The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

by Pot Hale Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:16 am

First topic message reminder :

South African media reports emerging around comments made at PRO14 launch by SA Rugby president Mark Alexander that South African players will be better off playing in the northern hemisphere.

Alexander hinted South African rugby could be heading north on a more permanent basis in the near future.

The Cheetahs and Kings joined the Pro14 last year and there is a strong possibility that two more local teams will be included in the competition next season.

‘It’s a long-term investment. We have options now and in future. At some point in time, in future, if we don’t want to stay in the south [in Super Rugby], we can move north,’ said Alexander.

He added that the involvement of local players and coaches in Europe is beneficial for South African rugby.

‘The Pro14 is a good competition for the players and coaches who’re playing against tier-one nations each weekend. When we become a full Pro14 member next season, we’ll be the only nation who plays in the north and the south, and the major benefit of playing in the northern hemisphere is the players are better off.

‘With the structure of the Pro14 competition the way it is, it’s easier for travelling, with distances between places less than in the south, and the time zones are also better. When you consider player welfare and what’s best for them, then the north is better.’

The rumors are that it will be the Griquas and Pumas who will be proposed by SARU next season as their two new teams. How well that will be received by the other participating unions remains to be seen given the poor quality of the Kings thus far. SARU plans to cut the number of professional players in their system from approx 900 to 400 odd using a draft system and to spread the talent across the 8 professional teams.

by Pot Hale Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:17 pm

Brendan wrote:Assuming Ospreys win tomorrow the playoffs are hotting up nicely.

Leinster seem far enough ahead in Conference B. 2nd - 5th is only divided by 3pts (though I expect Treviso to drop a little).
Conference A Glasgow have been sucked right back into the fight. If they lost their a game or two in the next few rounds they could drop to 3rd. Ospreys after this round play Blues and Glasgow which could see them 5th or 1st/2nd.

Hotting up nicely. Playoffs and Champion Cup spots will be some battle.

Agreed, Brendan, the sharp end of the season is building up nicely. Benetton look a little high given their double Xmas derby against Zebre albeit their rivals have not been rollovers this season. There’s a good possibility that all 4 provinces make it to the playoffs this season which would be a great achievement.

by Brendan Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:45 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Brendan wrote:Assuming Ospreys win tomorrow the playoffs are hotting up nicely.

Leinster seem far enough ahead in Conference B. 2nd - 5th is only divided by 3pts (though I expect Treviso to drop a little).
Conference A Glasgow have been sucked right back into the fight. If they lost their a game or two in the next few rounds they could drop to 3rd. Ospreys after this round play Blues and Glasgow which could see them 5th or 1st/2nd.

Hotting up nicely. Playoffs and Champion Cup spots will be some battle.

Agreed, Brendan, the sharp end of the season is building up nicely. Benetton look a little high given their double Xmas derby against Zebre albeit their rivals have not been rollovers this season. There’s a good possibility that all 4 provinces make it to the playoffs this season which would be a great achievement.

I think Ulster and Leinster should make it in Con B.

Munster should in Con A but need to start winning away from home against the big boys. Connacht are looking good but so are Ospreys, Blues also are looking like they are still in the fight. The problem Connacht have is they play Ulster the two Welsh teams play Dragons. Not sure if still the case but up until the Leinster game they had the second best defence behind Leinster in the league.

4 strong provinces is good for the national team. There are two strong Scothish teams and threes strong team plus one Italian. That's 10 strong teams. 4 of the teams are 50:50 in their wins v losses.

by Brendan Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:06 am

Not sure if anyone has noticed but if Cheetahs win their two games in hand against Kings with TBPs they will be on 32. Same as Blues and 5 behind Ospreys and Connacht. They are now back in the running for a playoff spot.

Next three games are 2 v kings and home v Zebre. Next year with the changes to the Currie Cup and reduction in squad sizes across the board they should be stronger at the start of the season.

by LordDowlais Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:30 pm

Attendances were down for the Welsh derbies over the Christmas period, I wonder why that happened, when the Pro14 is doing as well as ever in Wales. Rolling Eyes

by munkian Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:08 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Attendances were down for the Welsh derbies over the Christmas period, I wonder why that happened, when the Pro14 is doing as well as ever in Wales.

Because they weren't on the traditional days they usually were over Christmas you plank.

by Stone Motif Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:26 pm

munkian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Attendances were down for the Welsh derbies over the Christmas period, I wonder why that happened, when the Pro14 is doing as well as ever in Wales.

