The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the virtual rugby pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the Tommy Bowe photo on the bar. That's a banning offence

So pull up a chair....what'll it be?

15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. Darcy
11. Fitzgerald
10. Sexton
9. Reddan

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Cullen
5. POC
6. SOB
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip.

That team could realistically beat Australia. The bulk of it, has won 2 x
HC's in 3 years. I know it wont happen. It is fraught with political outfall.

But I can see 9 or 10 making it. Wallace for Jennings, DOC for Cullen and
maybe Trimble for Fitzgerald - will be Kidneys choice. Cronin (now Leinster) is on the bench too.

Oh how they laughed at me 2 years ago, when I posted practically the same article on 606. It has now come to pass.

Believe.

G'day all! I feel great vaandag. Slept like a bhugger last night and had a nice long bike-ride this morn. There is a triathlon going on in the park and its surrounds. Mad bastewards.

Ulster could have had a home SF very easily this year. They had the same win/draw/loss record as Leinster and lost out on 2nd place because bonus points.

Paddy Wallace started at out-half for Ulster four times, resulting in one draw and three losses. I'm not saying they'd have definitely won any of those games otherwise, but Ulster are a better team with Humphs at 10 and Wallace at 12, and could have finished 2nd this year without the IRFU dictating Ulster team selection.

Glas that is your opinion. Based on the league table we are the 3rd best.

That is not to say we are unquestionably the 3rd best side but it is a good indicator. Munster and Leinster are the only two sides I would say are definitely and considerably better.

Arguably Ospreys, Cardiff and the dragons are as good or better but based on last season you couldn't say that unquestionably they are.

I believe we are as good as these sides and should be aiming for a top 4/5 finish every season as a minimum.

The final standings this year say different Glas

I was looking forward to watching the final of queens this morning but the rain has put a stop to that, I'm going to get wet in wembley tonight.

You need a different full back (or at least give him time to find his form).

For what it's worth as an outsider I would say:

15 Earls
14 Bowe
13 BOD
12 McFadden
11 Fitzgerald
10 Sexton
9 Murray

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Ross
4 Cullen
5 POC
6 SOB (presuming Ferris isn't fit
8 Heaslip
7 Jennings

I think Ospreys will grow a lot next year. They won nearly all their ML games, in the period without their galacticos. When they came back - they nose-dived. Scarlets too, are on the up and were so unlucky to miss out. I see both of them as direct competiton for Ulster.

Blues are in disarray. Dont know what's going to happen them next season.

As to the rest of you, you assume the Welsh regions will continue to underperform. The history of the league shows they every couple of years one of them click and win the league. Maybe not next year, but you assume the Welsh regions have found their level at your peril. Ulster over achieved this year rather than under achieved.

Gibbo I'd have to agree with a lot of what your saying, I believe Jennings needs to be picked to get the best out of SOB, let Jennings be the nuisance that he is and give SOB free reign to do what he does.

I was thinking this morning as well, how do you strike a healthy balance at the world cup. Do you a) Give the first team time to play and be Sharp when the knock outs come around or b) rotate the team during the smaller games to insure all the players get a run and possibly put their hand up for selection??

Steady Eddie made his choice at the last wc, will Deccie learn from those mistakes??

no tennis today because of the rain. Not happy.
Will have to settle to watching Moto GP with my dad.

I think that if there wasn't a world cup this year, teams like teh O's and Scarlets would really, really challenge for the top spots in the Magners next season. As it stands though I reckon the Scarlets at least will have wobbly starts to the season. Still think us, O's Dragons/Blues will be pushing for a top 4 spot along with Leinster, Munster and Ulster. That's 7 teams going for 4 places, it's going to be so, so close and competitive. I also fully expect either Glasgow/Edinburgh to be much more competitive. Ulster showed this season just been how crucial close wins are. Scarlets showed how crucial close defeats were. It's such fine margins that are going to settle everything. It just means the Pro12 is getting better

Gibson wrote:I think Ospreys will grow a lot next year. They won nearly all their ML games, in the period without their galacticos. When they came back - they nose-dived. Scarlets too, are on the up and were so unlucky to miss out. I see both of them as direct competion for Ulster.

