The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

First topic message reminder :

A new thread to continue the tracking of where the multi-country Championship is heading.

With the TV deals done for Ireland, UK, Italy and South Africa, PRO14 quietly announced their deal for tapping other broadcast markets around the world with rights partner, RDA, who already have the Heineken Cup and English Premiership in their stable.  

Here’s extract from what the PRO14 press release said:  

Guinness PRO14 is the first rugby union championship to host clubs from the traditional rugby powers in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres, with teams from South Africa competing against the top sides from Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy.....

....RDA’s focus will be on growing revenues in core markets as well as increasing the Guinness PRO14’s global footprint. Current media agreements in host markets secured by PRO14 include eir sport in Ireland, Premier Sports in the UK and Super Sport in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Martin Anayi, CEO, Guinness PRO14 commented: “It’s an incredible time in the Guinness PRO14 with our expansion into South Africa, the success of our clubs in Europe and the confirmation of our new broadcast partners in Ireland and the UK. Every season the biggest names in world rugby take to the pitch in our Championship guided by some of the sharpest minds in the game providing imaginative, high-intensity match-ups which make for compulsive viewing.

“The Guinness PRO14 is one of the most talked about rugby properties in the world right now and it’s the perfect time to join forces with RDA who have a track record of success when it comes to sports media rights. With brands such as Premiership Rugby, Champions Cup and European Challenge Cup in their portfolio we can ensure that rugby fans will feel a part of the Guinness PRO14 action no matter where they are.”

...,Richard Dennis, CEO, RDA commented: “The Guinness PRO14 is an action-packed tournament. With a global-playing base of 300 players capped at full international level, and 100 top players from countries such as New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and the Pacific Islands, PRO14 will have a worldwide appeal to rugby fans. It also boasts some impressive stats, 1.3 million attendees last season and games averaging 5.9 tries, so it’s no surprise scoring has risen for the fifth year in a row. We’re very much excited to be working with the Guinness PRO14.”

RDA adds the Guinness PRO14 to a strong rugby portfolio covering the newly sponsored Champions Cup, European Challenge Cup, Premiership Rugby, Betfred Super League and the RFL International Test Series.

Anayi in another pre-season general interview said that PRO16 would be the ideal size for the Championship that would allow less regular season games to be played and avoid test windows. It’s likely the final two spots would go to two more SA teams - likely from Super Rugby before the start of its new Sanzaar TV contract in 2020.

Anayi also mentioned that they were bringing in a new programme to allow them employ professional referees directly on their elite refs panel.

The Oracle wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:The amount of times that PRO14 news has been leaked to Wales Online should give the whiners pause for thought.  I suspect that Irish media got tired of it and went with their own reports.

Embargoes are tricky things to enforce when one publication consistently breaks it.  And I mean Wales Online.

Oooh, gives us some examples Pot. I love a juicy bit of gossip.

No juicy gossip, Oracle, I’m afraid.
It’s all quite boring.

Pot Hale wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:The amount of times that PRO14 news has been leaked to Wales Online should give the whiners pause for thought.  I suspect that Irish media got tired of it and went with their own reports.

Embargoes are tricky things to enforce when one publication consistently breaks it.  And I mean Wales Online.

Oooh, gives us some examples Pot. I love a juicy bit of gossip.

No juicy gossip, Oracle, I’m afraid.  
It’s all quite boring.

Boring will do. I hate Wales Online so try to avoid it. However, I’m interested to see the stuff they’ve leaked.

On a separate note though, here’s a nice piece about the strength of the PRO14 vs Super Rugby, from someone who knows:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44885660

"Super Rugby is too long and shouldn't have gone to 18 teams," said Cassiem.

The southern hemisphere club competition now includes 18 teams from five countries with Japan and Argentina joining sides from New Zealand, South Africa and Australia.

"From what I have seen in Super Rugby over the past year the stadiums are getting emptier and emptier," said Cassiem.

"If it was smaller there would be stronger teams meaning the games would be far more competitive.


The key to that, for me, is be careful on trying to keep on expanding. Bringing in people for cash and ‘growing the game’ can quite easily mess up a good thing.

