England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

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Off goes Rahul...at least he doesn't waste a review ! That was stone dead.
Jimmy on course for ten ?

Rahane in next as Kohli was off the field too long...

The extra half hour can be claimed if you are 9 down right? And aren't we already into extra time?

msp83 wrote:Think we are not going to get all the overs in today and that England will drag the game to the 5th day.

Even if they do it will be a very minor irritation.

msp83 wrote:The extra half hour can be claimed if you are 9 down right? And aren't we already into extra time?

No as they have now claimed the extra half hour with 8 wickets down.

I hope they dont survive, just for the people who will feel obliged to go.

A highly unlikely 50 partnership up between Rashid and Broad.

Ashwin is really producing some swingers with that new ball!. Nice to watch, how he's adding more to his bowling. Hope he stays fit for the remaining tests, and hopefully he and India will finish the job today.

Six overs left today. England 291 for 8. India striving for the last two wickets.

Broad caught in the slips. A Michelle Pfeiffer for Bumrah.

Congrats to Broad on becoming only the 5th test player to take over 400 wickets and score 3000 test runs.

Bumrah deserved that 5for. Really bowled with intensity. I worry about that action of his and the impact it will have on his body, but he's developing into a good all-condition test bowling prospect.

India's fast bowlers are quite frankly considerably fitter than ours. Bumrah has been rapid all day same can be said of Shami. Ishant and Pandya mid 80s all the time.

KL Rahul seven catches in the match.

A Rashid boundary brings up the 300 for England.

Rashid perhaps protecting his place in the side with this knock of 30 and his wickets.

Two overs left today. England 305 for 9.

One over left to play on day four. England 310 for 9.

Frustratingly, they will come back tomorrow. England see out the day to close on 311 for 9.

Free entry tomorrow surely?

No one will have criticised Rashid for just kicking the stumps over on that final delivery!

Anyway, the game is done. India bowled well in the morning and the evening, particularly Bumrah and Sharma, and England progressed further than I thought they would.

The series is very much alive.

England survived. Kohli tried everything, kept changing his bowlers.... But Anderson and Rashid managed to hang on. Rashid played and missed a few, edged and got dropped and when he was caught it was of a no-ball. Survived a review on umpire's call. In between, played a few nice shots as well. India will have to come backand do the job tomorrow. They should stay focused, shouldn't get carried away. Hope it doesn't take them long.

England, or at least two players showing they can actually bat when they put their minds to it. Anything like this sort of effort in the first innings could have made a difference. So challenge for the next match is some proper batting from all players in the first innings, rather than wait for the situation to be hopeless

I could only watch highlights, but was following on CI and my thougths

--Eng will feel a bit reprieved at playing out the day and eking 290 runs in the process....but I wouldn't read too much into that Butler inning or that partnership with Stokes....
when in a situation of hopelessness & certain defeat.....pressure of situation is gone and there is some free , chancy batting...which is what Butler did

I doubt he can repeat such free batting in a tight match situation

--Bumrah my man...the freak and a success in making....and I agree with msp that his actors makes you feel, he might break off any time
I think his shoulder take a lot of load....similar to Malinga...not in action but in excessive use of shoulder
They should not play him in masala ODIs and T20s

--i think Kohli attacks too much trying to get wickets.. and gives away too many easy runs-......it works for him more often than not so its only a small concern

Ashwin is not fit, but still came close to picking two odd wickets ....I hope he can play next test....we need him for his batting as much as his bowling

At least Stokes and Buttler showed some fight and England took it to a fifth day. Feel sure Moeen's heroics for Worcs won't go unnoticed.

sirfredperry wrote:At least Stokes and Buttler showed some fight and England took it to a fifth day. Feel sure Moeen's heroics for Worcs won't go unnoticed.

Bringing another all rounder into a messy batting line-up wouldn't help the situation at all in my opinion. Dropping Rashid would be harsh at this stage as well.

1.Cook
2.Jennings
3.Root (c)
4.Pope
5.Stokes
6.Buttler (wk)
7.Ali
8.Woakes
9.Rashid
10.Broad
11.Anderson

That feels likely as Moeen has been in the 13 man squad but it would also be painful to watch the batting order become even more disjointed.

Openers opening, batsman 3-5, all-rounder 6, wicket-keeper 7. An England cricket fan can but dream.

Duty281 wrote:No one will have criticised Rashid for just kicking the stumps over on that final delivery!