Blues are in disarray. Dont know what's going to happen them next season.

I think the O's will come back as well in the new season. They've had poor seasons before and come back, and this one just gone, they had too much sheet with certain players who've now gone so that'll help. The Scarlets and the Dragons will continue to develop nicely, the only concern is the Blues. They're a bit stuck at the moment it seems, and that's frustrating.

Not a bad team there, Glas. Cant see Murray starting over Reddan. Or even making it on the squad. Reddan is our No.1 and is in great form. Id have Boss long before Murray - who has never played for Ireland. He may though, get a chance in the Summer. I would not object. He is a great player. But is it too soon for him?

Kearney has 5 (4 x tests and 1 v Connacht) games to get match-fit. He is fit and ready, just needs game time. I see him coming on in the Summer Tests - with Earls starting the 1st couple.

Love to see McFadden start a few games in Summer. Darcy has done nothing wrong to lose his place though - but Id prefer Mcfadden alongside BOD. The centre-pairing needs an injection of speed. The speed of the Aussie backline scares me. I can see BOD and Dorce get skinned.

They might have a good season, but the Blues are no good to watch. My hunch - and bear in mind I'm a terrible tipster - is that they'll struggle.

I hope the Dragons kick on and continue playing the brand of rugby they're playing under Darren Edwards. The Ospreys should benefit from jettisoning some past-their-best / complacent international players; they'll probably continue to frustrate, though. I hope next season is the season they bring through Matthew Morgan. The Scarlets, too, I hope will continue in the same vein as the season just ended. If they can add some steel to their forwards they'll be a tough proposition for whoever they face.

rugbydreamer England Saxons v Tonga Venue: Kingsholm, Gloucester Date: Sunday, 12 June Kick-off: 1430 BST Coverage: Live on Sky Sports 3

Gibson wrote:

Love to see McFadden start a few games in Summer.

Me too

Cymro - ah cheers for that! Am back in the sticks in West Wales at the mo so no Sky tv here, will maybe get a link online.... diolch/thanks though

Can't wait for mid July and I get away from London for a few days, should be a great laugh

It's not a question of whether Murray is ready, he has international class written all over him and a fine mentor in Stringer. Boss, Reddan and TOL have had chances without nailing it. Murray has a spark the others don't. It is a question of whether Kidney is ready for him.

hughie1986 wrote:Gibbo I'd have to agree with a lot of what your saying, I believe Jennings needs to be picked to get the best out of SOB, let Jennings be the nuisance that he is and give SOB free reign to do what he does.

Totally agree H, but will Kidney do it? Dont think so - until its too late.

I was thinking this morning as well, how do you strike a healthy balance at the world cup. Do you a) Give the first team time to play and be Sharp when the knock outs come around or b) rotate the team during the smaller games to insure all the players get a run and possibly put their hand up for selection??

Steady Eddie made his choice at the last wc, will Deccie learn from those mistakes??

I hope he goes with option (b, Hughie.. The core squad need to be readied - not just the 1st XV. The teams with the most options and squad-depth, will win the WC.

I.E. NZ. SA, Oz.

I believe we will see Kidneys' RWC starting 22 vs England in the last Test.

Fra?

Glas a du wrote:

roddersm wrote:I agree to a point stag but right now I believe there are only two sides who are unquestionably better than us in the league.

On that basis winning the league in the next few seasons is not out of the question. I'd like to see us consistantly finish in the top 5 but if we make the play offs then with a bit off luck and a home SF then anything is possible.

Really? I'd have said 4 at least.

roddersm, you may be right with your claim, but there are 3 or 4 who are pretty closely grouped behind the top two, and games between any of the trailing bunch tend to go with home advantage and the result is often as close as a single score - to compete with the top two, I think you'll have to consistently beat this group, and not slip up against any of the lower order banana skins - now where is that emoticon when you need it?!

Glas a du wrote:It's not a question of whether Murray is ready, he has international class written all over him and a fine mentor in Stringer. Boss, Reddan and TOL have had chances without nailing it. Murray has a spark the others don't. It is a question of whether Kidney is ready for him.

