to be going fine to me. Doesn’t look or seem worse than any time over the last few years so ‘dying’ seems an odd claim. Or do you mean that you predict it will be doing going forward???

You honestly think the Pro14 is popular in Wales ? It might be in your neck of the woods, but travel further afield and you will see it is not so popular, it was gaining popularity, I will admit that, but this new TV deal will kill any momentum the Pro14 was gaining in Wales, in my opinion.

There’s probably pockets of popularity/unpopularity across Wales. But that’s the same everywhere. I bet rugby league is not popular everywhere in England (e.g. not as popular in Devon/Cornwall as it is in, say, Leeds or Wigan). So yeah, in areas without Pro14 teams I guess it wouldn’t be that popular. But I don’t think the popularity is declining or dying. Actually, when you look at the Scarlets attendances I believe they are up suggesting the popularity of the Pro14 is increasing down wear (due to them winning stuff I’d guess).

At Rodney Parade I don’t think there’s been a huge swing either up or down on attendances in the last 10 years or so, so I’d say the popularity of the league is relatively static. Will be interesting to see how season ticket sales and attendances are affected by the new signings and feelings of a ‘new dawn’ (even if it turns out to be a false one!). We might even see higher attendance at RP which would suggest an increase in popularity!

by St John The Enforcer Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:18 pm

Kudos to the Pro14 for organising a comp with 5 countries and getting fixtures out right up to next March.

The bods at the Heineken cup can only manage 4 fixture weekends before Christmas.

by PhilBB Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:40 pm

St John The Enforcer wrote:Kudos to the Pro14 for organising a comp with 5 countries and getting fixtures out right up to next March.

The bods at the Heineken cup can only manage 4 fixture weekends before Christmas.

That is because broadcasters wait to see how the Groups are panning out before deciding who to televise in rounds 5 and 6. No?

by PhilBB Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:41 pm

The Oracle wrote:
At Rodney Parade I don’t think there’s been a huge swing either up or down on attendances in the last 10 years or so,

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk/analysis/club_attendances.php?seasonID=23&clubID=20

You may wish to stip out Judgement Day in order to make a comparison across pre-JD and the JD era.

by BamBam Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:51 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Thus far, only 9 games to be shown on S4C between rounds 1 and 17.

What a way to keep the embers burning on an already struggling fire in Wales. The Pro14 is already fighting for it's life here in Wales, by the time this new TV deal is up, people will be asking, what's a Pro14 ?

It is going to be a slow agonising death.

But at least the Irish will have 75 games to watch in the same timescale. Via EIR sports and the packages they get.

Why are you comparing what is on FTA in Wales to what is on all broadcasters in Ireland? Isn't the comparison what is on EIR compared to what is on Premier Sports?

Surely all who want to watch the Pro 14 in Wales can do what their counterparts in Ireland / SA / Scotland do, and pull their finger out and pay for it?

by marty2086 Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:53 pm

BamBam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Thus far, only 9 games to be shown on S4C between rounds 1 and 17.

What a way to keep the embers burning on an already struggling fire in Wales. The Pro14 is already fighting for it's life here in Wales, by the time this new TV deal is up, people will be asking, what's a Pro14 ?

It is going to be a slow agonising death.

But at least the Irish will have 75 games to watch in the same timescale. Via EIR sports and the packages they get.

Why are you comparing what is on FTA in Wales to what is on all broadcasters in Ireland? Isn't the comparison what is on EIR compared to what is on Premier Sports?

Surely all who want to watch the Pro 14 in Wales can do what their counterparts in Ireland / SA / Scotland do, and pull their finger out and pay for it?

Not to mention he forgets that Ireland is a bit more complex than he makes out, pretty typical though Rolling Eyes

by PhilBB Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:54 pm

BamBam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Thus far, only 9 games to be shown on S4C between rounds 1 and 17.

What a way to keep the embers burning on an already struggling fire in Wales. The Pro14 is already fighting for it's life here in Wales, by the time this new TV deal is up, people will be asking, what's a Pro14 ?

It is going to be a slow agonising death.

But at least the Irish will have 75 games to watch in the same timescale. Via EIR sports and the packages they get.

Why are you comparing what is on FTA in Wales to what is on all broadcasters in Ireland? Isn't the comparison what is on EIR compared to what is on Premier Sports?

Surely all who want to watch the Pro 14 in Wales can do what their counterparts in Ireland / SA / Scotland do, and pull their finger out and pay for it?

