The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

by Pot Hale Thu 30 Aug - 19:16

First topic message reminder :

South African media reports emerging around comments made at PRO14 launch by SA Rugby president Mark Alexander that South African players will be better off playing in the northern hemisphere.

Alexander hinted South African rugby could be heading north on a more permanent basis in the near future.

The Cheetahs and Kings joined the Pro14 last year and there is a strong possibility that two more local teams will be included in the competition next season.

‘It’s a long-term investment. We have options now and in future. At some point in time, in future, if we don’t want to stay in the south [in Super Rugby], we can move north,’ said Alexander.

He added that the involvement of local players and coaches in Europe is beneficial for South African rugby.

‘The Pro14 is a good competition for the players and coaches who’re playing against tier-one nations each weekend. When we become a full Pro14 member next season, we’ll be the only nation who plays in the north and the south, and the major benefit of playing in the northern hemisphere is the players are better off.

‘With the structure of the Pro14 competition the way it is, it’s easier for travelling, with distances between places less than in the south, and the time zones are also better. When you consider player welfare and what’s best for them, then the north is better.’

The rumors are that it will be the Griquas and Pumas who will be proposed by SARU next season as their two new teams. How well that will be received by the other participating unions remains to be seen given the poor quality of the Kings thus far. SARU plans to cut the number of professional players in their system from approx 900 to 400 odd using a draft system and to spread the talent across the 8 professional teams.

by Guest Wed 16 Jan - 23:50

RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:rugby is the national sport in Wales.

No it's not.

In Wales:

More people play football than rugby each week.
More people watch football than rugby on tv each week.
More people watch football than rugby live each week.

National sport has absolutely nothing to do with player numbers.

Agreed. It's a number of factors. Like my post alludes to.

Well, the national sport is rugby. It is not football, which your post alludes to.

The National sport of Wales is football.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_sport

by RugbyFan100 Wed 16 Jan - 23:59

The Oracle wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:rugby is the national sport in Wales.

No it's not.

In Wales:

More people play football than rugby each week.
More people watch football than rugby on tv each week.
More people watch football than rugby live each week.

National sport has absolutely nothing to do with player numbers.

Agreed. It's a number of factors. Like my post alludes to.

Well, the national sport is rugby. It is not football, which your post alludes to.

The National sport of Wales is football.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_sport

OK. We won't go anywhere with this.

Can I say "the most popular sport in Wales is football" ?

Or is that wrong too?

by PhilBB Thu 17 Jan - 0:36

I went through this nonsense on twitter with some Irish fella recently.

He had to conceded that, by his own stats, rugby is popular with more people in Ireland than it is in Wales which is unsurprising when you consider Ireland is twice the size of Wales.

by RugbyFan100 Thu 17 Jan - 0:48

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's not wrong Phil. Everyone can see your replies so it's pointless lying. You also don't have to answer his question. I'm simply saying no has yet addressed it properly.

Worth noting at this point that nobody has addressed PhilBB's point of multiple ownership in competitions like ECC - and why it is seemingly ok for some teams to be owned by a single entity - yet others are blocked from doing so.

Not one opinion offered up on that anomaly. Unless I missed it.

by SecretFly Thu 17 Jan - 0:51

PhilBB wrote:I went through this nonsense on twitter with some Irish fella recently.

He had to conceded that, by his own stats, rugby is popular with more people in Ireland than it is in Wales which is unsurprising when you consider Ireland is twice the size of Wales.

Correct. I'd assume Rugby is popular with more people in Ireland than it is in Wales.

Now other supposed truths.

Football IS I assume more popular in Wales in real terms (following [and participation?]) than rugby.
Gaelic Football/Hurling/Soccer is more popular in Ireland in real terms (following and participation) than rugby.

I suppose people could then try to do a percentage of population number on rugby.

But why? It's all just endless circling. Ireland isn't a major factor in the running of or participation in rugby over in Wales. If this thread is often about the presumed shortcomings of rugby in Wales then what is the purpose of determining how many more people in Ireland follow rugby? The solution to everything 'rugby' in Wales lies in Wales.

by Guest Thu 17 Jan - 0:52

RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:rugby is the national sport in Wales.

No it's not.

In Wales:

More people play football than rugby each week.
More people watch football than rugby on tv each week.
More people watch football than rugby live each week.

National sport has absolutely nothing to do with player numbers.

Agreed. It's a number of factors. Like my post alludes to.

Well, the national sport is rugby. It is not football, which your post alludes to.