Because they weren't on the traditional days they usually were over Christmas you plank.

And not even true as far as the Dragons were concerned. Best home gate in three years for a Christmas derby.

Should have checked that little factoid before he let it be posted on the Fail site let alone waving it about on here.

by **RiscaGame** Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:50 pm

I have been expecting something off the back of that wail article. It typified why a lot of people treat it with such disdain, with a clickbait headline and no analysis or worthwhile comparisons. Still, it has its effect for its target celeb magazine audience, I guess.

But I must apologise anyway. I didn’t believe it, when it was said that the Premiership would overtake the regions and it was proven to be true. Some great attendances over Christmas. I’m surprised there hasn’t been an article about it, from the source of all hot rugby gossip walesonline.

by Kingshu Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:25 pm

Rugby pass had a article with Donal Lenihan in which he said the two SA sides that are looking to make up the PRO 16 are the Sharks and the Bulls if so that would be great news as if it was Griquas and Pumas it would feel we have the bottom 4 SA teams and super Rugby has the top 4, I would also expect Griquas and Pumas would be about Cheetahs level. Whereas Bulls and Sharks would be better teams, it would also be an even mix of teams form SA in Pro 16 and super rugby. I wonder where he got the teams from though and would it be reliable?

by Pot Hale Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:54 pm

Kingshu wrote:Rugby pass had a article with Donal Lenihan in which he said the two SA sides that are looking to make up the PRO 16 are the Sharks and the Bulls if so that would be great news as if it was Griquas and Pumas it would feel we have the bottom 4 SA teams and super Rugby has the top 4, I would also expect Griquas and Pumas would be about Cheetahs level. Whereas Bulls and Sharks would be better teams, it would also be an even mix of teams form SA in Pro 16 and super rugby. I wonder where he got the teams from though and would it be reliable?

Rugby Pass? That bastion of factual journalism?

Hmm - probably means we'll get the Zimbabwean Exile 3rds and Cape Town Old Mountaineers Representative XV.

by marty2086 Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:35 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Attendances were down for the Welsh derbies over the Christmas period, I wonder why that happened, when the Pro14 is doing as well as ever in Wales.

Really? Which attendances?

by LordDowlais Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:30 am

munkian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Attendances were down for the Welsh derbies over the Christmas period, I wonder why that happened, when the Pro14 is doing as well as ever in Wales.

Because they weren't on the traditional days they usually were over Christmas you plank.

And why is that ?

by marty2086 Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:29 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Attendances were down for the Welsh derbies over the Christmas period, I wonder why that happened, when the Pro14 is doing as well as ever in Wales.

Really? Which attendances?

by geoff999rugby Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:46 am

There was a small drop of just over 1000 over the 4 matches.
Statistically meaningless due to different dates, times and who players who where.
Need to look at the season as whole to draw any meaningful conclusions

In itself this proves nothing

by marty2086 Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:53 am

geoff999rugby wrote:There was a small drop of just over 1000 over the 4 matches.
Statistically meaningless due to different dates, times and who players who where.
Need to look at the season as whole to draw any meaningful conclusions

In itself this proves nothing

The bigger drop was last year from the year before, 7500 drop in total attendances

by LordDowlais Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:46 am

Also, there was supposed to be a live game on every weekend on S4C, there has not been a Pro14 game on this channel for weeks.

by marty2086 Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:52 am

LordDowlais wrote:Also, there was supposed to be a live game on every weekend on S4C, there has not been a Pro14 game on this channel for weeks.

It's actually 12 days since they showed a match Rolling Eyes

by LordDowlais Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:57 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Also, there was supposed to be a live game on every weekend on S4C, there has not been a Pro14 game on this channel for weeks.

It's actually 12 days since they showed a match

Live ?

by marty2086 Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:59 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Also, there was supposed to be a live game on every weekend on S4C, there has not been a Pro14 game on this channel for weeks.

It's actually 12 days since they showed a match

Live ?

Dragons Ospreys was live on S4c

by marty2086 Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:02 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Also, there was supposed to be a live game on every weekend on S4C, there has not been a Pro14 game on this channel for weeks.

It's actually 12 days since they showed a match

Live ?