There is a few different between a Pro16/18/20 and super18

1. We aren't going to have a conference system that spans the globe such as the SA/Arg/Jap conference.
2 it is unlikely that any nation would dominate the tournament like NZ has Super Rugby.
3. No guaranteed places for countries so top teams get top spots so no perceived bias.
4. Travel to SA would be considered a fun trip away rather than the long trips of Super teams.
5. Financial reward will be bigger for all teams
6. Weaker teams can improve squads with SH players.
7. Champions Cup is where the top teams are really decided in Europe and the top teams in the league want to be top team in Europe. Think Sarries when they threw a game v Exter to win the CC semis the following week. Glasgow only ok as poor in Europe, Scarlets good as did good in Europe.
8. B6Nations working on improving their structure to help get them up to speed. One of these teams is more likely to get a team in the Pro14 as a test for showing their strenght before any opening up of the 6Ns happen.

Plans are for SA to have 4 teams in Super Rugby (As now) and 4 Teams in Pro fourt... eh sixteen. This gives us a 16 team model which would actually reduce the number of games.
Not sure how the numbers crunch on that as 14 games in a 8 team conference and that would leave 8 inter conference (Presuming 2 conferences) i.e 22 games up from 21.

St John The Enforcer wrote:Plans are for SA to have 4 teams in Super Rugby (As now) and 4 Teams in Pro fourt... eh sixteen. This gives us a 16 team model which would actually reduce the number of games.
Not sure how the numbers crunch on that as 14 games in a 8 team conference and that would leave 8 inter conference (Presuming 2 conferences) i.e 22 games up from 21.

Why are we ok with the reduction of regular league games in a season? It would be awful. We used to have 22 in the Pro12. Now we have what 21?, and in a Pro16 we'd have even fewer? That's 11 home games in 2016, reduced to 10 this season just gone, and in a pro16 reduced to 8 or 9 (according to rugby journos online).

Again, this is just a raw end of the deal for domestic rugby proving that the Guiness ProX is just a stepping stone for test rugby. Shambles.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

St John The Enforcer wrote:Plans are for SA to have 4 teams in Super Rugby (As now) and 4 Teams in Pro fourt... eh sixteen. This gives us a 16 team model which would actually reduce the number of games.
Not sure how the numbers crunch on that as 14 games in a 8 team conference and that would leave 8 inter conference (Presuming 2 conferences) i.e 22 games up from 21.

Why are we ok with the reduction of regular league games in a season? It would be awful. We used to have 22 in the Pro12. Now we have what 21?, and in a  Pro16 we'd have even fewer?  That's 11 home games in 2016, reduced to 10 this season just gone, and in a pro16 reduced to 8 or 9 (according to rugby journos online).

Again, this is just a raw end of the deal for domestic rugby proving that the Guiness ProX is just a stepping stone for test rugby. Shambles.

Perhaps because we are in a union run setup but some of us like both test Rugby AND domestic Rugby. There needs to be a balance. Otherwise players get burnt out. See rumblings in England from a lot of players. e.g. Billy Vunipola.

Balance means both sides compromise.

St John The Enforcer wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

St John The Enforcer wrote:Plans are for SA to have 4 teams in Super Rugby (As now) and 4 Teams in Pro fourt... eh sixteen. This gives us a 16 team model which would actually reduce the number of games.
Not sure how the numbers crunch on that as 14 games in a 8 team conference and that would leave 8 inter conference (Presuming 2 conferences) i.e 22 games up from 21.

Why are we ok with the reduction of regular league games in a season? It would be awful. We used to have 22 in the Pro12. Now we have what 21?, and in a  Pro16 we'd have even fewer?  That's 11 home games in 2016, reduced to 10 this season just gone, and in a pro16 reduced to 8 or 9 (according to rugby journos online).

Again, this is just a raw end of the deal for domestic rugby proving that the Guiness ProX is just a stepping stone for test rugby. Shambles.

Perhaps because we are in a union run setup but some of us like both test Rugby AND domestic Rugby. There needs to be a balance. Otherwise players get burnt out. See rumblings in England from a lot of players. e.g. Billy Vunipola.

Balance means both sides compromise.

Where is the compromise from the test game on this issue?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

St John The Enforcer wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

St John The Enforcer wrote:Plans are for SA to have 4 teams in Super Rugby (As now) and 4 Teams in Pro fourt... eh sixteen. This gives us a 16 team model which would actually reduce the number of games.
Not sure how the numbers crunch on that as 14 games in a 8 team conference and that would leave 8 inter conference (Presuming 2 conferences) i.e 22 games up from 21.

