England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

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Off goes Rahul...at least he doesn't waste a review ! That was stone dead.
Jimmy on course for ten ?

Rahane in next as Kohli was off the field too long...

Seeing a lot of posts around “psychological” battle and how things here will affect the series going forward - haven’t we seen with england in England for ages now they are so different from game to game that all of that is actually hogwash?

And clearly it is for India - otherwise they wouldn’t be making such a comeback in this game after the first two

I read somewhere Eng will play Broad and Anderson thru this series....without break and rest them for the tour of Lanka

Kohli, probably the best batsman in the world now on form

India 352/7 declared. Hardik adds an unbeaten 52 to his Michelle. Just the small matter of 520 runs to win. Interestingly Ashwin still limping with that hip problem

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Seeing a lot of posts around “psychological” battle and how things here will affect the series going forward - haven’t we seen with england in England for ages now they are so different from game to game that all of that is actually hogwash?

And clearly it is for India - otherwise they wouldn’t be making such a comeback in this game after the first two

India making a habit of turning up into a series a little late. Happened in South Africa as well. Also worth noting the toss has been vital in this series and Root's won it every time. We might be 0-2 had the Indians won the toss in the first two matches

Kohli undisputedly the world's best batsman. He's only competition for that crown was his great mate de Villiers and he's not around anymore.

521 runs to win.

Cricketing immortality, and the series, awaits England...

England have knocked the 20 off, so the other 500 should flow from here

Unscathed at stumps.

Might get interesting if England finish up at 300/3 by this time tomorrow, but I doubt that would happen - probably all over by tea time tomorrow.

Now would be a good time for Cook’s one big score per 20 innings...

Also a note on England’s catching, just seen a stat on Twitter that says since the start of 2015 there are no two worse slip catchers than Cook (70%) and Stokes (74%). Minimum 10 catches.

Mike Selig always used to say when you start dropping slip catches that is a sign a batsman’s eyes have gone...

a near perfect day  for India...exactly the script I wished

--All boxes checked....Pujara got runs....and Pandya cracked a run a ball 50 and an unbeaten one.....boosting his credentials as an all-rounder and his averages in this game both with bat and ball....I had been a fan of his potential and rating him as India's most exciting potential... but runs and wickets timely will keep selectors & media away  from building pressure on him....and allow Kohli to give him a run
Although the situation was easy for him when he was batting....but its a matter of time when before he starts producing such run a ball innings under pressure too

--and Kohli got another 100...could have been one in each inning....like he did in Aus
Only blemish....didn't get an English wicket......Ashwin got one to turn and bounce but is in discomfort

--Watch Bumrah's ball delivered in slow motion.... and wrist action closely......he's the extreme opposite of Anderson's perfect seam...
scrambled seam mostly and rotated wrists almost like Murali at point of deliver......he's giving the ball a rip..... almost bowling spin/ cutters and doing so at speeds hitting 93mph at times...

while on one hand he's wasting the seam / swing element of new ball.....on the other hand when the pitch gets a bit up & down.....and grips for spinners....this guy will produce some unplayable deliveries.....that will either scoot and keep low or jump off a length...so watch out for him tomm...I think he's a freak talent

A mighty fine day for India. Kohli with another ton, runs for Cheteshwar Pujara at last, and an entertaining 50 from Pandya. Bit disappointed Pant didn't last too long in the 2nd innings, and Rahane somewhat lost the plot latter on in the day. Think India could have pushed pass a lead of 550 by the time they batted, had Rahane and even Pujara showed some intent. Yes, it was important to bat time, to take the score to be a safe enough place, as well as give Ravichandran Ashwin a bit of time off. This track, if the sun's out, is on the flatter side. So if Cook gets in and if there is a major contribution from Root and Stokes, India won't find it easy.
The biggest concern going into tomorrow is Ashwin. As swing or seam isn't massive, he will probably have to be the led strike bowler. But he seems very injured in those couple of overs wherein he got a couple of balls to turn and bounce.