The National sport of Wales is football.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_sport

OK. We won't go anywhere with this.

Can I say "the most popular sport in Wales is football" ?

Or is that wrong too?

No that's factually correct. I believe soccer is bigger than rugby in NZ too, playing numbers-wise. But rugby is still their national sport. Cricket - national sport of England Erm

Football would be the national sport of pretty much everywhere if you just went by numbers. National sport is more to do with tradition, culture, etc. and does not vary from year to year due to fluctuations in playing numbers.

But anyway, completely off topic (but perhaps more interesting!).

by RugbyFan100 Thu 17 Jan - 0:54

The Oracle wrote:
Football would be the national sport of pretty much everywhere if you just went by numbers. National sport is more to do with tradition, culture, etc. and does not vary from year to year due to fluctuations in playing numbers.

.

What's the national sport of Spain?

by marty2086 Thu 17 Jan - 1:00

RugbyFan100 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:It's not wrong Phil. Everyone can see your replies so it's pointless lying. You also don't have to answer his question. I'm simply saying no has yet addressed it properly.

Worth noting at this point that nobody has addressed PhilBB's point of multiple ownership in competitions like ECC - and why it is seemingly ok for some teams to be owned by a single entity - yet others are blocked from doing so.

Not one opinion offered up on that anomaly. Unless I missed it.

A simple read of the rules would answer that, Im taking it he meant due to the decision around Hans Wild which the EPCR have issued a statement on clarifying it all

by No 7&1/2 Thu 17 Jan - 1:02

Don't know rugbyfan. Haven't read back through every post. You're still not having stab at answering Marty's question then?

by RugbyFan100 Thu 17 Jan - 1:05

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't know rugbyfan. Haven't read back through every post. You're still not having stab at answering Marty's question then?

What question? I don't tend to pay any attention to Marty as he is a liar.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 17 Jan - 1:09

Page back. Regarding structure and money basically.i assume.youll stop paying attention to Phil as he's been lying as well?

by PhilBB Thu 17 Jan - 1:13

SecretFly wrote:
PhilBB wrote:I went through this nonsense on twitter with some Irish fella recently.

He had to conceded that, by his own stats, rugby is popular with more people in Ireland than it is in Wales which is unsurprising when you consider Ireland is twice the size of Wales.

Correct. I'd assume Rugby is popular with more people in Ireland than it is in Wales.

Now other supposed truths.

Football IS I assume more popular in Wales in real terms (following [and participation?]) than rugby.
Gaelic Football/Hurling/Soccer is more popular in Ireland in real terms (following and participation) than rugby.

I suppose people could then try to do a percentage of population number on rugby.

But why? It's all just endless circling. Ireland isn't a major factor in the running of or participation in rugby over in Wales. If this thread is often about the presumed shortcomings of rugby in Wales then what is the purpose of determining how many more people in Ireland follow rugby? The solution to everything 'rugby' in Wales lies in Wales.

Spot on.

by PhilBB Thu 17 Jan - 1:13

No 7&1/2 wrote:Page back. Regarding structure and money basically.i assume.youll stop paying attention to Phil as he's been lying as well?

Sorry, you're accusing me of lying?

How so? Explain.

by RugbyFan100 Thu 17 Jan - 1:14

No 7&1/2 wrote:Page back. Regarding structure and money basically.i assume.youll stop paying attention to Phil as he's been lying as well?

I can't see what Phil has been lying about.

If you'd like to ask me a question about rugby then please feel free to do so.

by PhilBB Thu 17 Jan - 1:14

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:It's not wrong Phil. Everyone can see your replies so it's pointless lying. You also don't have to answer his question. I'm simply saying no has yet addressed it properly.

Worth noting at this point that nobody has addressed PhilBB's point of multiple ownership in competitions like ECC - and why it is seemingly ok for some teams to be owned by a single entity - yet others are blocked from doing so.

Not one opinion offered up on that anomaly. Unless I missed it.

A simple read of the rules would answer that, Im taking it he meant due to the decision around Hans Wild which the EPCR have issued a statement on clarifying it all

The rules are bent. We all know this.

The rules allow the anomaly. And that's why it is crooked.

by marty2086 Thu 17 Jan - 1:17

RugbyFan100 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't know rugbyfan. Haven't read back through every post. You're still not having stab at answering Marty's question then?

What question? I don't tend to pay any attention to Marty as he is a liar.

Really? When did I lie?

by **RDW** Thu 17 Jan - 1:26

Folks,

We have been spammed with reports for this thread all day, and almost all of them are for petty jibes, immature name calling or just not debating points in a civilised manner. This is not the first time this has happened A) with the people involved and B) when discussing this subject.

