Leicester Tigers 18-19

by **LondonTiger** Wed 11 Jul 2018, 11:53 am

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures

Pre-Season

Saturday 11th August - Cardiff Blues (a)
Friday 17th August - Benetton Treviso (a)
Friday 24th August - London Irish (h)

Gallagher Premiership

SEPTEMBER
Saturday 1st 16:30 Exeter Chiefs (a)
Saturday 8th 15:00 Newcastle Falcons (h)
Sunday 16th 15:00 Wasps (a)
Sunday 23rd 15:00 Worcester Warriors (h)
Sunday 30th 15:00 Sale Sharks (h)

OCTOBER
Saturday 6th 15:00 Northampton Saints (a - Twickenham)

NOVEMBER
Friday 16th 19:45 Gloucester (a)
Sunday 25th 15:00 Saracens (h)
Friday 30th 19:45 Bristol (a)

DECEMBER
21/22/23 Harlequins (H)
28/29/30 Bath (A)

JANUARY
4/5/6 Gloucester (H)

FEBRUARY
15/16/17 Saracens (A)
22/23/24 Worcester Warriors (A)

MARCH
1/2/3 Wasps (H)
8/9/10 Sale Sharks (A)
22/23/24 Northampton Saints (H)

APRIL
5/6/7 Exeter Chiefs (H)
12/13/14 Newcastle Falcons (A)
26/27/28 Bristol (H)

MAY
3/4/5 Harlequins (A)
18 Bath (H)
24/25 Semi

JUNE
1st Final

European Champions Cup
12/13/14 October - Round 1
19/20/21 October - Round 2
7/8/9 December - Round 3
14/15/16 December - Round 4
11/12/13 January - Round 5
18/19/20 January - Round 6
29/30/31 March - 1/4 Finals
19/20/21 April - Semis
11th May - Final

Premiership Rugby Cup

Saturday October 27th 15:00 Saracens (a)
Saturday November 3rd 15:00 Worcester Warriors(h)
Friday November 19th 19:45 Sale Sharks
January 25/26/27 Northampton (a)
February 9th Semi-finals
March 16th Final

Squad and Coaching Team:

Head Coach: Matt O'Connor
Forwards Coach: Mark Bakewell
Assistant Coach: Geordan Murphy
Scrum Coach: Boris Stankovich
Senior Development coach: Brett Deacon
Team Manager: Teresa Carrington
Head of Rugby Operations: Ged Glyn

First Team Squad:
(as on Tigers website)

Props: Greg Bateman, Dan Cole, Gaston Cortes, Ellis Genge, Facundo Gigena, Owen Hills
Hookers: Jake Kerr, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Jimmmy Stevens, Tom Youngs
Second Row: Mike Fitzgerald, Graham Kitchener, Will Spencer, James Voss, Harry Wells
Back Row: Dave Denton, Will Evans, Sione Kalamafoni, Valention Mapapalangi, Brendon O'Connor, Guy Thompson, Fred Tuilagi, Mike Williams

Half Backs: Joe Ford, George Ford, Sam Harrison, Matt Toomua, Ben Youngs
Outside Backs: Jonah Holmes, Jonny May, Gareth Owen, Matt Smith, Matthew Tait, Charlie Thacker, Adam Thompstone, Manu Tuilagi, Telusa Veainu, George Worth

Development Squad:

Forwards: Taylor Gough, Sam Grahamslaw, Joe Heyes, Cameron Jordan, Henri Lavin, Sam Lewis, Keston Lines, Harry Mahoney, Tommy Reffell, Thom Smith
Backs: Sam Aspland-Robinson, Tom Hardwicke, Jordan Olowefela, Harry Simmons, Ben White

by formerly known as Sam Mon 25 Mar 2019, 11:58 am

I'm with LT. Don't know where the next win will come from. We look bereft of both intensity and ideas. A lot of these senior players are leaving in the summer and it can't come soon enough. Hopefully the BoD will pull their finger out and write a suitably big cheque to get a top DOR in.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 28 Mar 2019, 10:29 am

Decision has been made that Dave Denton's will sit out the rest of the season. he has been unable to shake of the concussion symptoms following his head injury against Saints back in early October. For his own health I hope that this enables him to get right - and if necessary take the decision to retire if that is the best course of action.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 28 Mar 2019, 10:43 am

Same LT. Can only applaud the club in their dealings with this. He's seen all the specialists and the club medical team has put Denton's health first which is as it should be. I would not be surprised if he retired in the summer. Hopefully not because he had a promising start and looked likely to show my doubting of his abilities to be wrong. It will mean he won't be at the RWC unless Scotland are being a bit reckless.

