F1 Racing Point Belgium GP Thread

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First topic message reminder :

Imagine it'll all be temp like most street circuits

[CaledonianCraig]

Craig the only way you'll get your vision of pure racing is by the removal of all independent teams and factory teams only permitted to one team. Essentially you'd need 10 manufacturers as to stop this factory team/b team/c team power grab

Yes or more motor companies should be enticed into F1. Names such as Porsche, Ford, Toyota and BMW to name but a few. Even if it is merely supplying engines it would throw a greater variety in there and perhaps break some cliques.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Craig the only way you'll get your vision of pure racing is by the removal of all independent teams and factory teams only permitted to one team. Essentially you'd need 10 manufacturers as to stop this factory team/b team/c team power grab

Yes or more motor companies should be enticed into F1. Names such as Porsche, Ford, Toyota and BMW to name but a few. Even if it is merely supplying engines it would throw a greater variety in there and perhaps break some cliques.

Would love to see Mercedes vs BMW vs Porsche rivalry and the renewal and Honda vs Toyota would be great. Hopefully Liberty can do something otherwise F1 with will become like WEC two tier championship

[CaledonianCraig]

Craig the only way you'll get your vision of pure racing is by the removal of all independent teams and factory teams only permitted to one team. Essentially you'd need 10 manufacturers as to stop this factory team/b team/c team power grab

Yes or more motor companies should be enticed into F1. Names such as Porsche, Ford, Toyota and BMW to name but a few. Even if it is merely supplying engines it would throw a greater variety in there and perhaps break some cliques.

Would love to see Mercedes vs BMW vs Porsche rivalry and the renewal and Honda vs Toyota would be great. Hopefully Liberty can do something otherwise F1 with will become like WEC two tier championship

Totally agree Nathaniel. There is a heck of a lot of untapped potential engine provider-wise that could greatly spice things up. Look back to the mid-1980s and in 1985 you had Porsche, Ferrari, Ford Cosworth, Renault, BMW, Alfa Romeo, Honda, Hart and a couple of smaller engine providers involved and 17 teams. Now it is just Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and Honda and just 10 teams.

[dyrewolfe]

Craig the only way you'll get your vision of pure racing is by the removal of all independent teams and factory teams only permitted to one team. Essentially you'd need 10 manufacturers as to stop this factory team/b team/c team power grab

Yes or more motor companies should be enticed into F1. Names such as Porsche, Ford, Toyota and BMW to name but a few. Even if it is merely supplying engines it would throw a greater variety in there and perhaps break some cliques.

Agree - F1 desperately needs to make itself more attractive to more manufacturers. Unfortunately the biggest obstacle to this is the exorbitant cost of developing hybrid power units.

I know F1 is supposed to represent the pinnacle of automotive technology, but they have really shot themselves in the foot with this one. I mean, they banned all driver aids and active suspension, mass dampers etc. back in the 1990s - 2000s, so I think hybrid PUs have to go...no matter how much money has been invested in them.

At some point F1 has to realise it is a spectator sport as much as a technological competition (and corporate "love in") and what people want to see is close on-track racing. Preferably between teams that don't have the kind of "close co-operation" we see now.

This is actively harming F1 by effectively giving a small handful of companies a controlling interest in every team, giving them the power to steer the sport the way they want...which is turning the sport into a snore fest. Its strangling genuine competition and turning it into an isolated bubble where few other people have the interest, or resources to enter.

To counter this, they first need to lower costs just to enter a team (admin, licences etc.) then they need to make the cost of designing & developing cars a lot lower. Finally they need to balance out the rewards and stop giving the top teams massive bonuses, just for turning up.