Not everyone is to blame here but a large number of people are. I can either lock yet another thread on this, or just ban everyone that's contributed to its downfall. I'd prefer a 3rd option - you discuss and debate this like the adults you (I'm assuming) are.

by Guest Thu 17 Jan - 1:32

RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
Football would be the national sport of pretty much everywhere if you just went by numbers. National sport is more to do with tradition, culture, etc. and does not vary from year to year due to fluctuations in playing numbers.

.

What's the national sport of Spain?

No idea. Wiki suggests the de facto national sport in Spain is bullfighting. What's your point?

by SecretFly Thu 17 Jan - 1:33

Ban everyone of us. Let the babes have their way. Sanitise this place of boisterous lingo.

Humanity is f**ked! Cool

by PhilBB Thu 17 Jan - 1:34

The Oracle wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
Football would be the national sport of pretty much everywhere if you just went by numbers. National sport is more to do with tradition, culture, etc. and does not vary from year to year due to fluctuations in playing numbers.

.

What's the national sport of Spain?

No idea. Wiki suggests the de facto national sport in Spain is bullfighting. What's your point?

That the "national sport [as defined by Wikipedia]" has no direct correlation to its popularity, let alone making it the most popular.

by SecretFly Thu 17 Jan - 1:35

The Oracle wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
Football would be the national sport of pretty much everywhere if you just went by numbers. National sport is more to do with tradition, culture, etc. and does not vary from year to year due to fluctuations in playing numbers.

.

What's the national sport of Spain?

No idea. Wiki suggests the de facto national sport in Spain is bullfighting. What's your point?

Oh I get that one! I got that! God, I'm bright today! Cool

by SecretFly Thu 17 Jan - 1:36

PhilBB wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
Football would be the national sport of pretty much everywhere if you just went by numbers. National sport is more to do with tradition, culture, etc. and does not vary from year to year due to fluctuations in playing numbers.

.

What's the national sport of Spain?

No idea. Wiki suggests the de facto national sport in Spain is bullfighting. What's your point?

That the "national sport [as defined by Wikipedia]" has no direct correlation to its popularity, let alone making it the most popular.

But Oracle didn't say all of that. He just said the national sport is Rugby.

by PhilBB Thu 17 Jan - 1:40

SecretFly wrote:

But Oracle didn't say all of that. He just said the national sport is Rugby.

Well spotted.

For our next question, see if you can enlighten us on the context that 71/2 used it in.

by SecretFly Thu 17 Jan - 1:44

PhilBB wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

But Oracle didn't say all of that. He just said the national sport is Rugby.

Well spotted.

For our next question, see if you can enlighten us on the context that 71/2 used it in.

71/2 isn't Oracle. I won't turn Oracle's statement into 71/2 argument.

Rugby IS the national sport of Wales. You can debate why that should be so given the arguments around popularity - but I assume that might get nasty quickly enough as 'National' emblems and notions usually have a lot to do with sense of self, sense of history, sense of cultural identity...ancient things.

by Guest Thu 17 Jan - 1:46

PhilBB wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
Football would be the national sport of pretty much everywhere if you just went by numbers. National sport is more to do with tradition, culture, etc. and does not vary from year to year due to fluctuations in playing numbers.

.

What's the national sport of Spain?

No idea. Wiki suggests the de facto national sport in Spain is bullfighting. What's your point?

That the "national sport [as defined by Wikipedia]" has no direct correlation to its popularity, let alone making it the most popular.

So you are the same poster as RugbyFan100! I was quoting and responding to him, not you. What was RugbyFan100's point?

In terms of your post, yes I'm been saying that all along. Football is not Wales' national sport just because it is played the most.

by SecretFly Thu 17 Jan - 1:49

The Oracle wrote:

In terms of your post, yes I'm been saying that all along. Football is not Wales' national sport just because it is played the most.

Is this a game of chess? Has someone been checkmated?

by RugbyFan100 Thu 17 Jan - 1:50

The Oracle wrote:

So you are the same poster as RugbyFan100! I was quoting and responding to him, not you. What was RugbyFan100's point?

For Goodness sake, can you stop with that.

