F1 Racing Point Belgium GP Thread

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First topic message reminder :

Imagine it'll all be temp like most street circuits

[No name Bertie]

I think Bernie Ecclestone once suggested having certain areas of the track purposely dampened using sprinklers to make races more interesting in the era of processional races.

I think it is clear and admitted to by Mercedes that Ferrari have the fastest car this year.  

Ferrari's policy of favouring Vettel is also an advantage - although Vettel has proven himself to be quite the better competitor and faster than Raikkonen.  There has been some discussion that Raikkonen was perhaps partially responsible for Vettel's predicament last race - Vettel, on a different strategy, being stuck behind Raikkonen and having to demonstrate he was the faster driver before he was allowed to pass - by which time his tyres had degraded, which didn't help him several laps latter during changeable slippery conditions.

That said Mercedes, under pressure, have also been making a few mistakes too.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

The talentless Lance Stroll broke the upgraded Williams front wing when he crashed in qualifying and as such he will revert to the old spec during the race. The old spec has the issues caused by the malfunction in the wind tunnel

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Bottas showed why he's a doormat literally nothing more than a second driver. Crashed into Vettel and Riccardo. The Mercedes number 2 is an embarrassment

[Guest]

Hamilton wins the Hungarian GP, and extends WDC lead to 24.

Yesterday cost Ferrari, outdriven in the wet, and a poor pit stop cost Vettel today

[CaledonianCraig]

Bottas showed why he's a doormat literally nothing more than a second driver. Crashed into Vettel and Riccardo. The Mercedes number 2 is an embarrassment

As is Kimi a doormat for Vettel. Your point?

Every season in F1 the teams challenging for the title have this situation and it has been that way for as long as I can remember.

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Bottas might pick up a few penalty points for that late display, pretty amateur.

One of those weekends for Ferrari. Faster car in the dry by a mile but rain set in when it mattered

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Bottas showed why he's a doormat literally nothing more than a second driver. Crashed into Vettel and Riccardo. The Mercedes number 2 is an embarrassment

As is Kimi a doormat for Vettel. Your point?

Every season in F1 the teams challenging for the title have this situation and it has been that way for as long as I can remember.

Kimi has had a career to savour even before he returned to F1 after he left in 2009. Raikkonen CV says world champion so whether he's a number 2 driver at the end of his career if probably irrelevant for Kimi.

Whereas Bottas is dull as dishwater and he knows he'll never win a championship. So he begging for crumbs from Mercedes

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Don't think Bottas can match a top driver like Hamilton but in another life with better luck he'd be right in this fight. And I never thought Rosberg could.

He's a bit of a nearly man.

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10 seconds (which is irrelevant) and 2 penalty points (which is mostly irrelevant) for hitting Ricciardo

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Rosberg was vastly better than Bottas. No contest really regardless of Rosberg having won a championship.

Even Wolff called Bottas a 'wingman' on live TV. The ultimate humiliation

[CaledonianCraig]

Bottas showed why he's a doormat literally nothing more than a second driver. Crashed into Vettel and Riccardo. The Mercedes number 2 is an embarrassment

As is Kimi a doormat for Vettel. Your point?

Every season in F1 the teams challenging for the title have this situation and it has been that way for as long as I can remember.

Kimi has had a career to savour even before he returned to F1 after he left in 2009. Raikkonen CV says world champion so whether he's a number 2 driver at the end of his career if probably irrelevant for Kimi.

Whereas Bottas is dull as dishwater and he knows he'll never win a championship. So he begging for crumbs from Mercedes

And Kimi will win Jack now. He is merely a support player for Vettel as is Bottas for Hamilton. For one as dull as dishwater it sure took Vettel, in the faster car and on fresher tyres a mighty long time to get past him.

[Guest]

Bottas & Kimi are the support cast, and will always be used as sacrificial lambs, at this stage of the season. Everyone knows what their role is, and have done so, for a long time.

In general terms, you sense Ferrari are lacking that ruthlessness, or killer instinct, when holding the upper hand. No real surprise, given their 10+ year constructors drought, and Vettel now being susceptible to too many errors, that just never happened during his RB era. Given their package, and having won at Silverstone, they really needed to seize their chance before the summer break, but with Mercedes leading both championships, they have failed to capitalise on Mercedes being behind the eight ball this season. Might come back to haunt them, especially as Hamilton has got over his woeful displays earlier in the season, and looks to be going from strength, to strength.