Sad to say but modern F1 is rotten to the core and needs a total and utter overhaul in every aspect. I just hope Liberty don't lose sight of what they hoped to achieve when they took over.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

F1 is certainly handicapped by Mercedes and Ferrari essentially tactically voting so they can keep the majority of the money which is killing the sport

[dyrewolfe]

F1 is certainly handicapped by Mercedes and Ferrari essentially tactically voting so they can keep the majority of the money which is killing the sport

Which is why I wish the FIA had the stones to push through major regulation changes...even if it meant Merc & Ferrari walking away. May as well die quickly than the slow stagnation we are currently witnessing. Either that, or certain decisions have to be taken out of teams' hands, to prevent them controlling the sport's direction.

For what its worth, I believe if they COULD drastically cut the cost of competing, the likes of Aston Martin, BMW, Volkswagen, Alfa etc. could be tempted to enter teams.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Looks like Ocon will miss out in 2019 and unless Hamilton was to retire prior to 2020 or Bottas is axed I don't see how the Frenchman gets a seat in 2020

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British GP to be live on C4 all other races exclusive to sky because someone thinks locking f1 behind a paywall is a good thing

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Ferrari still holds the option of nominating the driver for Sauber's second seat. The Raikkonen deal was independent, if that's really true. Ferrari simulator driver Antonio Giovinazzi is naturally the guy Ferrari would select. But they are reluctant to lose giovinazzi as well as kvyat. If Ferrari pass over the seat, Vandoorne could well oust Ericsson

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Toto Wolff getting his knickers in a twist over no one wanting to sign Esteban Ocon. Wolff aims dig at Renault for renegating their offer for Ocon when they realized Ricciardo was attainable. I'm not the biggest fan of Ricciardo, but the choice of a 7 time grand prix winner or a guy who's struggling to beat his current teammate...It was a no brainer for Renault. Ocon is somewhat overrated by the perception that he legitimately beat LeClerc in 2014 in F3, but the reality if LeClerc lost that championship when that pratt Lance Stroll crashed into him. Despite Wolff's huffing and puffing neither Toro Rosso or Haas are not a charity so why should they help out mercedes

[Guest]

Raikkonen fastest in FP2. Vettel has another mistake, and hits the wall. RB are quick, but you can tell the majority of focus & development is on 2019 now.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Vettel's brush with the wall was neither here nor there tbh. Ferrari don't show their hand on Fridays and they are still fastest

[CaledonianCraig]

Well Vettel has already admitted his list of errors is costing the team and another one today.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Vettel just clocked a 1.38 dead. Fastest lap ever in Singapore

[Guest]

Hamilton - 1.36.015

Incredible lap

Vettel in third

[CaledonianCraig]

Hamilton - 1.36.015

Incredible lap

Vettel in third

And Hamilton is on pole on their bogey track. Mind blowing lap that.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Hopefully Verstappen takes out Hamilton tomorrow

[Guest]

Mate, just appreciate that as a lap. Love him or hate him, it’s still an incredible lap.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

There is no hate, I find it ridiculous that Hamilton could be considered superior to the peerless Jim Clark(my hero) had Clark raced in the modern era he would've has every record in F1

[No name Bertie]

Seems like both Hamilton and Verstappen pulled out epic laps to finish one and two. Let's hope Verstappen behaves at the start of the race tomorrow (as well as Vettel who is third).

[No name Bertie]

It seems that tyres are going to play an important part of tomorrows race. Not sure how long they last and how many pit stops will be needed.

[CaledonianCraig]

There is no hate, I find it ridiculous that Hamilton could be considered superior to the peerless Jim Clark(my hero) had Clark raced in the modern era he would've has every record in F1

Well considering the sad way Jim Clark died on the racetrack don't you think it is in bad taste encouraging a crash?

[CaledonianCraig]

It was interesting yesterday listening to Gunther Steiner. Basically, he was saying precisely what we were discussing on here the other day. More manufacturers are needed to be brought into F1. He cited engine makers such as Ilmor and Ford-Cosworth and was also not keen on the duopoly that currently exists in F1.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Perez takes out Ocon. Clownage

[Marky]

Vettel's race is done. Ferrari stuffing him by putting him on the Ultrasofts instead of the Softs like everyone else. So not only is he on a tyre that doesn't work as well, he's on a tyre that won't last nearly as long either

[Born Slippy]

Yeah looks like Vettel is preserving the US to try and avoid another pit stop, which is preventing him from really chasing down Max. Very odd strategy from Ferrari.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Perez having an absolute shocker. Driving into Sirotkin. 10 sec drive through pen.