The point is - the whole term "national sport" (and thus trying to prove points about it) is completely arbitrary / subjective and has no bearing on whether more or less people should be or could be watching or playing a particular sport.

by SecretFly Thu 17 Jan - 1:50

Oops.... you messed with my quote Oracle by slyly adding more....

by No 7&1/2 Thu 17 Jan - 1:58

Jees Louise. 1 who on earth is complaining about anything in this thread it's completely out. 2 fine national sport is probably completely misleading in this as I for one didn't know that cricket was our national sport! Cricket vs football on sky in England is potential argument for Wales with rugby on non free to air tv. Ie is it engrained in the people in the street enough to actually not matter that full live games aren't as frequent. Or will people stop playing and watching as they're not that interested e.g. cricket in England.

by PhilBB Thu 17 Jan - 2:15

The Oracle wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
Football would be the national sport of pretty much everywhere if you just went by numbers. National sport is more to do with tradition, culture, etc. and does not vary from year to year due to fluctuations in playing numbers.

.

What's the national sport of Spain?

No idea. Wiki suggests the de facto national sport in Spain is bullfighting. What's your point?

That the "national sport [as defined by Wikipedia]" has no direct correlation to its popularity, let alone making it the most popular.

So you are the same poster as RugbyFan100! I was quoting and responding to him, not you. What was RugbyFan100's point?

In terms of your post, yes I'm been saying that all along. Football is not Wales' national sport just because it is played the most.

FFS. His twitter handle is @nusmallclone

The measurement of a 'National Sport' isn't absolute and, thankfully, isn't decided by Wikipedia.

by Guest Thu 17 Jan - 2:37

RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:

So you are the same poster as RugbyFan100! I was quoting and responding to him, not you. What was RugbyFan100's point?

For Goodness sake, can you stop with that.

The point is - the whole term "national sport" (and thus trying to prove points about it) is completely arbitrary / subjective and has no bearing on whether more or less people should be or could be watching or playing a particular sport.

It's not entirely subjective. A person in the street can't just decide what the national sport is! You and I can't both decide on different sports for Wales. Some national sports are actually established by law.

On your point about whether it has a bearing, I never said it did. I was just answering your point where you said the national sport of Wales is football, which it it not!

by LordDowlais Thu 17 Jan - 3:35

The Oracle wrote:It's not entirely subjective. A person in the street can't just decide what the national sport is! You and I can't both decide on different sports for Wales. Some national sports are actually established by law.

Rugby Union is recognised in Westminster as Wales's national sport, thats why the 6N home games are protected and will always be on free to air tv.

by marty2086 Thu 17 Jan - 4:03

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:It's not entirely subjective. A person in the street can't just decide what the national sport is! You and I can't both decide on different sports for Wales. Some national sports are actually established by law.

Rugby Union is recognised in Westminster as Wales's national sport, thats why the 6N home games are protected and will always be on free to air tv.

Only highlights etc have to be FTA and that's because of the tournament not the sports importance in Wales though BBCs rejected proposal aimed to protect in Wales

by Recwatcher16 Thu 17 Jan - 5:16

Thirty years ago kids in south Wales played and follwed rugby or cricket - north Wales might have been different, can't remember. Twenty years ago the WRU ballsed it up in the belief that elite, limited access for players and fans alike to professional rugby as the top tier was the future. The HC trophy was the goal and national success would follow.
We can all see it has panned out differently. The national team is still successful regardless of the next elite tier of the domestic game. The WRU having backed itself into a corner over this drought of non domestic trophies can only go in one direction and make elite teams even more elite - either officially or more informally behind closed union doors. Four down to two and it is amazing how many welsh fans think this the route to go. Even less access for as perceived by fans contrived teams that bear no relation to clubs. Credibility for the Pro12 will go even lower than it is now.

Irish success has been down to prioritization of Euro competitions for player time and paying top dollar for foreign coaches and effectively using two teams. Pat Lam saw this and didn't stick around.
I see in the English league a number of coaches Dai Young, Ackerman and Blackadder have said the salary cap means they can't compete with irish sides - what rubbish logic. There are only so many players with current test experience and across twelve teams that supply the commercial muscle to make competitions valid, so you can have the biggest wage bill in the world to employ a national squad and portray it as a club - but what would be the point in that for an English or French club side.......