Ocon to Renault looks done
Stroll Snr has paid wages of 400 FI employees, so I’d imagine it’s Perez & Stroll at FI for 19’.

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Overtaking at this track is similar to Monaco, nigh impossible, especially with a DRS issue. Made the slow stop that let Bottas past key

[dyrewolfe]

Bottas showed why he's a doormat literally nothing more than a second driver. Crashed into Vettel and Riccardo. The Mercedes number 2 is an embarrassment

As is Kimi a doormat for Vettel. Your point?

Every season in F1 the teams challenging for the title have this situation and it has been that way for as long as I can remember.

Kimi has had a career to savour even before he returned to F1 after he left in 2009. Raikkonen CV says world champion so whether he's a number 2 driver at the end of his career if probably irrelevant for Kimi.

Whereas Bottas is dull as dishwater and he knows he'll never win a championship. So he begging for crumbs from Mercedes

And Kimi will win Jack now. He is merely a support player for Vettel as is Bottas for Hamilton. For one as dull as dishwater it sure took Vettel, in the faster car and on fresher tyres a mighty long time to get past him.

I actually have some sympathy for Bottas. He has proven race-winning ability, under pressure from Ferrari, albeit when Hamilton has been out of the picture, due to penalties or breakdowns. He is certainly a fine driver...unfortunately, he is just not as good as Hamilton, so is relegated to a support role for most races.

I think its sad that Wolff openly called him a wingman in an interview...but tbh its not exactly a revelation. I just hope Valtteri uses it as motivation, kind of like how Webber did when he won at Silverstone and made that, "not bad for a #2 driver", comment over the radio.

Not sure if the collisions were a result of his frustration at being the sacrificial pawn, or if he was simply trying to do his job too well. Either way I think it panned out pretty fairly and no-one was overly hard done by.

[dyrewolfe]

Bottas & Kimi are the support cast, and will always be used as sacrificial lambs, at this stage of the season. Everyone knows what their role is, and have done so, for a long time.

In general terms, you sense Ferrari are lacking that ruthlessness, or killer instinct, when holding the upper hand. No real surprise, given their 10+ year constructors drought, and Vettel now being susceptible to too many errors, that just never happened during his RB era. Given their package, and having won at Silverstone, they really needed to seize their chance before the summer break, but with Mercedes leading both championships, they have failed to capitalise on Mercedes being behind the eight ball this season. Might come back to haunt them, especially as Hamilton has got over his woeful displays earlier in the season, and looks to be going from strength, to strength.

Ocon to Renault looks done
Stroll Snr has paid wages of 400 FI employees, so I’d imagine it’s Perez & Stroll at FI for 19’.

The Force India deal is apparently far from done and dusted. Seems a number of teams have concerns about another power bloc forming, similar to the Ferrari-Haas-Sauber link-up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/45026461

Renault, McLaren and Williams have all expressed concerns about Mercedes' involvement in the sale and will not agree to conditions that will facilitate a deal, unless their concerns are addressed.

[CaledonianCraig]

Bottas & Kimi are the support cast, and will always be used as sacrificial lambs, at this stage of the season. Everyone knows what their role is, and have done so, for a long time.

In general terms, you sense Ferrari are lacking that ruthlessness, or killer instinct, when holding the upper hand. No real surprise, given their 10+ year constructors drought, and Vettel now being susceptible to too many errors, that just never happened during his RB era. Given their package, and having won at Silverstone, they really needed to seize their chance before the summer break, but with Mercedes leading both championships, they have failed to capitalise on Mercedes being behind the eight ball this season. Might come back to haunt them, especially as Hamilton has got over his woeful displays earlier in the season, and looks to be going from strength, to strength.

Ocon to Renault looks done
Stroll Snr has paid wages of 400 FI employees, so I’d imagine it’s Perez & Stroll at FI for 19’.

The Force India deal is apparently far from done and dusted. Seems a number of teams have concerns about another power bloc forming, similar to the Ferrari-Haas-Sauber link-up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/45026461

Renault, McLaren and Williams have all expressed concerns about Mercedes' involvement in the sale and will not agree to conditions that will facilitate a deal, unless their concerns are addressed.

I can fully understand where McLaren, Williams and Renault are coming from but to a lesser degree Renault as they benefit from Red Bull data etc so are like a mini Ferrari and Mercedes.