Why are we ok with the reduction of regular league games in a season? It would be awful. We used to have 22 in the Pro12. Now we have what 21?, and in a  Pro16 we'd have even fewer?  That's 11 home games in 2016, reduced to 10 this season just gone, and in a pro16 reduced to 8 or 9 (according to rugby journos online).

Again, this is just a raw end of the deal for domestic rugby proving that the Guiness ProX is just a stepping stone for test rugby. Shambles.

Perhaps because we are in a union run setup but some of us like both test Rugby AND domestic Rugby. There needs to be a balance. Otherwise players get burnt out. See rumblings in England from a lot of players. e.g. Billy Vunipola.

Balance means both sides compromise.

Where is the compromise from the test game on this issue?

Why should it compromise? It's a huge revenue generator that helps sustain a large part of the club game

And why exactly is less games in the league a bad thing?

They let us exist?

Issue has not been sufficiently dealt with. It will have to be though. Sam Warburtons will be popping up all over the place if not.

Before we descend into a free market capitalism (Independent clubs) v Comunism (Unions) argument. Can I say (again) that there needs to be a balance.

Neither extreme is good. Each country has a different balance. England seem to be finding theirs recently. I think the debate will move on and there will eventually be less union input generally. But a "lets shoot all the blazers and all will be well" is just a silly as "lets get private ownership out of our sport"

I don't think anyone is proposing either of those scenarios btw.  Just putting them up as extremes.

I very much doubt only 9, let alone 8 home games.

Conference = 14.

Create an Internal national conference - 6 games for Wales, SA and Ireland.
Combine Scotland and Italy and you have 20 games - 1 less than now.
For the 3 countries supplying 4 teams a genuine national competition.
OK a bit of a botch for the Scots and Italians but a reasonable compromise

marty2086 wrote:

And why exactly is less games in the league a bad thing?

Seriously? You're asking on a rugby forum which is preferable on a weekend: Watching my team play rugby - or not watching my team play rugby?

I never stop being staggered by this forum.

geoff999rugby wrote:I very much doubt only 9, let alone 8 home games.

Conference = 14.

Create an Internal national conference - 6 games for Wales, SA and Ireland.
Combine Scotland and Italy and you have 20 games - 1 less than now.
For the 3 countries supplying 4 teams a genuine national competition.
OK a bit of a botch for the Scots and Italians but a reasonable compromise

It's all supposition at this point. But tweets like this a few weeks back suggested the format may be just 18 regular season league games.

https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/1014498131604590593

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

And why exactly is less games in the league a bad thing?

Seriously? You're asking on a rugby forum which is preferable on a weekend: Watching my team play rugby - or not watching my team play rugby?

I never stop being staggered by this forum.

I agree, imagine not knowing that the league is looking to drop games played on Test weekends

What staggers me is that for a self proclaimed rugby fan, your knowledge is that off someone who isn't

RugbyFan100 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:I very much doubt only 9, let alone 8 home games.

Conference = 14.

Create an Internal national conference - 6 games for Wales, SA and Ireland.
Combine Scotland and Italy and you have 20 games - 1 less than now.
For the 3 countries supplying 4 teams a genuine national competition.
OK a bit of a botch for the Scots and Italians but a reasonable compromise

It's all supposition at this point. But tweets like this a few weeks back suggested the format may be just 18 regular season league games.

https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/1014498131604590593

And where does anyone from Pro14 say that's happening? They don't, Simon Thomas puts forward what he thinks works best

Pro 16 surely would end up with 22 games in 2 conferences of 8? How they sort that out will be interesting.

Something like SA-Scotland-Italy and Wales-Ireland. Don't want to split up potential derbies for the countries with 4 teams.

Toronto have a fair shot at joining Super League (rugby league) next season and will be interesting to see how they handle the travel.

SRU accounts came out today and were generally positive. Hoping that the other unions are in a similar boat after the format change last year.

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:I very much doubt only 9, let alone 8 home games.

Conference = 14.