Dragons Ospreys was live on S4c

FYI

Press release on the S4c deal

S4C Coverage per season until 2021:
– 17 Live games including two Christmas derbies
– 4 Derby games shown on delay
– Guinness PRO14 Final Series: Delayed coverage if Welsh region involved
– Guinness PRO14 Final: Live coverage if Welsh region involved

by Guest Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:36 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Also, there was supposed to be a live game on every weekend on S4C, there has not been a Pro14 game on this channel for weeks.

It's actually 12 days since they showed a match

Live ?

Dragons Ospreys was live on S4c

This is correct - I recorded it.

by Stone Motif Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:06 pm

The Oracle wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Also, there was supposed to be a live game on every weekend on S4C, there has not been a Pro14 game on this channel for weeks.

It's actually 12 days since they showed a match

Live ?

Dragons Ospreys was live on S4c

This is correct - I recorded it.

by **RiscaGame** Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:13 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:There was a small drop of just over 1000 over the 4 matches.
Statistically meaningless due to different dates, times and who players who where.
Need to look at the season as whole to draw any meaningful conclusions

In itself this proves nothing

Please don’t bring facts into this.

by Brendan Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:48 pm

In other Welsh attendance news Judgement Day this season will be even bigger than last year. The hunger for Pro14 has never been bigger in Wales it seems.

Dragons just got there biggest attendance in years but some just aren't happy. Seems it won't be long before those valley teams are getting 10k for those Prem derbies.

by **RiscaGame** Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:18 am

Well, I’ll wait until the confirmed figure, before I hit AD with that. But seeing as he is the biggest Judgement Day fan ever, should it sell better than it has previously, I would expect him to apologise for his posts on this thread. If he provided some evidence of huge disinterest towards the regions, I would happily debate with him. Unfortunately he would rather throw in lines such as bubbles, people I speak to and some strange obsession with the semi pro Welsh league gaining more popularity than the pro teams.

It’s particularly strange to mention Scrum v’s coverage, when they have probably done more to mess around the masses that want to watch the Welsh Prem this season, than Premier Sports have the Welsh pro teams. That’s why I’m not sure any of it is entirely a genuine discussion worth having.

by maestegmafia Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:41 am

RiscaGame wrote:Well, I’ll wait until the confirmed figure, before I hit AD with that. But seeing as he is the biggest Judgement Day fan ever, should it sell better than it has previously, I would expect him to apologise for his posts on this thread. If he provided some evidence of huge disinterest towards the regions, I would happily debate with him. Unfortunately he would rather throw in lines such as bubbles, people I speak to and some strange obsession with the semi pro Welsh league gaining more popularity than the pro teams.

It’s particularly strange to mention Scrum v’s coverage, when they have probably done more to mess around the masses that want to watch the Welsh Prem this season, than Premier Sports have the Welsh pro teams. That’s why I’m not sure any of it is entirely a genuine discussion worth having.

Christmas fell on a time where a number of profile players were injured that may have seen a few people drop out, but I felt that this season the crowds have been good.

Just need to stop ospreys backline from kicking possession away so much and it might not be a bad season

by Stone Motif Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:04 pm

https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2019/01/13/the-maths-of-pro-rugby-wales-is-skint/

Where's the like button

by carpet baboon Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:39 pm

Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2019/01/13/the-maths-of-pro-rugby-wales-is-skint/

Where's the like button

Do you really think the PRL/RFU would have any interest?

by geoff999rugby Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:32 pm

Is that the same PhilBB who post hear?
If so can be ignored as he has been 100% wrong re Irish finances in the past

by Stone Motif Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:47 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Is that the same PhilBB who post hear?
If so can be ignored as he has been 100% wrong re Irish finances in the past

No he hasn't, but that's completely irrelevant to the link anyway.

by Stone Motif Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:48 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2019/01/13/the-maths-of-pro-rugby-wales-is-skint/

Where's the like button

Do you really think the PRL/RFU would have any interest?

Probably not but the choice is either stay in the PrO'14 and go to two or at least try

by carpet baboon Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:32 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2019/01/13/the-maths-of-pro-rugby-wales-is-skint/

Where's the like button

Do you really think the PRL/RFU would have any interest?

Probably not but the choice is either stay in the PrO'14 and go to two or at least try

Why didn't the WRU not just put there 4 top teams into the celtic league at the start? (An abridged version if possible)

And I can't see any scenario where the PRL/RFU would expand there top league to let the 4 Welsh teams in, would the region's/WRU accept a deal where by they entered into the championship first?