McLaren and Williams are two teams with a great history as private teams - the most successful such teams in the sport's history. With Ferrari and Mercedes now having too much influence and being able to benefit a lot from close partnerships with other teams plus the financial boosts and technical boosts via data that they get then there is just no way your privateers can compete fairly. Sadly, the situation we have is a bi-product of the last decade or two where finances have throttled F1 and scared off many manufacturers from being involved as they once used to be. The big automobile companies that remain now hold a bigger monopoly of the sport in my opinion. I hanker for the old days of more privateer teams but sadly I realize those days are long since gone and I see no way of it returning.

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Don't think the Renault RB relationship has ever really worked that way while they have ran a team.

[CaledonianCraig]

Don't think the Renault RB relationship has ever really worked that way while they have ran a team.

Maybe. But surely they garner some form of engine info/data that they use to fine tune their engines etc. It is to a far lesser degree than Ferrari and Mercedes no doubt but they are still a F1 team that also supplies engines to other teams so they do benefit even if it is only from the financial payments they receive the likes of which that McLaren and Williams do not get.

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Yeah but thats not really what any of the 3 are concerned about. Haas basically used a year old Ferrari chassis their debut season so Ferrari could use their wind tunnel time. Mercedes can use their influence to get Ocon to move over for Hamilton etc. Ferrari can pretty much be assured of backing from their customer teams when a vote comes up they want to influence, the concern is Strolls dad buying FI would allow Merc to assert the same influence at a time when Ferrari and Merc are teaming up to direct the future of F1 down a path they want.

Red Bull and Renault act as separate entitites beyond Renault supplying engines.

The concern is through satellite teams, Mercedes and Ferrari would essentially own half the grid. And we all know the joke about what FIA actually stands for.

[CaledonianCraig]

Yeah but thats not really what any of the 3 are concerned about. Haas basically used a year old Ferrari chassis their debut season so Ferrari could use their wind tunnel time. Mercedes can use their influence to get Ocon to move over for Hamilton etc. Ferrari can pretty much be assured of backing from their customer teams when a vote comes up they want to influence, the concern is Strolls dad buying FI would allow Merc to assert the same influence at a time when Ferrari and Merc are teaming up to direct the future of F1 down a path they want.

Red Bull and Renault act as separate entitites beyond Renault supplying engines.

The concern is through satellite teams, Mercedes and Ferrari would essentially own half the grid. And we all know the joke about what FIA actually stands for.

For me this situation has been brewing for years now. It is by no means a new thing. Look at the make-up of the teams and whereas the privateer teams has shrunk the teams either heavily backed by big automobile companies or are their teams have grown.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Triple world champion Niki Lauda has undergone a lung transplant. Wishing him a speedy recovery

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Ricciardo leaving RB according to Sky.

[Marky]

Read online he's off to Renault as well.

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Could be an inspired move. More likely to be at the head of the midfield though

[Marky]

According to BBC Sport, Horner has confirmed he's offski.

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Renault confirm it.

Has a bit of Hamilton's Merc move in terms of gambling on a team that might be on the cusp of being a frontrunner.

Doesn't say much for McLaren or a Honda powered RB

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Well Riccardo's decision is unlikely to win him any championships but I believe the Renault engine is considerably better than whatever Honda will produce. Renault realistically will become the third best team. Red Bull will fade away. And obviously Riccardo getting more cash at Renault

[CaledonianCraig]

It is a surprise but think he is petrified of the prospect of Red Bull moving to Honda engines. Honda were panned universally by McLaren and I have to think that has influenced his decision. The right move? I have my doubts.

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Think it's a mixture of RB unlikely to be title contenders and putting all their eggs into Verstappen.

Winning a title at RB highly unlikely so why not take a gamble on a rising team where you can be loved.

[Guest]

I like the decision. Probably won’t reap the same reward Hamilton to Mercedes produced, but he’s essentially #1 driver at a works team now. Always sensed RB were undervaluing his importance, and that probably reflected in the contract they offered him. Gasly has been quietly impressing, so a more than capable replacement is ready and waiting.

Not sure where this leaves Ocon & Sainz for 2019.

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Sainz to McLaren still.

Ocon to Williams would make some sense, might yet be in contention for TR given the pipeline is dry.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Mansour Ojjeh has left Mclaren. The whole team is totally falling apart

[Guest]

Force India out of administration, thanks to a consortium led by Lawrence Stroll.