Create an Internal national conference - 6 games for Wales, SA and Ireland.
Combine Scotland and Italy and you have 20 games - 1 less than now.
For the 3 countries supplying 4 teams a genuine national competition.
OK a bit of a botch for the Scots and Italians but a reasonable compromise

It's all supposition at this point. But tweets like this a few weeks back suggested the format may be just 18 regular season league games.

https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/1014498131604590593

And where does anyone from Pro14 say that's happening? They don't, Simon Thomas puts forward what he thinks works best

Absolutely. I'll drop the subject if it turns out we have 11 or 12 home games like we have for the previous decade.

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

And why exactly is less games in the league a bad thing?

Seriously? You're asking on a rugby forum which is preferable on a weekend: Watching my team play rugby - or not watching my team play rugby?

I never stop being staggered by this forum.

I agree, imagine not knowing that the league is looking to drop games played on Test weekends

What staggers me is that for a self proclaimed rugby fan, your knowledge is that off someone who isn't

Eh?

There's a couple of plays straight out of Phils playbook

Let's try using some facts, the Italian teams joined in 2010 so a decade ago teams were playing 9 home games. You able to read that ok, any questions? Anything need clarifying for you there?

Martin Anayi has said since he came in he wants to reduce the number of games played on Test weekends, so I ask what's the problem with that?

marty2086 wrote:There's a couple of plays straight out of Phils playbook

Let's try using some facts, the Italian teams joined in 2010 so a decade ago teams were playing 9 home games. You able to read that ok, any questions? Anything need clarifying for you there?

Martin Anayi has said since he came in he wants to reduce the number of games played on Test weekends, so I ask what's the problem with that?

The problem is, I won't get to do my hobby as much. I won't get to watch my team play rugby as much.

Why should the international game compromise? Brilliant.

The same international game that is saturated. Why should it compromise? Stockholm syndrome at its best.

The Blazers won't compromise as they know where the only growth market is in rugby: the domestic game. They know their game is saturated.

Hell, we're getting Wales v Scotland in November this year. How incestuous.

And I think some "massive rugby fan" has forgotten that we had a proper competition with the English before the Italians joined the PrO'14.

The easiest way to reduce the number of games played on Test weekends is to play fewer test matches.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:There's a couple of plays straight out of Phils playbook

Let's try using some facts, the Italian teams joined in 2010 so a decade ago teams were playing 9 home games. You able to read that ok, any questions? Anything need clarifying for you there?

Martin Anayi has said since he came in he wants to reduce the number of games played on Test weekends, so I ask what's the problem with that?

The problem is, I won't get to do my hobby as much. I won't get to watch my team play rugby as much.

And the fewer games that your team plays means the more reliant it is on income from the international game. And that's the vicious circle the blazer owned teams are happy with as they don't have to stand on their own two feet.

Of course, once the saturation levels mean no growth in the international game, the domestic game will then be too weak to pick up the slack.

It's like the Tories plan to privatise the NHS.

http://www.thebounce.co.za/articles/sports/superugby-is-dead-dead-dead-/5062?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork

For SA, see Wales. That's what happens when "Competitions designed by unions for the sake of preparation for international rugby see small to negative fan growth" https://twitter.com/danpowledge/status/1021033479285469189

RugbyFan100 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:There's a couple of plays straight out of Phils playbook

Let's try using some facts, the Italian teams joined in 2010 so a decade ago teams were playing 9 home games. You able to read that ok, any questions? Anything need clarifying for you there?

Martin Anayi has said since he came in he wants to reduce the number of games played on Test weekends, so I ask what's the problem with that?

The problem is, I won't get to do my hobby as much. I won't get to watch my team play rugby as much.

Well why didn't you say or you could go and watch some Welsh Championship games or go to a Wales game since they'll be playing on those days

But in the Ireland it has been the complete opposite - crowds are considerably higher than a decade ago.
The pro14 as a whole is on a steady upward path crowd wise.

I think it is a big mistake to conclude that the dogs breakfast that is the southern hemisphere tournament teaches us anything of value with respect to the Pro14.
Provided we stick with the Saffers with a similar time zone we will be fine.

Just don't include the USA and Argentina, then it probably would go pear shaped

marty2086 wrote:
Well why didn't you say or you could go and watch some Welsh Championship games or go to a Wales game since they'll be playing on those days

Community rugby is often NOT played when Team Wales are playing.

geoff999rugby wrote:But in the Ireland it has been the complete opposite - crowds are considerably higher than a decade ago.
The pro14 as a whole is on a steady upward path crowd wise.