Cockers has given an interview where he points the finger of blame directly at the BoD. Most fans would agree with that.

We are also rumoured to have sounded out Chieka who looks likely to leave the Wallabies post RWC. His wages are allegedly at a prohibitive level but who knows a deal might be done. At least we are looking at the experienced DOR we need to oversee the coaching structure.

by **BigGee** Thu 28 Mar 2019, 11:26 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:Same LT. Can only applaud the club in their dealings with this. He's seen all the specialists and the club medical team has put Denton's health first which is as it should be. I would not be surprised if he retired in the summer. Hopefully not because he had a promising start and looked likely to show my doubting of his abilities to be wrong. It will mean he won't be at the RWC unless Scotland are being a bit reckless.

Cockers has given an interview where he points the finger of blame directly at the BoD. Most fans would agree with that.

We are also rumoured to have sounded out Chieka who looks likely to leave the Wallabies post RWC. His wages are allegedly at a prohibitive level but who knows a deal might be done. At least we are looking at the experienced DOR we need to oversee the coaching structure.

Unfortunately for Denton, he has already had concussion issues earlier in his career whilst at Edinburgh, it is the accumulated and repeated nature of this that should be really worrying for him and yes, retirement might be an option if it does not clear up.

Kudos to Leicester though for the way they have dealt with it, definitely putting the player first.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 28 Mar 2019, 12:16 pm

It is a concern with Denton. It will be tough to find a like for like replacement should the decision be taken in the summer for him to retire. Obviously you'd hope he can carry on because a backrow of Taufua, Thomson, Denton should be excellent and cover all bases with some good options to rotate in with the academy graduates, Wallace and Kalamafoni.

We've seen it both ways at Tigers, we've given players ample time to recover and they've come back strong and carried on and we gave another flanker the most of last season to recover and he announced his retirement this time last season.

by TightHEAD Thu 28 Mar 2019, 3:37 pm

When Leicester go down i'm sure some of the of your rivals will give you a warm up game pre-season. Very Happy

by formerly known as Sam Thu 28 Mar 2019, 4:38 pm

TightHEAD wrote:When Leicester go down i'm sure some of the of your rivals will give you a warm up game pre-season.

Be a big boost in TV revenue for the Championship as Sky tries to add to the half dozen games or they bother to show at the minute. Attendances might go up as well with a return to winning rugby.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 29 Mar 2019, 3:53 pm

Tigers development head coach Ant Allen makes four changes to the side that beat Sale Jets on Monday night for the Premiership Rugby Shield match against Wasps on Saturday (March 30) at Broadstreet RFC.

Loosehead prop Owen Hills and international hooker Tatafu Polota-Nau come into the front row to join tighthead David Feao, who scored one of Tigers’ six tries at Heywood Road earlier in the week.

Sam Lewis captains the side alongside Cam Jordan in an unchanged second row, while Fred Tuilagi swaps the No8 shirt for Valentino Mapapalangi’s No6, with the Tongan international shifting to the back of the scrum. Tigers Academy graduate Henri Lavin completes the back row.

Tom Hardwick resumes at fly-half to link up with Loughborough Students scrum-half Will Findlay and a backline made up of five guest players from both Loughborough University and Doncaster Knights.

Aaron Tait keeps his slot on the left wing, while centres Tim Bitirim and Elliott Creed also pick up from where they left off on Monday. James Spencer, who started at full-back against the Jets, switches to the right wing while Loughborough team-mate Josh Lewis comes in at 15.

In the replacements, Ross McMillan, Campese Ma’afu and Loughborough tighthead Osman Dimen will offer front row support, while Tommy Reffell makes his return from an injury picked up on Wales U20 duty. Tigers Academy graduates Taylor Gough and Jonny Law are joined by Hartpury’s Joe Margetts at 20, 21 and 22. Charlie Hudson, who also dotted down at Heywood Road on Monday, will offer back three cover.

Speaking ahead of the match, Tigers development head coach Ant Allen said: “The 23 that travelled up to Sale put in a hell of a shift on Monday night, but now it’s about backing that performance up against Wasps.

“We’ve got a good mix of experience and emerging talent, and so we’re looking forward to the challenge.”

Match tickets are available on the gate at Broadstreet RFC at £5 for adults (including parking) and FREE for under-16s.

Supporters unable to make the trip can follow the action with updates provided LIVE on Twitter throughout the game.