Fear for Williams. Lost Stroll’s finance, and Martini are bailing at the end of the year.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Oh to have a billionaire father whom can waste vast sums of money to enable his hapless son an undeserved seat in F1. Lance Stroll will be around like a bad smell for years to come.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Force India out of administration, thanks to a consortium led by Lawrence Stroll.

Fear for Williams. Lost Stroll’s finance, and Martini are bailing at the end of the year.

Williams became stale when Claire Williams inherited control. She's clueless and has no input on the team.

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Williams just don't have the resources to compete. Couldn't keep up with development while their engine advantage narrowed.

By all accounts they rolled the dice on a brand new chassis concept and it's blown up big time.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Reports in the Italian press suggest 2007 world champion Kimi Raikkonen has 'earned' a new two year deal, basically mirroring Vettel's existing deal. This isn't a 1+1 performance related contract. It's a guaranteed two year deal. This decision comes following the passing of marchionne and as such LeClerc will end up at haas

[CaledonianCraig]

Reports in the Italian press suggest 2007 world champion Kimi Raikkonen has 'earned' a new two year deal, basically mirroring Vettel's existing deal. This isn't a 1+1 performance related contract. It's a guaranteed two year deal. This decision comes following the passing of marchionne and as such LeClerc will end up at haas

Fantastic deal for a rear gunner. Well done Kimi.

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Fernandos offski at seasons end

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

McLaren set to announce Carlos Sainz Jr as replacement for fellow Spaniard Fernando Alonso. Sainz Jr will be on a two year deal.

Whilst Sainz Jr wanted to go back to Red Bull, if Mclaren can sort their chassis out, Renault's engine is still miles ahead of Honda.

[dyrewolfe]

McLaren set to announce Carlos Sainz Jr as replacement for fellow Spaniard Fernando Alonso. Sainz Jr will be on a two year deal.

Whilst Sainz Jr wanted to go back to Red Bull, if Mclaren can sort their chassis out, Renault's engine is still miles ahead of Honda.

Performance-wise, but weirdly the Honda seems to have better reliability at the moment.

Poor Carlos! He must be cursing his luck...then again I suppose any seat is better than none. If McLaren can't drastically improve their chassis, I don't see them getting any points finishes.

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Only when the Renault engine is in the RB

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Sainz and Verstappen didn't get on at TR so a reunion was always unlikely at RB

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

McLaren have confirmed Carlos Sainz jr on a multiple year contract.

Red Bull are looking at Dan Ticktum to join Toro Rosso in 2019, but he doesn't have enough points for a super license

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Toyota #8(Alonso's car) and #7 claimed a dominant 1-2 in the 6hrs of Silverstone in WEC, only to both be disqualified due to over worn skid blocks on both cars. Alonso's Poopie luck follows him everywhere

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Gasly to RB confirmed, such that there were other options

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Red Bull keeping it in house as expected. Gasly is a likeable young chap but Verstappen will eat him alive

[Guest]

Verstappen should eat him alive, but RB will be rather anonymous next year in the mid-pack. Should just be a repeat of the one-sided Alonso & Vandoorne partnership.

On the other hand though, the dire reality of the Honda situation might hit home for Verstappen though. If they are seriously uncompetitive, I could envisage the dummy being spat out. Could give Gasly an opportunity, if Max loses focus.

[Fernando]

Norris replacing Alonso for FP1 

End of Stoffel appears to be looming.

[dyrewolfe]

Verstappen should eat him alive, but RB will be rather anonymous next year in the mid-pack. Should just be a repeat of the one-sided Alonso & Vandoorne partnership.

On the other hand though, the dire reality of the Honda situation might hit home for Verstappen though. If they are seriously uncompetitive, I could envisage the dummy being spat out. Could give Gasly an opportunity, if Max loses focus.

Actually Gasly has shown the Honda is a decent unit, when it holds together. Got some good results for TR this season. If Honda can continue to improve power & reliability, coupled with Newey's uncanny knack of creating great chassis, I don't see RB suffering too much.

At least I don't see anyone challenging RB for third best team on the grid.

Norris replacing Alonso for FP1

End of Stoffel appears to be looming.

Well its a risk worth taking I guess. Vandoorne hasn't shown any special talent, while Alonso proved this season's car can be dragged into the points now and again. Looking forward to seeing what Lando Chuck Calrissian Norris can do. He may not be any better, but in McLaren's current situation it doesn't really matter.

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