I think it is a big mistake to conclude that the dogs breakfast that is the southern hemisphere tournament teaches us anything of value with respect to the Pro14.
Provided we stick with the Saffers with a similar time zone we will be fine.

Just don't include the USA and Argentina, then it probably would go pear shaped

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk/analysis/season_attendances_by_club.php?countryID=3

Three Irish teams had lower league crowds last season than the season before, if you want to look at the stats in that way.

Of course, we in Wales want to go to away games by car. Because we could, you see, if we played in the league that we wanted to play in.

I understand fully that the concept of travelling by car to away games is difficult for those PrO'14 team fans outside of Wales to empathise with.

Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

Is Phill crying about his unrequited love again?
Glad after all these years that record hasn't changed.

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

Garbage, isn't it?

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

I’m personally happy being in a league with the Scots and Irish, but it’s a bit childish to come out with that retort Kingshu! If a poster would prefer his club to play in a different league then what is wrong with that? If you decided tomorrow that you’d prefer the Irish teams to play in another league then I imagine you’d want to be allowed your say? I bet there’s a load of South African fans against joining the Pro14 - are they not allowed to voice there opinion either?!

The Oracle wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

I’m personally happy being in a league with the Scots and Irish, but it’s a bit childish to come out with that retort Kingshu! If a poster would prefer his club to play in a different league then what is wrong with that? If you decided tomorrow that you’d prefer the Irish teams to play in another league then I imagine you’d want to be allowed your say? I bet there’s a load of South African fans against joining the Pro14 - are they not allowed to voice there opinion either?!

Sorry but at no point has Kingshu has said no one is allowed an opinion so to claim so is just lies

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

I’m personally happy being in a league with the Scots and Irish, but it’s a bit childish to come out with that retort Kingshu! If a poster would prefer his club to play in a different league then what is wrong with that? If you decided tomorrow that you’d prefer the Irish teams to play in another league then I imagine you’d want to be allowed your say? I bet there’s a load of South African fans against joining the Pro14 - are they not allowed to voice there opinion either?!

Sorry but at no point has Kingshu has said no one is allowed an opinion so to claim so is just lies

And at no point did Phil actually say ‘boohoo the English don’t want us and we’re stuck with the Irish and Scots’. It’s about what’s implied.

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

I’m personally happy being in a league with the Scots and Irish, but it’s a bit childish to come out with that retort Kingshu! If a poster would prefer his club to play in a different league then what is wrong with that? If you decided tomorrow that you’d prefer the Irish teams to play in another league then I imagine you’d want to be allowed your say? I bet there’s a load of South African fans against joining the Pro14 - are they not allowed to voice there opinion either?!

Sorry but at no point has Kingshu has said no one is allowed an opinion so to claim so is just lies

And at no point did Phil actually say ‘boohoo the English don’t want us and we’re stuck with the Irish and Scots’. It’s about what’s implied.

And it wasn't even implied

He mocked Phil which he is entitled to do, you just created a strawman argument for some unknown reason

marty2086 wrote:
He mocked Phil which he is entitled to do, you just created a strawman argument for some unknown reason

That was mocking me? Oh.

I thought it was just about making himself look like a silly billy.

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

I’m personally happy being in a league with the Scots and Irish, but it’s a bit childish to come out with that retort Kingshu! If a poster would prefer his club to play in a different league then what is wrong with that? If you decided tomorrow that you’d prefer the Irish teams to play in another league then I imagine you’d want to be allowed your say? I bet there’s a load of South African fans against joining the Pro14 - are they not allowed to voice there opinion either?!

Sorry but at no point has Kingshu has said no one is allowed an opinion so to claim so is just lies

And at no point did Phil actually say ‘boohoo the English don’t want us and we’re stuck with the Irish and Scots’. It’s about what’s implied.

And it wasn't even implied

He mocked Phil which he is entitled to do, you just created a strawman argument for some unknown reason

By coming out with a sarcy response like that he’s basically saying “Oh sod off Phil, I’ve had enough of your rants about how much you hate the league and how much you want away from it”. Of course it is.