msp83 wrote:A mighty fine day for India. Kohli with another ton, runs for Cheteshwar Pujara at last, and an entertaining 50 from Pandya. Bit disappointed Pant didn't last too long in the 2nd innings, and Rahane somewhat lost the plot latter on in the day. Think India could have pushed pass a lead of 550 by the time they batted, had Rahane and even Pujara showed some intent. Yes, it was important to bat time, to take the score to be a safe enough place, as well as give Ravichandran Ashwin a bit of time off. This track, if the sun's out, is on the flatter side. So if Cook gets in and if there is a major contribution from Root and Stokes, India won't find it easy.
The biggest concern going into tomorrow is Ashwin. As swing or seam isn't massive, he will probably have to be the led strike bowler. But he seems very injured in those couple of overs wherein he got a couple of balls to turn and bounce.

There is a BIG chasm between the level of FC & masala limited over cricket Pant has played and facing anderson / Broad on this seaming pitch........and he needs time and 5 odd innings to bridge this gulf....in terms of leaving balls & negotiating movement & adjusting his technique
Dhoni could NEVER adjust...so we have to wait out and see if Pant is a FTB of IPL and ranji or can make the cut

Pitch is seaming and ball keeps swinging....it's easy only "relative" to T2...and almost as difficult as T1......and it is not easy to hit the bowling apart much as you try......and once you get in the get-set see off mode...it's not easy to hit apart....you fall trying to switch gears........dhawan and rahane both fell to the "easiest" of the 5 English bowlers
Survival is the key and put away bad deliveries on the way...force the pace extremely difficult and that's  why Pandya's inning was a little gem.

My only concern is ashwin.....he's not able to pivot....and no one seems of have explained what the injury is......and whether he will be fit for next test
it's not a hamstring...and not a dislocated hip.....could be gluteal muscles overuse......like a big cramp in the buttock, which also cramps the groin.....you can play thru discomfort for a bit.....and it needs edible muscle relaxants and a lot of deep tissue massage for a week or so......might be touch and go for next test

In test cricket, Mahendra Singh Dhoni didn't have the kind of success that he has had in ODIs. In all formats, his game has never been based on a textbook technique. But certainly is the most successful wicketkeeper batsman for India. And last time roud when India toured England, along with Vijay and Rahane, Dhoni was India's most successful batsman.
Lets see what young Rishabh can do. It isn't easy dealing with the likes of Anderson in their backyard even if you have a played a hundred tests. But Rishabh looked good in the first innings, miles better than Dinesh Karthik across the 4 innings he played previously.
Lets just hope Pant has it in him, and that the potential would be realized sooner rather than later.

msp83 wrote:In test cricket, Mahendra Singh Dhoni didn't have the kind of success that he has had in ODIs. In all formats, his game has never been based on a textbook technique. But certainly is the most successful wicketkeeper batsman for India. And last time roud when India toured England, along with Vijay and Rahane, Dhoni was India's most successful batsman.
Lets see what young Rishabh can do. It isn't easy dealing with the likes of Anderson in their backyard even if you have a played a hundred tests. But Rishabh looked good in the first innings, miles better than Dinesh Karthik across the 4 innings he played previously.
Lets just hope Pant has it in him, and that the potential would be realized sooner rather than later.

the kind of pitches we have had in SA and on this tour.....dhoni would average 10
so if Pant does 20 also during 3 tests...he is doing OK

How big does this opening partnership have to be to give England a sniff. 150? 200? 300-3 would put England in a strong position, but no better than 50/50. They lost 10 wickets in a session in just this test. 300-3 could easily become 340 all out.

England need to show some resistance. The batsmen got us into this mess, now they at least need to show some fight even if they can't complete the job. Players need to play for themselves. Get themselves in, get themselves a big score. They don't need to worry about time or the match situation. Just put a high price on your wicket and show some fight.

Yep all we can hope for is to take it to a fifth day to get some overs into the Indian bowlers legs - some runs for Jennings, Pope and Stokes would be handy too

I will be astonished if they are still batting an hour after tea.