No argument with your logic there, Glas, but... ;-) Reddan with Sexton, is central to how we play our game right now. He will stick with that. Maybe Murray will make the plane as backup. After the RWC - I would introduce Murray in the 6-N. I can see that happening. Mcfadden will take up his place too. For BOD OR Darcy. It will be time to slowly start phasing them out. Maybe move Fitz inside too and have Bowe and Earls on the wings.

Leinster would have to help in this transition positionally. It may take another season. You would have to shoot BOD to stop him playing for Ireland & Leinster. But, he's slowing up. So is Darcy.

Enough of Ireland. What do you think will be Wales 22 for the RWC - present injuries being resolved before then?

I won't be disappointed if I'm wrong. I'll still go to every game and what's more I'll still enjoy every game. The enjoyment I get out of watching live rugby does vary depending on whether we're 1st or 12th. But not enough that I won't enjoy it all the same.

But I don't think we'll get anywhere with the attitude we won't get anywhere is the problem. The thing with Ulster is... we are building towards something very special. I think we've seen this year that none of the Welsh Regions have anything we don't and there's no reason to fear them. Respect them as teams who could easily turn us over yes, fear no. What I'm saying is, there are a few teams who could turn us over or finish ahead of us but there are only two sides who are actually much better than us. Our sole objective must be to close the gap on those two sides.

As far as Europe grows, I don't really expect us to qualify because of the difficulty of our away ties. But we get to play three games at Ravenhill, hopefully with everyone writing us off because we love that and thrive on it, and that gives us a great chance of three good wins. I'm hoping we get into the Amlin on the back of that.

I expect us to improve next year, it will really be dependent on how much other sides improve. All of the Welsh regions were totally mediocre last year. You sort of expect that Dragons and Scarlets will continue to improve, the Blues will continue to regress and Ospreys could go either way.

The main reasons I expect Ulster to improve are;

1) Better squad. We've cut out some of the deadwood. BJ Botha, for all his service, was not up to it last season and didn't justify his wages. Niall O'Connor will be replaced by some younger, more promising players. The likes of McIlwaine and Smith are replaced by Jared Payne and the quickly emerging Craig Gilroy, Caldwell for Stevenson and so on.
2) More experienced youngsters. Luke Marshall, Craig Gilroy, Paddy McAllister, Paddy Jackson, Nevin Spence etc. have all benefited from last years campaign and learnt a lot. They'll come back as better players.
3) Good signings in problem positions; two of our major problem positions have been addressed. Tighthead and fullback.
4) The World Cup. I expect us to be one of the strongest sides in the ML during the Rugby World Cup and to pick up some good wins.
5) Big performances to build on. We've seen against Cardiff and Bath just what this team is capable of. In a season where the team fell short of their potential in a number of games, we also saw the level we can reach and we should be able to come closer to that next year.

Reasons why Ulster might not do so well;

1) Lack of depth. We are susceptible to injuries in key positions. At halfback, missing Humphreys or Pienaar can leave us exposed. If Ferris doesn't return we lack depth in the backrow. The 6-10 axis is where we can be exposed with injuries.
2) Backrow not improved. We have some pretty average players in the backrow compared to Leinster and Munster. Henry, Faloon, Diack and McComish are all just honest journeymen. We need Ferris but with his injury record we probably won't have him.
3) Small squad. Our squad is quite small. We will struggle to maintain our form across the whole season of we pick up injuries.

Oh 100% agree Gibbo, that English game will be first team for the wc, but we have four games before this including the connacht game to really experiment and make sure we have it right. Id go as far as to say that results don't even matter that much, id be happier if we put out experimental teams for three of these games and could still compete to a certain level

Glas a du wrote:Fra?

No. I think they will fail miserably. They dont have the dynamic, attack-minded, team of old. Leivermont has totally negated that. That was what made France special in days of yore. That's what made them capable of taking on NZ and beating them. That has all but gone now, imo.

Still, with the players they have, they could see a SF. It all depends against whom - for them to make a Final.

Good morning all. Bit damp today!

Some interesting comments about players coming through and their potential (and don't be counting your chicks etc).