Leicester Tigers Development XV (Wasps, Broadstreet RFC, Saturday 2.00pm)

15 Josh Lewis

14 James Spencer

13 Elliott Creed

12 Tim Bitirim

11 Aaron Tait

10 Tom Hardwick

9 Will Findlay

1 Owen Hills

2 Tatafu Polota-Nau

3 David Feao

4 Cam Jordan

5 Sam Lewis (c)

6 Fred Tuilagi

7 Henri Lavin

8 Valentino Mapapalangi

Replacements

16 Ross McMillan

17 Campese Ma’afu

18 Osman Dimen

19 Tommy Reffell

20 Taylor Gough

21 Jonny Law

22 Joe Margetts

23 Charlie Hudson

Wasps A: 15 Cameron Anderson, 14 Taju Atta, 13 Ross Neal, 12 Michael Le Bourgeois, 11 Callum Sirker, 10 Jacob Umaga, 9 Will Porter (c); 1 Tom West, 2 Antonio Harris, 3 David Langley, 4 Tim Cardall, 5 Charlie Matthews, 6 Alex Rieder, 7 James Seabrook, 8 Joe Atkinson

Replacements: 16 Gabriel Oghre, 17 Simon McIntyre, 18 Kieran Brookes, 19 Josh Fenner, 20 Kieran Curran, 21 Ollie Fox, 22 Sunni Jardine, 23 Tom Bacon

The lads will have done very well if they get a result out of that game. Wasps have a lot of experience in that team.

by TightHEAD Mon 01 Apr 2019, 10:11 am

So Mike Ford has rocked up, not a bad short term appointment but the Physio will be busy!

by formerly known as Sam Mon 01 Apr 2019, 10:35 am

TightHEAD wrote:So Mike Ford has rocked up, not a bad short term appointment but the Physio will be busy!

The head physio wears a flat cap and is older than Mike so will probably be fine.

Experience, got Bath playing good rugby and knows how to organise a defence. Could have done with him 3 months ago instead of Phil Blake really.

by bluestonevedder Mon 01 Apr 2019, 3:44 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:So Mike Ford has rocked up, not a bad short term appointment but the Physio will be busy!

The head physio wears a flat cap and is older than Mike so will probably be fine.

Experience, got Bath playing good rugby and knows how to organise a defence. Could have done with him 3 months ago instead of Phil Blake really.

Agreed. Just echoes the chaos really.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 01 Apr 2019, 9:10 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:So Mike Ford has rocked up, not a bad short term appointment but the Physio will be busy!

The head physio wears a flat cap and is older than Mike so will probably be fine.

Experience, got Bath playing good rugby and knows how to organise a defence. Could have done with him 3 months ago instead of Phil Blake really.

Agreed. Just echoes the chaos really.

The distinct lack of direction from BoD just stirs the chaos. How there was no plan B to MOC if his head was on the chopping block at the start of the season is just outrageous.

by Gooseberry Tue 02 Apr 2019, 2:30 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:So Mike Ford has rocked up, not a bad short term appointment but the Physio will be busy!

The head physio wears a flat cap and is older than Mike so will probably be fine.

Experience, got Bath playing good rugby and knows how to organise a defence. Could have done with him 3 months ago instead of Phil Blake really.

Agreed. Just echoes the chaos really.

The distinct lack of direction from BoD just stirs the chaos. How there was no plan B to MOC if his head was on the chopping block at the start of the season is just outrageous.

But maybe I might get a glint of admittance that its also a sign that giving Murphy the full time job when they did was equally bonkers?

I dont think in itself this is a bad appointment and at least the guy has some authority and pedigree. That doesn't excuse the seemingly random month by month decisions the BoD is taking (and it would appear with little input from Murphy) and continued sticking of fingers in holes. The justification was to give stability, and the excuse that an inside man would give some level of consistency, but putting their eggs in a broken basket has not made an omelette.

It also does leave Murphy seriously undermined, whilst still on a permanent contract and getting paid to do increasingly little. Its really hard to see how he gets to keep a job long term now, which is sad for him and Tigers. Hes wasn't exactly thrown under the bus by being given the cover job so suddenly, but was left in the middle of the road without any knowledge of how to get out of the way of one. Its hard now to see him not losing it once the seasons up, even if results do improve it will be Ford who gets the credit.

We certainly can agree that finding a credible DoR who can select a coherent coaching team and manage the weight of change thats inevitably going to happen in the squad in a world cup year. Something thats very difficult for an absolute outsider to do, so knowing the board they will probably promote Murphy or just go back to MOC again and offer him a higher position than the one he was sacked from.
Just because.

The one thing Im holding on to in all this is that next season will be a mess for everyone with the world cup effect. And unless this does cause a sudden massive change then Tigers will miss the European Cup and have a bit more breathing space and focus on the league. Maybe not a bad thing when the whole structure needs rebuilding top to bottom and some confidence found within the team. Season 20/21 could see Tigers back on track, but it never should have got in this much of a mess.

by yappysnap Tue 02 Apr 2019, 9:58 pm

Crazy isn't it? A few seasons back you'd never imagine Tigers missing playoffs, let alone being in the relegation zone. Just shows what Poopie management of the whole club will do though.