If Wales want to compete successfully in Euro cups then formally or informally they need to put their best sixty players into two sides and call them clubs in the Pro12 and go through the hard task of qualifying for the top Euro comps. Resurrect the premiership rivalries and I think the fans would come back if that was portrayed as the top tier of the game in Wales. It doesn't matter if it is professional or not - Wales would have back it's 'national game'.
Never going to happen of course....

by carpet baboon Thu 17 Jan - 5:23

Errr pat lam turned up won the league then took a huge pay rise to go to Bristol, nothing to do with how the provinces are run.
Anyway how did cheating the salary cap work out for you guys? Lots of silverware won I assume?

by Recwatcher16 Thu 17 Jan - 5:25

Suggest you ask Pat Lam if he is only motivated by money......

by carpet baboon Thu 17 Jan - 5:28

No I'm guessing it was a new adventure for him, and fair play to him.
Im just amazed it took you this long to turn up and have a dig at the pro14 and the Irish in general, why do we upset you so much?

by Recwatcher16 Thu 17 Jan - 5:34

I have no idea why you think I am upset, I am merely making some observations that perhaps you don't like.

by carpet baboon Thu 17 Jan - 5:38

Well you are entitled to your opinion of course.
I just find your comments on the Irish fun

by LeinsterFan4life Thu 17 Jan - 6:30

RugbyFan100 wrote:
BamBam wrote:Why do the Welsh always want to piggy back on the back of English success?

Personally, I wouldn't say it's the "success" that we need to piggy back on to, it's more English rugby full stop. England is where the rugby rivalry in Wales is, it's what captures the imagination of fans, and drives home real passion both on the pitch and on the terraces. Flying to Port Elizabeth with a third string doesn't really compare. Leinster are quite possibly the best club team on the planet at the moment, but that doesn't mean the juices flow every time a Welsh regional side plays them. Especially when they don't even send their best players to play in places like Wales. The pro14 is a massively flawed league.

What you're seeing now too, is that some (not all) of the English sides are beginning to treat the Champions Cup in the same way as the French sides do. Watching Gloucester play Munster and Leicester play Scarlets, and to a lesser extent - Exeter - you can just tell they weren't as up for it as they are when they play Gallagher Premiership games. Deep down their coaches must be sick of busting a gut with their first teams over the Xmas period - then watching Munster and Leinster 2nds share the wind about versus Connacht and Ulster to kepe their players fresh for the CCup and test rugby. What is the point?

Far better to save it all up for the Gallagher Prem where it's a level playing field. Who can blame them. The game is too far gone now - Union and Private owned sides are poles apart in their rugby structure and fixture make up. The game is broken.

Yeah you can really see that with the massive crowds that turned up a the Parc Y Scarlets for their game against Leicester at the weekend or the huge crowd in the liberty stadium when the Ospreys hosted Worcester in what was basically a knockout match for the challenge cup... Oh wait.

by marty2086 Thu 17 Jan - 7:45

Recwatcher16 wrote:
Irish success has been down to prioritization of Euro competitions for player time and paying top dollar for foreign coaches and effectively using two teams. Pat Lam saw this and didn't stick around.

Well that's a blatant lie, Lam was willing to stay at Connacht only problem was his contract had a release clause in it. He asked for it to be removed to provide greater job security and it didn't happen so he went to Bristol

by **profitius** Thu 17 Jan - 9:39

RugbyFan100 wrote:
BamBam wrote:Why do the Welsh always want to piggy back on the back of English success?

Personally, I wouldn't say it's the "success" that we need to piggy back on to, it's more English rugby full stop. England is where the rugby rivalry in Wales is, it's what captures the imagination of fans, and drives home real passion both on the pitch and on the terraces. Flying to Port Elizabeth with a third string doesn't really compare. Leinster are quite possibly the best club team on the planet at the moment, but that doesn't mean the juices flow every time a Welsh regional side plays them. Especially when they don't even send their best players to play in places like Wales. The pro14 is a massively flawed league.

What you're seeing now too, is that some (not all) of the English sides are beginning to treat the Champions Cup in the same way as the French sides do. Watching Gloucester play Munster and Leicester play Scarlets, and to a lesser extent - Exeter - you can just tell they weren't as up for it as they are when they play Gallagher Premiership games. Deep down their coaches must be sick of busting a gut with their first teams over the Xmas period - then watching Munster and Leinster 2nds share the wind about versus Connacht and Ulster to kepe their players fresh for the CCup and test rugby. What is the point?

Far better to save it all up for the Gallagher Prem where it's a level playing field. Who can blame them. The game is too far gone now - Union and Private owned sides are poles apart in their rugby structure and fixture make up. The game is broken.

Jesus Christ this is like a bunch of alcoholics being pissed off at sober people.

People actually complaining that Irish players are looked after better. You couldn't make it up.