Tomas O'Leary was the Ireland SH that beat Australia in the U21s to make the Final of the Rugby World Cup in 2004. He is not rated anymore.

Conor Murray, Munster's SH was dropped from the Ireland U20s 6ns in 2009 in favour of a player called Mathew Healy.

Two years later Murray is getting picked ahead of two international SHs.
Does anyone know where Healy is?

Glas a du wrote:What makes you all think the Welsh regions won't sort themselves out, invention being the mother of necessity when the Welsh players are away?

I think the Welsh regions are well on the way to sorting themselves out. The Ospreys are having a right clear out (both bodies & minds). Losing the the galactica tag and more local players should help bigtime in turning them into a competitive team. I'd expect them to be a much better team next season. Likewise the Scarlets, they have definately turned the corner and are on an upward curve again.

hughie1986 wrote:Oh 100% agree Gibbo, that English game will be first team for the wc, but we have four games before this including the connacht game to really experiment and make sure we have it right. Id go as far as to say that results don't even matter that much, id be happier if we put out experimental teams for three of these games and could still compete to a certain level

Hughie,
I do believe you have hit the nail on the head there. Does Kidney play safe and hope to scrape through these Tests? ? Or does he experiment in games that mean nowt? Use them them to get ready for the WC? Use them ito improve. Winning every game is nice, but improving the squad depth and trying out a few different options pre RWC, is more prudent, imo.

I believe he should have done it in the last AI' s and 6-N. He didnt. Will he change now? I doubt it. Its late in the day now.

Also. I think we need to beat France - definitely at home and take them close/beat them away - at least to get over that particular hoodoo.
That would be a massive boost before we travel. So I think he will stick with his core 22 for them. I'd experiment vs Scotland, England and Connacht. And just beat the bloody French with all we've got.

Easy now.

Gibson wrote:
I believe he should have done it in the last AI' s and 6-N. He didnt. Will he change now? I doubt it. Its late in the day now.

I don't know how he could have blooded anyone else with the injury list he had. Don't forget that there were a fair few player already there with only a few caps to their name.

Morning/Afternoon all!! Suffering today, didn't get in till 7 in the pouring rain!! Lucky my old man didn't stay down!! Mark Ring had some interesting views on Welsh rugby too!!

When I say "experiment. Id play Court as much as possible. Cronin & Jennings too. Give McFadden and Murray game time also.

Its not radical. They are mostly all in the squad already. But if he doesnt and we have injuries or loss of form - it may come back to haunt us. A la Eddie.

As the Rev's "team" would say. He Who Dares Wins.

Save Our Sausages...

Notch I await being proven wrong and will begrudge nobody success. However the Ospreys are in that top three. The "4 at least" was tounge in cheek. The Blues Ulster Scarlets and Edinburgh should be the next tier, but Treviso and the Dragons may end up there.

Gibbo, second guessing Gatland is not what I call fun but here goes:

15-9 Byrne, North, Roberts, Henson, Williams, Jones, Phillips
1-8 Jenkins, Rees (c) Jones, AWJ, Davies, Lydiate, Jones, Warburton.
16-18 James, Bennett, Mitchell, Powell, Knoyle, Priestland, Hook.

For me with no consideration of what Gatland is likely to do:
15-9 Stoddart, Brew, Hook, Davies, Williams, Biggar, Peel
1-8 James, Hibbard, Jones, AWJ, Charteris, Turnbull, Faletau, Warburton
16-22 Jenkins, Rees, Gough, Jones, Evans, Tovey, North.

There's something to be said for momentum. We want to be coming into the World Cup on the back of several good wins.

I want to see some things tried out, but check out 2007 for how NOT to do that.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/aug/12/rugbyunion.sport

IRELAND Murphy; Carney, O'Driscoll (capt), Duffy, Bowe; Wallace, Boss; Young, Flannery, S Best, O'Kelly, O'Connell, N Best, Ferris, Heaslip Replacements Best, Hayes, Quinlan, Gleeson, Reddan, O'Gara, Trimble

And that team looks like it has some good players in it now; Ferris, Bowe, Heaslip. But despite being impressive for their provinces none were ready for the international game at that stage...