Can't believe you guys went back to MoC like you did after how terrible he has been, that was really where it all went wrong, since then it's been a case of trying to bail a flooding ship.

by formerly known as Sam Wed 03 Apr 2019, 12:50 pm

I think the Ford appointment is good. He has a good relationship with Murphy and currently our coaching staff need some more experience and Ford really revitalised Bath before it all fell apart (re Burgess).

The board have to get the coaching staff sorted in the summer. Leaked approaches for Edwards and Chieka are showing the sort of calibre we're looking at and quite frankly the sort of calibre that should have been appointed instead of MOC. That appointment 90% of Tigers fans didn't want and knew it would not work, we did not appreciate how badly it would go.

Yappy, things have been sliding for a few years. We never adequately replaced coaching staff as they left giving ever greater control to Cockers who is a very good coach but not a good DOR. His input into the recruitment was to maintain a senior squad and all but abandon the development squad with exceptions made for obvious outstanding candidates. The appointment of Mauger caused massive problems as a civil war broke out behind the scenes and the team was neither one nor the other because of that power struggle. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we should have appointed a senior DOR above Cockers and got Cockers back to head coach and out more onto the training paddock doing what he does best.

Instead we got rid of all the experience behind the scenes and appointed a head coach who was not universally liked first time round and who was very happy to ignore the development squad at Tigers and was accused of similar at Leinster. The misuse of the development squad has meant we have an average squad of overly expensive players. Far too much money taken up by journeymen instead of using cheaper homegrown talent supplemented with top class recruits (more in line with how we built the great Tigers early 2000 team). Going to be a couple of tough seasons as Gooseberry says whilst we sort this out.

by king_carlos Thu 04 Apr 2019, 5:50 pm

Some welcome good news that Tommy Reffell is back fit. I wouldn't be surprised if he features in the final few weeks.

Kalamafoni is still unavailable and O'Connor has been below his best since the latest injuries.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 04 Apr 2019, 6:42 pm

Personally I'd be looking to include Evans and Reffell in the 23 with Thomson at 8. Doubt Murphy will. BOC's workrate is still good he just looks rusty. As Reffell is getting the PR treatment on the website I assume he'll be in the squad.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 05 Apr 2019, 12:05 pm

Leicester Tigers (v Exeter Chiefs, Welford Road, Saturday 4.30pm)

15 Matt Toomua
14 Jonny May
13 Manu Tuilagi
12 Kyle Eastmond
11 Jordan Olowofela
10 George Ford
9 Sam Harrison
1 Ellis Genge
2 Tom Youngs (c)
3 Dan Cole
4 Will Spencer
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Mike Fitzgerald
7 Mike Williams
8 Brendon O’Connor

Replacements
16 Jake Kerr
17 Facundo Gigena
18 Joe Heyes
19 Valentino Mapapalangi
20 Guy Thompson
21 Ben White
22 Gareth Owen
23 Sam Aspland-Robinson

Well it's different. We aren't going to try and out play them up front with that pack, looks like we're set for a try and smash back their ball carriers kind of game.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 05 Apr 2019, 12:09 pm

CHIEFS SIDE TO FACE LEICESTER TIGERS

15 Santiago Cordero
14 Jack Nowell
13 Henry Slade
12 Ollie Devoto
11 Olly Woodburn
10 Joe Simmonds
9 Nic White
1 Alec Hepburn
2 Jack Yeandle (capt)
3 Harry Williams
4 Dave Dennis
5 Ollie Atkins
6 Dave Ewers
7 Don Armand
8 Matt Kvesic

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie
17 Ben Moon
18 Tomas Francis
19 Sean Lonsdale
20 Richard Capstick
21 Jack Maunder
22 Sam Hill
23 Ian Whitten

by king_carlos Fri 05 Apr 2019, 2:25 pm

Thompson on the bench after being one of few players to play well this season.

Toomua at fullback...

Two lumps at 6 and 7 would seem a direct attempt to oppose Ewers and Armand's ability to get over the gain line during the Chiefs phase play. The fact that Williams is half the player the Armand is makes it significantly less likely to work.

" I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it", Terry Pratchett.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 05 Apr 2019, 3:03 pm

Love the Sir Terry quote. It is so very apt.

Pack looks like they are going to be piling into the contact and then off their feet knackered by 30 minutes when Chiefs run in three tries.