[Guest]

Ferrari exposed on the pit wall, and Vettel not doing the job on Saturday. Sums them up this season

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Season over. Might be time for Ferrari and Vettel to part ways. Ferrari should consider buying out Verstappen from Red Bull.

[Guest]

Fantastic win for LH. Driving on another level right now. 40 point lead in the WDC.

[CaledonianCraig]

It will be very interesting next season to see how Leclerc does at Ferrari.

Hamilton dominant on a track Ferrari were odds on favourite to win at before the meet. Great drive by Alonso who was comfortably 7th.

[Born Slippy]

Very dull race at the front - tyre conservation seemed too important and no real chance to overtake. That mesmeric qualifying lap yesterday did the job for Lewis.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Ferrari had no option but to put Vettel on the ultra soft, he burns through the soft tyre to easily as he did a few times this season. Ultra wasn't the right tyre for this race though

[dyrewolfe]

Ugh - I'm glad thats over. I actually dozed off for the first 30 minutes or so.

Only thing really worth mentioning was Perez's diabolical driving. Deliberately shunted his team mate into the wall on the opening lap (and you won't convince me otherwise) and got his just desserts when he tried a similar move, ramming Sirotkin later in the race.

Don't believe his BS about "not seeing him" for one second. If his situational awareness is really that bad he has no business being a F1 driver (or racing driver full stop). He had plenty of room too, as there was no-one on his inside at the time. Absolutely no need to do what he did and no excuse. If I was FI boss I would keep Ocon and dump Perez in a heartbeat.

Other than that, an utterly dull and forgettable procession, although a bit of actual racing did  interrupt the boredom in the minor points places.

Nice brief duel between Vettel and Verstappen early on and some smart pit work by RB to get him out ahead of the Ferrari.

And that was pretty much it (from what I remember...its already getting a bit hazy...)

Routine win for Lewis and the championship now looks a foregone conclusion, barring some really bad reliability issues for Merc.

[Guest]

Season over. Might be time for Ferrari and Vettel to part ways. Ferrari should consider buying out Verstappen from Red Bull.

Arriverbene will be out the door at season end. The LeClerc decision is Ferrari setting the wheels in motion for change, but it’s premature for Vettel’s exit, despite his poor performance. Having said that, the pressure and scrutiny on Vettel is ramping up every weekend. He’s being bent over by Hamilton right now, and doesn’t seem to have any answers. Just looks like his individual strive to win a title outside of RB, is weighing on him too much. I never had him on the same level as Alonso or Hamilton, and this season has reinforced that belief.

As for the season being over, again, very premature. 40 points is a significant gap, but not insurmountable.  

As for buying out Verstappen, I heard he has a performance release clause, in reference to Honda’s own performance targets, so it could be an outside option. I would still back that Mick Schumacher in 2020 is a more likely replacement, especially if he wins the F3 championship this year, and then step up to F2 next season.

[Uryu Ishida]

Ugh - I'm glad thats over. I actually dozed off for the first 30 minutes or so. As did I

Only thing really worth mentioning was Perez's diabolical driving. Deliberately shunted his team mate into the wall on the opening lap (and you won't convince me otherwise) and got his just desserts when he tried a similar move, ramming Sirotkin later in the race. Sirotkin was doing some supreme defending imo until the tyres hit the cliff n went 5+ laps too long and nearly crashed Hartley out

Don't believe his BS about "not seeing him" for one second. If his situational awareness is really that bad he has no business being a F1 driver (or racing driver full stop). He had plenty of room too, as there was no-one on his inside at the time. Absolutely no need to do what he did and no excuse. If I was FI boss I would keep Ocon and dump Perez in a heartbeat. AGREED, Perez should have been black flagged.