Btw the English don't want an Anglo Welsh league. They don't see any value in it and it would cost them more than they get out of it.

by Pot Hale Thu 17 Jan - 10:24

So, in summary, Phil thinks the Welsh sides are shoite because they are not sufficiently funded. A comparison with English clubs indicates that they need £12m to survive and they'll never get that.

So the choices - as Phil see it - are to cut the number of Welsh teams from four to two and that'll work - for a few years, maybe possibly. Or else "get on the blower" - London style - to PRL/RFU and persuade/beg them to allow the Welsh teams enter the Premiership or Championship (if that's what it takes) to have a game in Wales that will survive.

Makes sense to me. The Welsh teams add very little at this stage to the PRO14, and are only holding it back. Too much infighting, too little funding, inappropriate structures for a union-owned and run competition - they need to move on to somewhere else. It's what they've always wanted to do, and there is little point in trying to persuade them otherwise.

What's so difficult about that? If that's what the majority of Welsh club-owners, teams, coaches, players, and fans and union think, let them at it.

by PhilBB Thu 17 Jan - 19:53

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Yeah you can really see that with the massive crowds that turned up a the Parc Y Scarlets for their game against Leicester at the weekend or the huge crowd in the liberty stadium when the Ospreys hosted Worcester in what was basically a knockout match for the challenge cup... Oh wait.

Is this seriously the level of thinking? One off non-entity matches are picked at random to try to suggest a theme?

All done so from the other side of the water?

I mean, come on. You should be better than that.

by PhilBB Thu 17 Jan - 19:54

Pot Hale wrote:So, in summary, Phil thinks the Welsh sides are shoite because they are not sufficiently funded. A comparison with English clubs indicates that they need £12m to survive and they'll never get that.

So the choices - as Phil see it - are to cut the number of Welsh teams from four to two and that'll work - for a few years, maybe possibly. Or else "get on the blower" - London style - to PRL/RFU and persuade/beg them to allow the Welsh teams enter the Premiership or Championship (if that's what it takes) to have a game in Wales that will survive.

Makes sense to me. The Welsh teams add very little at this stage to the PRO14, and are only holding it back. Too much infighting, too little funding, inappropriate structures for a union-owned and run competition - they need to move on to somewhere else. It's what they've always wanted to do, and there is little point in trying to persuade them otherwise.

What's so difficult about that? If that's what the majority of Welsh club-owners, teams, coaches, players, and fans and union think, let them at it.

Sense, at last.

by Guest Thu 17 Jan - 19:55

Nice passive aggressive post, Pot!

by PhilBB Thu 17 Jan - 19:58

marty2086 wrote:
Recwatcher16 wrote:
Irish success has been down to prioritization of Euro competitions for player time and paying top dollar for foreign coaches and effectively using two teams. Pat Lam saw this and didn't stick around.

Well that's a blatant lie, Lam was willing to stay at Connacht only problem was his contract had a release clause in it. He asked for it to be removed to provide greater job security and it didn't happen so he went to Bristol

Willing to stay TO THE END OF HIS CONTRACT AT CONNACHT https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/pat-lam-i-wouldn-t-be-leaving-if-it-wasn-t-for-irfu-release-clause-1.3102947

by PhilBB Thu 17 Jan - 19:58

The Oracle wrote:Nice passive aggressive post, Pot!

It'll be great to leave the IRFU to Setanta Pt II.

by BamBam Thu 17 Jan - 19:59

Pot Hale wrote:So, in summary, Phil thinks the Welsh sides are shoite because they are not sufficiently funded. A comparison with English clubs indicates that they need £12m to survive and they'll never get that.

So the choices - as Phil see it - are to cut the number of Welsh teams from four to two and that'll work - for a few years, maybe possibly. Or else "get on the blower" - London style - to PRL/RFU and persuade/beg them to allow the Welsh teams enter the Premiership or Championship (if that's what it takes) to have a game in Wales that will survive.

Makes sense to me. The Welsh teams add very little at this stage to the PRO14, and are only holding it back. Too much infighting, too little funding, inappropriate structures for a union-owned and run competition - they need to move on to somewhere else. It's what they've always wanted to do, and there is little point in trying to persuade them otherwise.

What's so difficult about that? If that's what the majority of Welsh club-owners, teams, coaches, players, and fans and union think, let them at it.

We don't want them either

by RugbyFan100 Thu 17 Jan - 20:00

Pot Hale wrote:

What's so difficult about that? If that's what the majority of Welsh club-owners, teams, coaches, players, and fans and union think, let them at it.

I wish it were that easy. As usual, it's the Unions that would stop it.

The Unions. Who should have zero say in how domestic rugby is run.

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