How much does it cost to watch TG4?

by BamBam Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:57 pm

The same as it costs to watch S4C? I'm asking why he is comparing what is on S4C vs what is on EIR

Edit - I also don't think FreeSports is on in Ireland? They are also showing games, and are available in Wales and not in Ireland

I don't have a problem with FTA games, I just don't like Lady D's victim mentality

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:08 pm

If you have EIR sports in Ireland you get Premier Sports for free as part of the package. So with all the Irish channels you get 75 games to watch in 2018 compared to in the UK where you need to pay for Premier Sports separately.

People in Wales will be very reluctant to pay for Premier Sports, they would rather be paying for Sky Sports so that they can watch Liverpool and Manchester UTD. I would wager this would be the same scenario in Scotland, but change the teams to Celtic, Rangers or Hibs and Aberdeen.

Only the die hard rugby fans would more than likely pay for Premier Sports, people on here I would suppose. But for a league that is trying to grow in stature, and get as much exposure as it can compared to it's peers, then this deal with Premier Sports only suits one country, and it ain't in the UK.

Ireland now have the Pro14 spread over EIR, Premier Sports and TG4. The UK have Premier sports and the odd game on S4C. Us fans in the UK have had a cr@p deal no matter how you spin it.

by marty2086 Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:10 pm

Except Premier Sports do not have the rights to show the games in RoI picard

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:16 pm

marty2086 wrote:Except Premier Sports do not have the rights to show the games in RoI

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/former-setanta-owner-secures-irish-rights-to-53-premier-league-matches-1.3522560

read this bit:-

Rugby rights
In April, it signed a deal to show live Pro14 Rugby in the UK for three years. Its portfolio also includes rugby league, GAA, continental European football, ice hockey, MMA and motorsports.

That is premier sports. it's called another channel in Ireland, I wonder if you can tell us what that is ?

by marty2086 Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:19 pm

It doesn't matter what it's called, only Eir and TG4 can legally show the games in RoI.

You do realise Sky show Premier League games in RoI they can't legally show in the UK at 3pm on a Saturday?

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:22 pm

OK so it's not called Premier Sports in Ireland it goes under the guise of EIR sports, but you know this.

It does not matter what the channel is called. In Ireland you have access to 75 live Pro14 games this side of Christmas, all for one price.

For people in the UK to get the same, they would need to pay for multiple channels.

by marty2086 Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:OK so it's not called Premier Sports in Ireland it goes under the guise of EIR sports, but you know this.

It does not matter what the channel is called. In Ireland you have access to 75 live Pro14 games this side of Christmas, all for one price.

For people in the UK to get the same, they would need to pay for multiple channels.

No they wouldn't. They'd need to pay £10 for Premier Sports to get all the games but you know this

by BamBam Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:25 pm

LordDowlais wrote:OK so it's not called Premier Sports in Ireland it goes under the guise of EIR sports, but you know this.

It does not matter what the channel is called. In Ireland you have access to 75 live Pro14 games this side of Christmas, all for one price.

For people in the UK to get the same, they would need to pay for multiple channels.

No they don't - Premier Sports has the rights to EVERY GAME for UK broadcast. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Pay the subscription, get every game - simple as it gets

I don't know why you insist on lying and making up fantasy facts

by marty2086 Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:27 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:OK so it's not called Premier Sports in Ireland it goes under the guise of EIR sports, but you know this.

It does not matter what the channel is called. In Ireland you have access to 75 live Pro14 games this side of Christmas, all for one price.

For people in the UK to get the same, they would need to pay for multiple channels.

No they wouldn't. They'd need to pay £10 for Premier Sports to get all the games but you know this

Also Eir is a telephone company in Ireland, they are basically Irelands answer to BT

Premier Sports is owned by Premier Media who are run by the man who used to run Setanta, that was until Eir bought Setanta

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:35 pm

marty2086 wrote:Premier Sports is owned by Premier Media who are run by the man who used to run Setanta, that was until Eir bought Setanta

So that just proves what I am saying EIR sports and Premier Sports are the same thing. Yes ?

With that deal you get all the European games, all the Pro14 games, all in one nice neat package, where as in the UK we have to subscribe to premier Sports and BT Sports, but we still do not get as good a deal as we won't get the games that are just on EIR sports.