Toomua at 15 will hopefully spark some extra creativity at the back and should help the tactical kicking which is very heavily reliant on Ford and Harrison.

by king_carlos Fri 05 Apr 2019, 4:28 pm

Toomua at 15 may well be a case of last man standing given the back three injuries.

Maul defence may also be at the forefront of the selection. Chiefs are missing Hill, Skinner and Lees so maybe they are hoping to nullify one of Chiefs biggest threats. Once again the personnel fail to inspire confidence if that's the plan.

It looks like a pack selected to batter a win out at all costs. That is what Tigers need to do but Chiefs aren't the side you want to do it against.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 06 Apr 2019, 7:46 pm

Well there were positives from the first half. We made breaks, defensive structure looked good and the set pieces were working well. We gave away a couple of penalties fell off a couple of tries and Chiefs pounced. We weren't as clinical and Ford had to do an awful lot himself.

Second half we just didn't turn up and Chiefs found another gear. Tom Youngs was unlucky but you can't argue with the colour of the card.

by king_carlos Sat 06 Apr 2019, 8:25 pm

The performance had more positives than expected even if the scoreline was as bad as predicted.

Ford was good once again with little to work with.

Olowofela is a raw but deserve persevering with I think. If he learns to back his raw pace more then he will be a real weapon.

Kerr should start regardless of whether OTY gets a ban or not. He's been our best hooker all season.

Apparently Eastmond has a torn hamstring. I'd rather Toomua at 12 in this mire though. Toomua hasn't played to his quality but given the situation in the table I'd take his defensive organisation and extra kicking option over Eastmond.

I try to be positive as a fan. The vitriol often aimed at an individuals character as well as their performances in sport really irks me - 606v2 having less of that than other forums is a reason I enjoy positing here.

That said there are many players in this squad that I will not miss seeing in a Tigers shirt.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 06 Apr 2019, 9:28 pm

Yeah I agree on the point about the players leaving that won't be missed. I'm very much looking forward to the remodelling of the pack. Quite a lot of deadwood in that department, credit where it's due they all played hard today.

I thought we looked much better in attack with Toomua at 15 it gave us a lot of extra width. Unfortunately he was awful in defence and at 12 in the second half we really didn't have any shape in the backs. The midfield of Ford, Eastmond and Manu looked good in attack and we did cut open Chiefs a few times with their midfield doubling up on Manu and leaving room for Ford to show off his footwork.

I'm hoping against a team of lesser ability than Exeter we can hold them out more effectively, maul defence looked really good today and scrum was dominant. With a bit more shape in attack we will score points.

by king_carlos Sat 06 Apr 2019, 10:13 pm

If the rumoured signings come through then the squad should be moving in the right direction.

Kitchener, Williams and O'Connor on the way out. Green, Lavanini and Taufua in is improvement where needed in the pack.

Similar with Reid and Taute bolstering the midfield.

Hopefully Gigena gets re-signed as well. He's improved a lot this season.

by bluestonevedder Mon 08 Apr 2019, 11:00 am

king_carlos wrote:If the rumoured signings come through then the squad should be moving in the right direction.

Kitchener, Williams and O'Connor on the way out. Green, Lavanini and Taufua in is improvement where needed in the pack.

Similar with Reid and Taute bolstering the midfield.

Hopefully Gigena gets re-signed as well. He's improved a lot this season.

I found myself thinking during the game that for Kitchener especially, these final few games in a Tigers' shirt are pretty odd. He's effectively battling to save Tigers while knowing that it could jeopardise Warrior's place in the premiership next season. There really isn't a motivation for him to play well. Same for Williams who's off regardless, and O'Connor, who I thought looked pretty lacklustre in spells.

by eirebilly Mon 08 Apr 2019, 11:16 am

Forgive me if this has already been explained ad infinitum (have not read all the comments) but how is such a big club with big players Leicester in a relegation battle?

Is it the coaching, the players or the culture at the club which has gone down hill so badly this season?

by **LondonTiger** Mon 08 Apr 2019, 11:36 am

eirebilly wrote:Forgive me if this has already been explained ad infinitum (have not read all the comments) but how is such a big club with big players Leicester in a relegation battle?

Is it the coaching, the players or the culture at the club which has gone down hill so badly this season?

It has been a steady decline with numerous factors. The quality of the squad is not good enough to threaten the top teams in England and Europe, but the squad quality is better than being in a relegation fight. Since we last won the Premiership in 2013 (and before) we said Love sacks to developing players or rebuiding - instead always concentrating on shoring up with "journeymen". The quality of play in 2014 and 2015 was poor - but we kept making the play-offs. Too much money was spent on backs, not enough time on the pack. Coaching has been poor - and really that is the main reason we may be relegated, but is only one symptom of the decline.

by Exiledinborders Mon 08 Apr 2019, 4:15 pm

eirebilly wrote:Forgive me if this has already been explained ad infinitum (have not read all the comments) but how is such a big club with big players Leicester in a relegation battle?