The Oracle wrote:
And at no point did Phil actually say ‘boohoo the English don’t want us and we’re stuck with the Irish and Scots’. It’s about what’s implied.

You really shouldn't take it so literally.

The Irish know that they'd be knackered without the Welsh, so they'll always do their best to point fun at the WRU for being unable to secure an Anglo-Welsh league. Next you'll get the "you'll all be second division teams" argument from those who don't understand how leagues are funded as they only follow Union puppet teams where an Australian in Dublin gets to decide who will win.

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

I’m personally happy being in a league with the Scots and Irish, but it’s a bit childish to come out with that retort Kingshu! If a poster would prefer his club to play in a different league then what is wrong with that? If you decided tomorrow that you’d prefer the Irish teams to play in another league then I imagine you’d want to be allowed your say? I bet there’s a load of South African fans against joining the Pro14 - are they not allowed to voice there opinion either?!

Sorry but at no point has Kingshu has said no one is allowed an opinion so to claim so is just lies

And at no point did Phil actually say ‘boohoo the English don’t want us and we’re stuck with the Irish and Scots’. It’s about what’s implied.

And it wasn't even implied

He mocked Phil which he is entitled to do, you just created a strawman argument for some unknown reason

By coming out with a sarcy response like that he’s basically saying “Oh sod off Phil, I’ve had enough of your rants about how much you hate the league and how much you want away from it”. Of course it is.

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

I’m personally happy being in a league with the Scots and Irish, but it’s a bit childish to come out with that retort Kingshu! If a poster would prefer his club to play in a different league then what is wrong with that? If you decided tomorrow that you’d prefer the Irish teams to play in another league then I imagine you’d want to be allowed your say? I bet there’s a load of South African fans against joining the Pro14 - are they not allowed to voice there opinion either?!

Sorry but at no point has Kingshu has said no one is allowed an opinion so to claim so is just lies

And at no point did Phil actually say ‘boohoo the English don’t want us and we’re stuck with the Irish and Scots’. It’s about what’s implied.

And it wasn't even implied

He mocked Phil which he is entitled to do, you just created a strawman argument for some unknown reason

By coming out with a sarcy response like that he’s basically saying “Oh sod off Phil, I’ve had enough of your rants about how much you hate the league and how much you want away from it”. Of course it is.

I’d love to hear your interpretation of the post then.

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

I’m personally happy being in a league with the Scots and Irish, but it’s a bit childish to come out with that retort Kingshu! If a poster would prefer his club to play in a different league then what is wrong with that? If you decided tomorrow that you’d prefer the Irish teams to play in another league then I imagine you’d want to be allowed your say? I bet there’s a load of South African fans against joining the Pro14 - are they not allowed to voice there opinion either?!

Sorry but at no point has Kingshu has said no one is allowed an opinion so to claim so is just lies

And at no point did Phil actually say ‘boohoo the English don’t want us and we’re stuck with the Irish and Scots’. It’s about what’s implied.

And it wasn't even implied

He mocked Phil which he is entitled to do, you just created a strawman argument for some unknown reason

By coming out with a sarcy response like that he’s basically saying “Oh sod off Phil, I’ve had enough of your rants about how much you hate the league and how much you want away from it”. Of course it is.

I’d love to hear your interpretation of the post then.

You mean you didn't get the implication from my previous posts, those mind reading skills of yours only intermittent?

I mean, it's not like I already stated what I thought or anything

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

I’m personally happy being in a league with the Scots and Irish, but it’s a bit childish to come out with that retort Kingshu! If a poster would prefer his club to play in a different league then what is wrong with that? If you decided tomorrow that you’d prefer the Irish teams to play in another league then I imagine you’d want to be allowed your say? I bet there’s a load of South African fans against joining the Pro14 - are they not allowed to voice there opinion either?!

Sorry but at no point has Kingshu has said no one is allowed an opinion so to claim so is just lies

And at no point did Phil actually say ‘boohoo the English don’t want us and we’re stuck with the Irish and Scots’. It’s about what’s implied.

And it wasn't even implied

He mocked Phil which he is entitled to do, you just created a strawman argument for some unknown reason

By coming out with a sarcy response like that he’s basically saying “Oh sod off Phil, I’ve had enough of your rants about how much you hate the league and how much you want away from it”. Of course it is.