Sin é wrote:Good morning all. Bit damp today!

Some interesting comments about players coming through and their potential (and don't be counting your chicks etc).

Tomas O'Leary was the Ireland SH that beat Australia in the U21s to make the Final of the Rugby World Cup in 2004. He is not rated anymore.

Conor Murray, Munster's SH was dropped from the Ireland U20s 6ns in 2009 in favour of a player called Mathew Healy.

Two years later Murray is getting picked ahead of two international SHs.
Does anyone know where Healy is?

Again, I agree with your experience and caution Sin. We do get a bit carried away with one-season "Wonders" players at times. But I think Murray has it all tbh. TOL never did. Reddan either. There is only one way to find out. Try him.

prop_lyd wrote:Morning/Afternoon all!! Suffering today, didn't get in till 7 in the pouring rain!! Lucky my old man didn't stay down!! Mark Ring had some interesting views on Welsh rugby too!!

Story Prop? Ya durty stop-out ya!
Good time had my man?

Am I going to have to change colour again?

Mark Ring was the last of the characters.

Glas a du wrote:Mark Ring was the last of the characters.

Wasn't he another one who pished his career away?

Glas a du wrote:Mark Ring was the last of the characters.

He certainly was a character is he still with Cross Keys ?

Haha nah no story sorry Gibbo!!!! Just me and one other of the boy decided to hit a few more clubs than was healthy!!

Cymro: yeah he is still with Cross Keys

It's going to be very hard to strike the right balance in this wc with our big game coming so early in the pool stages. It means the first fifteen start against USA then its them again against Oz.

The fact that it is so early means that the warm UPS need as much rotation as possible for everyone to be match fit, if someone picks up an injury we can't be relying on players who could be coming in cold

Cari wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Mark Ring was the last of the characters.

Wasn't he another one who pished his career away?

He had a serious injury

Cari wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Mark Ring was the last of the characters.

Wasn't he another one who pished his career away?

Yes, but he did it in style. Seriously though he is one of the most naturally gifted and skillfull rugby players to have graced the game. Back heeled drop goals from the 22 anyone?

Ah got him confused with someone else.

Absolutely. That's why we've picked 4 games. We'll give everyone time. I just hope they don't treat it like the Samoa game in the autumn and drop 10 players all at once. It's about clever rotation.

Whoever is watching the Churchill cup please tell me you saw that rightguard advert?? It was bizarre

Glas a du wrote:Notch I await being proven wrong and will begrudge nobody success. However the Ospreys are in that top three. The "4 at least" was tounge in cheek. The Blues Ulster Scarlets and Edinburgh should be the next tier, but Treviso and the Dragons may end up there.

Gibbo, second guessing Gatland is not what I call fun but here goes:

15-9 Byrne, North, Roberts, Henson, Williams, Jones, Phillips
1-8 Jenkins, Rees (c) Jones, AWJ, Davies, Lydiate, Jones, Warburton.
16-18 James, Bennett, Mitchell, Powell, Knoyle, Priestland, Hook.

For me with no consideration of what Gatland is likely to do:
15-9 Stoddart, Brew, Hook, Davies, Williams, Biggar, Peel
1-8 James, Hibbard, Jones, AWJ, Charteris, Turnbull, Faletau, Warburton
16-22 Jenkins, Rees, Gough, Jones, Evans, Tovey, North.

Your choice looks like its setup for Wales to play the rugby they like to. You really reckon Gatland will pick Henson? He doesn't look ready for club rugby - never mind international rugby. Also, Faletau MUST play. Peel gets your backs going too. Stoddart over Byrne any day. And YES Id pick Brew too.

Clever rotation, your dead right notch,

Try out combinations that are likely to actually happen, rather than just playing lads for the sake of it. Boss Sexton McFadden or Reddan OGara Darcy for example.

Get these players gelling together and see what happens

This should be a physical game

Hughie, i'm just about to wack that on! Probably should have gone with it being at Kingsholm and all that and Sharples playing!

Yeah he talked about that 'penalty kick' he said not many people realise he actually missed it!