As soon as Kohli and Rahane exposed Root's overconfident gamble to send India in , the advantage has been strongly with the tourists. Whenever the opposition bat first and score 300 plus , England can be virtually guaranteed to collapse in reply - though perhaps not usually as dramatically as in this game !
The batting simply isn't good enough. And there seems regrettably little appetite for a fight - in contrast to the bowlers , who never seem to stop trying.

I really hope they make a liar of me tomorrow. But I'm not holding my breath.

It really is about batsmen restoring some confidence now, but I dont hold put a great deal of hope they will even manage thsy.
As for the target Robo....its not even a thing. Scoring 400 plus would be an incredible acheivement, chasing down 500 ... It sinply doesnt happen.
India can use aggresive field placings and theres enough assistance for the seamers to mean even if England bat well they will givr chances.
With the psychological position of thr game even batting out the day and making 300 will be a big ask.

Any updates on Bairstows finger? Last id heard he was thought fit to bat....but us it worth the risk (albeit india wont be bowling at australian pace)

Englands slip catching is truely horiffic. Its not even like the ball is whizzing through off slogs. Some of these are regulation chances. Again its hard to see where the fix is other than a collective mental reset. I assime Cooks being kept in there becuase hes not as mobile and agile around the field?

alfie wrote:I will be astonished if they are still batting an hour after tea.

As soon as Kohli and Rahane exposed Root's overconfident gamble to send India in , the advantage has been strongly with the tourists. Whenever the opposition bat first and score 300 plus , England can be virtually guaranteed to collapse in reply - though perhaps not usually as dramatically as in this game !  
The batting simply isn't good enough. And there seems regrettably little appetite for a fight - in contrast to the bowlers , who never seem to stop trying.

I really hope they make a liar of me tomorrow.   But I'm not holding my breath.

I’d be honesty surprised to find they’ve made it through to tea. Two sessions, nought to play for (realistically) especially if wickets tumble and woeful form, combining with a pitch into day four and inability to play swing and spin. Stokes and Buttler both want to counter attack, Bairstow has the fracture. That’s a nice recipe for two sessions

I suppose you could argue two ways for Cook and Jennings:

Either this is one hell of a task as they have to make a start again and that’s been a struggle
Or this is their best chance for an ok score cos if they make a start and fail again after, two starts combined will see them soaring up to near fifty.

I wouldn't back England to chase 250, such is the torrid state of the batting order. 500+ seems to be in the realm of pure fantasy. I think the best England can hope for is one big partnership that temporarily frightens the Indians.

Cook and Root are due some big scores, - maybe they could coalesce for this innings?

Agree that England's slip catching woes is a massive problem and has been for some time now.

It's another cloudy bowling day. The only thing to be salvaged now is some time in the middle for a batting line up that seems to have nearly every top order player out of form. The exception is Bairstow, who is crocked. It is going to be a telling day for the likes of Jennings and Buttler, who will probably be dropped if they fail again

Agree with the general consensus here. If England make it through the day I will be gobsmacked. I see them being bowled out for around 200 to 250.

All England can get from this game now is some confidence-boosting big scores from their run shy batsmen. If the likes of Cook, Jennings, Root, Pope and Stokes can hit 50s it will boost their confidence for the final two tests.

All over some time today. Looking ahead to fourth Test, the only time - I think - that England have been pegged back from 2-0 to 2-2 in a five-Test series at home was against SA in 1955. Eng ended up winning 3-2 that year.

I am very curious to see how well we will bat today. Will we win? Absolutely not. However, I am curious to see if any of our top 8 (excluding cook) have the technique, and more importantly the mentality to bat time and force the Indians to get them out. Today the counter attack is not an option, but I doubt some of the players are good enough or game intelligent enough to change their style and keep certain shots in the locker. The selectors should be using today to make final judgements on some of our batsmen I.e. Jennings, Buttler.

Jennings hangs his bat out for the 316th time in his test career, and England are one down in the opening over of the day. That should be the end of his test match playing days.