Other than that, an utterly dull and forgettable procession, although a bit of actual racing did  interrupt the boredom in the minor points places.

Nice brief duel between Vettel and Verstappen early on and some smart pit work by RB to get him out ahead of the Ferrari. And the backmarkers that they saw

And that was pretty much it (from what I remember...its already getting a bit hazy...)

Routine win for Lewis and the championship now looks a foregone conclusion, barring some really bad reliability issues for Merc.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Season over. Might be time for Ferrari and Vettel to part ways. Ferrari should consider buying out Verstappen from Red Bull.

Arriverbene will be out the door at season end. The LeClerc decision is Ferrari setting the wheels in motion for change, but it’s premature for Vettel’s exit, despite his poor performance. Having said that, the pressure and scrutiny on Vettel is ramping up every weekend. He’s being bent over by Hamilton right now, and doesn’t seem to have any answers. Just looks like his individual strive to win a title outside of RB, is weighing on him too much. I never had him on the same level as Alonso or Hamilton, and this season has reinforced that belief.

As for the season being over, again, very premature. 40 points is a significant gap, but not insurmountable.  

As for buying out Verstappen, I heard he has a performance release clause, in reference to Honda’s own performance targets, so it could be an outside option. I would still back that Mick Schumacher in 2020 is a more likely replacement, especially if he wins the F3 championship this year, and then step up to F2 next season.

Well the rebuild is well and truly on as someone leaked LeClerc's Scuderia contract to the Italian media. LeClerc has signed a four year deal, none of this 2+2 nonsense but straight up four years. Vettel has continually rejected signing a deal past 2020.

As for Arriverbene, the relationship between Vettel and the Italian has obviously broken down. Arriverbene seems a typical Italian heart over head with decision making eg Monza Vettel should've been given preference and the just bizarre strategy calls in Singapore. Going further back in Germany whilst both cars on differing strategies, Arriverbene allowed Kimi to hold up Vettel and allowed Hamilton to cause Vettel to crash out trying to reinforce his lead.

Difference between Ferrari and Mercedes is that Ferrari have been starved of championships since 2008 and as such they make irrational strategy calls. Vettel won those 4+ 4 championships with Red Bull, but that doesn't rub off on the guys at Ferrari. When Mercedes are struggling they use Niki Lauda to drop a few grenades to take the pressure of Wolff and Hamilton. Ferrari doesn't have anyone like that

Can Vettel save Ferrari in 2018? It's not beyond them mathematically just yet, IF Vettel has 6 perfect weekends he could still snatch the championship. But for that to happen Vettel and Arriverbene have to be as one, recent races suggest that's beyond them now

[No name Bertie]

Well done to Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes for the win - much of which followed from yesterday's qualifying.  

I want to give a thumbs up to both Verstappen and Vettel for driving with maturity and fairness.   Maybe Verstappen and Red Bull might have been the best performers given the conditions - Verstappen was having to control a car with an engine that kept on wanting to go into neutral when the car was going moderately slowly.  

Not sure what happened to Vettel and Ferrari - but credit to Vettel for nursing his tyres to the end - when they were losing performance.  Not sure why Bottas wasn't closer to Vettel given his strategy and longer lasting tyres - but Bottas was saying there were issues with overtaking back markers.   Riccardo had the speed - he was right behind Raikkonen and Bottas, but just wasn't able to pass - as is the difficulty with a street circuit.  

Not sure exactly what happened to Ferrari on this circuit but so much depends on getting the tyres to work.  I assume they still have the fastest car.

If Red Bull can get a good engine comparable to a Mercedes or Ferrari engine - then they will probably be winning another championship in the near future with Verstappen.   Not sure how well Honda are doing in improving their engine (now with Torro Rosso) and how competitive it will be next year.

ps: Thumbs up to Alonso and McLaren (Renault powered) for finishing best of the rest in this race in 7th.