I just can't see any benefit for the PRL/RFU.

And on a final note on the author of that article, although he does highlight some some interesting points ( not just in that article but in general) his credibility takes a huge hit with his almost religious fervour to blame the IRFU (as shown with his constant Pr'o 14 and blazer's comments) to be taken too seriously, as he often comes across as having a mahoosive chip on his shoulder

by Stone Motif Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:34 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2019/01/13/the-maths-of-pro-rugby-wales-is-skint/

Where's the like button

Do you really think the PRL/RFU would have any interest?

Probably not but the choice is either stay in the PrO'14 and go to two or at least try

Why didn't the WRU not just put there 4 top teams into the celtic league at the start? (An abridged version if possible)

And I can't see any scenario where the PRL/RFU would expand there top league to let the 4 Welsh teams in, would the region's/WRU accept a deal where by they entered into the championship first?

I just can't see any benefit for the PRL/RFU.

And on a final note on the author of that article, although he does highlight some some interesting points ( not just in that article but in general) his credibility takes a huge hit with his almost religious fervour to blame the IRFU (as shown with his constant Pr'o 14 and blazer's comments) to be taken too seriously, as he often comes across as having a mahoosive chip on his shoulder

What difference would that make? They'd still be in the PrO'14 and not making enough money to be competitive.

I'd be happier in the championship, and hope, if we were offered the nineties deal again.

And on a final note, Phil has been only too complementary about how the Irish fund their teams to the betterment of Irish rugby as a whole. He has just pointed out it makes a mockery of fair competition, as he has also done with the Dragons being owned by the WRU, or the proposed 3+1 model being discussed here in Wales now. He might say it in a high-falutin', I'm right about everything, assumptive, me me me me me way, but then I think he's from Cardiff. And he's right on the points above, no matter how much certain people's own shoulder chips prevent them from looking at the message not the poster.

by geoff999rugby Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:53 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Is that the same PhilBB who post hear?
If so can be ignored as he has been 100% wrong re Irish finances in the past

No he hasn't, but that's completely irrelevant to the link anyway.

Actually no it isn't.
If his tracked record is flawed then the relevance of later observation should be taken with some scepticism

by Stone Motif Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:58 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Is that the same PhilBB who post hear?
If so can be ignored as he has been 100% wrong re Irish finances in the past

No he hasn't, but that's completely irrelevant to the link anyway.

Actually no it isn't.
If his tracked record is flawed then the relevance of later observation should be taken with some scepticism

So because you can't spell 'here', I should just assume you're an idiot? Righto.

by Pot Hale Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:29 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Is that the same PhilBB who post hear?
If so can be ignored as he has been 100% wrong re Irish finances in the past

No he hasn't, but that's completely irrelevant to the link anyway.

Actually no it isn't.
If his tracked record is flawed then the relevance of later observation should be taken with some scepticism
So because you can't spell 'here', I should just assume you're an idiot? Righto.

In fairness, Stone, Phil BB’s assertions about finances for both WRU and IRFU have been somewhat skewy in the past. And he’s used the same assertions in other fora previously including his blog that you’ve linked above. Saying that he is complimentary about IRFU finding is somewhat disingenuous given his oft-repeated use of phrases like Pro’14, and assumptions of Irish bias, incompetence, etc. I notice you also like to use Pro’14 repeatedly like some permanent whinge - or is it a badge of honour amongst a select number of Welsh posting fans?

by marty2086 Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:36 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
And on a final note, Phil has been only too complementary about how the Irish fund their teams to the betterment of Irish rugby as a whole. He has just pointed out it makes a mockery of fair competition, as he has also done with the Dragons being owned by the WRU, or the proposed 3+1 model being discussed here in Wales now. He might say it in a high-falutin', I'm right about everything, assumptive, me me me me me way, but then I think he's from Cardiff. And he's right on the points above, no matter how much certain people's own shoulder chips prevent them from looking at the message not the poster.