Yet you and BamBam see fit to make me out as stupid ? Rolling Eyes

by BamBam Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:40 pm

Stop changing the goalposts you sad little man, no one was talking about European games just the Pro 14

If you live in Wales, subscribe to Premier Sports - you will get every single Pro 14 game

Is that true or not?

by Guest Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:42 pm

PhilBB wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
At Rodney Parade I don’t think there’s been a huge swing either up or down on attendances in the last 10 years or so,

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk/analysis/club_attendances.php?seasonID=23&clubID=20

You may wish to stip out Judgement Day in order to make a comparison across pre-JD and the JD era.

Dragons average attendance seems to swing up and down by about 500 either way (10% or so +/-). The overall trend since inception seems to be upwards though, rather than declining, but that’s not factoring in the Judgement Day attendances since 2013, but I’m not sure how they calaculate those anyway (surely not by counting everyone in the ground?!).

by BamBam Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:43 pm

Ok, I'm doing this just for the benefit of Lady D, I'll write in the most simple words I can so hopefully he'll be able to follow this

My source is the Pro 14 Broadcast schedule - https://www.pro14rugby.org/match-centre/broadcast-schedule/

Round 1

UK FTA TV
Ulster vs Scarlets - S4C
Zebre vs Kings - Free Sports

Irish FTA
Cardiff vs Leinster - TG4
Connacht vs Glasgow - TG4

Round 2

UK FTA TV
Connacht vs Zebre - S4C
Treviso vs Cardiff - Free Sports

Irish FTA
Scarlets vs Leinster - TG4
Ospreys vs Cheetahs - TG4

Round 3

UK FTA TV
Munster vs Ospreys - S4C
Leinster vs Dragons - S4C
Cheetahs vs Glasgow - Free Sports

Irish FTA
Scarlets vs Treviso - TG4

Round 4

UK FTA TV
Cardiff vs Munster - S4C
Kings vs Glasgow - Free Sports

Irish FTA
Connacht vs Scarlets - TG4
Dragons vs Zebre - TG4

Round 5

UK FTA TV
Glasgow vs Dragons - Free Sports

Irish FTA
Connacht vs Leinster - TG4
Scarlets vs Kings - TG4

After 5 weeks
Welsh FTA games - 10
Irish FTA games - 9

Does that help soothe your victim mentality Dowlais?

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:43 pm

BamBam wrote:Stop changing the goalposts you sad little man, no one was talking about European games just the Pro 14

If you live in Wales, subscribe to Premier Sports - you will get every single Pro 14 game

Is that true or not?

I have not said that. Again you are lying to suit your agenda.

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:45 pm

BamBam wrote:UK FTA TV
Connacht vs Zebre - S4C
Treviso vs Cardiff - Free Sports

Why would S4C be showing Connacht vs Zebre ?

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:50 pm

BamBam wrote:Round 3

UK FTA TV
Munster vs Ospreys - S4C
Leinster vs Dragons - S4C
Cheetahs vs Glasgow - Free Sports

OMG, you are just the gift that keeps on giving. Check the schedule. You are getting S4C and TG4 mixed up. Laugh

There is only game free to air in the UK for round three is Cheetahs V Glasgow.

There is probably more, but I just cannot bother checking. This is enough for you to stew in your on stupidity. picard

by BamBam Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:00 pm

You're an utter moron - read the schedule

https://www.pro14rugby.org/match-centre/broadcast-schedule/

Round 2, second game down is Connacht vs Zebre - look at the host broadcaster

In fact, I've cut it out for you, because I don't believe that you're smart enough to find it

https://ibb.co/kqCwJo

by BamBam Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:02 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:Round 3

UK FTA TV
Munster vs Ospreys - S4C
Leinster vs Dragons - S4C
Cheetahs vs Glasgow - Free Sports

OMG, you are just the gift that keeps on giving. Check the schedule. You are getting S4C and TG4 mixed up.

There is only game free to air in the UK for round three is Cheetahs V Glasgow.

There is probably more, but I just cannot bother checking. This is enough for you to stew in your on stupidity.

Dear god you are a blithering, blustering, simple minded idiot

Here is another screenshot, of the whole of round 3

Which bit of that blue S4C symbol do you not see?

https://ibb.co/mZTQB8

by BamBam Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:09 pm

LordDowlais wrote:OK so it's not called Premier Sports in Ireland it goes under the guise of EIR sports, but you know this.