[Guest]

Can Vettel save Ferrari in 2018? It's not beyond them mathematically just yet, IF Vettel has 6 perfect weekends he could still snatch the championship

Vettel needs to win all six races, and if Hamilton finishes second in all of them, then Vettel wins the championship by 2 pts. That scenario won’t pan out, but that’s the state of play. Vettel needs a Hamilton DNF imo now.

As for Sochi, qualifying not overly important. Mercedes wouldn’t mind being on the second row, with that drag down to turn 1. Horner has indicated that Verstappen is likely to have a grid penalty for Sochi.

Daniil Kvyat expected to be confirmed at Toro Rosso for 2019, in Sochi.

[dyrewolfe]

Well done to Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes for the win - much of which followed from yesterday's qualifying.  

I want to give a thumbs up to both Verstappen and Vettel for driving with maturity and fairness.   Maybe Verstappen and Red Bull might have been the best performers given the conditions - Verstappen was having to control a car with an engine that kept on wanting to go into neutral when the car was going moderately slowly.  

Not sure what happened to Vettel and Ferrari - but credit to Vettel for nursing his tyres to the end - when they were losing performance.  Not sure why Bottas wasn't closer to Vettel given his strategy and longer lasting tyres - but Bottas was saying there were issues with overtaking back markers.   Riccardo had the speed - he was right behind Raikkonen and Bottas, but just wasn't able to pass - as is the difficulty with a street circuit.  

Not sure exactly what happened to Ferrari on this circuit but so much depends on getting the tyres to work.  I assume they still have the fastest car.

If Red Bull can get a good engine comparable to a Mercedes or Ferrari engine - then they will probably be winning another championship in the near future with Verstappen.   Not sure how well Honda are doing in improving their engine (now with Torro Rosso) and how competitive it will be next year.

ps: Thumbs up to Alonso and McLaren (Renault powered) for finishing best of the rest in this race in 7th.

Bottas is nearly always hamstrung by failing to qualify on the front row. The Mercedes is the quickest car when it can run in clean air. When it has to follow other cars, its severely compromised...significantly more so than the Ferraris or Red Bulls. If you can't pull off an overtake on the opening lap, you're gonna struggle to pass the other top cars.

We can but hope for closer competition next season, but honestly I don't think we're going to see any radical changes in performance, or pecking order. The teams and FIA are just tinkering round the edges in stead of getting to grips with the real problems.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Sauber have confirmed the signing of Ferrari junior Antonio Giovinazzi to partner the Kimster

[Guest]

I'd expect Ocon to seal that Williams seat for 2019. Vandoorne rumoured to be heading to Formula E, to drive for Mercedes-backed Formula E squad, HWA.

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Mercedes would have to pay a lot more for that seat than they're currently offering

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Really not seeing what all the fuss about Ocon is. Mercedes should be backing Russell, the boy is sensational

[Guest]

Haas confirm Grosjean & Magnussen for 2019. Pretty much nails Perez to FI. Kvyat to be confirmed back at TR.

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If you thought putting Hartley in the car showed RBs talent line had dried up, this confirms it

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Daniil Kvyat returns to Toro Rosso presumably as lead driver. Red Bull protege Daniel Ticktum won't be fast tracked after he received a public dressing down from Christian Horner following Ticktum's allegations that Prema and Mick Schumacher are cheating. Looks like it Hartley vs Wehrlein for the second seat

[Guest]

Mercedes dominant in Q. Season unravelling for Ferrari. Heads will roll this winter

[Marky]

Thoughts on Renault deliberately not taking part in Q2?

It's clever, they're guaranteed 11th and 12th due to grid penalties to others, free choice of tyres for the race instead of having to start on slightly worn ones, and only a couple of places back from where they'd be.

[Guest]

Bottas pole, Hamilton goes wide during that second run. Vettel third & Raikkonen 4th, but massively off the pace.

Bottas will be sitting duck down to T1.

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