How exactly does it make a mockery of fair competition?

by Irish Londoner Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:40 am

Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2019/01/13/the-maths-of-pro-rugby-wales-is-skint/

Where's the like button

Usual delusion from Wales. If there ever was a time when there could have been a combined league with the English clubs it's long gone.
I can see that there might be a perceived benefit to the Welsh clubs but the problem is that there is no perceived benefit or advantage to the English clubs. By Phil's own admission the Welsh have no money (and I'd be very surprised if a glut of rugby loving Welsh millionaires suddenly come out the woodwork).
The PRL are looking to ringfence the league not expand it and given the likely backlash from the Championship clubs if they try it, try adding the idea that not only are we freezing English clubs out we are letting Welsh clubs in, it would be a hugely controversial idea for English rugby to swallow.
I also assume that playing in the English league means that the Welsh clubs qualification for Europe would be via the "English" allocation to the Premiership so no Champions Cup rugby in Wales then.
If someone can show the advantages to English club rugby I'd like to see them.

by Brendan Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:13 pm

Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2019/01/13/the-maths-of-pro-rugby-wales-is-skint/

Where's the like button

Philbb raises some valid points but not in the way he thinks

WRU Finances £85m
SRU Finances £57m
WRU has an extra £28m while the SRU view they have £5m they can invest in another team each year.

Attendances17/18 (includes playoffs)
Scarlets 9k
Ospreys 7k
Blues 11.4k (JD)
Dragons 10.3k (JD)
Glasgow 7.6k
Edinburgh 7.6k (Club final)
The Regions get higher attendances than the Districts

Private Investors only is in Wales.

I think the problem with the Regions is poor synergy between the Regions and Unions. Also the WRU should fund the Regions based on Criteria they set out. Wales has the best potential

by Guest Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:26 pm

I thought the figures (WRU £85m, SRU £57m) were revenue and not profit or surplus? Not sure it takes into account outgoings, which may be higher for the WRU than SRU?

by Stone Motif Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:25 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Is that the same PhilBB who post hear?
If so can be ignored as he has been 100% wrong re Irish finances in the past

No he hasn't, but that's completely irrelevant to the link anyway.

Actually no it isn't.
If his tracked record is flawed then the relevance of later observation should be taken with some scepticism
So because you can't spell 'here', I should just assume you're an idiot? Righto.

In fairness, Stone, Phil BB’s assertions about finances for both WRU and IRFU have been somewhat skewy in the past. And he’s used the same assertions in other fora previously including his blog that you’ve linked above. Saying that he is complimentary about IRFU finding is somewhat disingenuous given his oft-repeated use of phrases like Pro’14, and assumptions of Irish bias, incompetence, etc. I notice you also like to use Pro’14 repeatedly like some permanent whinge - or is it a badge of honour amongst a select number of Welsh posting fans?

Must be the autO'correct?

by Stone Motif Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:26 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
And on a final note, Phil has been only too complementary about how the Irish fund their teams to the betterment of Irish rugby as a whole. He has just pointed out it makes a mockery of fair competition, as he has also done with the Dragons being owned by the WRU, or the proposed 3+1 model being discussed here in Wales now. He might say it in a high-falutin', I'm right about everything, assumptive, me me me me me way, but then I think he's from Cardiff. And he's right on the points above, no matter how much certain people's own shoulder chips prevent them from looking at the message not the poster.

How exactly does it make a mockery of fair competition?

How does it not?

by marty2086 Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:28 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
And on a final note, Phil has been only too complementary about how the Irish fund their teams to the betterment of Irish rugby as a whole. He has just pointed out it makes a mockery of fair competition, as he has also done with the Dragons being owned by the WRU, or the proposed 3+1 model being discussed here in Wales now. He might say it in a high-falutin', I'm right about everything, assumptive, me me me me me way, but then I think he's from Cardiff. And he's right on the points above, no matter how much certain people's own shoulder chips prevent them from looking at the message not the poster.

How exactly does it make a mockery of fair competition?

How does it not?

Well argued Rolling Eyes

Should we take it you don't actually know and can't explain hence that post?

by **LondonTiger** Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:30 pm

Owner of Ealing Trailfinders quoted as saying they would be interested in joining the Pro14 expansion.

by Brendan Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:43 pm

The Oracle wrote: I thought the figures (WRU £85m, SRU £57m) were revenue and not profit or surplus? Not sure it takes into account outgoings, which may be higher for the WRU than SRU?

I'm not saying that the WRU have tons of money just the assertion that they need to go to the SRU model of two clubs is total rubbish. Giving all the Regions the same amount of money isn't ideal either as it doesn't reward/punish what teams are doing.

Wales has the fan numbers to support 4 teams and the Union money to fund them. Hard choices may need to be made to reduce spending in other areas to fund them fully but that is what the board is paid to do.