It does not matter what the channel is called. In Ireland you have access to 75 live Pro14 games this side of Christmas, all for one price.

For people in the UK to get the same, they would need to pay for multiple channels.

LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:Stop changing the goalposts you sad little man, no one was talking about European games just the Pro 14

If you live in Wales, subscribe to Premier Sports - you will get every single Pro 14 game

Is that true or not?

I have not said that. Again you are lying to suit your agenda.

You are a lying little toerag aren't you Dowlais

by RugbyFan100 Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:13 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

It's not like the league have explained how they reach decisions, I mean it's not like the Irish provinces either own their own ground or are primary tenants and have no issues around ground sharing

Do the Scarlets, Kings, Cheetahs and Cardiff "ground share with football teams" as the Pro14 put it?

Really? Where did they put it like that?

In the quote you posted at the top of this page. Laugh

You've not had a good week.

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:18 pm

BamBam wrote:You're an utter moron - read the schedule

https://www.pro14rugby.org/match-centre/broadcast-schedule/

Round 2, second game down is Connacht vs Zebre - look at the host broadcaster

In fact, I've cut it out for you, because I don't believe that you're smart enough to find it

https://ibb.co/kqCwJo

Yes again, they are on TG4 not S4C, are you being this stupid on purpose ? laughing

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:19 pm

BamBam wrote:You're an utter moron - read the schedule

https://www.pro14rugby.org/match-centre/broadcast-schedule/

Round 2, second game down is Connacht vs Zebre - look at the host broadcaster

In fact, I've cut it out for you, because I don't believe that you're smart enough to find it

https://ibb.co/kqCwJo

Yes the broadcaster is TG4, seriously, you are not having a good day, again. picard

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:20 pm

BamBam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:OK so it's not called Premier Sports in Ireland it goes under the guise of EIR sports, but you know this.

It does not matter what the channel is called. In Ireland you have access to 75 live Pro14 games this side of Christmas, all for one price.

For people in the UK to get the same, they would need to pay for multiple channels.

LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:Stop changing the goalposts you sad little man, no one was talking about European games just the Pro 14

If you live in Wales, subscribe to Premier Sports - you will get every single Pro 14 game

Is that true or not?

I have not said that. Again you are lying to suit your agenda.

You are a lying little toerag aren't you Dowlais

The Irish do have access to 75 live games. You do realise that EIR sports and Premier sports are one of the same don't you ?

You really are having trouble with this aren't you ?

by BamBam Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:OK so it's not called Premier Sports in Ireland it goes under the guise of EIR sports, but you know this.

It does not matter what the channel is called. In Ireland you have access to 75 live Pro14 games this side of Christmas, all for one price.

For people in the UK to get the same, they would need to pay for multiple channels.

LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:Stop changing the goalposts you sad little man, no one was talking about European games just the Pro 14

If you live in Wales, subscribe to Premier Sports - you will get every single Pro 14 game

Is that true or not?

I have not said that. Again you are lying to suit your agenda.

You are a lying little toerag aren't you Dowlais

The Irish do have access to 75 live games. You do realise that EIR sports and Premier sports are one of the same don't you ?

You really are having trouble with this aren't you ?

You do realise that only EIR are going to be showing every game in Ireland? So they need to get EIR to watch them

In the UK, Premier are showing every game

What is the difference?

You lied when you said UK viewers would have to subscribe to multiple channels - they don't its just Premier. You're a liar and a moron

by BamBam Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:25 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:You're an utter moron - read the schedule

https://www.pro14rugby.org/match-centre/broadcast-schedule/

Round 2, second game down is Connacht vs Zebre - look at the host broadcaster

In fact, I've cut it out for you, because I don't believe that you're smart enough to find it

https://ibb.co/kqCwJo

Yes the broadcaster is TG4, seriously, you are not having a good day, again.

Even if I've done a Dowlais and mixed up my abbreviations, my original point still stands - 9 FTA games in Wales, 10 in Ireland - are you really going to b1tch like a teenage girl about one game?

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:25 pm

https://ibb.co/kqCwJo

OMG, are you serious ?

It is obvious you have doctored this to get yourself out of a hole.

Firstly, the original link you have provided is different.

https://www.pro14rugby.org/match-centre/broadcast-schedule/

Secondly why would a Welsh speaking channel, who's audience is people in Wales show a game that does not include any Welsh teams ?

God you are desperate.

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