Anyway, the game is done. India bowled well in the morning and the evening, particularly Bumrah and Sharma, and England progressed further than I thought they would.

The series is very much alive.

Some rain forecast tomorrow, although probably no where near enough to wash out most of the play, but that's why it was important to reach the close - you never know what might happen.

Still too few of the England batsmen emerging with credit here - excellent from Buttler and Stokes, with the tail wagging, but the top 4 have had a few starts without contributing a match-defining innings yet.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Frustratingly, they will come back tomorrow. England see out the day to close on 311 for 9.

Free entry tomorrow surely?

£10 for adults and £5 for kids. With no refund once one ball is bowled. Come on cricket.

I think it may have changed but now free to get in and also free parking. I'd be amazed if more than about 200 people turn up. Realistically with two tailenders starting again this will last one or two overs

JDizzle wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Frustratingly, they will come back tomorrow. England see out the day to close on 311 for 9.

Free entry tomorrow surely?

£10 for adults and £5 for kids. With no refund once one ball is bowled. Come on cricket.

Nottingham have changed their mind. Admission free on last day. Right decision.

Mo made that 200 from Number three. He’s certainly got to be a better top 5 prospect than Stokes. I think they should throw him in at 4 and protect Pope.

He also took the first 4 wickets of the second innings and his figures are fantastic

If Moeen were to be recalled, it should be as a batsman who can bowl. In the ideal world he would bat at 3 allowing Root to drop down to 4 ( best place for batter captain?) with Pope slotting into his county position of 6.

Problem I have is whether Moeen is actually solid enough to bat at 3 especially as both openers are currently walking wickets.

If we can sort out the top 3, hopefully improving the slip catching, then the rest of the batting looks pretty strong. Of course still major issues with the bowling overseas but hey how.

It isn't rocket science that England's issues are in the batting department so the last thing it needs is drafting in another all-rounder. It needs specialist batsmen (preferably right-handed and with time on their side). Suggestions?

Moeen ain't the best technically but delivers as a combination of grit and some intelligent stroke making....worth an average of 35 as a batsman and his bowling should be deemed bonus...right time to get him in as a middle order bat

KP_fan wrote:Moeen ain't the best technically but delivers as a combination of grit and some intelligent stroke making....worth an average of 35 as a batsman and his bowling should be deemed bonus...right time to get him in as a middle order bat

I don't buy that. The middle order is not England's problem as can be seen this series with knocks by Woakes, Curran, Buttler and Stokes. The top order needs major work though.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Moeen ain't the best technically but delivers as a combination of grit and some intelligent stroke making....worth an average of 35 as a batsman and his bowling should be deemed bonus...right time to get him in as a middle order bat

I don't buy that. The middle order is not England's problem as can be seen this series with knocks by Woakes, Curran, Buttler and Stokes. The top order needs major work though.

No.4 onward is middle order and while Root and Cook occupy No. 3 and 1 respectively.......Moeen ain't coming in at No.2
He can bat anywhere from 4 to 8 I think

I think Moeen will be back, Vince could also be in line for a recall. I'm not saying that's two versions of Bradman right there but we have to be realistic about options

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Buttler finally converting one of his fifties - magnificent knock. The only English batsman to face over 100 balls in an innings three times this summer - one selection Mr Smith got right (despite some nonsense posting calling for him to be dropped after two low scores!)

Now time to stop batting him at 7, let him bat at 6 rest of this series with the gloves

I now wish I'd stayed up to see the rest of the Buttler/Stokes partnership ! Delighted for Jos ...and probably more important than the score is that he has now twice played measured innings in Tests this year : the unfortunate part is that both have come in second innings when the game was already effectively over. He still has to show that he can make runs when it counts - but based on this effort I see no reason why he can't.

I don't agree that it proves Smith was "right" in his selection though : at the start of the summer the problem facing English batting was filling 2 , 3 and 5. Picking Buttler (and batting him at seven) didn't really address this , except in that it forced everyone else up the order . Which hasn't helped : Bairstow has been better than Malan at five , but not outrageously so ; Malan was quickly found out at four , and soon discarded - and replaced by the promising Pope who is clearly too high at this stage and will almost certainly be squeezed out shortly . And worst of all , Root has gone from playing splendidly at four to struggling at three...
So the selection of Buttler actually achieved nothing ...a solution to a problem that didn't exist , really : the six to nine spots were fine as they were.