Is it the coaching, the players or the culture at the club which has gone down hill so badly this season?

I think the premise of your question is wrong. Leicester do not many have "big players". Ford, Ben Youngs, Genge, May ... that's about it. In certain areas they are really third rate. Which top club would want any of Leicester's back row or indeed any of their back five?

Recruitment has been awful for years. I do not believe it is lack of money. They just seem to bring in average players on big wages e.g. Toomua. Some decisions seem bizarre. However good May is swapping him for Slater was utter madness. As a Glaws fan I am delighted but you have to question Leicester's sanity given the lack of grunt in their pack.

by Geordie Mon 08 Apr 2019, 4:30 pm

They'll have Green in there next season...the grunt will start to come back. Big Falcons loss.

by Gooseberry Mon 08 Apr 2019, 5:49 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Forgive me if this has already been explained ad infinitum (have not read all the comments) but how is such a big club with big players Leicester in a relegation battle?

Is it the coaching, the players or the culture at the club which has gone down hill so badly this season?
I think the premise of your question is wrong. Leicester do not many have "big players". Ford, Ben Youngs, Genge, May ... that's about it. In certain areas they are really third rate. Which top club would want any of Leicester's back row or indeed any of their back five?

Recruitment has been awful for years. I do not believe it is lack of money. They just seem to bring in average players on big wages e.g. Toomua. Some decisions seem bizarre. However good May is swapping him for Slater was utter madness. As a Glaws fan I am delighted but you have to question Leicester's sanity given the lack of grunt in their pack.

Dan Cole only has 88 test caps right?
Manu Tullagi? Not a big player? Really?
Polota-Nau 87 caps for Aus
Denton 42 caps for scotland
Mafua 55 OK for Fiji but still...
Toomua 40 for Aus ( an average player by premiership team standards? c'mon!)

To say they dont have many big players is a bit odd. Ones who have played well for them, especially this season ...well thats a different thing. As a squad they have massively under performed all year, and its got worse not better. Having guys like May back who was brilliant for England hasnt changed things, its not the players as such is the team and the environment and the coaching thats taken a pretty good squad and left it struggling to beat teams with weaker players.
No one could argue that theres been some bad signings, but most of the players signed on decent contracts came with good reputations and have performed better elsewhere than they have this year for Tigers. Eastmond has been a real let down for Tigers, but looked like a great capture when he came as a player who had regularly been a top performer in the premiership but wasn't likely to be away for England, he used to be a big deal.

Its not a squad that should be flirting with relegation, injuries was the excuse, then it was players on international duty. They are still rubbish even with most people back. I do agree the backrow has been short on quality for a club with their ambition (and tbf has been made worse by injuries) but you could shuffle pretty much any under the cap squad into this environment and it wouldnt function well. Look off the field and the players reactions to the lack of direction rather than at the make up of the squad for why they've been so bad. The same group has got progressively worse as the seasons gone on. Its not even a massively different squad to the one that finished fifth last year and didnt get quite so badly humiliated in Europe.

On the Slater/May thing... Tigers have not been too short on quality locks, at the time he went they had more than they needed. Try scoring wingers had been a big problem since Varndell went. May also covers a bit of fullback, and at the time wasnt the firtnameontheteamsheet type he is for England now so in theory might have been available more often. Its probably nt panned out too well in the long run for Tigers since Slater would have played a lot more often than May has done, but his tries have still been very valuable and their other wingers really arent contributing many despite the focus on attacking play.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 08 Apr 2019, 7:29 pm

Tigers were also told that Slater had to go by MOC so getting the deal was quite good.

MOC was the next in line of a succession of terrible appointments. Starting with promoting Cockers above head coach then the continual internal appointments of ex-Tigers ahead of those with better qualifications. The board's inability to pull the trigger at the end of last season a perfect example of the lack of any long term plan.

Currently there is one or two forwards who could wear numbers 4-8 other side's would want in their starting 15. Spencer's injury and suspension then Denton's injury has made the mediocrity look worse than it is. The lack of any real form from the squad players making worse.

Currently the club is in a real mess and is in need of a complete overhaul. The only benefit is the quality of the academy players being generated. Thankfully we have removed those coaches who would have ignored their potential so they might be able to rescue us.

by yappysnap Tue 09 Apr 2019, 12:37 am

Reminds me a lot of where Quins were last season.

We brought in new coaches, split the head job role and made a few squad changes and look at the difference.