10 wickets in a session again?

Didn't take long to see off Jennings.

Not wishing to be unkind ; but that really should be the last time we see him in an England shirt. He just doesn't look near good enough.

Time to try someone else .

Ok so Jennings failed the test after only five balls....is it really worth persisting with him?

Jennings - 18 test match innings. Average of below 25. No score above 50 since 2016.

Sharma carving England open with a classical line and length.

32/2. Hope Bairstow doesn't bother to bat. No point.

sirfredperry wrote:All over some time today. Looking ahead to fourth Test, the only time - I think - that England have been pegged back from 2-0 to 2-2 in a five-Test series at home was against SA in 1955. Eng ended up winning 3-2 that year.

Testing even my memory there , Sir Fred

1955. I was quite young and to be honest Test Cricket didn't really register until the following year and Jim Laker...

But a look at some old books confirms your story...sounds as if it was a terrific series , some really exciting matches and a lot of very fine players at their peak.
Strangely the return series in SA a year or so later produced a similar tale : England winning the first two , the third a close draw and SA winning the last two to tie the series.

With the batting frailties shown by both sides you wouldn't bet against 3-2 one way or the other this time...

LivinginItaly wrote:Ok so Jennings failed the test after only five balls....is it really worth persisting with him?

I think not. Mind you , Cook isn't doing much better ...but it seems he is generally being got out by very good balls whereas Jennings just seems to hang his bat at anything...
Plus of course a little difference in past records

I would like to see a right hander in to partner Cook , think it would give the bowlers a bit more to think about.

The way things are going this morning tea may well not be required. Have to say Ishant has bowled rather well. He's having a good series

Pathetic as usual. Jennings has to be dropped, Cook is hardly doing anything though either. It will be Jennings that gets the chop, but Cook is lucky to be in the team as well

VTR wrote:Pathetic as usual. Jennings has to be dropped, Cook is hardly doing anything though either. It will be Jennings that gets the chop, but Cook is lucky to be in the team as well

Cook's continuing run of outs is a big concern.  When you put it together with a number of drops at slip you have to think his eyes perhaps aren't what they were.
The odd thing is though that in between some misses he still collects some absolute blinders ; and of course his last two "big" scores have been very big indeed !  So some mixed indicators.

He has actually looked quite good in several of these recent twenty-odds ; which just makes it more strange that he hasn't been able to go on in any.  True he has seemed to attract some very good balls ; but as a long time opener he has often faced a lot of very good balls and managed to deal with them well enough in the past...

Given they can't find one opener let alone two , there will be no haste to push him out the door - as long as he retains the desire to play.  But obviously he has to get back into runs sooner or later or he can't expect to remain a fixture.  I for one wonder if he might be able to wind down his career batting three after two younger openers ; but : same problem - who are the new ones ?

I do quite like what I see of Pope. Batting isn't easy this morning ; and he's batting a couple of spots higher than he's accustomed to doing for Surrey - plus a bit of pressure , you might say

But he has once again started positively. Remains to be seen if he can go on and make the serious score that would ensure his place for the short to medium term.

In an ideal world he'd have been eased in at six (five at worst) But once Smith had decided to solve top order problems by installing an apparently fixed number seven and locking keepers and all rounders into those positions , that option was removed from the table. The good thing being if he can make a go of it at four , he will go a long way to settling one of the problem positions for England.

I still don't like Root batting at three , by the way. But he's battling away here this morning ; and I doubt they're going to move him back to four in a hurry...there is a strong streak of stubbornness in Bayliss - and Smith , I think.

...and there goes Root. Very poor shot. He's not playing with a clear mind at present , I'm afraid. Big concern ...to add to the list

Just seen that Moeen scored a ton in the CC yesterday. Signs of a return of confidence could be enough for a recall? Rashids not exactly had the opportunity to shine but given hie desperately England need to strengthen their batting hes making a case.
The specialists and slips are still a greater concern but Im being nudged into grufging acceptance its a valid option.