But we are where we are. So the issue is how to go forward - and it isn't altogether straightforward.

Right now , with Bairstow injured , it is logical for Buttler to bat at six or seven and keep wicket. But when Jonny returns , England have to make a choice : and logic says whichever of them doesn't keep should bat at
five. Logic that existed before but was ignored...perhaps this innings of Buttler's will help Smith/Bayliss/Root see sense ?

Of course this still won't fix the real problems. And frankly I don't fancy either of the JBs any higher than five so it never will. In fact it rather adds to the log jam in the late middle . We now have five players clearly capable of scoring centuries from (preferably) six to eight. And clearly they can't all bat there . So if we wish to have Bairstow Buttler Stokes Woakes and Moeen all in the side , two of them are going to have to occupy other spots ...I just hope that doesn't cause distortion in the selection of bowlers ...(Rashid ? Curran ?)

Never mind : we can take heart from the fact that England at least batted out the day. And perhaps they will realize they can play at less than a hundred miles an hour when the situation calls for it in future ? In the first innings when the games are live ? We can hope...

As to getting Root back where he belongs at four - the best way of ensuring better results , I think : that requires a new top order player ...applications invited

It should be noted that England's specialist batsmen in this series have scored: 398 runs at 19.9

England's assorted all-rounders, wicket-keepers and spare wicket-keepers in this series: 815 runs at 37.05

England's Broad and Anderson in this series: 43 runs at 10.75

We keep trying these specialist bats, and they keep failing. Maybe just pick Moeen, who’s got a better track record than other prospects, and go with it...

KP_fan wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Moeen ain't the best technically but delivers as a combination of grit and some intelligent stroke making....worth an average of 35 as a batsman and his bowling should be deemed bonus...right time to get him in as a middle order bat

I don't buy that. The middle order is not England's problem as can be seen this series with knocks by Woakes, Curran, Buttler and Stokes. The top order needs major work though.

No.4 onward is middle order and while Root and Cook occupy No. 3 and 1 respectively.......Moeen ain't coming in at No.2
He can bat anywhere from 4 to 8 I think

Moeen is a busted flush. Take a look at his stats over the last year in test cricket - it makes for depressing reading. Selecting him now would be a regressive step not progressive. If we are looking for a batting solution I'd even sooner see Ian Bell recalled as specialists are what England need and that ain't Moeen.

How's the weather ? No chance of torrential rain all day ?



Don't worry , I wouldn't wish that on India ...they've earned their win. Pity this morning is so much the Inevitable Result - and may only take a ball or two ; but the series is alive : hope we get a good Test pitch at the Rose Bowl...

CaledonianCraig wrote:Rashid perhaps protecting his place in the side with this knock of 30 and his wickets.

Maybe. I am not sure his wickets - which tend to come too late and too expensively - are enough to swing it. Credit where it's due but a fighting (but a bit lucky ) 30 doesn't really make much difference. He will tour in the winter but I don't think he adds enough to this team at the moment in English conditions,

Wonder what chance of Burns getting in ahead of Jennings for the last 2 tests. As it seems Jennings has maybe reached his level.
Cook seems like he needs a rest. As apart from the odd excellent innings, tends to fail more often know.
Roots a worry. Excellent player, but his failure to turn the amount of 50's he reaches into 100's, or bat long is becoming an issue.

Personally if your not putting Root down 1 (which is were I think he should bat), I'd put Bairstow 4, Pope 5, Butler 6, Stokes 7, Woakes 8.

As for Rashid. Fair play he's gone okay so far, and would think he's done enough for Sri Lanka. But he's is still not the long term answer in my opinion.

alfie wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Rashid perhaps protecting his place in the side with this knock of 30 and his wickets.

Maybe.  I am not sure his wickets - which tend to come too late and too expensively - are enough to swing it. Credit where it's due but a fighting (but a bit lucky ) 30 doesn't really make much difference.  He will tour in the winter but I don't think he adds enough to this team at the moment in English conditions,

Granted. I'd love to see a fresh-faced spinner come in and do a great job but at present nobody has really stepped up to the plate. I was more thinking of for the next test or two when I typed that message.

And India complete the win beating England by 203 runs with Anderson last man to fall for 11.