The assertion that Exeter cost £20m to run so the Welsh Regions should aswell is rubbish. I don't think any Pro14 teams cost near that to run. I'm not sure how the management of the WRU and the Regions are chosen but they don't seem to get the bang for their buck. The SRU was worse and near bankruptcy (if possible) before they turned things around.

by **BigGee** Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:45 pm

That came from Wales Online, not always the most reliable of sources!

by Brendan Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:48 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Owner of Ealing Trailfinders quoted as saying they would be interested in joining the Pro14 expansion.

I have always thought that talking to the RU about getting a northern region put together would be smart as it would allow the RU to develop Yorkshire into a Region

by Stone Motif Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:58 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2019/01/13/the-maths-of-pro-rugby-wales-is-skint/

Where's the like button

Usual delusion from Wales. If there ever was a time when there could have been a combined league with the English clubs it's long gone.
I can see that there might be a perceived benefit to the Welsh clubs but the problem is that there is no perceived benefit or advantage to the English clubs. By Phil's own admission the Welsh have no money (and I'd be very surprised if a glut of rugby loving Welsh millionaires suddenly come out the woodwork).
The PRL are looking to ringfence the league not expand it and given the likely backlash from the Championship clubs if they try it, try adding the idea that not only are we freezing English clubs out we are letting Welsh clubs in, it would be a hugely controversial idea for English rugby to swallow.
I also assume that playing in the English league means that the Welsh clubs qualification for Europe would be via the "English" allocation to the Premiership so no Champions Cup rugby in Wales then.
If someone can show the advantages to English club rugby I'd like to see them.

Usual failure to comprehend from Ireland. Phil is pointing out that there are two choices based on the finances, either seek to enter the teams into a more profitable league in order to sustain them, or Martin Anayi needs to find another two far flung corners of the globe to invite into the jambO'ree to replace Newport and Swansea.

by marty2086 Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:05 pm

Brendan wrote:
The assertion that Exeter cost £20m to run so the Welsh Regions should aswell is rubbish. I don't think any Pro14 teams cost near that to run. I'm not sure how the management of the WRU and the Regions are chosen but they don't seem to get the bang for their buck. The SRU was worse and near bankruptcy (if possible) before they turned things around.

Ulster for 2017/18 cost £10.1m
Scarlets for 2016/17 cost £11m
Ospreys for 2016/17 cost £9.7m
Cardiff Blues for 2016/17 cost £9.8m
SRU costs for the whole professional game were £28.9m

by marty2086 Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:06 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2019/01/13/the-maths-of-pro-rugby-wales-is-skint/

Where's the like button

Usual delusion from Wales. If there ever was a time when there could have been a combined league with the English clubs it's long gone.
I can see that there might be a perceived benefit to the Welsh clubs but the problem is that there is no perceived benefit or advantage to the English clubs. By Phil's own admission the Welsh have no money (and I'd be very surprised if a glut of rugby loving Welsh millionaires suddenly come out the woodwork).
The PRL are looking to ringfence the league not expand it and given the likely backlash from the Championship clubs if they try it, try adding the idea that not only are we freezing English clubs out we are letting Welsh clubs in, it would be a hugely controversial idea for English rugby to swallow.
I also assume that playing in the English league means that the Welsh clubs qualification for Europe would be via the "English" allocation to the Premiership so no Champions Cup rugby in Wales then.
If someone can show the advantages to English club rugby I'd like to see them.

Usual failure to comprehend from Ireland. Phil is pointing out that there are two choices based on the finances, either seek to enter the teams into a more profitable league in order to sustain them, or Martin Anayi needs to find another two far flung corners of the globe to invite into the jambO'ree to replace Newport and Swansea.

Except they aren't the only options available

by marty2086 Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:09 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
And on a final note, Phil has been only too complementary about how the Irish fund their teams to the betterment of Irish rugby as a whole. He has just pointed out it makes a mockery of fair competition, as he has also done with the Dragons being owned by the WRU, or the proposed 3+1 model being discussed here in Wales now. He might say it in a high-falutin', I'm right about everything, assumptive, me me me me me way, but then I think he's from Cardiff. And he's right on the points above, no matter how much certain people's own shoulder chips prevent them from looking at the message not the poster.

How exactly does it make a mockery of fair competition?

How does it not?

Well argued
Should we take it you don't actually know and can't explain hence that post?

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