I’d love to hear your interpretation of the post then.

You mean you didn't get the implication from my previous posts, those mind reading skills of yours only intermittent?

I mean, it's not like I already stated what I thought or anything

Nope, you have not stated what you think Kingshu’s post means.

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

I’m personally happy being in a league with the Scots and Irish, but it’s a bit childish to come out with that retort Kingshu! If a poster would prefer his club to play in a different league then what is wrong with that? If you decided tomorrow that you’d prefer the Irish teams to play in another league then I imagine you’d want to be allowed your say? I bet there’s a load of South African fans against joining the Pro14 - are they not allowed to voice there opinion either?!

Sorry but at no point has Kingshu has said no one is allowed an opinion so to claim so is just lies

And at no point did Phil actually say ‘boohoo the English don’t want us and we’re stuck with the Irish and Scots’. It’s about what’s implied.

And it wasn't even implied

He mocked Phil which he is entitled to do, you just created a strawman argument for some unknown reason

By coming out with a sarcy response like that he’s basically saying “Oh sod off Phil, I’ve had enough of your rants about how much you hate the league and how much you want away from it”. Of course it is.

I’d love to hear your interpretation of the post then.

You mean you didn't get the implication from my previous posts, those mind reading skills of yours only intermittent?

I mean, it's not like I already stated what I thought or anything

Nope, you have not stated what you think Kingshu’s post means.

Really?

He mocked Phil which he is entitled to do, you just created a strawman argument for some unknown reason

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

I’m personally happy being in a league with the Scots and Irish, but it’s a bit childish to come out with that retort Kingshu! If a poster would prefer his club to play in a different league then what is wrong with that? If you decided tomorrow that you’d prefer the Irish teams to play in another league then I imagine you’d want to be allowed your say? I bet there’s a load of South African fans against joining the Pro14 - are they not allowed to voice there opinion either?!

Sorry but at no point has Kingshu has said no one is allowed an opinion so to claim so is just lies

And at no point did Phil actually say ‘boohoo the English don’t want us and we’re stuck with the Irish and Scots’. It’s about what’s implied.

And it wasn't even implied

He mocked Phil which he is entitled to do, you just created a strawman argument for some unknown reason

By coming out with a sarcy response like that he’s basically saying “Oh sod off Phil, I’ve had enough of your rants about how much you hate the league and how much you want away from it”. Of course it is.

I’d love to hear your interpretation of the post then.

You mean you didn't get the implication from my previous posts, those mind reading skills of yours only intermittent?

I mean, it's not like I already stated what I thought or anything

Nope, you have not stated what you think Kingshu’s post means.

Really?

He mocked Phil which he is entitled to do, you just created a strawman argument for some unknown reason

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Oh boo hoo the English don't want us and we're stuck with the Irish and Scots again.

I’m personally happy being in a league with the Scots and Irish, but it’s a bit childish to come out with that retort Kingshu! If a poster would prefer his club to play in a different league then what is wrong with that? If you decided tomorrow that you’d prefer the Irish teams to play in another league then I imagine you’d want to be allowed your say? I bet there’s a load of South African fans against joining the Pro14 - are they not allowed to voice there opinion either?!

Sorry but at no point has Kingshu has said no one is allowed an opinion so to claim so is just lies

And at no point did Phil actually say ‘boohoo the English don’t want us and we’re stuck with the Irish and Scots’. It’s about what’s implied.

And it wasn't even implied

He mocked Phil which he is entitled to do, you just created a strawman argument for some unknown reason

By coming out with a sarcy response like that he’s basically saying “Oh sod off Phil, I’ve had enough of your rants about how much you hate the league and how much you want away from it”. Of course it is.

I’d love to hear your interpretation of the post then.

You mean you didn't get the implication from my previous posts, those mind reading skills of yours only intermittent?

I mean, it's not like I already stated what I thought or anything

Nope, you have not stated what you think Kingshu’s post means.

Really?

He mocked Phil which he is entitled to do, you just created a strawman argument for some unknown reason

Well you will insist on embarrassing yourself

You’ve described what Kinghu did (mocking) not what his post implies.

Why does it have to imply anything?

Because on this occasion it does! Hence why he wrote ‘we’ when speaking about wales, yet he is not welsh. He was not being literal.

Ok you're right