Root might not want to bat at 3, but there's hardly anyone good enough to replace him at 3 or decent openers to protect Root.

Root first 11 Tests against India at least a fifty in every match. Last two matches no fifties.

Dreadful shot by Pope 62-4

That was a nice catch by Rahul...they've taken a couple this morning . But a "nothing" shot by the skipper . I know it's good conditions for bowling but really England have sunk to extraordinary depths in a short time...

And now an even better catch by Kohli does for Pope !

Oh dear...will they last to lunch ?

England when they’re good are very good - when they’re bad they’re very bad. Not a lot in between, thus why we see these wild swings in performances.

Think they’ll have to dust themselves off in the break between tests - put this one down as a bad test and move on

What are the pitches like in Southampton these days? Don't want to see these Indians playing two spinners

Buttler dropped by Pant could've been even worst. Bumrah fitness is impressive 12 over spell consistently high 80s

Gooseberry wrote:Just seen that Moeen scored a ton in the CC yesterday. Signs of a return of confidence could be enough for a recall? Rashids not exactly had the opportunity to shine but given hie desperately England need to strengthen their batting hes making a case.
The specialists and slips are still a greater concern but Im being nudged into grufging acceptance its a valid option.

Going to be a fun selection meeting , isn't it ?

The magnitude of this defeat really does mean they have to act decisively , no ? Forget team building ; if they want to save the series they need to get an XI suited to these conditions , this opponent. If that means bringing back Bell (Example Only , I stress then so be it. Worry about Sri Lanka after The Oval : pick a team to win home Tests.
I don't see Rashid in that , myself. He's not going to wreck India in the red ball game ; and he doesn't give the control that England need to rest their strike bowlers - who are their match winners. He may tour in the winter ; but for now he's a luxury they can't carry.

Might be Moeen...could be Bess , who did nothing wrong against Pakistan ? Or Leach...

The batting is the bigger worry though. Especially if they have to replace Bairstow. No one at present looks like a realistic Test batsman !
Though a week ago you could say the same of India , Kohli excepted...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:England when they’re good are very good - when they’re bad they’re very bad. Not a lot in between, thus why we see these wild swings in performances.

Think they’ll have to dust themselves off in the break between tests - put this one down as a bad test and move on

There is some truth in that , Olly. But isn't that attitude of "OK , bad hair day , move on" partly responsible for the repeated lapses ?
Should they continue to accept wild inconsistency as being as good as it gets ? Or should they aim for something a little more ..."professional" , might be the word ?
Of course I don't know what goes on in the dressing room or the nets. But posing the question...

I don't see Moeen really adding anything should be replace Bairstow or Rashid tbh. Moeen had that fluke series in 2014 but on the tour of India, he was absolutely trashed about. And yet another left hander will be right up Ishant's alley.

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:I don't see Moeen really adding anything should be replace Bairstow or Rashid tbh. Moeen had that fluke series in 2014 but on the tour of India, he was absolutely trashed about. And yet another left hander will be right up Ishant's alley.

Probably make more runs than Rashid . But it's true his recent (Test) form doesn't give rise to too much optimism.
Fair point about the left hand. But I disagree 2014 was a fluke...he has had good efforts against SA and Australia , at home. At his best , he belongs .

Not saying he's a lock. But has to be considered.

England make it to lunch just four down !

Only ten hours to block out

NEW WORLD RECORD - England have become the first team ever to have eight top-six batsmen dismissed for between 10 and 19 (inclusive) in a Test match.

Buttler and Stokes playing against type now...very patient since lunch and at least making India work for their rewards. I just hope that it won't be a case of a committed (though ultimately vain) hundred partnership now being followed by a return to reckless failure when it counts next match...
Would like to think that if they can play this way now they can carry the same sensible approach to the Rose Bowl : who knows ? It might rub off on Root too. Imagine batting conditions will be a little more friendly there so it is important England resolve to bat as if it is a Test Match rather than trying to pretend it is white ball cricket !