Great performance from India less so from England. Now both sides have differing question marks over selections for the next test.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:It should be noted that England's specialist batsmen in this series have scored: 398 runs at 19.9

England's assorted all-rounders, wicket-keepers and spare wicket-keepers in this series: 815 runs at 37.05

England's Broad and Anderson in this series: 43 runs at 10.75

We keep trying these specialist bats, and they keep failing. Maybe just pick Moeen, who’s got a better track record than other prospects, and go with it...

Been the way for a while though , hasn't it ? Thing is , it's a damn sight easier batting at six and seven than facing the new ball...which is why we have specialists ...

Can you seriously see Moeen - or Stokes or Buttler for that matter - at three ? Moeen at four might do as well as Pope ...but it won't solve the real problems .

No : they have to find some proper top order players. Eighteen counties : surely must be someone !

Well done India

Ashwin gets one for his trouble. Didn't take long...

At least England showed more fight than often of late . Look forward to the 4th Test . We have a few days to discuss selection

As has been said by some, England need to pick specialist batsmen, not more bits and pieces all rounders like Moeen.

In the Nottingham test, England only had four batters who averaged over 40 in FC cricket. One of them is in the worst run of his career, one is very new, one is struggling to deal with the pressure, and one is now injured.

This series is very much alive. England must address their batting frailties before all else.

So we lost by 203 runs and the worlds best batsman made 200 runs in this match. Root really needs to buck up his ideas as he's falling further behind Kohli after every innings.

Athers just read out an incredible stat, Kohli 33 Tests as captain never picked an unchanged side. Remarkable. With Ashwin injured that looks likely to become 34 Tests with a change

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:It should be noted that England's specialist batsmen in this series have scored: 398 runs at 19.9

England's assorted all-rounders, wicket-keepers and spare wicket-keepers in this series: 815 runs at 37.05

England's Broad and Anderson in this series: 43 runs at 10.75

We keep trying these specialist bats, and they keep failing. Maybe just pick Moeen, who’s got a better track record than other prospects, and go with it...

Been the way for a while though , hasn't it ?  Thing is , it's a damn sight easier batting at six and seven than facing the new ball...which is why we have specialists ...

Can you seriously see Moeen  - or Stokes or Buttler for that matter - at three ?   Moeen at four might do as well as Pope ...but it won't solve the real problems .

No : they have to find some proper top order players.  Eighteen counties : surely must be someone !

Tbf, Moeen has batted nearly his entire career at Worcs in the top 3, it's only England who have chosen to use him in the middle to lower order.

Double hundred and eight wickets in the match so far against Yorkshire (6 and counting in the second innings) to go with a five-for in his last first class game, as well as a T20 hundred in his last game. Certainly putting his name into the hat.

India did well from getting Bumrah into the team...and (somewhat surprisingly ) from recalling Dhawan.
Less sure about young Pant : I know msp and KP-f are quite keen on him ; but he didn't much impress me with his keeping in this match and his batting was inconsequential . Certainly he will continue for this series but I withhold judgement at the moment.

If Ashwin doesn't come up they can surely consider Jadeja ?

Moeen now has five second innings wickets to go with his double hundred. To be honest I would bring Moeen in for Rashid. They are probably both a similar level with the ball, but Moeen is significantly better with the bat.

alfie wrote:India did well from getting Bumrah into the team...and (somewhat surprisingly ) from recalling Dhawan.
Less sure about young Pant :  I know msp and KP-f are quite keen on him ; but he didn't much impress me with his keeping in this match and his batting was inconsequential .  Certainly he will continue for this series but I withhold judgement at the moment.

If Ashwin doesn't come up they can surely consider Jadeja ?

that was a question that Artherton missed asking Kohli.....the exact problem with Ashwin and his chances of recovering in 10 odd days from now
I think he will recover....it's a cramped Glutes muscles
If not I would pick Kuldeep...thought that depletes the batting further.....as Ashwin is handy with the bat too as might be Jadeja
But Jadeja is a Home track bowler, with few variations....and won't make the impact on these pitches

Pant was tidy behind the stumps & has to work on leaving the ball.....he is a lower-middle order version of Dhawan in terms of technique ( or lack of it).....and has to focus and leave and be selective in his stroke play.

Kohli needs to win a toss or two.....and although history is against it......I put Ind as slightly ahead of Eng in chances for winning next two tests, assuming neither gets curtailed by rain

My team for the next test would be as follows (assuming Bairstow is out):

Cook
Burns
Hameed
Root
Pope
Stokes
Buttler (wk)
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

I know Hameed has no form, but I would gamble that he is one who would rise to the occasion a little like for his debut.