Culture is massive, if it's bad and the players don't commit then you need a total overhaul.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 09 Apr 2019, 8:13 am

Rumours are linking us with a DOR to come in over Murphy. That would make sense. Depending on their specialisation I expect we'll see movement in defence and/or forwards coaches. Our defence coach only has a contract until the end of the season and Bakewell the forwards coach hasn't really done enough to remain. Chieka and Edwards currently linked but the fear is that Ford and Murphy will patch the side together enough to win a couple of games and then get the job for next season and the farce will continue.

I don't think the culture is toxic, I think it is confused due to the coach turnover. The players are probably a little too comfortable as well, an experienced DOR who will challenge then will get a lot more out of them than Geordan is at present.

It probably is similar to Quins last season. The signs were there for us last season and had we got rid of MOC at the end of last season as the majority of fans wanted and the BoD actually discussed then we could have challenged you for Gustard and perhaps got hold of Vesty before Saints. Then again that would have been more ex-Tigers.

by bluestonevedder Tue 09 Apr 2019, 11:25 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers were also told that Slater had to go by MOC so getting the deal was quite good.

MOC was the next in line of a succession of terrible appointments. Starting with promoting Cockers above head coach then the continual internal appointments of ex-Tigers ahead of those with better qualifications. The board's inability to pull the trigger at the end of last season a perfect example of the lack of any long term plan.

Currently there is one or two forwards who could wear numbers 4-8 other side's would want in their starting 15. Spencer's injury and suspension then Denton's injury has made the mediocrity look worse than it is. The lack of any real form from the squad players making worse.

Currently the club is in a real mess and is in need of a complete overhaul. The only benefit is the quality of the academy players being generated. Thankfully we have removed those coaches who would have ignored their potential so they might be able to rescue us.

What do you mean by this Sam? Did MOC and Slater not see eye to eye?

by formerly known as Sam Tue 09 Apr 2019, 5:18 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers were also told that Slater had to go by MOC so getting the deal was quite good.

MOC was the next in line of a succession of terrible appointments. Starting with promoting Cockers above head coach then the continual internal appointments of ex-Tigers ahead of those with better qualifications. The board's inability to pull the trigger at the end of last season a perfect example of the lack of any long term plan.

Currently there is one or two forwards who could wear numbers 4-8 other side's would want in their starting 15. Spencer's injury and suspension then Denton's injury has made the mediocrity look worse than it is. The lack of any real form from the squad players making worse.

Currently the club is in a real mess and is in need of a complete overhaul. The only benefit is the quality of the academy players being generated. Thankfully we have removed those coaches who would have ignored their potential so they might be able to rescue us.

What do you mean by this Sam? Did MOC and Slater not see eye to eye?

Those were the rumours. Somewhat substantiated by Slater in an interview when asked why Glaws and he replied something along the lines of "they actually wanted me".

There were plenty of rumours of MOC not making friends first time round. Moody is fairly scathing in his autobiography and there were supposedly others (Twelvetrees and Newby).

by Geordie Wed 10 Apr 2019, 11:46 am

Well are you ready for the battle of KP? Very Happy

by formerly known as Sam Wed 10 Apr 2019, 1:49 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well are you ready for the battle of KP?

We're not ready to fight our way out of a wet paper bag at present.

by king_carlos Wed 10 Apr 2019, 2:26 pm

Harry Wells being fit is a boost. Kitchener and Williams have been so poor that I desperately hope Wells comes straight back into the starting XV.

Matt Smith could come straight onto the bench as well now he's recovered from the shoulder/elbow injury. Some experience, heart and defensive solidity is direly needed.

1.Genge 2.Kerr 3.Cole 4.Wells 5.Spencer 6.Fitzgerald 7.O'Connor 8.Thompson
9.Harrison 10.G Ford 11.Olowofela 12.Toomua 13.Tuilagi 14.Sarto 15.May

16.TPN 17.Gigena 18.Heyes 19.Kitchener 20.Reffell 21.White 22.Smith 23.Aspland-Robinson

Last week we started possibly the worst 4-8 that I've seen Tigers field in the Prem:

4.Spencer 5.Kitchener 6.Fitzgerald 7.Williams 8.O'Connor

If that starts again that I expect Graham, Hardie and Chick to have a very good day on the plastic pitch.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 10 Apr 2019, 2:47 pm

I would like to see White start.

by king_carlos Wed 10 Apr 2019, 3:11 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I would like to see White start.

I'd be happy enough with that. Shazam has had next to nothing to work with but has been glacial with the scraps of ball he gets.

I hope Harry Simmons gets back into the frame next season after being so disrupted by injury.

by formerly known as Sam Wed 10 Apr 2019, 5:00 pm

I'm not sure if Simmons is injured again or just not being risked in the A league. He played a few weeks back and on the highlights he looked very lively. Not played in the two A league games since though. Him off the bench would be ideal.

I'd also go for White starting. Looks like he's settling into this level well and he gives us some momentum.

I'd would also like to see Toomua remain at 15, controversial I know but he gave us good width in attack against Chiefs. I'd be even tempted to give Hardwick a go at 12 as he's looked good in the A league.

I concur with LT, get Wells into the second row. Barnes is due to ref and he likes a competition at the breakdown and Wells offers that.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 10 Apr 2019, 6:12 pm

Tigers Statement wrote:
The club are aware of malicious content that was aimed at the players on social media after our last match against Exeter Chiefs at Welford Road.
Due to what we believe to be not only vile and disgusting personal abuse of players, but also their families, we have been in contact with the social media platforms and the police and have reported this as a crime.

"The club is in no way above criticism ... everybody at the club accepts that we are not where want to be at the moment"
We know that our supporters share our passion for respect and fairness and have always been the best example of how to follow a team. We are sure that all of you will join us in wanting to stamp out this kind of behaviour by those that don’t represent our true support.
If we are able to ascertain who these abusers are they will receive a lifetime ban from the club and Welford Road.
Chris Rose – Tigers Head of Brand, stated: “The club is in no way above criticism ... everybody at the club accepts that we are not where want to be at the moment. We are all accountable for that and are working tirelessly to get better.”
“As the face of the club the players may well receive the brunt of what is out there, but what we see week in week out is a huge amount of blood, sweat and tears from our men.
“Every person at the club finds it an honour to work at Welford Road and so accept all opinions on how we are doing our jobs for our supporters, but when this tips over into foul abuse the club will do everything in its power to make sure people that believe that is acceptable behaviour are found and dealt with.
“There is no place in society or the Tigers Family for this, let alone in our sport which prides itself on the family-friendly nature of the game.
“We encourage any supporters that have any information that could be relevant to contact the club or Leicestershire Police and help us make a stand against anyone having to receive these kind of messages.”
One of several players to have family members targeted in posts on their personal social media channels, Leicester Tigers captain Tom Youngs said: “It isn’t a new thing for players at Tigers and in all sports to be criticised for performances that fans don’t believe are good enough.”
“At the moment, we have not been good enough and accept that it means a lot to our supporters, who are entitled to have their say on our performances.
“However, no family members are deserving of being pulled in to that criticism and nothing of the sort myself and players have received in recent weeks is appropriate, ever.”

by **LondonTiger** Wed 10 Apr 2019, 6:15 pm

Sorry about the formatting. No idea what has been posted but the statement suggests it is nasty. There is certainly no place for bringing family members into it.

by formerly known as Sam Wed 10 Apr 2019, 6:21 pm

Unfortunately social media has given everyone a voice and a small minority of people are ar$eholes who think that they can say what they like to who they like. I'm glad it's been reported to the police.

by Geordie Wed 10 Apr 2019, 9:50 pm

king_carlos wrote:

4.Spencer 5.Kitchener 6.Fitzgerald 7.Williams 8.O'Connor

If that starts again that I expect Graham, Hardie and Chick to have a very good day on the plastic pitch.

I suspect we'll see..one of

6 Graham
7 Hardie
8 Wilson
or

6 Wilson
7 Hardie / Graham
8 Negusa - Big carrying fijian

by Geordie Wed 10 Apr 2019, 9:50 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Unfortunately social media has given everyone a voice and a small minority of people are ar$eholes who think that they can say what they like to who they like. I'm glad it's been reported to the police.

Couldn't agree more Sam.

by yappysnap Thu 11 Apr 2019, 12:32 am

Any one seen the rumor on Twitter that Toomua has asked to be released early by Tigers? Not sure if it's true or not tbh just wondering if anyone else has heard anything?

by king_carlos Thu 11 Apr 2019, 12:39 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
king_carlos wrote:

4.Spencer 5.Kitchener 6.Fitzgerald 7.Williams 8.O'Connor

If that starts again that I expect Graham, Hardie and Chick to have a very good day on the plastic pitch.

I suspect we'll see..one of

6 Graham
7 Hardie
8 Wilson
or

6 Wilson
7 Hardie / Graham
8 Negusa - Big carrying fijian

I thought that Wilson had a knock, GF. My mistake.

If he's fit then that's great for Falcons and England, bad for Tigers. He's the sort of player who exposes how poor this Tigers back row is at the basics. He's in the right place at the right time, hits hard and makes very few errors. Tigers back row are not doing those things.

by Sponsored content